Ever boycott a winery?

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Bob Hughes
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#151 Post by Bob Hughes » June 17th, 2020, 9:07 am

Boy, I don't think I've ever agreed more with a post on this Board than the one Jay just posted!

Thank you, Jay, for saying this far better than I ever could.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#152 Post by Kelly Flynn » June 17th, 2020, 9:09 am

Anton D wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:53 am
Kelly Flynn wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:36 am

Boycotting a company for a perceived political transgression is not likely to oust the CEO who made the decision, but it might well result in the loss of employment for the low-level staff that virtue signallers typically purport to champion.
Shut up and buy the wine, then?
Anton, at the end of the day we just have to make our own decisions about these things. If the corporate bad behavior, IYO, exceeds some threshold you have devised, then don't buy the wine. Or, better yet, give them the feedback that the offending behavior was unacceptable to you. If your goal is actually to alter the behavior, rather than simply feel righteous about your consumer choices, it seems a much more realistic way to achieve that goal. Sometimes those who offend us have no idea they are doing so. This feedback, as opposed to an attempt to destroy them economically via a boycott, might actually lead to the introspection Sean referenced.

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Cris Whetstone
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#153 Post by Cris Whetstone » June 17th, 2020, 9:14 am

I can never understand the push for economics to be considered before morals. Or even in place of them. That's a sort of bright light focus on the tenor of the times.

In nearly every case using the term "virtue signaling" is actual virtue signaling.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#154 Post by R. Somerville » June 17th, 2020, 10:12 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm
I am a grouch, and you are making a useless gesture.
Boom! [rofl.gif]
Mike Maguire wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:40 am
Nick T. wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 7:47 pm
Markus S wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 6:58 pm
You really want to go down this path? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Thank you for the most intelligent comment in this whole thread
+2
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
This thread should be moved to Asylum or even Politics. We’ve seen people called racists, been lectured on privilege, and the list goes on. I’m not debating whether these points are right or wrong, but if this is the “new normal” for this forum, I’ll go find another board to discuss wine. As a paying member, I’d really appreciate if the mods would move this thread to the correct forum.
+1
I too was dismayed to see this thread descend very quickly into name calling - I've been away about 6 years and it doesn't bode well, never saw anything like this before on here. Was equally surprised that a moderator didn't step in after the accusations of racism. Really hope this great forum doesn't follow other platforms footsteps and descended into the gutter.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#155 Post by Mel Knox » June 17th, 2020, 10:20 am

Another admonition from the Bible might be, The sins of the father shall not be cast upon the son....or something like that.

If a younger Grivelet started a winery, would anybody buy?? I guess I would be nervous. Hmm Chambertin Clos de Beze...$30...
I remember back inthe 70s a NY wine merchant ran an ad saying, Hey we have found this great producer who prices wines right. Then the bad news broke while I was in Burgundy with some winemakers. My thought: why are we visiting people who make Volnay with Volnay grapes? Anybody can do that. Let's visit a guy who can make Musigny with grapes from Algeria. Does anybody know how the case was resolved??

What about the de Montilles?? Would you boycott Roulot wines because JM's father in law said something bad?? Should Etienne be the fall guy??

Fact magazine once published an article, Should Jews drive Volkswagens?? Of course, one could ask, should Jews drive Fords?? What about Porsches?? In the case of Porsche-Audi-Volkswagen the sons have managed to do some original sinning, but that's another story.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#156 Post by Markus S » June 17th, 2020, 10:23 am

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
...I’ll go find another board to discuss wine. ...
Good luck with that. Only a couple out there.
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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#157 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 17th, 2020, 10:26 am

Markus S wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
...I’ll go find another board to discuss wine. ...
Good luck with that. Only a couple out there.
Okay, maybe I went a bit too far there! [wink.gif]

Seriously, I'm not complaining about what's been posted. I'm complaining about which forum the thread is located. Wine Talk is my little oasis to escape politics and name calling every now and then.

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Marshall Manning
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#158 Post by Marshall Manning » June 17th, 2020, 10:28 am

R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:12 am
I too was dismayed to see this thread descend very quickly into name calling - I've been away about 6 years and it doesn't bode well, never saw anything like this before on here. Was equally surprised that a moderator didn't step in after the accusations of racism. Really hope this great forum doesn't follow other platforms footsteps and descended into the gutter.
Agreed. I've been mostly away from wine boards for over a decade, and I was hoping this type of thing might have passed.

I think the OP had an interesting question, as we all have different levels of tolerance for business/ethical practices, and sometimes focus our research or consideration more on things (wine, food, golf, whatever) that we are passionate about as opposed to general merchandise. I don't know if I would call it a "boycott", as in my mind that seems more organized and public, but there are many wineries I won't buy from because of their politics, lawsuits, business practices, etc.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#159 Post by Markus S » June 17th, 2020, 10:30 am

Mstanford wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
.... I'm here for the wine conversation, not to hear you pontificate.
So you'd rather hear middle and upper age blowhards pontificate about wine? [wow.gif]
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#160 Post by Scott Brunson » June 17th, 2020, 10:39 am

J B a s k a m wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 5:54 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 4:17 am
I would not buy Trump wines, stay in a Trump Hotel, play golf at Doral, etc.
I think the OP brought up a good question; it is unfortunate and inevitable that it would become political. I am in no way defending or showing allegiance to the president; but this is about as political as one can get. (This is one example. I am not looking to call-out any individual poster).

Though I understand how heated and important these times are, I am not sure that posts like this are helpful, at least not on a wine board. They normally just lead to a hijacked and ultimately locked thread.
Perhaps Howard’s reasons have nothing to do with politics.
My only boycotts are Montille and all things Constellation.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#161 Post by Mel Knox » June 17th, 2020, 10:49 am

Scott,
do you also boycott Roulot??

Edited for politics
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#162 Post by Al Osterheld » June 17th, 2020, 10:54 am

Personally, I buy wine I want to drink. So far as I can recall, I have never overtly boycotted a winery. But, there are many factors that influence what I want to drink, including personal interactions and other aspects like actions taken by owners or winemakers.

BTW, I think the title of the Polanski film was An Officer and a Spy (in the US).

The Bible is a bit inconsistent as far as the impact of the sins of a father on his offspring (and even unto the third and fourth generation).

-Al

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#163 Post by Mark Mason » June 17th, 2020, 10:55 am

I also don't like when businesses feel compelled to state their political views, it seems they are going to upset at least 45% of their client base on any given topic. Even worse are the actors and singers that use their clout to push political agendas. "Shut up and dribble" makes sense to me.

Huet as well, for their treatment of Chris, there is no room for behavior like that. There is also a well known California Pinot maker I no longer buy from based off his behavior on this board and treatment of a fellow winemaker.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#164 Post by Dale Williams » June 17th, 2020, 10:59 am

I can't really see myself boycotting a winery because owner donated money to a political candidate I don't care for. Nor do I spend time researching the social/political views of winemakers before buying. But in the aftermath of the 9/11 comments I stopped buying de Montille wines for several years (but was never a big buyer). Like Bob H the only stance I currently take that would classify as a boycott is no longer buying Montevertine. Those comments were ugly and Manetti chose to make his racism clear on his winery's social media pages. I love the wines but will no longer spend money to benefit him, even if difference is something he'll never notice. I do continue to open the ones I had, last time was at a MLK Day benefit for racial justice. I guess I'd boycott Bressan as well, but never bought to start with.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#165 Post by Mike Maguire » June 17th, 2020, 11:00 am

Understand Jays post totally, You could use rocks and glass houses as an example instead of a bible reference , which I’m guessing most people have heard in a non religious setting.Bottom line is a board member called another board member a racist, if allowed we have hit rock bottom.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#166 Post by Mel Knox » June 17th, 2020, 11:03 am

Al,

You got me. I haven't read the Bible since 1963.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#167 Post by Ken Strauss » June 17th, 2020, 11:04 am

Back a few years ago I decided I would never buy Kutch wines after Jamie attacked Nola and never apologized.
As some have said there are plenty of wines to buy.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#168 Post by c fu » June 17th, 2020, 11:07 am

I saw this thread when it was two posts. Now it’s four pages.

A few things

1) usually if someone says something stupid, we leave it up and let them roast in the backlash. But sometimes we don’t. We try to look into intent and the rationale. Will take a look at the racist accusation. If we do delete it, all followup replies in regards to the comment get deleted as well. So if you’re curious where your post went, now you know. That takes a little time and being in front of a desktop. But most likely the comment will be removed as it detracts from civil discussion and focuses everyone’s attention on an extreme comment that’s not called for. So give it a little time and we will clean up the thread. The overtly political posts that attack political figures will be deleted asap

2) being a “paying member” does not allow you to demand us how to act or what we should do. Your contribution gives you plenty of benefits but that isn’t one of them. Which leads into #3

3) The thread is staying in wine talk. There’s great discussion whether or not you agree with the actions taken by the participants (both ways). We have opinions from wineries on why they advocate for what they do. There’s useful information on wineries that is new to many people. We don’t move threads solely on the fact that there are detours within the thread. It’s when it deviates too hard and has no more use in wine talk that it gets moved

Hope that answers some questions.

Side note

Matt is a friend of mine. If anyone is curious why he’s concerned about Rhys’ actions just google what he’s been doing work wise for the last decade+ prior to his sabbatical. He is as honest, thoughtful, and intelligent as anyone I’ve had the pleasure of meeting in wine.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#169 Post by Thomas Keim » June 17th, 2020, 11:17 am

Anton D wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:50 am
Brandon R wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:26 am
Thomas Keim wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:13 am
Boycotting Napa Cellars in Napa because they looked at me the wrong way at a trade show....
[rofl.gif]
I'm boycotting Thomas because his avatar is beer related and this is not Beer Berserkers, it is effing Wine Berserkers, for crying out loud!!! [diablo.gif]
Well! I am boycotting Anton because he leaves his records by a window with the sun coming in and they are all warped.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#170 Post by AndyK » June 17th, 2020, 11:37 am

deleted
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#171 Post by Alan Rath » June 17th, 2020, 11:45 am

Steve L Gellman wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 3:27 am
I will only shop at Lowe’s not Home Depot. Lowe’s just donated 25 million to help minority owned businesses reopen. Home Depot founder donated 7 mil to Trump
You may want to reconsider whether either company is more or less involved in whatever politics you support or do no support. Looks to me like they hedge their bets both ways, as do many large companies looking to curry favor in various government actions.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lowes ... epot-meme/
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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#172 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 17th, 2020, 11:47 am

Alan Rath wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
Steve L Gellman wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 3:27 am
I will only shop at Lowe’s not Home Depot. Lowe’s just donated 25 million to help minority owned businesses reopen. Home Depot founder donated 7 mil to Trump
You may want to reconsider whether either company is more or less involved in whatever politics you support or do no support. Looks to me like they hedge their bets both ways, as do many large companies looking to curry favor in various government actions.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lowes ... epot-meme/
For example, Keisha Lance Bottom's husband is a senior executive working at Home Depot.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#173 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 17th, 2020, 11:52 am

c fu wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 11:07 am
I saw this thread when it was two posts. Now it’s four pages.

A few things

1) usually if someone says something stupid, we leave it up and let them roast in the backlash. But sometimes we don’t. We try to look into intent and the rationale. Will take a look at the racist accusation. If we do delete it, all followup replies in regards to the comment get deleted as well. So if you’re curious where your post went, now you know. That takes a little time and being in front of a desktop. But most likely the comment will be removed as it detracts from civil discussion and focuses everyone’s attention on an extreme comment that’s not called for. So give it a little time and we will clean up the thread. The overtly political posts that attack political figures will be deleted asap

2) being a “paying member” does not allow you to demand us how to act or what we should do. Your contribution gives you plenty of benefits but that isn’t one of them. Which leads into #3

3) The thread is staying in wine talk. There’s great discussion whether or not you agree with the actions taken by the participants (both ways). We have opinions from wineries on why they advocate for what they do. There’s useful information on wineries that is new to many people. We don’t move threads solely on the fact that there are detours within the thread. It’s when it deviates too hard and has no more use in wine talk that it gets moved

Hope that answers some questions.

Side note

Matt is a friend of mine. If anyone is curious why he’s concerned about Rhys’ actions just google what he’s been doing work wise for the last decade+ prior to his sabbatical. He is as honest, thoughtful, and intelligent as anyone I’ve had the pleasure of meeting in wine.
Thanks for weighing in and making a decision on how to handle this. For the record, this "paying member" didn't "demand" the mods move the post - my comment was "As a paying member, I’d really appreciate if the mods would move this thread to the correct forum".

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#174 Post by Al Osterheld » June 17th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 11:03 am
Al,

You got me. I haven't read the Bible since 1963.
It's been a while for me, too. Didn't get you, it does have the passage you cited, and others in a somewhat different vein.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#175 Post by Jeff Rosenberg » June 17th, 2020, 12:08 pm

Perhaps my original reply to this topic (#5) would have better been stated as follows: An certain winery sent an unsolicited email supporting a social activist movement that has become divisive and politically volatile. As my email address was provided for business purposes only, I was annoyed and asked to be removed from their database. They obliged and I am no longer a customer.


There. Is that better?

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#176 Post by Andrew Gold » June 17th, 2020, 12:09 pm

Mark Mason wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:55 am
I also don't like when businesses feel compelled to state their political views, it seems they are going to upset at least 45% of their client base on any given topic. Even worse are the actors and singers that use their clout to push political agendas. "Shut up and dribble" makes sense to me.

Huet as well, for their treatment of Chris, there is no room for behavior like that. There is also a well known California Pinot maker I no longer buy from based off his behavior on this board and treatment of a fellow winemaker.
We're certainly all allowed to our opinions, but the "shut up and dribble" comment is repugnant to my mind.

Businesses are all using clout to push political agendas, any comment to the contrary is delusional. Most of it is done behind the scenes of course, so as to avoid alienating a client base- but in my mind that makes it much worse, not acceptable.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#177 Post by AndyK » June 17th, 2020, 12:13 pm

Jeff Rosenberg wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:08 pm
Perhaps my original reply to this topic (#5) would have better been stated as follows: An certain winery sent an unsolicited email supporting a social activist movement that has become divisive and politically volatile. As my email address was provided for business purposes only, I was annoyed and asked to be removed from their database. They obliged and I am no longer a customer.


There. Is that better?
No. You're saying the same stupid thing with different words


/edit: I'm saying "stupid" because that's apparently ok based on c.fu's post. If I really told you what I think, I'd get banned

/edit2: Oh, and my previous comment was deleted, so you can guess what I said.
Last edited by AndyK on June 17th, 2020, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#178 Post by Greg K » June 17th, 2020, 12:17 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 9:02 am
Mike Maguire wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:40 am
Nick T. wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 7:47 pm


Thank you for the most intelligent comment in this whole thread
+1
-1

Sorry, I prefer the nonreligious axiom, "perfect is the enemy of the good." The idea that the inability to be perfect means that you shouldn't even be good, or the argument that the inability to be perfect excuses bad behavior, is a position that is just unacceptable. When I was in Berlin, I didn't use a litmus test for every shop I went into, but when I decided to buy some German chocolate and went into a famous chocolate shop that proudly proclaimed that it was founded in 1939 on a brass plaque at the front door, I turned around and bought my chocolate somewhere else. Maybe that was silly, but maybe the shop was seized by the Nazis from a Jewish family and turned over to a party a member, with the current owners still proud of the date of formation. For that matter, maybe the shop that I went to was owned by the great-grandson of a colonel in the SS. I may not have been perfect, but I didn't use the inability be perfect as an excuse.
Exactly! Were US consumers not supposed to boycott South Africa due to apartheid because we have our own issues?

I would also add that an individual’s boycott choice is entirely their own, so I’m puzzled why some posters are so upset by those choices, or by the choices of business to support their own political causes. No one is forcing you to join them. The people that make your wine aren’t required to “shut up and make wine” any mire than you are required to shut up and drink it.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#179 Post by M.Kaplan » June 17th, 2020, 12:45 pm

I boycott Glenmorangie PLC because the soulless, cretinous, f*ckwads ruined Ardbeg, once the greatest spirit in the history of mankind.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#180 Post by R. Somerville » June 17th, 2020, 12:46 pm

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:26 am
Markus S wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
...I’ll go find another board to discuss wine. ...
Good luck with that. Only a couple out there.
Okay, maybe I went a bit too far there! [wink.gif]

Seriously, I'm not complaining about what's been posted. I'm complaining about which forum the thread is located. Wine Talk is my little oasis to escape politics and name calling every now and then.

I'm with you on that Scott.

Anyway, this forum is full of pansies compared to some of my bike related forums! [snort.gif] - ridiculous keyboard warriors fighting over everything from wives to custom build artistic integrity! [pillow-fight.gif] Was entertaining, hilarious and great fun at times but, ultimately, could become tedious before a mod would shut it down.

Think the owner got fed up too - he shut it down after 15+ years of madness, especially when the politics became more frequent than motorcycle discussions. Shame really.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#181 Post by Pat Burton » June 17th, 2020, 12:54 pm

R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:26 am
Markus S wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:23 am


Good luck with that. Only a couple out there.
Okay, maybe I went a bit too far there! [wink.gif]

Seriously, I'm not complaining about what's been posted. I'm complaining about which forum the thread is located. Wine Talk is my little oasis to escape politics and name calling every now and then.

I'm with you on that Scott.

Anyway, this forum is full of pussies compared to some of my bike related forums! [snort.gif] - ridiculous keyboard warriors fighting over everything from wives to custom build artistic integrity! [pillow-fight.gif] Was entertaining, hilarious and great fun at times but, ultimately, could become tedious before a mod would shut it down.

Think the owner got fed up too - he shut it down after 15+ years of madness, especially when the politics became more frequent than motorcycle discussions. Shame really.
Your choice to use a female body part as an insult to others is, at best, anachronistic. Also, how does this post mesh with your desire for this forum to stay focused on wine?
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#182 Post by Pat Burton » June 17th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:26 am
Markus S wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
...I’ll go find another board to discuss wine. ...
Good luck with that. Only a couple out there.
Okay, maybe I went a bit too far there! [wink.gif]

Seriously, I'm not complaining about what's been posted. I'm complaining about which forum the thread is located. Wine Talk is my little oasis to escape politics and name calling every now and then.
Scott, I get what you are saying but threads purely about wine blow up fairly frequently. This place is hardly devoid of name calling.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#183 Post by Mattstolz » June 17th, 2020, 1:01 pm

Bob Hughes wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:57 am
Wow - some pretty interesting posts here (and I, for one, hope this doesn't get moved to Politics).

But I would like to think that at the end of the day, we would all do this to one degree or another when we make our purchasing decisions. To use the most extreme example I can think of, if Hitler made a 100 point Riesling, I'd like to think any logical person would have to conclude that despite the wine's merits, they just couldn't in good conscience support that kind of a venture.

So then the question is where do you draw the line? One that comes to mind for me is Montevertine. Those of you who have read my tasting notes over the years know how much I love Sangiovese, and it literally kills me not to buy Le Pergole Torte. But Manetti's racist comments are so against anything I stand for I'm not sure how I could personally rationalize that kind of buying decision, so I choose not to.

To each his own.
Well damnit. From a purely taste perspective PT is some of my favorite wine made anywhere, I even have empty bottles displayed at my house since the labels are so pretty. But there’s no way I can continue to display those or purchase the wines after reading his comments.

Thank you for pointing this out

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#184 Post by Al Osterheld » June 17th, 2020, 1:03 pm

The wife of one of my co-workers participated in a knitting forum (professional, just liked knitting as a hobby). They created a second forum called something like knit-flame where they moved the contentious discussions.

Another wine forum created a sub-forum called something like Black Hole where anything was allowed, no moderation. It was closed after a relatively short time because it proved to be more of a catalyst than an therapeutic outlet.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#185 Post by Jeff Rosenberg » June 17th, 2020, 1:13 pm

AndyK wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:13 pm
Jeff Rosenberg wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:08 pm
Perhaps my original reply to this topic (#5) would have better been stated as follows: An certain winery sent an unsolicited email supporting a social activist movement that has become divisive and politically volatile. As my email address was provided for business purposes only, I was annoyed and asked to be removed from their database. They obliged and I am no longer a customer.


There. Is that better?
No. You're saying the same stupid thing with different words


/edit: I'm saying "stupid" because that's apparently ok based on c.fu's post. If I really told you what I think, I'd get banned

/edit2: Oh, and my previous comment was deleted, so you can guess what I said.
Andy, don’t hold back. Say what you really think. Send it as a PM if you like.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#186 Post by Paul Miller » June 17th, 2020, 1:27 pm

Jeff Rosenberg wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:13 pm
AndyK wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:13 pm
Jeff Rosenberg wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:08 pm
Perhaps my original reply to this topic (#5) would have better been stated as follows: An certain winery sent an unsolicited email supporting a social activist movement that has become divisive and politically volatile. As my email address was provided for business purposes only, I was annoyed and asked to be removed from their database. They obliged and I am no longer a customer.


There. Is that better?
No. You're saying the same stupid thing with different words


/edit: I'm saying "stupid" because that's apparently ok based on c.fu's post. If I really told you what I think, I'd get banned

/edit2: Oh, and my previous comment was deleted, so you can guess what I said.
Andy, don’t hold back. Say what you really think. Send it as a PM if you like.
Just say it. "ALL lives matter."

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#187 Post by Anton D » June 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm

Thomas Keim wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 11:17 am
Anton D wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:50 am
Brandon R wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:26 am

[rofl.gif]
I'm boycotting Thomas because his avatar is beer related and this is not Beer Berserkers, it is effing Wine Berserkers, for crying out loud!!! [diablo.gif]
Well! I am boycotting Anton because he leaves his records by a window with the sun coming in and they are all warped.
Ouch, that just hurts, man. [cry.gif]
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#188 Post by Paul McCourt » June 17th, 2020, 1:33 pm

B
Last edited by Paul McCourt on June 17th, 2020, 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#189 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm

Andrew Gold wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:09 pm
Mark Mason wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:55 am
I also don't like when businesses feel compelled to state their political views, it seems they are going to upset at least 45% of their client base on any given topic. Even worse are the actors and singers that use their clout to push political agendas. "Shut up and dribble" makes sense to me.

Huet as well, for their treatment of Chris, there is no room for behavior like that. There is also a well known California Pinot maker I no longer buy from based off his behavior on this board and treatment of a fellow winemaker.
We're certainly all allowed to our opinions, but the "shut up and dribble" comment is repugnant to my mind.

Businesses are all using clout to push political agendas, any comment to the contrary is delusional. Most of it is done behind the scenes of course, so as to avoid alienating a client base- but in my mind that makes it much worse, not acceptable.
It’s also important to realize that our governmental system doesn’t start from informed or perfect. Political agendas are not all self centered(although most are and most are self serving as well).

We also don’t vote on what an American winery should be or offer a voter based idea of what a blueprint for the preferred American winery is.

So pretty much every winery, whether Wagner/Jackson/Jadot like or Eyrie/Goodfellow/Arnot Roberts like is the result of a successful influence on the regulatory bodies in charge.

That you can buy Napa Cabernet or Willamette Valley Pinot Noir is a direct result of well meaning companies pushing an agenda. There’s little doubt that I benefit from Willamette Valley being a protected and regulated name. There’s also little doubt that the wine consumer does too.

And at the extreme end, without us as corporations pushing an agenda of honesty and transparency, what Rudy K did would not be illegal.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#190 Post by AndyK » June 17th, 2020, 1:38 pm

Paul McCourt wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:33 pm
Personally, I think one email of the (I think not really of overt political nature) from a firm resulting in making me never buy from them is an overreaction of a pretty large magnitude. But to each their own. To me, this is no different than a winery telling me about their green practices and me reacting by boycotting them forever. There wouldn't be many companies left for me to work with if I was so hyper-protective of my emails.
For any reasonable person, that's correct. But that's not the case here
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#191 Post by R. Somerville » June 17th, 2020, 1:39 pm

Pat Burton wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:54 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:26 am


Okay, maybe I went a bit too far there! [wink.gif]

Seriously, I'm not complaining about what's been posted. I'm complaining about which forum the thread is located. Wine Talk is my little oasis to escape politics and name calling every now and then.

I'm with you on that Scott.

Anyway, this forum is full of pussies compared to some of my bike related forums! [snort.gif] - ridiculous keyboard warriors fighting over everything from wives to custom build artistic integrity! [pillow-fight.gif] Was entertaining, hilarious and great fun at times but, ultimately, could become tedious before a mod would shut it down.

Think the owner got fed up too - he shut it down after 15+ years of madness, especially when the politics became more frequent than motorcycle discussions. Shame really.
Your choice to use a female body part as an insult to others is, at best, anachronistic. Also, how does this post mesh with your desire for this forum to stay focused on wine?
Really? - it was joke. I was making light of those that take themselves too seriously. It seems you're one of those people. As for going off track, that was the ONLY post I've ever made in here for illustration purposes as to why bringing politics into social media platforms, in anyway, shape or form, is a very bad idea no matter what the forum. If people want to argue politics get a room or do it in the correct sub forum.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#192 Post by Frank Murray III » June 17th, 2020, 1:42 pm

Rich, I I would like a place where both women and men feel comfortable joining. The term you used was out of taste and you shouldn't have used it. You can make your point without it.

It's no wonder we don't see more women posting around here.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#193 Post by Wes Barton » June 17th, 2020, 1:45 pm

Years before this forum existed, way back when people actually used the Wine Spectator Forum, there was a "Who can I Boycott???" threat, where someone was infuriated by anti-shipping laws. There were a bunch of like-minded frustrated responses from other users, including a couple calling out the usual distributors. I pointed out the partners of those distributors, who's products they carried, were also big with those anti-shipping lobby dollars. Namely Gallo, Beringer-Blass and Diageo. That garnered a single reply of essentially "Nevermind" and the thread dropped away to oblivion.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#194 Post by Pat Burton » June 17th, 2020, 1:53 pm

R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Pat Burton wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:54 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:46 pm



I'm with you on that Scott.

Anyway, this forum is full of pussies compared to some of my bike related forums! [snort.gif] - ridiculous keyboard warriors fighting over everything from wives to custom build artistic integrity! [pillow-fight.gif] Was entertaining, hilarious and great fun at times but, ultimately, could become tedious before a mod would shut it down.

Think the owner got fed up too - he shut it down after 15+ years of madness, especially when the politics became more frequent than motorcycle discussions. Shame really.
Your choice to use a female body part as an insult to others is, at best, anachronistic. Also, how does this post mesh with your desire for this forum to stay focused on wine?
Really? - it was joke. I was making light of those that take themselves too seriously. It seems you're one of those people. As for going off track, that was the ONLY post I've ever made in here for illustration purposes as to why bringing politics into social media platforms, in anyway, shape or form, is a very bad idea no matter what the forum. If people want to argue politics get a room or do it in the correct sub forum.
I fully recognize it was a joke. It was also in poor taste.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#195 Post by Sean S y d n e y » June 17th, 2020, 1:53 pm

R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:39 pm


Really? - it was joke. I was making light of those that take themselves too seriously. It seems you're one of those people. As for going off track, that was the ONLY post I've ever made in here for illustration purposes as to why bringing politics into social media platforms, in anyway, shape or form, is a very bad idea no matter what the forum. If people want to argue politics get a room or do it in the correct sub forum.
While I hesitate to derail the thread yet again and will leave it at this, calling someone a "pussy" is unacceptable and tasteless and I can't tell if changing it to "pansies" is brilliant satire or jaw-droppingly obtuse.

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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#196 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 17th, 2020, 1:54 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 9:14 am
I can never understand the push for economics to be considered before morals. Or even in place of them. That's a sort of bright light focus on the tenor of the times.

In nearly every case using the term "virtue signaling" is actual virtue signaling.
Whereas a boycott of one is not really much of a signal. Except to oneself, as David already pointed out.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#197 Post by Mstanford » June 17th, 2020, 2:08 pm

Markus S wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
Mstanford wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
.... I'm here for the wine conversation, not to hear you pontificate.
So you'd rather hear middle and upper age blowhards pontificate about wine? [wow.gif]
yes....of course, it's a wine site. if i want to hear a lecture on Privilege, or any other ideology du jour i can turn on the TV.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#198 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 17th, 2020, 2:17 pm

R M Kriete wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 3:59 am
It was only 6 weeks ago, in the midst of the COVID crisis, the prevailing attitude was: We are all in this together. Regardless of our political beliefs, we are all Americans first. The police and other first responders were considered heroes.

Now, Conservatives are again just racists. Liberals are again protesting, looting communists. The police are unredeemable jackboots.

Thank goodness we have this thread to allow us to get back to doing what we Americans do best: Identify and pillory anyone with whom we disagree. Glad everything is back to normal
Actually, it’s been pretty great to see how many people are stepping up to address this issue. I would never say that white supremacists have changed, but the line where we as a country are divided on this issue has never had such a large population on the side of unity and reform. And we’ve never had such a large percentage of the population demanding that it be addressed.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#199 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 17th, 2020, 2:26 pm

Anton D wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:53 am
Kelly Flynn wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 8:36 am

Boycotting a company for a perceived political transgression is not likely to oust the CEO who made the decision, but it might well result in the loss of employment for the low-level staff that virtue signallers typically purport to champion.
Shut up and buy the wine, then?
Well, to play Devil’s Advocate to Kelly, if, as Chris alluded to, we put finance ahead of vitue in business then the most effective tool for altering a corporations decision making would be removing financial support.

If a market has many businesses supplying the consumer, and the wine industry does not lack for choices, removing financial support from a particular winery based upon the actions of executives will not hurt anyone at the lower levels so long as you spend the money in the same geographic wine region. The employees laid off at winery A due to slow sales wil be hired by winery B as your purchases increase their sales.
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Re: Ever boycott a winery?

#200 Post by R. Somerville » June 17th, 2020, 2:42 pm

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:53 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:39 pm


Really? - it was joke. I was making light of those that take themselves too seriously. It seems you're one of those people. As for going off track, that was the ONLY post I've ever made in here for illustration purposes as to why bringing politics into social media platforms, in anyway, shape or form, is a very bad idea no matter what the forum. If people want to argue politics get a room or do it in the correct sub forum.
While I hesitate to derail the thread yet again and will leave it at this, calling someone a "pussy" is unacceptable and tasteless and I can't tell if changing it to "pansies" is brilliant satire or jaw-droppingly obtuse.
I'll go with satire.
Pat Burton wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:53 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Pat Burton wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 12:54 pm

Your choice to use a female body part as an insult to others is, at best, anachronistic. Also, how does this post mesh with your desire for this forum to stay focused on wine?
Really? - it was joke. I was making light of those that take themselves too seriously. It seems you're one of those people. As for going off track, that was the ONLY post I've ever made in here for illustration purposes as to why bringing politics into social media platforms, in anyway, shape or form, is a very bad idea no matter what the forum. If people want to argue politics get a room or do it in the correct sub forum.
I fully recognize it was a joke. It was also in poor taste.
If you think that was poor taste you obviously lead a sheltered life.

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