2019 German Riesling

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Brian G r a f s t r o m
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#251 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:32 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:25 am
The MSR dry wines (Kabi, Spätlese, Auslese Trocken and GG) can be amazingly great
From e.g. Grünhaus, Karthaüserhof, Von Othegraven, Zilliken, Lieser, Shaefer, Loewen, Molitor etc
Kabinett Trocken from the MSR has become my perfect wine. Don't get me wrong I still love riper GGs I just love when the Kabinett Trocken style is done right.
...
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#252 Post by A.Gillette » September 30th, 2020, 10:47 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:32 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:25 am
The MSR dry wines (Kabi, Spätlese, Auslese Trocken and GG) can be amazingly great
From e.g. Grünhaus, Karthaüserhof, Von Othegraven, Zilliken, Lieser, Shaefer, Loewen, Molitor etc
Kabinett Trocken from the MSR has become my perfect wine. Don't get me wrong I still love riper GGs I just love when the Kabinett Trocken style is done right.
...
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
I think they have to be at least spatlese-level in must weight.
Alex

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#253 Post by Arjan Stavast » September 30th, 2020, 10:52 am

Just saw Jancis’ scores for the 2019 GGs. Was quite surprised by how low they are, given the high praise from others. Some examples:
Rebholz Kastanienbusch (17)
Schäfer Fröhlich Felseneck (17.5)
Von Schubert Abtsberg (16+)
Wittmann Morstein (16.5+)
Whilst these are in itself fine scores and Jancis typically scores a bit more modest than others, I find the gap really quite big this year. Also bearing in mind all the hype about the vintage.
Any views?
Importer of Sophienwald and Code38 in the Netherlands. Big lover of German Riesling and Spätburgunder as well as Loire Chenin Blanc.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#254 Post by Claus Jeppesen » September 30th, 2020, 11:32 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:32 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:25 am
The MSR dry wines (Kabi, Spätlese, Auslese Trocken and GG) can be amazingly great
From e.g. Grünhaus, Karthaüserhof, Von Othegraven, Zilliken, Lieser, Shaefer, Loewen, Molitor etc
Kabinett Trocken from the MSR has become my perfect wine. Don't get me wrong I still love riper GGs I just love when the Kabinett Trocken style is done right.

I recently used a music analogy to describe a 2019 Hofgut Falkenstein Kabinett Trocken that I believe was attributed to Mozart:

"The music is not in the notes, but in the silence between" THIS is Kabi Trocken to me.
Yes Robert, Falkenstein is the obvious candidate. In fact my favourite
But mature Kabi trocken from Von Schubert are also fantastic
Claus

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Martin Zwick
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#255 Post by Martin Zwick » October 1st, 2020, 12:04 am

Arjan Stavast wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:52 am
Just saw Jancis’ scores for the 2019 GGs. Was quite surprised by how low they are, given the high praise from others. Some examples:
Rebholz Kastanienbusch (17)
Schäfer Fröhlich Felseneck (17.5)
Von Schubert Abtsberg (16+)
Wittmann Morstein (16.5+)
Whilst these are in itself fine scores and Jancis typically scores a bit more modest than others, I find the gap really quite big this year. Also bearing in mind all the hype about the vintage.
Any views?

Arjan,


I can confirm these impressions by the taster of Jancis Robinson (Julia Harding?). We made a GG-Tasting of 22 GGs by the vintage 2019 on 18th September. And several GGs were not convincing in my view, this view was shared by all the taster on our tasting. BTW, it was a blind tasting.

Clearly, the GGs are not as homogenous as I thought based on my impressions from the terrific Ortsweine which I tasted in spring/summer. My recommendation for you, it was the darling of every taster at our tasting incl. me, 2019 Dönnhoff "Hermannshöhle" GG.

Bottom-line, I still think that 2019 is a special vintage.


Greetings from Berlin,
Martin
Last edited by Martin Zwick on October 1st, 2020, 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#256 Post by Arjan Stavast » October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am

Thanks Martin! From what I’ve tasted so far, it’s fairly heterogenous indeed. Still from the examples I quoted, I would have expected slightly higher scores, given vineyards and reputations. The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself). The highest scoring GG was Emrich Schönleber’s Halenberg with 18+.

Again, nice score but not phenomenal, if I read Stuart Pigott / James Suckling (“ The 2019 vintage is the best vintage I have ever tasted for German riesling in my four-decade career.“) and Stephan Reinhardt / Robert Parker (“ I consider the vintage as exceptional in terms of quality and styles. ”).

Just find it all a bit inconsistent I guess.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#257 Post by Martin Zwick » October 1st, 2020, 2:48 am

Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself).
Good to know, as I am not a subscriber of the Jancis Robinson newsletter or board.

Last but not least, for me the real stars are the Ortsweine in 2019, high-quality, available and relatively cheap, around 13-18 Euro in Germany. And don't forget, the quantity of GGs is low and outside of Germany not easy to get.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#258 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » October 1st, 2020, 8:41 am

Martin Zwick wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:48 am
Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself).
Good to know, as I am not a subscriber of the Jancis Robinson newsletter or board.

Last but not least, for me the real stars are the Ortsweine in 2019, high-quality, available and relatively cheap, around 13-18 Euro in Germany. And don't forget, the quantity of GGs is low and outside of Germany not easy to get.
Great to hear, as Ortsweine are usually my "sweet spot" for dry Riesling.
Cheers,
Paul

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#259 Post by Martin Zwick » October 1st, 2020, 9:22 am

P@u1_M3nk3s wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 8:41 am
Martin Zwick wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:48 am
Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself).
Good to know, as I am not a subscriber of the Jancis Robinson newsletter or board.

Last but not least, for me the real stars are the Ortsweine in 2019, high-quality, available and relatively cheap, around 13-18 Euro in Germany. And don't forget, the quantity of GGs is low and outside of Germany not easy to get.
Great to hear, as Ortsweine are usually my "sweet spot" for dry Riesling.

P.S. in addition they are quite open and charming right now. So, open it now and you will enjoy it.
„ When this is all over, nobody will admit to ever having supported it“

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#260 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 1st, 2020, 9:22 am

Martin Zwick wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:48 am
Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself).
Good to know, as I am not a subscriber of the Jancis Robinson newsletter or board.

Last but not least, for me the real stars are the Ortsweine in 2019, high-quality, available and relatively cheap, around 13-18 Euro in Germany. And don't forget, the quantity of GGs is low and outside of Germany not easy to get.
Actually, now that I'm looking, I get a reasonable offering of GGs here in California. True, it's prearrival, and won't see them for a few months.
Last edited by Barry L i p t o n on October 1st, 2020, 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#261 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 1st, 2020, 9:29 am

Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
Thanks Martin! From what I’ve tasted so far, it’s fairly heterogenous indeed. Still from the examples I quoted, I would have expected slightly higher scores, given vineyards and reputations. The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself). The highest scoring GG was Emrich Schönleber’s Halenberg with 18+.

Again, nice score but not phenomenal, if I read Stuart Pigott / James Suckling (“ The 2019 vintage is the best vintage I have ever tasted for German riesling in my four-decade career.“) and Stephan Reinhardt / Robert Parker (“ I consider the vintage as exceptional in terms of quality and styles. ”).

Just find it all a bit inconsistent I guess.
Schaefer-Frohlich rated a point lower on the Halenberg and Frühlingsplätzchen vs. 2018. sp mpt kist because she scores low. (Ditto for Donnhoff Hermannshole 2019 vs. 2018).

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#262 Post by David Glasser » October 2nd, 2020, 10:09 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 12:31 pm
Martin Zwick wrote:
September 1st, 2020, 12:23 am
Here some more impressions by Stephan Reinhardt/WA based on the VDP-PreTasting of GG 2019 and Spätburgunder GG 2018 in Wiesbaden last week, around 300 wines. It’s in german, please use a Google translator.


https://m.faz.net/aktuell/stil/essen-tr ... 28305.html
How do you say "paywall" in German?

Hope you're feeling better Martin.
I’m not getting a paywall, just a cookies notice. Here’s a link to Google Translate's English version.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 28305.html

Thank you, Martin, and glad to hear you’re well.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#263 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » October 2nd, 2020, 11:08 am

Good source for different classifications https://www.vdp.de/en/the-wines/classification
Pretty basic but provides links to growers via a map.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#264 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 2nd, 2020, 4:48 pm

Crush offered some Lauer Fass 4. I am a Lauer skeptic, but grabbed some to try again.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#265 Post by Kirk.Grant » October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:32 am
Claus Jeppesen wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:25 am
The MSR dry wines (Kabi, Spätlese, Auslese Trocken and GG) can be amazingly great
From e.g. Grünhaus, Karthaüserhof, Von Othegraven, Zilliken, Lieser, Shaefer, Loewen, Molitor etc
Kabinett Trocken from the MSR has become my perfect wine. Don't get me wrong I still love riper GGs I just love when the Kabinett Trocken style is done right.
...
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
Most of them come in around 13-14%
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#266 Post by Paul McCourt » October 2nd, 2020, 5:31 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 4:48 pm
Crush offered some Lauer Fass 4. I am a Lauer skeptic, but grabbed some to try again.
I am on the fence. I seemed to like them more a few years back but not so much lately. Maybe my tastes are changing. I ordered just a few of their 19's pretty much to see what they are up to.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#267 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 2nd, 2020, 5:31 pm

Martin Zwick wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:48 am
Arjan Stavast wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 2:19 am
The Hermannshöhle got 18 points from Jancis (she tasted herself).
Good to know, as I am not a subscriber of the Jancis Robinson newsletter or board.

Last but not least, for me the real stars are the Ortsweine in 2019, high-quality, available and relatively cheap, around 13-18 Euro in Germany. And don't forget, the quantity of GGs is low and outside of Germany not easy to get.
Exactly. Have a couple of cases worth headed my way.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#268 Post by Andrew K. » October 2nd, 2020, 5:37 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
Most of them come in around 13-14%
Ripeness is not necessarily indicated by alcohol level.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#269 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » October 2nd, 2020, 5:43 pm

Andrew K. wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
Most of them come in around 13-14%
Ripeness is not necessarily indicated by alcohol level.
Since GGs are vinified dry I’d appreciate your explaining your assertion.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#270 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 2nd, 2020, 6:08 pm

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:43 pm
Andrew K. wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm


Most of them come in around 13-14%
Ripeness is not necessarily indicated by alcohol level.
Since GGs are vinified dry I’d appreciate your explaining your assertion.
He’s wrong.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#271 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 2nd, 2020, 6:11 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:32 am


Kabinett Trocken from the MSR has become my perfect wine. Don't get me wrong I still love riper GGs I just love when the Kabinett Trocken style is done right.
...
What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
Most of them come in around 13-14%
Is that what most Auslesen would ferment-out to, if allowed to go as dry as GGs?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#272 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 2nd, 2020, 6:28 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 6:11 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:45 am


What ripeness are GGs normally at? Auslese? Or is there no "normal"?
Most of them come in around 13-14%
Is that what most Auslesen would ferment-out to, if allowed to go as dry as GGs?
Auslese these days covers a wide range of ripeness. If at lower levels it would be more like 12%.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#273 Post by Andrew K. » October 3rd, 2020, 6:36 am

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:43 pm
Andrew K. wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Ripeness is not necessarily indicated by alcohol level.
Since GGs are vinified dry I’d appreciate your explaining your assertion.
I'm just talking about that you can have a Spat, Trocken and GG produced from the same grapes with different alcohol levels.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#274 Post by Rob_S » October 3rd, 2020, 7:32 am

Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 6:36 am
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:43 pm
Andrew K. wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Ripeness is not necessarily indicated by alcohol level.
Since GGs are vinified dry I’d appreciate your explaining your assertion.
I'm just talking about that you can have a Spat, Trocken and GG produced from the same grapes with different alcohol levels.
But at different RS. The inherent sugar of the same grapes will either convert to alcohol or stay sugar.
utherland

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#275 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 3rd, 2020, 9:05 am

Aren’t both Trochen and GG vinifird dry?

If the have different alcohol levels, and the are from the same grape, doesn’t that say you can’t tell the ripeness of the grape by alcohol content? It is there a conversion scale for trochen that’s different from GG?

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#276 Post by Andrew K. » October 3rd, 2020, 10:45 am

Rob_S wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 7:32 am
Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 6:36 am
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 5:43 pm

Since GGs are vinified dry I’d appreciate your explaining your assertion.
I'm just talking about that you can have a Spat, Trocken and GG produced from the same grapes with different alcohol levels.
But at different RS. The inherent sugar of the same grapes will either convert to alcohol or stay sugar.
Exactly my point. You can't just talk alcohol levels without also mentioning RS. If you assume RS is close to 0 then you can approximate the alcohol level of given grapes.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#277 Post by Andrew K. » October 3rd, 2020, 10:46 am

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 9:05 am
Aren’t both Trochen and GG vinifird dry?
AFAIK Trocken isn't actually regulated so it can be used for lots of different styles depending on the producer.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#278 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » October 3rd, 2020, 10:53 am

Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:45 am
Rob_S wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 7:32 am
Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 6:36 am


I'm just talking about that you can have a Spat, Trocken and GG produced from the same grapes with different alcohol levels.
But at different RS. The inherent sugar of the same grapes will either convert to alcohol or stay sugar.
Exactly my point. You can't just talk alcohol levels without also mentioning RS. If you assume RS is close to 0 then you can approximate the alcohol level of given grapes.
The post you replied to was about GG, always vinified dry. That may not have been obvious, I don’t think the whole conversation was contained in the post you replied to. Thanks to you I looked up some of Jamie Goode’s writing on ripeness.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#279 Post by DanielP » October 3rd, 2020, 11:05 am

This must be what mansplaining feels like from the other side
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#280 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » October 3rd, 2020, 12:44 pm

Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:46 am
Barry L i p t o n wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 9:05 am
Aren’t both Trochen and GG vinifird dry?
AFAIK Trocken isn't actually regulated so it can be used for lots of different styles depending on the producer.
But, if my understanding is correct, it must be ~9g/L or less to be labeled trocken.
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#281 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 3rd, 2020, 1:23 pm

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:53 am
Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:45 am
Rob_S wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 7:32 am

But at different RS. The inherent sugar of the same grapes will either convert to alcohol or stay sugar.
Exactly my point. You can't just talk alcohol levels without also mentioning RS. If you assume RS is close to 0 then you can approximate the alcohol level of given grapes.
The post you replied to was about GG, always vinified dry. That may not have been obvious, I don’t think the whole conversation was contained in the post you replied to. Thanks to you I looked up some of Jamie Goode’s writing on ripeness.
Does vinified dry mean RS close to 0? I didn't think so. If RS can vary by up to 5% or more between GGs, Andrew's point still stands even just for GGs.

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#282 Post by Ethan Abraham » October 3rd, 2020, 1:31 pm

Technical question - how much abv increase would you get per g/l of residual sugar the ends up fermenting? Ie if you had a 5g/l gg with 12% abv, what would abv be if it were fermented fully dry?

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#283 Post by DanielP » October 3rd, 2020, 2:18 pm

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 1:23 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:53 am
Andrew K. wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:45 am


Exactly my point. You can't just talk alcohol levels without also mentioning RS. If you assume RS is close to 0 then you can approximate the alcohol level of given grapes.
The post you replied to was about GG, always vinified dry. That may not have been obvious, I don’t think the whole conversation was contained in the post you replied to. Thanks to you I looked up some of Jamie Goode’s writing on ripeness.
Does vinified dry mean RS close to 0? I didn't think so. If RS can vary by up to 5% or more between GGs, Andrew's point still stands even just for GGs.
Andrew's point hardly matters. GGs typically are going to range 3-7 g/L, with the absolute upper limit going to ~10. Within those confines, residual sugar would only account for a few tenths of a percent of ABV. The ripeness of the grape and the starting sugar level matters far more than whether you ferment to 3 g/L or 9 g/L.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#284 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 3rd, 2020, 3:33 pm

Ethan Abraham wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 1:31 pm
Technical question - how much abv increase would you get per g/l of residual sugar the ends up fermenting? Ie if you had a 5g/l gg with 12% abv, what would abv be if it were fermented fully dry?
Maybe 12.2%.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#285 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 3rd, 2020, 3:37 pm

As an example, a 100 degrees oeschle must (solid Auslese) gets you about 23 brix. That gets you about 12.5% alcohol with a standard fermentation.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#286 Post by Rob_S » October 3rd, 2020, 6:34 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 3:37 pm
As an example, a 100 degrees oeschle must (solid Auslese) gets you about 23 brix. That gets you about 12.5% alcohol with a standard fermentation.
So are GG's getting picked at BA level to ferment down to 13%+?
utherland

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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#287 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 3rd, 2020, 6:43 pm

Rob_S wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 6:34 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 3:37 pm
As an example, a 100 degrees oeschle must (solid Auslese) gets you about 23 brix. That gets you about 12.5% alcohol with a standard fermentation.
So are GG's getting picked at BA level to ferment down to 13%+?
BA at 115 oeschle is closer to 26 Brix if I am doing the math correctly in my head. That gets you into the mid 14s.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#288 Post by J. Rock » October 3rd, 2020, 8:32 pm

Also, aren't most moderns BAs closer to 150ish oeschle, while a lot of modern GKAs are 115ish? So, the GGs are probably about Auslese grapes, depending on the producer?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#289 Post by joz€f p1nxten » October 7th, 2020, 3:16 am

Hi all, I am planning to spend a day in the Saar region at the end of October. We were planning to visit Geltz Zilliken, Peter Lauer and Hofgut Falkenstein. Of these 3, I have only the wines of the latter estate in my cellar. The other 2 were also recommended here.

A few questions:
- I have been to a few estates before in the Mosel, but there seem to be 2 types of visits: one where you can have an interesting discussion either in the cellar or else at a table (I fondly remember a great visit at Karthauserhof years ago) and one where you are in a tasting room together with other people and sometimes need to pay. Would you think that you steer the visit to the former if you contact them well in advance? If not, no issue.
- we might have time for a 4th estate if the visits are only in a tasting room - any tips in the Saar region?
- End of October is a good period to visit Burgundy (I have much more experience there), but is it to visit the Saar, as they pick later?
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#290 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 7th, 2020, 4:29 am

J. Rock wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 8:32 pm
Also, aren't most moderns BAs closer to 150ish oeschle, while a lot of modern GKAs are 115ish? So, the GGs are probably about Auslese grapes, depending on the producer?
Yes. GGs tend to qualify at Auslese ripeness. As for what gets released at GKA and what is BA, it is indeed very producer specific. Not everyone does gold cap wines for one thing.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#291 Post by SOvery » October 7th, 2020, 5:39 am

joz€f p1nxten wrote:
October 7th, 2020, 3:16 am
Hi all, I am planning to spend a day in the Saar region at the end of October. We were planning to visit Geltz Zilliken, Peter Lauer and Hofgut Falkenstein. Of these 3, I have only the wines of the latter estate in my cellar. The other 2 were also recommended here.

A few questions:
- I have been to a few estates before in the Mosel, but there seem to be 2 types of visits: one where you can have an interesting discussion either in the cellar or else at a table (I fondly remember a great visit at Karthauserhof years ago) and one where you are in a tasting room together with other people and sometimes need to pay. Would you think that you steer the visit to the former if you contact them well in advance? If not, no issue.
- we might have time for a 4th estate if the visits are only in a tasting room - any tips in the Saar region?
- End of October is a good period to visit Burgundy (I have much more experience there), but is it to visit the Saar, as they pick later?
Lauer has a very modern tasting room. No fees (from what I remember). 'Wine and Bonsai' shop in Saarburg town may be worth a visit to taste a wider sweep of producers. Van Volexm's new winery was being built when I was there last, but looking at it I'd imagine a good tasting room is operational by now. No idea about Von Othegraven's tasting facilities, but the wine is great.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#292 Post by Robert Dentice » October 7th, 2020, 6:45 am

joz€f p1nxten wrote:
October 7th, 2020, 3:16 am
Hi all, I am planning to spend a day in the Saar region at the end of October. We were planning to visit Geltz Zilliken, Peter Lauer and Hofgut Falkenstein. Of these 3, I have only the wines of the latter estate in my cellar. The other 2 were also recommended here.

A few questions:
- I have been to a few estates before in the Mosel, but there seem to be 2 types of visits: one where you can have an interesting discussion either in the cellar or else at a table (I fondly remember a great visit at Karthauserhof years ago) and one where you are in a tasting room together with other people and sometimes need to pay. Would you think that you steer the visit to the former if you contact them well in advance? If not, no issue.
- we might have time for a 4th estate if the visits are only in a tasting room - any tips in the Saar region?
- End of October is a good period to visit Burgundy (I have much more experience there), but is it to visit the Saar, as they pick later?
I assume you have appointments? You will have a great visit at Hofgut Falkenstein. If you schedule an appointment and get to do it with Florian you will also have a great visit. I also recommend the restaurant and hotel (very small) at Lauer.

Other suggestions.

Van Volxem - the antithesis of Falkenstein and Lauer but so close if you have the time it is probably worth it. I don't know what they pour in the tasting room.

Egon Muller - if you have industry contacts and can get an appointment it is one of the most lovely visits in all of the wine world.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#293 Post by joz€f p1nxten » October 7th, 2020, 7:05 am

Thank you Steve and Robert for the additional suggestions.

Might look into "Wine and Bonsai" & the restaurant at Lauer.

To answer Robert's question: I am currently confirming appointments indeed.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#294 Post by dvansteenderen » October 7th, 2020, 2:14 pm

Another vote for visiting Egon Müller if you can get in...Great wines! Also, you could check out Maximin Grünhaus? They nailed the 2019s.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#295 Post by SOvery » October 7th, 2020, 2:32 pm

I forgot to add that Dr Wagner is a good visit near the centre of Saarburg and if you want to speak to the winzer, Christiane Wagner does a lot of the tastings there.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#296 Post by JohnP » October 7th, 2020, 3:00 pm

I recently read the great press on the 2019 vintage and took a flyer on few 2019 Dönnhoff Dellchen Riesling Großes Gewächs. I have zero Riesling in my collection, but I've always loved mineral-driven whites with some ripeness. If you've tried this wine, I'd love to hear thoughts.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#297 Post by RyanC » October 7th, 2020, 7:19 pm

Just picked up a case of ‘19 Falkenstein and some ‘19 W. Schaefer. I need to take a break from buying wine.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#298 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 7th, 2020, 7:28 pm

RyanC wrote:
October 7th, 2020, 7:19 pm
Just picked up a case of ‘19 Falkenstein and some ‘19 W. Schaefer. I need to take a break from buying wine.
No you don't; that's only, like, 4 bottles of Burgundy! [wow.gif] champagne.gif
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#299 Post by joz€f p1nxten » October 8th, 2020, 4:22 am

dvansteenderen wrote:
October 7th, 2020, 2:14 pm
Another vote for visiting Egon Müller if you can get in...Great wines! Also, you could check out Maximin Grünhaus? They nailed the 2019s.
If you can get me into Egon Muller (you seem to import them), I am happy to make a small detour :-).

On Maximin Grünhaus, I am trying to focus on the Saar to keep the travel distance minimal. It's a bit closer to Trier than the others I have planned.
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Re: 2019 German Riesling

#300 Post by martinl » October 10th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Jancis Robinson raved about the 2019 Rielsing vintage in her Financial Times column on Oct. 2: https://www.ft.com/content/a79fe48e-e47 ... 04b2014385 (sorry for the paywall).

The column headline is "Why Riesling is the greatest white wine grape". (-:
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