Distinguishing Typificities of White Burgundies

Hey guys,

How would one characterize the differences in typificities between high quality examples of Chablis, Cote de Beaune, and Pouilly-Fuisse (as opposed to village Maconnais)?

For instance, what may be distinguishing tasting notes of each areas? What are differences in vinification practices (e.g., oak treatment)? What other terroir drivers are notable (e.g., soil composition, length of growing seasons)?

I’m a new user and first time poster here! I look forward to learning from (and with!) everybody - cheers!

Hi Hank,

Welcome! That’s a great question and I can’t wait to see what everyone’s opinion here are.

I don’t have enough experience with white burgundies so I don’t feel like I can answer yet. But it’ll be an interesting thread for sure!

It really depends on which producer or which parts of Chablis or Beaune we are talking about.

The few key differences:

  • Chablis often sees very little to no (new) oak. Most producers use stainless steel for their entry level wines and oak barrels with their 1er Cru and Grand Cru-level wines. Some use oak all the way through. However, compared to any other white Burgundy regions, new oak is very seldom used, so the emphasis is much more on the fruit.
  • Chablis is a bit cooler region than the rest of Burgundy, so the fruit is more on the green apple and lemony citrus fruit side of the spectrum. Combine the minerality from the Kimmeridgian soil here, and you’ve got a lighter, leaner and more crisp style of Chardonnay with high acidity and very little to no obvious oak influence.
  • In Côte de Beaune the oak treatment can be anything from none to excessive, depending on the producer, the quality level and the appellation. Hard to say anything conclusive; however, often the wines show at least a bit more oak influence than Chablis.
  • The temperature is warmer than in Chablis, so the fruit spectrum can be a bit softer and sweeter: more ripe golden apples than tart green apples, maybe less citrus fruits and more white peach. Often but not always the style is creamy, but still more mineral than particularly rich. The best wines can perfectly combine crisp acidity and lean minerality with ripe, concentrated fruit and wonderful creamy richness.
  • Mâconnais, as a more southern region, tends to be riper and more tropical in style than Côte de Beaune. A bit less acidity, a bit more fruit - although this can also change from producer to producer and from village to village.
  • Compared to the rest of Mâconnais, Pouilly-Fuissé tends to be stylistically a bit more like Côte de Beaune, thanks to its partly granitic limestone soil, which emphasizes minerality and acidity. However, the vintages can make a huge difference, and the oak treatment varies heavily from producer to producer. While some Pouilly-Fuissés can be pretty great value for the money, that is not to say you couldn’t find Mâconnais wines of even greater finesse outside Pouilly-Fuissé.

However, these are just broad strokes. It’s always possible to find a very ripe and rich Chablis and a lean, mineral and austere Mâconnais if you dig deep enough.

Chardonnay is one of the great imposters when young. I am not sure you can tell sometimes. The oaking will really affect your senses more than anything else. Sometimes it is loaded with honeysuckle and you think it is a totally different grape. That being said, there are significant differences that sometimes you can note. When older, I have a better chance. I like what Otto has here as a generality.

There are only a couple of things I can think to add to this very informative post. I think Otto is focused on top producers with his comments about Mâcon and Pouilly-Fuissé. While these statements are certainly true of some wines, they might be misleading when it comes to others, especially the most common bottlings from big négociants. A lot of Mâcon and Mâcon-Villages do not show a very ripe fruit profile, not generally tropical, and are surprisingly similar to basic Chablis, with a bit less acidity and less minerality. Also, a lot of Pouilly-Fuissé from these same producers is not all that mineral, has quite a bit of fruit, and can be more reminiscent of a restrained style from somewhere like Sonoma Coast than something from the Côte de Beaune. This is especially in warm vintages, which are common now. Both of these styles are so common that I don’t think they can be considered exceptions.

Of course, there are always exceptions in the wine world. I’m really not disagreeing with Otto, but rather adding some breadth to his response.

The responses so far have been very helpful, I think. I agree with Doug’s caveat about less interesting producers’ Mâconnais wines: very high yields ripen slowly, so producers who overcrop can and do produce marginally ripe, brittle wines in the Mâconnais, which is a real pity. The winemaking at such addresses is also often similar to much winemaking in Chablis: machine harvesting, enzymatic clarification (or sometimes centrifuging of filtration), fermentation in tank, strict temperature control and selected yeasts, and then sterile filtration before bottling. Obviously, the producers we tend to talk about in both regions are happily the exceptions to the rule.

Will put down some more thoughts on differences between communes and climats later.

typificities

Great word. [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif]

Yeah–I would have been thinking typicities, but this one sounds a lot more official and legitimate. Welcome to the board, Hank.

Wow amazing replies from all! Thanks Otto, Doug, and William for the detailed responses. William, I look forward to hearing your additional thoughts!

For the best producers I think Otto is spot on.

One of the things I appreciated about this thread so far was that no one invoked the tired stereotypes of the villages (e.g. “rich and nutty Meursault”). Those stereotypes are very persistent, and often used as short-cuts to understanding Burgundy, but I think they seldom make much sense any more. In reality, I’m convinced that communal identities are as much commercial and social / cultural in their origins as they are terroir-derived.

On the commercial side, the négociants historically treated the villages as “brands”, and often “corrected” the wines to make them conform with the brand image: i.e. if a Pommard was a bit light and delicate, add some tannic wine from Maranges or further south; if a Meursault was a bit too mineral, add some Viré-Clessé; if a Chablis was a bit too rich, sell it as Puligny. I think that it’s an open secret that this continued well after the appellation system was established in the 1930s.

Historically, there are of course other factors that conspired to give the wines of one village a certain identity. Comparing Meursault and Puligny, for example, the water table is lower in Meursault, so there are lots of deep, cold cellars, adapted to long sur lie élevage in barrel; whereas in Puligny, there are no real underground cellars so élevage was historically shorter and more likely to include foudres and tanks. Villages would exchange vine material - witness Volnay, for example, where many producers used d’Angerville selections. Some villages such as Chassagne historically favored cordon pruning whereas others such as Puligny favored Guyot. And there was often a go-to source of winemaking advice in the village: back in the 1950s and ‘60s in Puligny, François Virot, for example; in Gevrey, it was Joseph Roty. Fifty years ago, I get the impression that the villages were much more inward-looking than they are today. Some producers didn’t even taste their neighbors’ wines, let alone the next village’s.

Today, if you want to do a long élevage in Puligny, you just install air conditioning and humidification. You are more likely to get your technical advice from a consultant such as Kyriakos (Consulting | Burgundia œnologie) or Michael Paetzold (http://michaelpaetzold.com/). Your points of reference will include wines from all along the Côte d’Or, as well as elsewhere. And rather than being dominated by négociant blends, which give a “mean” of an appellation, there are more and more smaller bottlings, giving us the chance to taste more an more lieux-dits on their own. That makes it abundantly clear how many exceptions there are to the stereotypical “rules”: e.g. mineral and ethereal Pommard Vignots and tensile and incisive Meursault Meix Chavaux.

My view is that all this has really exploded the old stereotypes that used to apply to different villages, revealing that it’s the “climat” and not the commune that’s the largest denominator of terroir. Moreover, I think it’s clear that an e.g. high altitude site with thin soils in Meursault (such as Vireuils) will have more in common with a high altitude site with thin soils in Puligny than it will with a low-lying site in Meursault with rich soils (such as l’Ormeau). In that sense, the terroir distinctions one can generalize divide the slope east to west, by altitude, rather than north to south, by commune! Of course, the uselessness of stereotypes only makes Burgundy more complicated to understand. But equally, it makes it even more fascinating. I hope that it will also open up increasing discursive space for due attention to the decisive influence of vine genetics, farming and winemaking—things that tend to be pushed under the carpet when we reduce whole villages to simple caricatures.

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As someone who knows zero about Burgundy, the impression I get from your post is that if you’re interested in the content of the bottles rather than the labels, current advances in winemaking make up for the increase in Burgundy prices. I say this in the sense that you’ll get great QPR as long as you’re willing to explore less historically regarded climats, because a lot of the factors that accounted for qualitative differences between climats no longer apply.

Very nice! Thanks