2019 German Riesling

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A.Gillette
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#51 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 3:22 pm

I will overdo it this year as usual. There are going to be some price increases I think, but the wines are still cheap on a relative basis. I will generally buy what I always do, but will probably go a little deeper than most years on Schloss Lieser and Fritz Haag based on what I’ve heard and read so far. And I plan to skip Donnhoff completely and reallocate elsewhere.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#52 Post by J. Rock » July 3rd, 2020, 3:49 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 11:28 am
Thought I'd resurrect this now that Part I of the MFW report on the vintage is out. What's everything planning to buy?
Before the any of the MFW reviews came I out, I preordered the following: Schloss Lieser Wehlener Sonnenuhr LGKA; Schloss Lieser Niederberg Helden LGKA; Schloss Lieser Brauneberg Juffer Sonnenuhr GKA; Fritz Haag Brauneberg Juffer Sonnenuhr GKA No. 9; Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle GKA; and Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle BA.

After reading MFW, I'm trying to add on a Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst GKA, but I imagine it's already sold out from this particular source.

I'll try to pick up some Spat, Kabs and a few dry Rieslings once everything hits the states.
J o r d a n

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#53 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 3:54 pm

I’ll be overdoing it this vintage as well, as price creep has me concerned as well. I’m worried some of my favorites may get too expensive in the near future (Willi Schaefer, and even JJ Prum come to mind) and others that are bargains right now, especially on the kabinett level, will start to rise.
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2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#54 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm

Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#55 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 5:58 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
You're also 25 years ahead of me ;)
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#56 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 6:25 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
Disagree. For Germany, I’d much rather be walking into the heart of my buying years right now versus twenty years ago. The current group of young producers revisiting forgotten sites, the return to classic kabinett and the increased focus on dry wines make this a much more exciting time to be a buyer in Germany than any other time in the past 25 years. But I’m sure glad I bought a ton burgundy over that time period.
Alex

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#57 Post by DanielP » July 3rd, 2020, 6:27 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:25 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
Disagree. For Germany, I’d much rather be walking into the heart of my buying years right now versus twenty years ago. The current group of young producers revisiting forgotten sites, the return to classic kabinett and the increased focus on dry wines make this a much more exciting time to be a buyer in Germany than any other time in the past 25 years. But I’m sure glad I bought a ton burgundy over that time period.
Talk about taking things out of context, jesus.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#58 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm

Who says I am not buying now? I just don’t worry if a wine passes me by. It will be there again in 12 months, with subtle differences.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#59 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 6:38 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm
Who says I am not buying now? I just don’t worry if a wine passes me by. It will be there again in 12 months, with subtle differences.
Maybe. It feels to me like a golden era, with climate change as the huge dark cloud on the horizon. I sense that vintage variation is sort of at an extreme right now. There is no eiswein, so if you’d passed on it as category in 2018 on the theory that more was around the corner, then you might be unhappy.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#60 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2020, 6:39 pm

Eiswein is not at all what it used to be, and that makes me sad. The golden age of Eiswein ended a while ago.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#61 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 6:42 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:39 pm
Eiswein is not at all what it used to be, and that makes me sad. The golden age of Eiswein ended a while ago.
That must be true as it is no longer produced and perhaps never will be again. Although I can’t say I’m too broken up about it. While there are exceptions (mainly with the word Prum on the bottle) I find it be relatively disappointing and not a candidate for cellar aging.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#62 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2020, 6:44 pm

Who needs to age it? Real, top Eiswein is a thrill the minute it hits the bottle.

Too much of recent Eiswein is marred by botrytis. I miss the great, clean Eisweins.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#63 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:25 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
Disagree. For Germany, I’d much rather be walking into the heart of my buying years right now versus twenty years ago. The current group of young producers revisiting forgotten sites, the return to classic kabinett and the increased focus on dry wines make this a much more exciting time to be a buyer in Germany than any other time in the past 25 years. But I’m sure glad I bought a ton burgundy over that time period.
My credit card hates you, but I don't champagne.gif
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#64 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 6:50 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm
Who says I am not buying now? I just don’t worry if a wine passes me by. It will be there again in 12 months, with subtle differences.
So true. I just worry about the pricing get worse as each year passes and may have a little FOMO.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#65 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 6:54 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:25 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Heh...good to have a 25 vintage stockpile...
Disagree. For Germany, I’d much rather be walking into the heart of my buying years right now versus twenty years ago. The current group of young producers revisiting forgotten sites, the return to classic kabinett and the increased focus on dry wines make this a much more exciting time to be a buyer in Germany than any other time in the past 25 years. But I’m sure glad I bought a ton burgundy over that time period.
My credit card hates you, but I don't champagne.gif
Brian - are you on the Howard Ripley distribution list? Doesn’t matter if you aren’t a UK buyer - you can still get the offers. You might enjoy taking a look at Sebastian Thomas’s notes on the vintage and the various wines. The offer came out today. Sebastian is not one to brag or seek attention, but when it comes to German wine expertise I’ve never met anyone in the same league. The kind of person that spending a few minutes talking German wine with and you’ve learned more than you could have on your own in years. His notes are free. I’m happy to send by PM if you have any trouble finding them.
Alex

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#66 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2020, 6:55 pm

There is a shit ton of delicious German Riesling. Even back in the 2001 vintage there were people who absolutely lost their minds that they didn’t get Wine A or Wine B*. Guess what, the pricing on both A and B is largely unchanged from then compared to inflation.

*someone, who still posts occasionally, accused Terry Theise of racketeering because he could not get 2001 Wine B.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#67 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 6:55 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:54 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:25 pm


Disagree. For Germany, I’d much rather be walking into the heart of my buying years right now versus twenty years ago. The current group of young producers revisiting forgotten sites, the return to classic kabinett and the increased focus on dry wines make this a much more exciting time to be a buyer in Germany than any other time in the past 25 years. But I’m sure glad I bought a ton burgundy over that time period.
My credit card hates you, but I don't champagne.gif
Brian - are you on the Howard Ripley distribution list? Doesn’t matter if you aren’t a UK buyer - you can still get the offers. You might enjoy taking a look at Sebastian Thomas’s notes on the vintage and the various wines. The offer came out today. Sebastian is not one to brag or seek attention, but when it comes to German wine expertise I’ve never met anyone in the same league. The kind of person that spending a few minutes talking German wine with and you’ve learned more than you could have on your own in years. His notes are free. I’m happy to send by PM if you have any trouble finding them.
I am on the list and saw the offering. I have a list of stuff I want to get from them but between tariffs and the possibility of VAT I need to see how Domaine (where I store my collection) coordinates overseas imports.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#68 Post by A.Gillette » July 3rd, 2020, 6:59 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:55 pm
A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:54 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm


My credit card hates you, but I don't champagne.gif
Brian - are you on the Howard Ripley distribution list? Doesn’t matter if you aren’t a UK buyer - you can still get the offers. You might enjoy taking a look at Sebastian Thomas’s notes on the vintage and the various wines. The offer came out today. Sebastian is not one to brag or seek attention, but when it comes to German wine expertise I’ve never met anyone in the same league. The kind of person that spending a few minutes talking German wine with and you’ve learned more than you could have on your own in years. His notes are free. I’m happy to send by PM if you have any trouble finding them.
I am on the list and saw the offering. I have a list of stuff I want to get from them but between tariffs and the possibility of VAT I need to see how Domaine (where I store my collection) coordinates overseas imports.
You won’t pay VAT. You will pay tariffs/import duties and state sales tax when you bring the wines in (if those things are applicable to you). Cost/benefit depends on where you are and how much you buy.
A
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#69 Post by David_K » July 3rd, 2020, 7:01 pm

I saw the MFW report. By all means, it looks like a nice vintage and I'll buy some. But I haven't seen anything to suggest this is a once-in-a-lifetime year. There have been a number of fine vintages lately and I have no doubt there will be more to come.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#70 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 3rd, 2020, 7:03 pm

A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:59 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:55 pm
A.Gillette wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 6:54 pm


Brian - are you on the Howard Ripley distribution list? Doesn’t matter if you aren’t a UK buyer - you can still get the offers. You might enjoy taking a look at Sebastian Thomas’s notes on the vintage and the various wines. The offer came out today. Sebastian is not one to brag or seek attention, but when it comes to German wine expertise I’ve never met anyone in the same league. The kind of person that spending a few minutes talking German wine with and you’ve learned more than you could have on your own in years. His notes are free. I’m happy to send by PM if you have any trouble finding them.
I am on the list and saw the offering. I have a list of stuff I want to get from them but between tariffs and the possibility of VAT I need to see how Domaine (where I store my collection) coordinates overseas imports.
You won’t pay VAT. You will pay tariffs/import duties and state sales tax when you bring the wines in (if those things are applicable to you). Cost/benefit depends on where you are and how much you buy.
A
I'm in MO. I know there's no VAT for Ripley to ship to Domaine's warehouse, but not sure if Domaine's warehouse is bonded. I figure if I'm buying cases of higher pradikat wines it's worth going this route.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#71 Post by Mike C. » July 8th, 2020, 7:27 pm

How about the 2019 Austrian vintage? What have people been hearing?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#72 Post by Howard Cooper » July 9th, 2020, 4:21 am

Alan Rath wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 5:21 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:09 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 1:34 pm


Just for my education, how so?

If Lara is saying it reminds them of 2015, I may hold off buying from them this vintage.
Johannes Selbach did talk about 2019 being very ripe. Not really my sort of vintage.
That would be consistent with 2015 (in my opinion, though I know some people love the vintage). 2001 had (on release) plenty of intensity, but nothing overly ripe/flabby, with tremendous acidity, and lovely, complex wines. 2015 (again IMO) is much riper, more fleshy, sometimes over the top. Just too much for my tastes. So if 2019 is anything like 2015, it's not a vintage I would chase, and (again IMO) not a vintage I think will age well. Though I have read it does have good acidity, which will help.
Interesting. I agree with you that 2001s on release had plenty of intensity, but I also thought that a number of them tasted flabby at that time. The structure showed through better over time as the fruit receded some. Is 2015 really lower acid than 2001?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#73 Post by Howard Cooper » July 9th, 2020, 4:23 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 8:10 am
Count me as an acid freak as that is what I love so much about Germany. I am hearing from winemakers that it is a vintage I will love and they know how much I value acid. Only one data point so far, Laurer Barrel X, all I can say is that it was intense and had everything you could imagine in an entry-level wine. Looking forward to trying more.
I also like acid in my wines. I loved the 1990s (and even some 1987s) and find 2010 to be a great vintage for Auslesen.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#74 Post by YLee » July 9th, 2020, 4:56 am

Mike C. wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 7:27 pm
How about the 2019 Austrian vintage? What have people been hearing?
It is supposedly "Legendary"
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#75 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 9th, 2020, 5:39 am

Mike C. wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 7:27 pm
How about the 2019 Austrian vintage? What have people been hearing?
https://www.skurnik.com/the-2019-austri ... ge-report/
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#76 Post by Mike C. » July 10th, 2020, 5:33 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:39 am
Mike C. wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 7:27 pm
How about the 2019 Austrian vintage? What have people been hearing?
https://www.skurnik.com/the-2019-austri ... ge-report/
YLee wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:56 am
Mike C. wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 7:27 pm
How about the 2019 Austrian vintage? What have people been hearing?
It is supposedly "Legendary"
Guessing both of you got the Flatiron offer. Was curious for additional views, personal experiences, etc.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#77 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 10th, 2020, 6:03 pm

Nope. I have my regular sources. I tell them what I want, and then it shows up.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#78 Post by DanielP » July 11th, 2020, 9:41 pm

I've been pleasantly surprised that the pricing has been in line with last year, at least through regular retail channels. I imagine everyone along the distribution channel is giving up a little to keep it that way.

Also, did not realize that Schloss Lieser is being imported by Skurnik now. Their distribution in NY was pretty awful for an estate of their caliber, so I'm looking forward seeing their wines more frequently on shelves.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#79 Post by Jay Miller » July 12th, 2020, 12:27 pm

I'm really conflicted on this. I've been on the verge of placing an order with Flatiron several times this past week and I keep reminding myself that I'm already at my self imposed maximum inventory.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#80 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 12th, 2020, 12:48 pm

With the lack of communication from Skurnik this year I have directed my advance purchases to producers from other portfolios.

Just ordered Vollenweider Kabinett and Spatlese this past week.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#81 Post by Charlie Carnes » July 12th, 2020, 1:31 pm

Just ordered a boat load. Mostly Pradikats from the usual suspects... Have already ordered a few in the last two weeks.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#82 Post by Greg K » July 12th, 2020, 2:12 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 12:27 pm
I'm really conflicted on this. I've been on the verge of placing an order with Flatiron several times this past week and I keep reminding myself that I'm already at my self imposed maximum inventory.
Jay, the correct solution is to sell me some of your current wine at low prices. [wink.gif] neener
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#83 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm

Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#84 Post by Howard Cooper » July 12th, 2020, 5:23 pm

DanielP wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:41 pm
I've been pleasantly surprised that the pricing has been in line with last year, at least through regular retail channels. I imagine everyone along the distribution channel is giving up a little to keep it that way.

Also, did not realize that Schloss Lieser is being imported by Skurnik now. Their distribution in NY was pretty awful for an estate of their caliber, so I'm looking forward seeing their wines more frequently on shelves.
Just had a 2015 Schloss Lieser Brauneberger Juffer last night. It was fabulous.
Howard

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#85 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 12th, 2020, 6:41 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 5:23 pm
DanielP wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:41 pm
I've been pleasantly surprised that the pricing has been in line with last year, at least through regular retail channels. I imagine everyone along the distribution channel is giving up a little to keep it that way.

Also, did not realize that Schloss Lieser is being imported by Skurnik now. Their distribution in NY was pretty awful for an estate of their caliber, so I'm looking forward seeing their wines more frequently on shelves.
Just had a 2015 Schloss Lieser Brauneberger Juffer last night. It was fabulous.
Kabi? Spat? Other?
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#86 Post by Howard Cooper » July 12th, 2020, 7:06 pm

Kabinett.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#87 Post by David_K » July 12th, 2020, 7:18 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm
Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
While some price creep is inevitable, I really don't see this as the year of a massive price explosion or unusual availability problems. I mean you can still find some of Schaefer's '15s and that vintage had way more hype than this one.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#88 Post by Ethan Abraham » July 13th, 2020, 4:02 am

Julian Haart prices seem to have gone up quite a bit in NYC market this year.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#89 Post by Robert Dentice » July 13th, 2020, 4:48 am

Ethan Abraham wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:02 am
Julian Haart prices seem to have gone up quite a bit in NYC market this year.

The amount coming to the U.S. is extremely small. One case, literally, one case of Auslese.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#90 Post by Robert Dentice » July 13th, 2020, 4:50 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm
Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
I can't imagine the ultimate price savings will be worth the time? Curious once the wine is finally landed and in your hands how much you will save. I only go abroad to get things I can't get here.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#91 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 13th, 2020, 5:16 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:50 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm
Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
I can't imagine the ultimate price savings will be worth the time? Curious once the wine is finally landed and in your hands how much you will save. I only go abroad to get things I can't get here.
It’s all from one location, and even when including the door-to-door cost it‘s a few bucks per bottle saved. I went with these specifically because I worry about availability (in particular for Willi Schafer) once it hits the U.S. and I’d need to buy it out of state anyway because St. Louis is kind of a wine desert. Any good quality German rieslings in stores here is $10 above national average typically.
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2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#92 Post by Howard Cooper » July 13th, 2020, 5:23 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:16 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:50 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm
Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
I can't imagine the ultimate price savings will be worth the time? Curious once the wine is finally landed and in your hands how much you will save. I only go abroad to get things I can't get here.
It’s all from one location, and even when including the door-to-door cost it‘s a few bucks per bottle saved. I went with these specifically because I worry about availability (in particular for Willi Schafer) once it hits the U.S. and I’d need to buy it out of state anyway because St. Louis is kind of a wine desert. Any good quality German rieslings in stores here is $10 above national average typically.
Brian,

How are you shipping the wine to the US. I have been able in the past to buy wine directly from wineries and wine stores in Burgundy and have them aggregated and shipped to the US using Cote d'Or Imports. https://www.cotedorpdx.com/ I would love to find something similar to Cote d'Or Imports in Germany. I am not sure whether something like this makes as much sense for German wines (other than more expensive wines) as it does in Burgundy where the cost of shipping often is offset in whole or in fairly large part by not having to pay VAT, but it would be interesting to find out.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on July 13th, 2020, 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#93 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 13th, 2020, 5:26 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:23 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:16 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:50 am


I can't imagine the ultimate price savings will be worth the time? Curious once the wine is finally landed and in your hands how much you will save. I only go abroad to get things I can't get here.
It’s all from one location, and even when including the door-to-door cost it‘s a few bucks per bottle saved. I went with these specifically because I worry about availability (in particular for Willi Schafer) once it hits the U.S. and I’d need to buy it out of state anyway because St. Louis is kind of a wine desert. Any good quality German rieslings in stores here is $10 above national average typically.
Brian,

How are you shipping the wine to the US. I have been able in the past to buy wine directly from wineries and wine stores in Burgundy and have them aggregated and shipped to the US using Cote d'Or Imports. https://www.cotedorpdx.com/ I would love to find something similar to Cote d'Or Imports in Germany.
It's through Domaine, as I store my collection there already.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#94 Post by Howard Cooper » July 13th, 2020, 5:27 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:26 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:23 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:16 am


It’s all from one location, and even when including the door-to-door cost it‘s a few bucks per bottle saved. I went with these specifically because I worry about availability (in particular for Willi Schafer) once it hits the U.S. and I’d need to buy it out of state anyway because St. Louis is kind of a wine desert. Any good quality German rieslings in stores here is $10 above national average typically.
Brian,

How are you shipping the wine to the US. I have been able in the past to buy wine directly from wineries and wine stores in Burgundy and have them aggregated and shipped to the US using Cote d'Or Imports. https://www.cotedorpdx.com/ I would love to find something similar to Cote d'Or Imports in Germany.
It's through Domaine, as I store my collection there already.
Thanks. I store my wine at home in my basement wine cellar.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#95 Post by Ian S » July 13th, 2020, 5:29 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 6:13 pm
Careful. 1976 remains a fantastic vintage. 2003 is turning into something completely different than what it was on release.

People write off vintages, much to their later dismay.
I'm with David on this one - 2003 is becoming a fun vintage to drink.

And yes, there are a rash of panned vintages that critics thought should be tossed in the dustbin, only to become very good with time in the cellar.

ps - David: Nice avatar! Is there a story behind your choice of the grouch?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#96 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 13th, 2020, 5:31 am

Ian S wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:29 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 6:13 pm
Careful. 1976 remains a fantastic vintage. 2003 is turning into something completely different than what it was on release.

People write off vintages, much to their later dismay.
I'm with David on this one - 2003 is becoming a fun vintage to drink.

And yes, there are a rash of panned vintages that critics thought should be tossed in the dustbin, only to become very good with time in the cellar.

ps - David: Nice avatar! Is there a story behind your choice of the grouch?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=171302
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#97 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 13th, 2020, 6:23 am

Exactly Ian. 2003 is not the only vintage that has been largely left for dead.

2011 is another, and at the low end (estate Rieslings, Kabinett) it is just starting to round into form. The higher pradikats will need more time. Of course it was always a fine dry wine vintage.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#98 Post by Ian S » July 13th, 2020, 7:20 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:31 am
Ian S wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:29 am
ps - David: Nice avatar! Is there a story behind your choice of the grouch?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=171302
Cheeky! [rofl.gif]
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 6:23 am
Exactly Ian. 2003 is not the only vintage that has been largely left for dead.

2011 is another, and at the low end (estate Rieslings, Kabinett) it is just starting to round into form. The higher pradikats will need more time. Of course it was always a fine dry wine vintage.
2003 was handled very nicely by many producers at several Pradikat levels, particularly JJ Prüm's Auslesens and Richter's Spatlesens (and to a lesser extent their Kabinetts).

2011 is another one I agree with you on. While I don't prefer it to 2012, I like it better than 2010 in most instances. JJ Prüm, Selbach-Oster, and Shafer-Frölich stand out to me for that year.
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Alan Eden - the "Crazy Uncle" Berserker [berserker.gif] and Master Pot Stirrer [stirthepothal.gif] forever!

"I swear to god, I've never seen so many whiny bitches in one place in my life." - Steve Saxon, 01/30/18
"Moral superiority can taste awfully good to some." - David Kantrowitz, 05/29/19

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#99 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 13th, 2020, 7:45 am

Ian S wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 7:20 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:31 am
Ian S wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:29 am
ps - David: Nice avatar! Is there a story behind your choice of the grouch?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=171302
Cheeky! [rofl.gif]
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 6:23 am
Exactly Ian. 2003 is not the only vintage that has been largely left for dead.

2011 is another, and at the low end (estate Rieslings, Kabinett) it is just starting to round into form. The higher pradikats will need more time. Of course it was always a fine dry wine vintage.
2003 was handled very nicely by many producers at several Pradikat levels, particularly JJ Prüm's Auslesens and Richter's Spatlesens (and to a lesser extent their Kabinetts).

2011 is another one I agree with you on. While I don't prefer it to 2012, I like it better than 2010 in most instances. JJ Prüm, Selbach-Oster, and Shafer-Frölich stand out to me for that year.
I thought the 2003 JJ Prum Auslese were quite nice when tasted at the estate. Different, but enjoyable. Might need to try to seek out some of the older Richter Spatlese.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#100 Post by DanielP » July 13th, 2020, 8:36 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:16 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:50 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 4:25 pm
Just placed an order request for some Willi Schaefer and Zilliken abroad. I worry about pricing on the former once it's actually in the U.S.
I can't imagine the ultimate price savings will be worth the time? Curious once the wine is finally landed and in your hands how much you will save. I only go abroad to get things I can't get here.
It’s all from one location, and even when including the door-to-door cost it‘s a few bucks per bottle saved. I went with these specifically because I worry about availability (in particular for Willi Schafer) once it hits the U.S. and I’d need to buy it out of state anyway because St. Louis is kind of a wine desert. Any good quality German rieslings in stores here is $10 above national average typically.
If I could swing it then I would buy everything in the UK. Howard Ripley's price and availability puts everything in the US to shame.
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