Ever boycott a winery?

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Alan Rath
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#301 Post by Alan Rath » June 19th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 4:16 pm
The word kike was born on Ellis Island when there were Jewish migrants who were also illiterate (or could not use Latin alphabet letters). When asked to sign the entry-forms with the customary "X", the Jewish immigrants would refuse, because they associated an X with the cross of Christianity. Instead, they drew a circle as the signature on the entry-forms. The Yiddish word for "circle" is kikel (pronounced KY - kel), and for "little circle", kikeleh. Before long the immigration inspectors were calling anyone who signed with an 'O' instead of an 'X' a kikel or kikeleh or kikee or, finally and succinctly, kike."
Interesting. Just last week, as I was going through old papers from my mother, I came across a document from 1913, Philadelphia. It was the sworn affidavit of my great grandmother, certifying that her daughter (obviously my grandmother) had been born in a town in Russia in 1898. I guess it was for some naturalization papers, or something along those lines. Anyway, her name is there, with an "X", and written next to the X "her mark".
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#302 Post by Al Osterheld » June 19th, 2020, 6:27 pm

Curious, do you recall the town?

-Al

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#303 Post by Alan Rath » June 19th, 2020, 7:58 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Curious, do you recall the town?

-Al
One 1913 document says Baresovky. Another reads Beresofky, Ananevskwo-Uesda, Russia. I’m reasonably sure this part of the family came from what is now Ukraine. I have not found these on a map. It’s possible that, given the Jews were chased out of their towns in Russian pogroms, those places don’t even exist any more.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#304 Post by Al Osterheld » June 19th, 2020, 8:40 pm

Some years ago, I helped a few folks locate the part of Russia (or FSU) where their now passed parent or grandparent or an adopted child was born (inquiries were related to a website I maintained). One challenge for birthplaces of older folks was that ethnic villages often had two names, the one the inhabitants used and the one the government used. Many of the resources I used aren't currently available but I'll see if I can find something useful.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#305 Post by Alan Rath » June 19th, 2020, 8:59 pm

Thanks! Also Berezovka
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#306 Post by Al Osterheld » June 19th, 2020, 9:47 pm

So, Berezovka is a village about 90 km north of Odessa in the Ananyev district. Throw in what looks like a Polish spelling and that seems like a match. Berezivka in the current Ukrainian transliteration.

-Al

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#307 Post by Alan Rath » June 19th, 2020, 10:29 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 9:47 pm
So, Berezovka is a village about 90 km north of Odessa in the Ananyev district. Throw in what looks like a Polish spelling and that seems like a match. Berezivka in the current Ukrainian transliteration.

-Al
Good chance. I see a couple others as well now, but the Ananyev would seem to nail it down. I know my grandmother used to say she was from Odessa, probably because that would be more recognizable.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#308 Post by EricP » June 19th, 2020, 10:47 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 12:51 pm
Trump Winery.
That's the first one I thought of!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#309 Post by EricP » June 19th, 2020, 10:54 pm

Paul Miller wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 4:21 pm
Posting as Pics as it is very visual.

I'm glad to see the posts from Pax. I haven't had their wine before, but now I will seek it out. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#310 Post by R. Somerville » June 20th, 2020, 2:13 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 3:41 pm
I'm learning a lot about certain members here. Carry-on, folks. [popcorn.gif] [popcorn.gif] [popcorn.gif]
Same here and I've been away 6 years! pileon

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#311 Post by johngonzales » June 20th, 2020, 8:43 am

Max K wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 11:08 am
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 9:14 am
I find it odd, and terribly disappointing, to see it's the topic of fighting against racism that's drawing-out some arguments that could have equally been made before, but weren't. The logical inconsistency is clear. And the fact that it's this topic says a lot.
Brian, I think the reason is that everyone does not agree on the definition of racism, and there are some (many? or perhaps just very loud) progressive advocates seeking to significantly expand it in ways that some of us find at best incoherent, at worst racist themselves. This article illustrates some of what I'm referring to: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... ine-racism

References to BLM can be interpreted as anything from a call to address instances and/or patterns of injustice, to the endorsement of accusations that entire professions and ethic groups are inherently racist. Hence the varied reactions.
I don’t recognize you Max, but appreciate your recent discussions here. They’re intelligent, balanced, and done in a measured style.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#312 Post by Jeffrey Neal » June 20th, 2020, 11:23 am

I don’t do business with companies whose business practices I disagree with. That means I will never set foot in a Hobby Lobby, for example. They made discrimination a part of their business. I don’t consider it to be a boycott - just a business decision. If they change their ways I would change my opinion of them.

On the issue of BLM, I think condemning the entire movement because of a few people is absurd. Anyone who doesn’t recognize the racism built into our society is unwilling to open their eyes.

I know what discrimination feels like, having been subjected to overt homophobia for many years. I also know people who don’t object to me, but also don’t agree I should have been able to marry my husband. They claim they are not discriminating. One member of my family says “I’m not a racist!” And then yells “All lives matter!” while she blames black people for getting shot by the police. Oh - she and her ilk also say black guys should do anything the police say, but wearing a mask to protect others from Covid is infringing on her liberty.

I’m sick of everything being politicized

edited for politics

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#313 Post by Andrew Gold » June 20th, 2020, 11:35 am

Jeffrey Neal wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:23 am
I don’t do business with companies whose business practices I disagree with. That means I will never set foot in a Hobby Lobby, for example. They made discrimination a part of their business. I don’t consider it to be a boycott - just a business decision. If they change their ways I would change my opinion of them.

On the issue of BLM, I think condemning the entire movement because of a few people is absurd. Anyone who doesn’t recognize the racism built into our society is unwilling to open their eyes.

I know what discrimination feels like, having been subjected to overt homophobia for many years. I also know people who don’t object to me, but also don’t agree I should have been able to marry my husband. They claim they are not discriminating. One member of my family says “I’m not a racist!” And then yells “All lives matter!” while she blames black people for getting shot by the police. Oh - she and her ilk also say black guys should do anything the police say, but wearing a mask to protect others from Covid is infringing on her liberty.

I’m sick of everything being politicized
100%

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#314 Post by Markus S » June 20th, 2020, 12:10 pm

Marshall Manning wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 11:17 am
Frank Murray III wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 10:09 am
Yes, and no recognition that it could be offending. This Board of ours, I love it. I've met so many terrific people here. Yet, look at the Board, look at Page 1. How many names of women do you see posting? Count them. And, then look tomorrow, and next week. Same result you will see.

We need diversity here to help drive discussion, not just dudes talking wine, but both genders would be beneficial.
Frank, I don't think this is something particular to this board. I've been around internet wine forums for many years and they have always been primarily male. Maybe it's the way men talk about wine? But maybe it's just that men are more geeky about it than women....
I think this is because men talk and women do.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#315 Post by Anton D » June 20th, 2020, 12:21 pm

The only forums I am familiar with are wine and Hi Fi, so I might be thinking too broadly, but it seems geeking out in the minutia of a hobby is more of a guy thing.

My wife loves drinking wine and playing the Hi Fi, but doesn't give a shit about comparing the 1961 vs. 1966 vintages, or the advantages of digital vs. analog or tube vs. solid state. it's funny, she has a killer palate and a great ear, and seeks out wine tasting and music listening, only without the onanistic part that so many men use to approach these subjects.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#316 Post by Andy Steinman » June 20th, 2020, 12:52 pm

Andrew Gold wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:35 am
Jeffrey Neal wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:23 am
I don’t do business with companies whose business practices I disagree with. That means I will never set foot in a Hobby Lobby, for example. They made discrimination a part of their business. I don’t consider it to be a boycott - just a business decision. If they change their ways I would change my opinion of them.

On the issue of BLM, I think condemning the entire movement because of a few people is absurd. Anyone who doesn’t recognize the racism built into our society is unwilling to open their eyes.

I know what discrimination feels like, having been subjected to overt homophobia for many years. I also know people who don’t object to me, but also don’t agree I should have been able to marry my husband. They claim they are not discriminating. One member of my family says “I’m not a racist!” And then yells “All lives matter!” while she blames black people for getting shot by the police. Oh - she and her ilk also say black guys should do anything the police say, but wearing a mask to protect others from Covid is infringing on her liberty.

I’m sick of everything being politicized
100%
Absolutely!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#317 Post by johngonzales » June 20th, 2020, 1:21 pm

And now the thread should be moved to Politics. I don’t expect that, but it’s gone WAY beyond wine or the winery’s email. At the very least it should go to Asylum, off of the wine feed.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#318 Post by GregP » June 20th, 2020, 1:39 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 7:58 pm
Al Osterheld wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Curious, do you recall the town?

-Al
One 1913 document says Baresovky. Another reads Beresofky, Ananevskwo-Uesda, Russia. I’m reasonably sure this part of the family came from what is now Ukraine. I have not found these on a map. It’s possible that, given the Jews were chased out of their towns in Russian pogroms, those places don’t even exist any more.
I am a RUSSIAN Jew, never mind my birth place of L'vov. And so are you, and anyone else coming from those regions. RUSSIAN Jews, never "Ukrainian". Can't recall even one of us EVER calling ourselves and referring to us nothing but.

Hmmmm.... As someone born there, I can assure you, and pretty much anyone else in our historically challenged US Congress, that in 1913 there was no such entity as "Ukraine", nor even a word. First EVER use of the word was in 1914, as a proposal by the government, to the horror of those living there, for generations. LENIN created "Ukraine", by his royal decree, in 1918, assigning lands traditionally of Russian Empire, calling it "Ukrainian Republic", same as he did with many lands the Reds took in the South.

The word, ukraine, is actually a derivative of Russian word for okrainy, meaning "outskirts", PLURAL as it is and describing all sorts of lands including Belorussia, and for centuries describing the lands Russian Empire felt were not worthy of a "status" matching Russian Empire aspirations. The dreaded "Jewish line of settlement", which Jews in back then Russia were not allowed to leave to settle up North, was actually the "outskirts", OKRÄINY, accent on A. Thus, eventually, "Ukraina", accent on i, and singular, for a region. ALWAYS preceded by an "ON" (island, remote), and never as an "IN" (country). On an "island". Most of the intelligencia residing on those lands at the time, including NIKOLAI Gogol, Shevchenko and IVAN Franco, just a few names you most likely know, now somehow considered "ukrainian", abhored the idea that they must change their passports to read "ukrainian" rather than "russian", in Paragraph 5 of every passport, where everyone's ENTHNICITY, in a so called "all inclusive communist heaven", was recorded. (You know, communist way for the "ease of identification" when trying to get into a school or get a job.) They were all Russians, save for Franco, who was a Ruthian, a small enclave of ethnic Russians living in the Romanian/Hungarian little triangle near the Galician region (Poland). They still do, to this day, and what's not reported here is their declaration of separation from Kiev junta takeover 5 years ago. Mostly an autonomous region for the past 5 years (as their leaders told Kiev junta at the time, Do not come here, we have more weapons than people), with Hungarians now wanting it to re-join.

Read up on letters exchange between Peter the Great and Mazepa, back in 17th Century. Mazepa himself called the region "okrainy", with no aspirations to a "country" of any sort, just a part of Russian Empire (right prior to Swedes being decimated at Poltava, by a RUSSIAN ARMY at a RUSSIAN TOWN (Poltava), which was the the beginning of the eventual end of Swedish dominance in Europe. Moreover, show me ANY so called "ukrainian currency", prior to the fall of USSR in 1991, and bearing a mark of a so called "Ukraine". It was nothing but a farm land region then becoming a republic, created by Lenin, and nothing more. Even UN diplomats from Eastern Europe chided the UN when Kiev junta took over and reminded everyone that "Ukraine" is simply being used for political reasons these days with no historical proof of ANY sort pointing out it was ever a country. OR ETHNICITY of any sort, with most of the population being RUSSIAN. The only addition to that ethnicity was the 1939 divide of Poland with Stalin grabbing traditionally Polish (Galicia), Romanian, Hungarian and Slovakian lands (southwest of L'vov region). Ukranian language itself is but an olden Russian dialect of poorly educated "outskirts", slang really, with an influx of Polish (mostly) and some Hungarian/Romanian thrown in. There are no such people as "ukranian", doesn't matter who tries to brainwash us.

I was born in Lvov, mostly known to the rest of Europe as LEMBERG, for centuries, and still. Sounds Russian, right :-) You can't imagine just how many Poles, or Germans I talked to asking me where I was born. Lvov mostly draws blank stares, but when I mention LEMBERG, they all go, "Ah, of course!"

Krym, or as it is called Crimea in the West, are lands taken by a RUSSIAN QUEEN from Ottoman Empire. When the word "ukraine" didn't even exist. MASANDRA WINERY, who do you think founded it? Again, given to "Ukraine republic" (but never a country) by Khruschiov (accent on o), in 1957, once again, by his royal decree. A "gift", you know, like a box of candy. City of Odessa, who founded it? Nikolaev. I can go on and on an on... All Russian founded and built. I challenge anyone to point out any city on the map that was founded by so called "ukrainians".

What you, and everyone else, know as "Ukraine" is nothing but mostly historically Russian lands well known to historians as Novorossia (New Russia).

Teaching made up history doesn't negate the facts.

BTW, what is also not well known to most, being hidden as much as is possible, is the systemic extermination of Jews by these so called "ukranians", led by Bandera. When Germans stepped into Lvov in 1941, Stepan Bandera and Co. (not ethnically "ukranian", a German roots baptist/criminal, as are most of his followers, to this day, many now residing in West Sacramento!!!) exterminated nearly 93,000 Jews living there for centuries (Lvov synagogue was founded in 14th century, never touched by anyone, including Germans, until it "burned on its own accord, for reasons unknown" in 1961, by the "peaceful ukrainians"). Extermination and atrocities by Bandera and Co. in Lvov were so bad that even Germans were appalled and asked them to tone it down. By the end of the war, when Soviet Army freed the city, only 100 Jews remained, in hiding of course, out of 93,000.

Mass hangings of Bandera and Co., in Kiev, at the end of the war were not enough to cleanse the region, Lvov still celebrates their SS Galichina (Galicia) Division, all volunteers and one of 2 that fought on the Nazi side. Google "Lvov" and "SS Galichina", see what pops up. Then google "Lvov pogroms" and see how you like it. The other such SS division was Nachtigal. But SS Galichina still celebrates, ANNUALLY, with swastikas, full SS uniforms and regalia, and now have a museum. Just last month, they celebrated "75th Anniversary", again, openly. Junta we helped 5+ years ago in taking over. And still do.

Lvov's Jewish cemetary, there for centuries, has been raised and built upon in the past few years. Some few graves still stand, on my maternal side, those on paternal are now gone.

These are the people we support now. What's the saying, You just can't make this shit up.

Just thought you should know a bit more about your ancestry. RUSSIAN Jew ancestry. And never "ukrainian". Its an insult to all of us.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#319 Post by CJ Wiebe » June 20th, 2020, 1:48 pm

I purchased no Italian wines while Amanda Knox was in prison. While it made utterly no difference to anyone, I felt good about it.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#320 Post by Dave McIsaac » June 20th, 2020, 2:12 pm

johngonzales wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 8:43 am
Max K wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 11:08 am
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 9:14 am
I find it odd, and terribly disappointing, to see it's the topic of fighting against racism that's drawing-out some arguments that could have equally been made before, but weren't. The logical inconsistency is clear. And the fact that it's this topic says a lot.
Brian, I think the reason is that everyone does not agree on the definition of racism, and there are some (many? or perhaps just very loud) progressive advocates seeking to significantly expand it in ways that some of us find at best incoherent, at worst racist themselves. This article illustrates some of what I'm referring to: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... ine-racism

References to BLM can be interpreted as anything from a call to address instances and/or patterns of injustice, to the endorsement of accusations that entire professions and ethic groups are inherently racist. Hence the varied reactions.
I don’t recognize you Max, but appreciate your recent discussions here. They’re intelligent, balanced, and done in a measured style.
+1
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#321 Post by R. Somerville » June 20th, 2020, 2:14 pm

CJ Wiebe wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 1:48 pm
I purchased no Italian wines while Amanda Knox was in prison. While it made utterly no difference to anyone, I felt good about it.
[rofl.gif]

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#322 Post by Anton D » June 20th, 2020, 3:36 pm

Andy Steinman wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 12:52 pm
Andrew Gold wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:35 am
Jeffrey Neal wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:23 am
I don’t do business with companies whose business practices I disagree with. That means I will never set foot in a Hobby Lobby, for example. They made discrimination a part of their business. I don’t consider it to be a boycott - just a business decision. If they change their ways I would change my opinion of them.

On the issue of BLM, I think condemning the entire movement because of a few people is absurd. Anyone who doesn’t recognize the racism built into our society is unwilling to open their eyes.

I know what discrimination feels like, having been subjected to overt homophobia for many years. I also know people who don’t object to me, but also don’t agree I should have been able to marry my husband. They claim they are not discriminating. One member of my family says “I’m not a racist!” And then yells “All lives matter!” while she blames black people for getting shot by the police. Oh - she and her ilk also say black guys should do anything the police say, but wearing a mask to protect others from Covid is infringing on her liberty.

I’m sick of everything being politicized
100%
Absolutely!
I somehow missed Jeffrey’s post the first time, you killed it!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#323 Post by Alan Rath » June 20th, 2020, 4:06 pm

GregP wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Just thought you should know a bit more about your ancestry. RUSSIAN Jew ancestry. And never "ukrainian". Its an insult to all of us.
Greg, that's quite a history lesson! You did see I wrote Russia, and only described the town as being in what is today called Ukraine [cheers.gif]
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#324 Post by Mel Knox » June 20th, 2020, 5:02 pm

GregP,
For a while it seemed that in SF all the women who took your blood etc for a physical were Russian.
To one of them I said, My wife's family came here around 1900 from Russia. When I told her my wife s last name, she practically spit at me, she is not Russian...she is a Jew!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#325 Post by A.Gillette » June 20th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Charlie A wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 3:08 pm
A.Gillette wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 5:55 pm
Yes. I actively boycott Weingut Keller in the reinhessen because of the pricing.
Alex
I've boycotted Keller as well...
I was just kidding because of a separate thread. And regardless I don’t want to be associated with your comments about his wife. Not ok from as far as I’m concerned.
A
Alex

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#326 Post by Greg K » June 20th, 2020, 5:15 pm

GregP wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 7:58 pm
Al Osterheld wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Curious, do you recall the town?

-Al
One 1913 document says Baresovky. Another reads Beresofky, Ananevskwo-Uesda, Russia. I’m reasonably sure this part of the family came from what is now Ukraine. I have not found these on a map. It’s possible that, given the Jews were chased out of their towns in Russian pogroms, those places don’t even exist any more.
I am a RUSSIAN Jew, never mind my birth place of L'vov. And so are you, and anyone else coming from those regions. RUSSIAN Jews, never "Ukrainian". Can't recall even one of us EVER calling ourselves and referring to us nothing but.

Hmmmm.... As someone born there, I can assure you, and pretty much anyone else in our historically challenged US Congress, that in 1913 there was no such entity as "Ukraine", nor even a word. First EVER use of the word was in 1914, as a proposal by the government, to the horror of those living there, for generations. LENIN created "Ukraine", by his royal decree, in 1918, assigning lands traditionally of Russian Empire, calling it "Ukrainian Republic", same as he did with many lands the Reds took in the South.

The word, ukraine, is actually a derivative of Russian word for okrainy, meaning "outskirts", PLURAL as it is and describing all sorts of lands including Belorussia, and for centuries describing the lands Russian Empire felt were not worthy of a "status" matching Russian Empire aspirations. The dreaded "Jewish line of settlement", which Jews in back then Russia were not allowed to leave to settle up North, was actually the "outskirts", OKRÄINY, accent on A. Thus, eventually, "Ukraina", accent on i, and singular, for a region. ALWAYS preceded by an "ON" (island, remote), and never as an "IN" (country). On an "island". Most of the intelligencia residing on those lands at the time, including NIKOLAI Gogol, Shevchenko and IVAN Franco, just a few names you most likely know, now somehow considered "ukrainian", abhored the idea that they must change their passports to read "ukrainian" rather than "russian", in Paragraph 5 of every passport, where everyone's ENTHNICITY, in a so called "all inclusive communist heaven", was recorded. (You know, communist way for the "ease of identification" when trying to get into a school or get a job.) They were all Russians, save for Franco, who was a Ruthian, a small enclave of ethnic Russians living in the Romanian/Hungarian little triangle near the Galician region (Poland). They still do, to this day, and what's not reported here is their declaration of separation from Kiev junta takeover 5 years ago. Mostly an autonomous region for the past 5 years (as their leaders told Kiev junta at the time, Do not come here, we have more weapons than people), with Hungarians now wanting it to re-join.

Read up on letters exchange between Peter the Great and Mazepa, back in 17th Century. Mazepa himself called the region "okrainy", with no aspirations to a "country" of any sort, just a part of Russian Empire (right prior to Swedes being decimated at Poltava, by a RUSSIAN ARMY at a RUSSIAN TOWN (Poltava), which was the the beginning of the eventual end of Swedish dominance in Europe. Moreover, show me ANY so called "ukrainian currency", prior to the fall of USSR in 1991, and bearing a mark of a so called "Ukraine". It was nothing but a farm land region then becoming a republic, created by Lenin, and nothing more. Even UN diplomats from Eastern Europe chided the UN when Kiev junta took over and reminded everyone that "Ukraine" is simply being used for political reasons these days with no historical proof of ANY sort pointing out it was ever a country. OR ETHNICITY of any sort, with most of the population being RUSSIAN. The only addition to that ethnicity was the 1939 divide of Poland with Stalin grabbing traditionally Polish (Galicia), Romanian, Hungarian and Slovakian lands (southwest of L'vov region). Ukranian language itself is but an olden Russian dialect of poorly educated "outskirts", slang really, with an influx of Polish (mostly) and some Hungarian/Romanian thrown in. There are no such people as "ukranian", doesn't matter who tries to brainwash us.

I was born in Lvov, mostly known to the rest of Europe as LEMBERG, for centuries, and still. Sounds Russian, right :-) You can't imagine just how many Poles, or Germans I talked to asking me where I was born. Lvov mostly draws blank stares, but when I mention LEMBERG, they all go, "Ah, of course!"

Krym, or as it is called Crimea in the West, are lands taken by a RUSSIAN QUEEN from Ottoman Empire. When the word "ukraine" didn't even exist. MASANDRA WINERY, who do you think founded it? Again, given to "Ukraine republic" (but never a country) by Khruschiov (accent on o), in 1957, once again, by his royal decree. A "gift", you know, like a box of candy. City of Odessa, who founded it? Nikolaev. I can go on and on an on... All Russian founded and built. I challenge anyone to point out any city on the map that was founded by so called "ukrainians".

What you, and everyone else, know as "Ukraine" is nothing but mostly historically Russian lands well known to historians as Novorossia (New Russia).

Teaching made up history doesn't negate the facts.

BTW, what is also not well known to most, being hidden as much as is possible, is the systemic extermination of Jews by these so called "ukranians", led by Bandera. When Germans stepped into Lvov in 1941, Stepan Bandera and Co. (not ethnically "ukranian", a German roots baptist/criminal, as are most of his followers, to this day, many now residing in West Sacramento!!!) exterminated nearly 93,000 Jews living there for centuries (Lvov synagogue was founded in 14th century, never touched by anyone, including Germans, until it "burned on its own accord, for reasons unknown" in 1961, by the "peaceful ukrainians"). Extermination and atrocities by Bandera and Co. in Lvov were so bad that even Germans were appalled and asked them to tone it down. By the end of the war, when Soviet Army freed the city, only 100 Jews remained, in hiding of course, out of 93,000.

Mass hangings of Bandera and Co., in Kiev, at the end of the war were not enough to cleanse the region, Lvov still celebrates their SS Galichina (Galicia) Division, all volunteers and one of 2 that fought on the Nazi side. Google "Lvov" and "SS Galichina", see what pops up. Then google "Lvov pogroms" and see how you like it. The other such SS division was Nachtigal. But SS Galichina still celebrates, ANNUALLY, with swastikas, full SS uniforms and regalia, and now have a museum. Just last month, they celebrated "75th Anniversary", again, openly. Junta we helped 5+ years ago in taking over. And still do.

Lvov's Jewish cemetary, there for centuries, has been raised and built upon in the past few years. Some few graves still stand, on my maternal side, those on paternal are now gone.

These are the people we support now. What's the saying, You just can't make this shit up.

Just thought you should know a bit more about your ancestry. RUSSIAN Jew ancestry. And never "ukrainian". Its an insult to all of us.
I have no interest in debating this topic, but I will just point out that this somewhat odd post is very one sided and not representative of an evenhanded view.

And I say this as a Russian Jew with no particular love lost for Ukraine.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#327 Post by markjchambers » June 20th, 2020, 5:28 pm

AndyK wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 8:34 pm
markjchambers wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 6:37 pm
I think there is a difference between supporting Trump and willfully destroying the environment for financial gain. The latter is a cold business decision. They gain more by destroying the environment than the fine costs them, so they do it. Rhys is not the only winery to do this and I wouldn't buy from any of them.
Are you seriously asking what's worse for the environment? Rhys or Trump?
Sorry, if I was taken the wrong way. The OP was boycotting Rhys for a specific thing they did which was related to their business. That's not the same things as supporting a political cause or a politician. Trump is obviously much worse for the environment than the worst actors in the wine business. Not even close.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#328 Post by Mel Knox » June 20th, 2020, 5:49 pm

I see that PG and E just plead guilty to the deaths of 84 people and the destruction of Paradise California. They paid a 3 million plus fine.
Hmm..wish i could boycott them.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#329 Post by MarkSt » June 20th, 2020, 6:04 pm

markjchambers wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 5:28 pm
AndyK wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 8:34 pm
markjchambers wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 6:37 pm
I think there is a difference between supporting Trump and willfully destroying the environment for financial gain. The latter is a cold business decision. They gain more by destroying the environment than the fine costs them, so they do it. Rhys is not the only winery to do this and I wouldn't buy from any of them.
Are you seriously asking what's worse for the environment? Rhys or Trump?
Sorry, if I was taken the wrong way. The OP was boycotting Rhys for a specific thing they did which was related to their business. That's not the same things as supporting a political cause or a politician. Trump is obviously much worse for the environment than the worst actors in the wine business. Not even close.
Wow... Andy wins again...
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#330 Post by Steve Anderson » June 20th, 2020, 6:33 pm

Appears to me that WB has jumped the shark. Time To move on. 🍷
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#331 Post by Marshall Manning » June 20th, 2020, 7:30 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 12:21 pm
The only forums I am familiar with are wine and Hi Fi, so I might be thinking too broadly, but it seems geeking out in the minutia of a hobby is more of a guy thing.

My wife loves drinking wine and playing the Hi Fi, but doesn't give a shit about comparing the 1961 vs. 1966 vintages, or the advantages of digital vs. analog or tube vs. solid state. it's funny, she has a killer palate and a great ear, and seeks out wine tasting and music listening, only without the onanistic part that so many men use to approach these subjects.
Anton, if I ever get back through Chico (graduated in '88), I'm looking you up. Good wine and good sound!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#332 Post by Tran Bronstein » June 20th, 2020, 9:09 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
June 19th, 2020, 12:16 pm
Tran Bronstein wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 10:11 pm
But as a minority person, I personally don't care to be lectured at on racial support and equality by Caucasian people who cannot have possibly experienced a lack of it themselves due to their race as my family and I have. Unless they have also suffered discrimination and hate and prejudice because of their religious beliefs or sexuality that would allow them to empathize from an equal experience which they have not revealed in their content and frankly don't need to as it's none of my business.
Excellent post Tran. No one likes to be lectured by anyone, I suppose, but I bristled a little at this portion of your post though, and particularly the language I bolded.

The simple fact is that without intimate knowledge of an individual's personal and family history, it is very dangerous and I think profoundly unfair to separate out "Caucasian people" as "the other" here and presume that their history doesn't involve prejudice.

Neal, thank you for your touching reply. I apologize it wasn't clear in my original post, I am 100% with you. I was alluding to this by saying in my original post that there could be something in their background they weren't telling us that would mean they actually did have equivalent experience and understanding as you obviously did but weren't telling us about and wasn't any of our business. My only concern was that without such experience, like the kind you have gone through, it's very hard for me personally to take their stance as a lecture as opposed to empathy and there is a world of difference in between.

Half of my mixed family is Jewish like yourself, I'm sure my last name kind of gave that away, so I know being Caucasian in North America certainly doesn't guarantee a discrimination and hate free life by any means, unfortunately. It does lessen the potential from what I have seen, though.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#333 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 20th, 2020, 10:48 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 12:21 pm
The only forums I am familiar with are wine and Hi Fi, so I might be thinking too broadly, but it seems geeking out in the minutia of a hobby is more of a guy thing.

My wife loves drinking wine and playing the Hi Fi, but doesn't give a shit about comparing the 1961 vs. 1966 vintages, or the advantages of digital vs. analog or tube vs. solid state. it's funny, she has a killer palate and a great ear, and seeks out wine tasting and music listening, only without the onanistic part that so many men use to approach these subjects.
So you’re saying she delegates well...
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#334 Post by David Baum » June 20th, 2020, 11:33 pm

Came home with a case of Merry SB. Boycotting all wineries sounded so easy. #fail #allhailonan

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#335 Post by Gareth Welch » June 21st, 2020, 3:52 am

Why are people boycotting Liquid Farm?

Genuine Question - it’s the only one of the wineries I’ve bought from over here?

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#336 Post by Pat Burton » June 21st, 2020, 5:50 am

Gareth Welch wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 3:52 am
Why are people boycotting Liquid Farm?

Genuine Question - it’s the only one of the wineries I’ve bought from over here?
There were allegations that liquid farm was violating the governor's orders and conducting tastings. The winemaker responded saying it was only family that had been spending time there. The thread got locked after that and now I can't find it.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#337 Post by Thomas DeBiase » June 21st, 2020, 9:01 am

I just logged to say that RTJ4 is a banger. ALBUM OF THE YEAR.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#338 Post by Mike Reff » June 21st, 2020, 1:21 pm

I boycott Del Dotto, when I heard that there real name is Del Blotto!
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#339 Post by Howard Cooper » June 21st, 2020, 1:37 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 9:14 am
Also: this Board has an admirable history of supporting valuable social causes. And those threads have not been littered, or even sprinkled, with dissension. I find it odd, and terribly disappointing, to see it's the topic of fighting against racism that's drawing-out some arguments that could have equally been made before, but weren't. The logical inconsistency is clear. And the fact that it's this topic says a lot.

Would anyone be up in arms if the Pax email had, instead of expressing support for BLM, instead expressed support for Laura's House? (Which I assume the vast majority of posters in this thread know about) How about if the topic had been supporting folks in wine country affected by wildfires? ...

There is a huge cost to all of us to saying nothing. I grew up in the South where saying nothing has long meant that racists get their way. It has been this way everywhere where good people say nothing and let others literally get away with murder. Never again.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#340 Post by Markus S » June 21st, 2020, 2:23 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 5:49 pm
I see that PG and E ...Hmm..wish i could boycott them.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#341 Post by Anton D » June 21st, 2020, 2:37 pm

I boycott one winery because of their ridiculous PIA wine bottle size.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#342 Post by Mel Knox » June 21st, 2020, 3:55 pm

Markus,
I can always add more solar too.

Anton,
This is a big issue for many ,esp in Europe. However, if you refill the bottles with water, you can use them for power lifting.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#343 Post by Rob Weaver » June 21st, 2020, 5:51 pm

I’m reminded of Jeremiah 17:9-

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Each and everyone of you who has boycotted anything is rightfully the subject of the same if your deeds and thoughts were exposed. You are no better than the person or organization you choose to disdain, you are just flawed in a different and hidden way.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#344 Post by Sean S y d n e y » June 21st, 2020, 8:13 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 3:54 pm
H Guy wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 1:40 pm
Alpha Omega due to a certain minority investor.
Uh, oh.

Details?
Looks like Devin Nunes*.

*THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT [truce.gif]
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#345 Post by AndyK » June 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm

Rob Weaver wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 5:51 pm
I’m reminded of Jeremiah 17:9-

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Each and everyone of you who has boycotted anything is rightfully the subject of the same if your deeds and thoughts were exposed. You are no better than the person or organization you choose to disdain, you are just flawed in a different and hidden way.
What?
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#346 Post by Andrew Gold » June 21st, 2020, 9:15 pm

AndyK wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm
Rob Weaver wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 5:51 pm
I’m reminded of Jeremiah 17:9-

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Each and everyone of you who has boycotted anything is rightfully the subject of the same if your deeds and thoughts were exposed. You are no better than the person or organization you choose to disdain, you are just flawed in a different and hidden way.
What?
Reminds me of Jeremiah 18:12 " blessed be the ignore button"

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#347 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 21st, 2020, 9:58 pm

Rob Weaver wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 5:51 pm
I’m reminded of Jeremiah 17:9-

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Each and everyone of you who has boycotted anything is rightfully the subject of the same if your deeds and thoughts were exposed. You are no better than the person or organization you choose to not financially support, you are just flawed in a different and hidden way.
Boycott and disdain are different, if not always separate.

But sure thing. And I benefit from being called on it. If someone said to me, “I don’t buy Goodfellow wine because you did x.” Then I would look at their statement and work on it.

We didn’t email like Pax did, but if someone said they were boycotting me because I posted activist statements on my IG account, I would tell them I respect their decision regarding how they spend their money and then keep on posting what I feel is important enough to post, even of it costs me customers.

This is the contract of society. We benefit from the things a group can do that an individual can’t (see Fu’s fundraiser for NAACP-LDF) and in order to take advantage of those benefits we accommodate the rules of the group. No one is perfect, but we all bear the responsibility of determining where the boundaries are, and being bound by the determinations of others, regardless of our own shortcomings. So even if we’re flawed, in this country-by the people and for the people-we have an obligation to act with intention for a better (and just) place-even if we’re not always perfect ourselves.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#348 Post by Chris Seiber » June 21st, 2020, 11:36 pm

johngonzales wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 1:21 pm
And now the thread should be moved to Politics. I don’t expect that, but it’s gone WAY beyond wine or the winery’s email. At the very least it should go to Asylum, off of the wine feed.
Here is the text of the rule, as copied from the Wine Berserkers rules:

Politics:

Simply, NOT allowed on any forum other than the Politics forum, which you can join and get access to via your User Control Panel (see the sticky above the Asylum on joining groups).

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#349 Post by Wes Barton » June 21st, 2020, 11:40 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 3:55 pm
Anton,
This is a big issue for many ,esp in Europe. However, if you refill the bottles with water, you can use them for power lifting.
I'm convinced the really big bottles weigh the same with or without liquid in them.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#350 Post by R. Somerville » June 22nd, 2020, 4:41 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 11:36 pm
johngonzales wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 1:21 pm
And now the thread should be moved to Politics. I don’t expect that, but it’s gone WAY beyond wine or the winery’s email. At the very least it should go to Asylum, off of the wine feed.
Here is the text of the rule, as copied from the Wine Berserkers rules:

Politics:

Simply, NOT allowed on any forum other than the Politics forum, which you can join and get access to via your User Control Panel (see the sticky above the Asylum on joining groups).
Thought that the first page and here we are seven pages later!

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