TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

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TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#1 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am

SECOND ZOOM TASTING – CHAVE HERMITAGE - Mi Casa (5/20/2020)

This was the second zoom tasting that David E. organized. The theme was Chave Hermitage which is one of my top ten favorite wines. Since it was six this time, RJ generous got me a box of 4oz bottles from Amazon. Six of us met in front of the Ritz Carlton Tysons Corner and exchange the bottles in the afternoon. We had a two hour zoom session which was both educational and fun.

Image
Hermitage Blanc
The critics love Chave Hermitage blanc yet there is a very little demand. It can be impressive upon release then it goes through a long dumb/less expressive phase only to blossom in a couple of decades. This is Leoville Las Cases of white wine, i.e. impossible to figure out when to open.
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Medium expressive nose displaying slightly coiled rich yellow fruit, white peach, dry pineapple, lemon oil, strong honey, salt toffee, a hint of anise, spicy spices, lanoline and wet stone. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of dense yellow fruit, rich, creamy and unctuous, medium acidity yet strong mineral expression provides a very good balance and precision, and a medium to long coiled yellow fruit driven finish with sea salt and honey at the end. There is a hint of heat. It is an incredibly concentrated and very serious wine, perhaps too serious. I have no clue when this will reach the peak. Intellectually stimulating but not much fun. (95 pts.)
  • 2010 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    A bit more expressive than the 09, rich white and yellow fruit, a hint of fresh lemon, yellow peach, light honey, lanoline, white flowers, salt, sap, spicy spices and limestone. Excellent concentration, very finely layered concentrated yellow fruit, rich and oily, exceptional balance and precision, medium acidity, strong mineral and a long concentrated white and yellow fruit driven finish with lanolin and honey at the end. This is another pretty serious wine but with a bit of playfulness. (96 pts.)
Hermitage Rouge
hey were all so expressive yet also so different which was fascinating. The 97 was remarkably Burgundian. The 05 will be a legend one day!
  • 1989 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Intoxicating incredibly complex nose displaying mature red fruit, strawberry, a hint of dry cherry, black olive, grilled fatty steak, a hint of soy, leather, sous bois, brown sugar, anise, perfume, cinnamon and limestone. Fully integrated Burgundian palate, very finely layered mature red fruit, silky, precise and slightly lean, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral, and a seamless long mature red fruit driven finish with perfume and tapenade at the end. This is an incredibly complex Chave hermitage that is drinking incredibly well.beautifully. Perhaps the best recent example. (98 pts.)
  • 1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Perfectly mature nose displaying subtle yet bright red fruit, strawberry, very clean not showing neither olive nor grilled meat, white pepper, dry orange peel, strong mint, cinnamon and mineral. Beautifully integrated palate, finely layered subtle red fruit, rich yet slightly lean and precise, bright acidity and strong mineral, and a medium long subtle red fruit driven finish with mint and cinnamon at the end. This is very Burgundian, especially towards to the end of the evening. Not the most complex wine but incredibly delicious! (94 pts.)
  • 2001 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Very youthful expressive nose displaying concentrated black fruit, black cherry, blueberry pie, brown sugar, beef stew, dark spices and iron mineral. Excellent concentration, packed opulent black fruit, rich and chewy, bright acidity, strong iron mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with dark spice at the end. It hasn’t developed much tertiary notes and can easily develop for another decade or more. Really impressive…..until the 05 shows up. (95 pts.)
  • 2005 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Incredibly youthful expressive nose displaying perfectly ripe concentrated black fruit, blackberry jam, crushed blackberry, blackberry liqueur, black cherry, liquid smoke, lavender, perfume, licorice, sweet spices, garrigue and crushed rocks. Exceptional concentration and incredible balance, beautifully layered perfectly ripe sweet black fruit, incredibly rich yet silky and fluid, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral and a seamless concentrated black fruit driven finish with garrigue and liquid smoke at the end. Despite being so concentrated and youthful, the palate is sensual and weightless which reminds me the 01 Yquem. For my palate, the 05 is the best Chave Hermitage. Monumental wine! (99 pts.)
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive primary nose displaying massive black and blue fruit, blackberry liqueur, blueberry pie, licorice, grille lamb chop, lavender, baking spices and mineral. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of ripe black fruit, rich and dense, medium acidity, strong limestone mineral and a long ripe blue and black fruit driven finish. This is a massive ripe Chave that has a slight resembles to the 05. Although expressive, it can easily improve for two decades or more. (97 pts.)
  • 2012 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive nose displaying black fruit, blackberry jam, black berry, tapenade, a hint of garrigue already, rose and mineral. Excellent concentration, packed concentrated black fruit, rich and opulent, yet silky and fresh, bright acidity, strong mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with grilled meat and tapenade at the end. It shows more tertiary notes that the 05 and 09. Stylistically, it reminds me the 01 a bit, i.e. surprisingly concentrated with generous fruit. (95 pts.)
The reds reaffirmed my belief that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
Posted from CellarTracker

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#2 Post by Scott Brunson » May 23rd, 2020, 6:06 am

k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am
SECOND ZOOM TASTING – CHAVE HERMITAGE - Mi Casa (5/20/2020)

This was the second zoom tasting that David E. organized. The theme was Chave Hermitage which is one of my top ten favorite wines. Since it was six this time, RJ generous got me a box of 4oz bottles from Amazon. Six of us met in front of the Ritz Carlton Tysons Corner and exchange the bottles in the afternoon. We had a two hour zoom session which was both educational and fun.

Image
Hermitage Blanc
The critics love Chave Hermitage blanc yet there is a very little demand. It can be impressive upon release then it goes through a long dumb/less expressive phase only to blossom in a couple of decades. This is Leoville Las Cases of white wine, i.e. impossible to figure out when to open.
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Medium expressive nose displaying slightly coiled rich yellow fruit, white peach, dry pineapple, lemon oil, strong honey, salt toffee, a hint of anise, spicy spices, lanoline and wet stone. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of dense yellow fruit, rich, creamy and unctuous, medium acidity yet strong mineral expression provides a very good balance and precision, and a medium to long coiled yellow fruit driven finish with sea salt and honey at the end. There is a hint of heat. It is an incredibly concentrated and very serious wine, perhaps too serious. I have no clue when this will reach the peak. Intellectually stimulating but not much fun. (95 pts.)
  • 2010 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    A bit more expressive than the 09, rich white and yellow fruit, a hint of fresh lemon, yellow peach, light honey, lanoline, white flowers, salt, sap, spicy spices and limestone. Excellent concentration, very finely layered concentrated yellow fruit, rich and oily, exceptional balance and precision, medium acidity, strong mineral and a long concentrated white and yellow fruit driven finish with lanolin and honey at the end. This is another pretty serious wine but with a bit of playfulness. (96 pts.)
Hermitage Rouge
hey were all so expressive yet also so different which was fascinating. The 97 was remarkably Burgundian. The 05 will be a legend one day!
  • 1989 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Intoxicating incredibly complex nose displaying mature red fruit, strawberry, a hint of dry cherry, black olive, grilled fatty steak, a hint of soy, leather, sous bois, brown sugar, anise, perfume, cinnamon and limestone. Fully integrated Burgundian palate, very finely layered mature red fruit, silky, precise and slightly lean, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral, and a seamless long mature red fruit driven finish with perfume and tapenade at the end. This is an incredibly complex Chave hermitage that is drinking incredibly well.beautifully. Perhaps the best recent example. (98 pts.)
  • 1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Perfectly mature nose displaying subtle yet bright red fruit, strawberry, very clean not showing neither olive nor grilled meat, white pepper, dry orange peel, strong mint, cinnamon and mineral. Beautifully integrated palate, finely layered subtle red fruit, rich yet slightly lean and precise, bright acidity and strong mineral, and a medium long subtle red fruit driven finish with mint and cinnamon at the end. This is very Burgundian, especially towards to the end of the evening. Not the most complex wine but incredibly delicious! (94 pts.)
  • 2001 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Very youthful expressive nose displaying concentrated black fruit, black cherry, blueberry pie, brown sugar, beef stew, dark spices and iron mineral. Excellent concentration, packed opulent black fruit, rich and chewy, bright acidity, strong iron mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with dark spice at the end. It hasn’t developed much tertiary notes and can easily develop for another decade or more. Really impressive…..until the 05 shows up. (95 pts.)
  • 2005 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Incredibly youthful expressive nose displaying perfectly ripe concentrated black fruit, blackberry jam, crushed blackberry, blackberry liqueur, black cherry, liquid smoke, lavender, perfume, licorice, sweet spices, garrigue and crushed rocks. Exceptional concentration and incredible balance, beautifully layered perfectly ripe sweet black fruit, incredibly rich yet silky and fluid, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral and a seamless concentrated black fruit driven finish with garrigue and liquid smoke at the end. Despite being so concentrated and youthful, the palate is sensual and weightless which reminds me the 01 Yquem. For my palate, the 05 is the best Chave Hermitage. Monumental wine! (99 pts.)
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive primary nose displaying massive black and blue fruit, blackberry liqueur, blueberry pie, licorice, grille lamb chop, lavender, baking spices and mineral. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of ripe black fruit, rich and dense, medium acidity, strong limestone mineral and a long ripe blue and black fruit driven finish. This is a massive ripe Chave that has a slight resembles to the 05. Although expressive, it can easily improve for two decades or more. (97 pts.)
  • 2012 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive nose displaying black fruit, blackberry jam, black berry, tapenade, a hint of garrigue already, rose and mineral. Excellent concentration, packed concentrated black fruit, rich and opulent, yet silky and fresh, bright acidity, strong mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with grilled meat and tapenade at the end. It shows more tertiary notes that the 05 and 09. Stylistically, it reminds me the 01 a bit, i.e. surprisingly concentrated with generous fruit. (95 pts.)
The reds reaffirmed my belief that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
Posted from CellarTracker
Thanks for the notes. Sounds like I may need to check in on a ‘12.
I agree that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#3 Post by YLee » May 23rd, 2020, 6:29 am

Surprised the 12 has bit of tertiary notes already.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#4 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 6:29 am

YLee wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 6:29 am
Surprised the 12 has bit of tertiary notes already.
I was as well. However, some Chave hermitages can show garrigue and tapenade from early on.
Kevin
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#5 Post by Gerhard P. » May 23rd, 2020, 8:33 am

Interesting, thanks.
Was that the tasting order ...1989 to 2012?
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#6 Post by Mike Davila » May 23rd, 2020, 8:58 am

Nice notes, I have several bottles of then 2010 that I’ve been wanting to try, maybe it’s time to crack one open.

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#7 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » May 23rd, 2020, 9:11 am

Very interesting regarding the 97; the bottle we opened last year was nice but not particularly distinctive. Burgundian could be a good descriptor, although it was clearly Syrah.

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#8 Post by RyanC » May 23rd, 2020, 9:38 am

Great tasting. That 05 is such a legend. Perhaps the best wine I’ve had this year.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#9 Post by c fu » May 23rd, 2020, 9:51 am

Scott Brunson wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 6:06 am
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am
SECOND ZOOM TASTING – CHAVE HERMITAGE - Mi Casa (5/20/2020)

This was the second zoom tasting that David E. organized. The theme was Chave Hermitage which is one of my top ten favorite wines. Since it was six this time, RJ generous got me a box of 4oz bottles from Amazon. Six of us met in front of the Ritz Carlton Tysons Corner and exchange the bottles in the afternoon. We had a two hour zoom session which was both educational and fun.

Image
Hermitage Blanc
The critics love Chave Hermitage blanc yet there is a very little demand. It can be impressive upon release then it goes through a long dumb/less expressive phase only to blossom in a couple of decades. This is Leoville Las Cases of white wine, i.e. impossible to figure out when to open.
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Medium expressive nose displaying slightly coiled rich yellow fruit, white peach, dry pineapple, lemon oil, strong honey, salt toffee, a hint of anise, spicy spices, lanoline and wet stone. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of dense yellow fruit, rich, creamy and unctuous, medium acidity yet strong mineral expression provides a very good balance and precision, and a medium to long coiled yellow fruit driven finish with sea salt and honey at the end. There is a hint of heat. It is an incredibly concentrated and very serious wine, perhaps too serious. I have no clue when this will reach the peak. Intellectually stimulating but not much fun. (95 pts.)
  • 2010 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    A bit more expressive than the 09, rich white and yellow fruit, a hint of fresh lemon, yellow peach, light honey, lanoline, white flowers, salt, sap, spicy spices and limestone. Excellent concentration, very finely layered concentrated yellow fruit, rich and oily, exceptional balance and precision, medium acidity, strong mineral and a long concentrated white and yellow fruit driven finish with lanolin and honey at the end. This is another pretty serious wine but with a bit of playfulness. (96 pts.)
Hermitage Rouge
hey were all so expressive yet also so different which was fascinating. The 97 was remarkably Burgundian. The 05 will be a legend one day!
  • 1989 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Intoxicating incredibly complex nose displaying mature red fruit, strawberry, a hint of dry cherry, black olive, grilled fatty steak, a hint of soy, leather, sous bois, brown sugar, anise, perfume, cinnamon and limestone. Fully integrated Burgundian palate, very finely layered mature red fruit, silky, precise and slightly lean, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral, and a seamless long mature red fruit driven finish with perfume and tapenade at the end. This is an incredibly complex Chave hermitage that is drinking incredibly well.beautifully. Perhaps the best recent example. (98 pts.)
  • 1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Perfectly mature nose displaying subtle yet bright red fruit, strawberry, very clean not showing neither olive nor grilled meat, white pepper, dry orange peel, strong mint, cinnamon and mineral. Beautifully integrated palate, finely layered subtle red fruit, rich yet slightly lean and precise, bright acidity and strong mineral, and a medium long subtle red fruit driven finish with mint and cinnamon at the end. This is very Burgundian, especially towards to the end of the evening. Not the most complex wine but incredibly delicious! (94 pts.)
  • 2001 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Very youthful expressive nose displaying concentrated black fruit, black cherry, blueberry pie, brown sugar, beef stew, dark spices and iron mineral. Excellent concentration, packed opulent black fruit, rich and chewy, bright acidity, strong iron mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with dark spice at the end. It hasn’t developed much tertiary notes and can easily develop for another decade or more. Really impressive…..until the 05 shows up. (95 pts.)
  • 2005 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Incredibly youthful expressive nose displaying perfectly ripe concentrated black fruit, blackberry jam, crushed blackberry, blackberry liqueur, black cherry, liquid smoke, lavender, perfume, licorice, sweet spices, garrigue and crushed rocks. Exceptional concentration and incredible balance, beautifully layered perfectly ripe sweet black fruit, incredibly rich yet silky and fluid, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral and a seamless concentrated black fruit driven finish with garrigue and liquid smoke at the end. Despite being so concentrated and youthful, the palate is sensual and weightless which reminds me the 01 Yquem. For my palate, the 05 is the best Chave Hermitage. Monumental wine! (99 pts.)
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive primary nose displaying massive black and blue fruit, blackberry liqueur, blueberry pie, licorice, grille lamb chop, lavender, baking spices and mineral. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of ripe black fruit, rich and dense, medium acidity, strong limestone mineral and a long ripe blue and black fruit driven finish. This is a massive ripe Chave that has a slight resembles to the 05. Although expressive, it can easily improve for two decades or more. (97 pts.)
  • 2012 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive nose displaying black fruit, blackberry jam, black berry, tapenade, a hint of garrigue already, rose and mineral. Excellent concentration, packed concentrated black fruit, rich and opulent, yet silky and fresh, bright acidity, strong mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with grilled meat and tapenade at the end. It shows more tertiary notes that the 05 and 09. Stylistically, it reminds me the 01 a bit, i.e. surprisingly concentrated with generous fruit. (95 pts.)
The reds reaffirmed my belief that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
Posted from CellarTracker
Thanks for the notes. Sounds like I may need to check in on a ‘12.
I agree that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
I opened a 2012 a couple weeks ago for a zoom tasting. Still young as hell with no (miniscule) secondary notes. Lots of oak and lots of ripe bold fruit. Second day oak tapered down a bit. It was a bit much for me on the ripeness level. Especially having a 2012 allemand Reynard next to it, which blew the chave to pieces.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#10 Post by Marshall Manning » May 23rd, 2020, 10:39 am

k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am
The critics love Chave Hermitage blanc yet there is a very little demand. It can be impressive upon release then it goes through a long dumb/less expressive phase only to blossom in a couple of decades. This is Leoville Las Cases of white wine, i.e. impossible to figure out when to open.
Thanks to a generous friend, I had the opportunity to try the '90 blanc a few months back, and it was in a great spot, with complexity, nuttiness, but still a sense of vibrancy with fruit remaining. So, in the best vintages, with good storage, 20 years or more after the vintage should see them just about right.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#11 Post by Greg K » May 23rd, 2020, 10:57 am

c fu wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 9:51 am
Scott Brunson wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 6:06 am
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am
SECOND ZOOM TASTING – CHAVE HERMITAGE - Mi Casa (5/20/2020)

This was the second zoom tasting that David E. organized. The theme was Chave Hermitage which is one of my top ten favorite wines. Since it was six this time, RJ generous got me a box of 4oz bottles from Amazon. Six of us met in front of the Ritz Carlton Tysons Corner and exchange the bottles in the afternoon. We had a two hour zoom session which was both educational and fun.

Image
Hermitage Blanc
The critics love Chave Hermitage blanc yet there is a very little demand. It can be impressive upon release then it goes through a long dumb/less expressive phase only to blossom in a couple of decades. This is Leoville Las Cases of white wine, i.e. impossible to figure out when to open.
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Medium expressive nose displaying slightly coiled rich yellow fruit, white peach, dry pineapple, lemon oil, strong honey, salt toffee, a hint of anise, spicy spices, lanoline and wet stone. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of dense yellow fruit, rich, creamy and unctuous, medium acidity yet strong mineral expression provides a very good balance and precision, and a medium to long coiled yellow fruit driven finish with sea salt and honey at the end. There is a hint of heat. It is an incredibly concentrated and very serious wine, perhaps too serious. I have no clue when this will reach the peak. Intellectually stimulating but not much fun. (95 pts.)
  • 2010 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    A bit more expressive than the 09, rich white and yellow fruit, a hint of fresh lemon, yellow peach, light honey, lanoline, white flowers, salt, sap, spicy spices and limestone. Excellent concentration, very finely layered concentrated yellow fruit, rich and oily, exceptional balance and precision, medium acidity, strong mineral and a long concentrated white and yellow fruit driven finish with lanolin and honey at the end. This is another pretty serious wine but with a bit of playfulness. (96 pts.)
Hermitage Rouge
hey were all so expressive yet also so different which was fascinating. The 97 was remarkably Burgundian. The 05 will be a legend one day!
  • 1989 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Intoxicating incredibly complex nose displaying mature red fruit, strawberry, a hint of dry cherry, black olive, grilled fatty steak, a hint of soy, leather, sous bois, brown sugar, anise, perfume, cinnamon and limestone. Fully integrated Burgundian palate, very finely layered mature red fruit, silky, precise and slightly lean, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral, and a seamless long mature red fruit driven finish with perfume and tapenade at the end. This is an incredibly complex Chave hermitage that is drinking incredibly well.beautifully. Perhaps the best recent example. (98 pts.)
  • 1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Perfectly mature nose displaying subtle yet bright red fruit, strawberry, very clean not showing neither olive nor grilled meat, white pepper, dry orange peel, strong mint, cinnamon and mineral. Beautifully integrated palate, finely layered subtle red fruit, rich yet slightly lean and precise, bright acidity and strong mineral, and a medium long subtle red fruit driven finish with mint and cinnamon at the end. This is very Burgundian, especially towards to the end of the evening. Not the most complex wine but incredibly delicious! (94 pts.)
  • 2001 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Very youthful expressive nose displaying concentrated black fruit, black cherry, blueberry pie, brown sugar, beef stew, dark spices and iron mineral. Excellent concentration, packed opulent black fruit, rich and chewy, bright acidity, strong iron mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with dark spice at the end. It hasn’t developed much tertiary notes and can easily develop for another decade or more. Really impressive…..until the 05 shows up. (95 pts.)
  • 2005 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Incredibly youthful expressive nose displaying perfectly ripe concentrated black fruit, blackberry jam, crushed blackberry, blackberry liqueur, black cherry, liquid smoke, lavender, perfume, licorice, sweet spices, garrigue and crushed rocks. Exceptional concentration and incredible balance, beautifully layered perfectly ripe sweet black fruit, incredibly rich yet silky and fluid, bright acidity, strong limestone mineral and a seamless concentrated black fruit driven finish with garrigue and liquid smoke at the end. Despite being so concentrated and youthful, the palate is sensual and weightless which reminds me the 01 Yquem. For my palate, the 05 is the best Chave Hermitage. Monumental wine! (99 pts.)
  • 2009 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive primary nose displaying massive black and blue fruit, blackberry liqueur, blueberry pie, licorice, grille lamb chop, lavender, baking spices and mineral. Exceptional concentration, layers upon layers of ripe black fruit, rich and dense, medium acidity, strong limestone mineral and a long ripe blue and black fruit driven finish. This is a massive ripe Chave that has a slight resembles to the 05. Although expressive, it can easily improve for two decades or more. (97 pts.)
  • 2012 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Expressive nose displaying black fruit, blackberry jam, black berry, tapenade, a hint of garrigue already, rose and mineral. Excellent concentration, packed concentrated black fruit, rich and opulent, yet silky and fresh, bright acidity, strong mineral and a long sweet black fruit driven finish with grilled meat and tapenade at the end. It shows more tertiary notes that the 05 and 09. Stylistically, it reminds me the 01 a bit, i.e. surprisingly concentrated with generous fruit. (95 pts.)
The reds reaffirmed my belief that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
Posted from CellarTracker
Thanks for the notes. Sounds like I may need to check in on a ‘12.
I agree that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
I opened a 2012 a couple weeks ago for a zoom tasting. Still young as hell with no (miniscule) secondary notes. Lots of oak and lots of ripe bold fruit. Second day oak tapered down a bit. It was a bit much for me on the ripeness level. Especially having a 2012 allemand Reynard next to it, which blew the chave to pieces.
I’ve had the same experience with the 12 Chave and Reynard. The 12 Reynard is just a special bottle of wine, while the 12 Chave has always felt oaky and disjointed to me.
Greg Kahn

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#12 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 11:15 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 8:33 am
Interesting, thanks.
Was that the tasting order ...1989 to 2012?
Yes, old to young which worked out this time.
Kevin
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#13 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 11:18 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 9:11 am
Very interesting regarding the 97; the bottle we opened last year was nice but not particularly distinctive. Burgundian could be a good descriptor, although it was clearly Syrah.
A couple of the guys loved the 97 even more than me, simply a matter of preference.
Kevin
ITB - I may be offering some of the wines that I drink and post TNs on.

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#14 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 11:20 am

RyanC wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 9:38 am
Great tasting. That 05 is such a legend. Perhaps the best wine I’ve had this year.
Upon release, I drank a bottle over two nights and though Bob slightly missed this one @97pts.
Kevin
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#15 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am

Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 10:57 am
c fu wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 9:51 am
Scott Brunson wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 6:06 am


Thanks for the notes. Sounds like I may need to check in on a ‘12.
I agree that Chave Hermitage is one of the greatest wines of the world.
I opened a 2012 a couple weeks ago for a zoom tasting. Still young as hell with no (miniscule) secondary notes. Lots of oak and lots of ripe bold fruit. Second day oak tapered down a bit. It was a bit much for me on the ripeness level. Especially having a 2012 allemand Reynard next to it, which blew the chave to pieces.
I’ve had the same experience with the 12 Chave and Reynard. The 12 Reynard is just a special bottle of wine, while the 12 Chave has always felt oaky and disjointed to me.
A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#16 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » May 23rd, 2020, 12:09 pm

This is awesome Kevin, well done! I have a lone 05 that I don't know what to do with besides burying it. Cheers! [cheers.gif]

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#17 Post by Greg K » May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm

k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 10:57 am
c fu wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 9:51 am


I opened a 2012 a couple weeks ago for a zoom tasting. Still young as hell with no (miniscule) secondary notes. Lots of oak and lots of ripe bold fruit. Second day oak tapered down a bit. It was a bit much for me on the ripeness level. Especially having a 2012 allemand Reynard next to it, which blew the chave to pieces.
I’ve had the same experience with the 12 Chave and Reynard. The 12 Reynard is just a special bottle of wine, while the 12 Chave has always felt oaky and disjointed to me.
A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#18 Post by Ramon C » May 23rd, 2020, 2:48 pm

The '12 Allemand looks good here. Makes me want to try for some in CC.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#19 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 3:08 pm

Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 10:57 am


I’ve had the same experience with the 12 Chave and Reynard. The 12 Reynard is just a special bottle of wine, while the 12 Chave has always felt oaky and disjointed to me.
A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
Which vintages are you comparing to?
Kevin
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#20 Post by c fu » May 23rd, 2020, 3:27 pm

Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 10:57 am


I’ve had the same experience with the 12 Chave and Reynard. The 12 Reynard is just a special bottle of wine, while the 12 Chave has always felt oaky and disjointed to me.
A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
I think your opinion is aligned with more people than you think ;)

Hopefully the current vintages can reach the heights that the 89 hits
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#21 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 4:22 pm

c fu wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:27 pm
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am


A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
I think your opinion is aligned with more people than you think ;)

Hopefully the current vintages can reach the heights that the 89 hits
Charlie,
When do you think the style of Chave significantly changed? If you are looking for young Jamet in young Chave, that is a mistake. That was like that in the 90s as well.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#22 Post by Greg K » May 23rd, 2020, 5:04 pm

k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:08 pm
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am


A couple of the guys loved the 12 Chave even more than me. I really need to try more Cornas.
My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
Which vintages are you comparing to?
I think 98 is the last old school style Chave. I’m much less convinced by 99 and after. YMMV.
Greg Kahn

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#23 Post by k s h i n » May 23rd, 2020, 5:25 pm

Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:04 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:08 pm
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm


My views on more recent Chave are far from universal - glad you liked it!
Which vintages are you comparing to?
I think 98 is the last old school style Chave. I’m much less convinced by 99 and after. YMMV.
Is that due to the stylistic change or the warmer/more favorable growing season? I am not sure if you had the 04 but it is very Burgundian. Do you like the 90?
Kevin
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#24 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 24th, 2020, 8:15 am

Kevin,

What is the representativity of these samples ?

My last Chave blanc was last week : a great opulent 2007.
Chave Hermitage blanc 2007 : 18/20
On découvre ici un vin expressif, opulent, très long, sur le beurre, le gingembre … le tout porté par d’élégants amers typiques du cépage. Un style résolument aux antipodes de celui illustré par le vin jaune. On a pu penser à la Côte de Beaune (on sait la proximité du chardonnay et de la marsanne), à Rayas blanc ou à un Condrieu. Un vin corpulent et distingué à la hauteur de sa réputation.


My last Chave red was in june 2018, on a "fresh/slender" vintage :
Chave Hermitage rouge 2013 : 16,5/17
Cassis, poivre, graphite pour un millésime produisant un vin particulièrement leste, encore sensiblement boisé.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#25 Post by k s h i n » May 24th, 2020, 8:52 am

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:15 am
Kevin,

What is the representativity of these samples ?

My last Chave blanc was last week : a great opulent 2007.
Chave Hermitage blanc 2007 : 18/20
On découvre ici un vin expressif, opulent, très long, sur le beurre, le gingembre … le tout porté par d’élégants amers typiques du cépage. Un style résolument aux antipodes de celui illustré par le vin jaune. On a pu penser à la Côte de Beaune (on sait la proximité du chardonnay et de la marsanne), à Rayas blanc ou à un Condrieu. Un vin corpulent et distingué à la hauteur de sa réputation.


My last Chave red was in june 2018, on a "fresh/slender" vintage :
Chave Hermitage rouge 2013 : 16,5/17
Cassis, poivre, graphite pour un millésime produisant un vin particulièrement leste, encore sensiblement boisé.
Laurent,
Can you translate "aux antipodes de celui illustré par le vin jaune"? I agree with you on Chave blanc in general. For me, often too big and too rich when young.

Although my first love and still the favorite is Burgundy, I don't mind oak as it will more than likely gets integrated.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#26 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 24th, 2020, 9:01 am

k s h i n wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:52 am
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:15 am
Kevin,

What is the representativity of these samples ?

My last Chave blanc was last week : a great opulent 2007.
Chave Hermitage blanc 2007 : 18/20
On découvre ici un vin expressif, opulent, très long, sur le beurre, le gingembre … le tout porté par d’élégants amers typiques du cépage. Un style résolument aux antipodes de celui illustré par le vin jaune. On a pu penser à la Côte de Beaune (on sait la proximité du chardonnay et de la marsanne), à Rayas blanc ou à un Condrieu. Un vin corpulent et distingué à la hauteur de sa réputation.


My last Chave red was in june 2018, on a "fresh/slender" vintage :
Chave Hermitage rouge 2013 : 16,5/17
Cassis, poivre, graphite pour un millésime produisant un vin particulièrement leste, encore sensiblement boisé.
Laurent,
Can you translate "aux antipodes de celui illustré par le vin jaune"? I agree with you on Chave blanc in general. For me, often too big and too rich when young.

Although my first love and still the favorite is Burgundy, I don't mind oak as it will more than likely gets integrated.
The Chave white 2007 was opulent, rich (but balanced). Some guests did not like it.
The Aviet vin jaune 2004 was unsurprisingly slender, with a brilliant sapid acidity.
Hence, two opposite (great) styles.

Lucien Aviet Vin Jaune 2004 : 18/20 (the same day)
Impeccable sotolon d’une redoutable précision oxydative, puissant, mûr et transperçant, très persistant.
Rappel (le plus récent) :
Domaine Aviet Arbois vin jaune 2004 : 17/20 – 22/6/2019




My last Chave red was the 1998 : 18/20+ in october 2015 - it semt not fully ready to drink and was served along with a wonderful Rayas red 2001 (18,5/20) and a stunning Palmer 1990 (19/20).
Last edited by Laurent Gibet on May 24th, 2020, 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#27 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 24th, 2020, 9:05 am

How do you package these zoom samples ?
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#28 Post by k s h i n » May 24th, 2020, 12:41 pm

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 9:05 am
How do you package these zoom samples ?
We pour into 4oz or 5oz bottles right before we meet and have a session three or four hours later.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#29 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 24th, 2020, 2:16 pm

Not sure to understand your protocol …

Other people taste elsewhere ?
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#30 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » May 24th, 2020, 5:22 pm

Nice notes on a great cross-section of vintages. I love the whites too FWIW, and not that much trouble with drinking windows. Agree the '07 is currently in a good one. Had the '89 late last year and it was in very fine shape. More recent vintages (probably since around early 2000s?) have tended to be more exotic (fruit and honey on nose) but I would love a larger statistical sample.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#31 Post by k s h i n » May 24th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Rauno,
FYI, the first bottle of the 10 was premoxed according to RJ who brought the bottle.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#32 Post by c fu » May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm

k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:25 pm
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:04 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:08 pm


Which vintages are you comparing to?
I think 98 is the last old school style Chave. I’m much less convinced by 99 and after. YMMV.
Is that due to the stylistic change or the warmer/more favorable growing season? I am not sure if you had the 04 but it is very Burgundian. Do you like the 90?
stylistic change to glossier/ more new oak/ riper. They aren't Guigal Lala level oak/ripeness but it's a shift from the more classical style of the Gerald led chave. It's not a vintage thing, it's not like 04 was the only non ripe vintage since 1999. 07 is pretty comparable to 04 and it's a really soft plush wine.

Btw - how'd you deal with sediment on the older wines? I've noticed initially if i distributed the wines via funnel without standing up for a weeks/double decanting, those mini bottles would have a fair amount of sediment and disrupt the clarity of the wine. But If i stood it up 3-4 weeks and let the sediment settle and cake at the bottom of the bottle, when I use a siphon everyone gets clear wine as if it was double decanted
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#33 Post by c fu » May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 2:16 pm
Not sure to understand your protocol …

Other people taste elsewhere ?
everyone is tasting in their own homes
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#34 Post by Greg K » May 24th, 2020, 9:07 pm

c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:25 pm
Greg K wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:04 pm


I think 98 is the last old school style Chave. I’m much less convinced by 99 and after. YMMV.
Is that due to the stylistic change or the warmer/more favorable growing season? I am not sure if you had the 04 but it is very Burgundian. Do you like the 90?
stylistic change to glossier/ more new oak/ riper. They aren't Guigal Lala level oak/ripeness but it's a shift from the more classical style of the Gerald led chave. It's not a vintage thing, it's not like 04 was the only non ripe vintage since 1999. 07 is pretty comparable to 04 and it's a really soft plush wine.
My view as well. An 04 and 06 I had recently were still showing a lot of oak, while the 98 I had recently wasn’t showing oak at all despite still being a massive wine.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#35 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 25th, 2020, 2:36 am

c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 2:16 pm
Not sure to understand your protocol …

Other people taste elsewhere ?
everyone is tasting in their own homes
Who prepares the samples ?
Are they representative of the wine in bottle ?
Any other comments on the other samples ?
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#36 Post by Joshua Kates » May 25th, 2020, 4:32 am

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 2:36 am
c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 2:16 pm
Not sure to understand your protocol …

Other people taste elsewhere ?
everyone is tasting in their own homes
Who prepares the samples ?
Are they representative of the wine in bottle ?
Any other comments on the other samples ?
Laurent, here is the thread where Charlie first explained how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169268&p=2980281&hi ... u#p2980281
Mark Twain, when asked whether he believed in child baptism, replied: "Believe in it? I've seen it!"

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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#37 Post by Laurent Gibet » May 25th, 2020, 4:51 am

Joshua Kates wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:32 am
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 2:36 am
c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm


everyone is tasting in their own homes
Who prepares the samples ?
Are they representative of the wine in bottle ?
Any other comments on the other samples ?
Laurent, here is the thread where Charlie first explained how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169268&p=2980281&hi ... u#p2980281
Thank you,

I still wonder about the representativity of these small samples.
Did someone produce other comments ?
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#38 Post by k s h i n » May 25th, 2020, 6:23 am

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:51 am
Joshua Kates wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:32 am
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 2:36 am


Who prepares the samples ?
Are they representative of the wine in bottle ?
Any other comments on the other samples ?
Laurent, here is the thread where Charlie first explained how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169268&p=2980281&hi ... u#p2980281
Thank you,

I still wonder about the representativity of these small samples.
Did someone produce other comments ?
For our tasting, we limit to 6 participants, 4 ounce per person is plenty. The bottles are boiled first. i had my own doubts but the wines are pretty expressive.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#39 Post by k s h i n » May 25th, 2020, 6:41 am

Greg K wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 9:07 pm
c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm
k s h i n wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 5:25 pm


Is that due to the stylistic change or the warmer/more favorable growing season? I am not sure if you had the 04 but it is very Burgundian. Do you like the 90?
stylistic change to glossier/ more new oak/ riper. They aren't Guigal Lala level oak/ripeness but it's a shift from the more classical style of the Gerald led chave. It's not a vintage thing, it's not like 04 was the only non ripe vintage since 1999. 07 is pretty comparable to 04 and it's a really soft plush wine.
My view as well. An 04 and 06 I had recently were still showing a lot of oak, while the 98 I had recently wasn’t showing oak at all despite still being a massive wine.
In regards to the 06, someone posted on CT "Fermented in steel tanks and open oak vats. Aged in used oak barrels, focus on fruit and terroir." I may contact the main to verify.

There used to be a lot of folks who complained about new oak in CDP that Bob loved. Unfortunately, there was no oak at all. I check CT, there are 138 TNs of the 04 Chave, only two found oak, one from the 07 and the other from the 12. There are 94 notes on the 96, only three found oak, the last in 2013.
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (2/23/2018)
    A lost Friday afternoon gathering – Raveneau and Chave Vertical (Blacksalt, Washington DC): Beautiful classic Chave nose displaying fresh cherry, raspberry, blackberry, lavender, rose, perfume, tapenade, black pepper, a hint of charred rare steak and limestone. Medium concentration, finely layered subtle red and black fruit, silky and fluid, perfect amount of acidity and mineral, a medium to long cherry and black pepper driven finish with a hint of tapenade at the end. I drank this next to the 05 in 2013 and the impression remains the same. It feels almost light compare to the 05 in concentration yet it is no less expressive in nose. This is a classic Chave hermitage that has reached the youthful peak. My educated guess is that this will develop like the 83, becoming very Burgundian in another decade. If you are a lover of Jamet, you will also love this. (94 pts.)
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (7/7/2013)
    Another lazy Sunday dinner with La Las, Chaves, Chapelles, Rayas, Plume and Celestins (The Grill Room at Capella Hotel Georgetown): A mini vertical is always educational and this was served along with the 05. Noticeable difference in concentration but the flavor profile is very similar. Fresh crushed blackberry, raspberry, wild flowers, white pepper, limestone and earth. Medium concentration, silky palate, integrated tannins and good length. It is ready to go in terms of the palate expression but the fruit is still very youthful, ie it hasn’t achieved the Chave typicity of burgundian red fruits, charred steak and garrigue. Need to decant for two hours minimum but possibly four. (94 pts.)
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (5/22/2012)
    Eating a nice piece of humble pie, 2008 Bionic Frog vs 2004 Chave Hermitage (Capital Grill at Tysons corner, VA): Drank along with the 08 Cayuse Bionic Frog. Pop and pour, the nose is sweet but tight. The palate displays dense sweet fruits, noticeable minerality and bright acidity but seems a bit clumsy. I am convinced that this is the 08 BF with the initial rating of 92. We decide to decant and with an hour of air, it gets more expressive; cherries, candied cherry, smoked meat, blood and tapenade. The palate displays impressive concentration, chewy and dense but with nice lifting acidity. There is also noticeable structure underneath the sweet fruits. If I were to use “context”, this is an awkward adolescent phase where some tertiary flavors are emerging but the fruit while still dense and sweet is no longer fresh. It will take another five to ten years bring back the balance and harmony. I love Chave and hope that this will outshine the BF but not so on this night. (94 pts.)
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#40 Post by k s h i n » May 25th, 2020, 6:45 am

c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm
stylistic change to glossier/ more new oak/ riper. They aren't Guigal Lala level oak/ripeness but it's a shift from the more classical style of the Gerald led chave. It's not a vintage thing, it's not like 04 was the only non ripe vintage since 1999. 07 is pretty comparable to 04 and it's a really soft plush wine.

Btw - how'd you deal with sediment on the older wines? I've noticed initially if i distributed the wines via funnel without standing up for a weeks/double decanting, those mini bottles would have a fair amount of sediment and disrupt the clarity of the wine. But If i stood it up 3-4 weeks and let the sediment settle and cake at the bottom of the bottle, when I use a siphon everyone gets clear wine as if it was double decanted
So do you find oak bothersome in the 04? I assume if Chave used a lot of oak, the oak in the 04 should be very strong.

So far, no major issue with sediment, two sessions and all were consistently expressive and clear.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#41 Post by Greg K » May 25th, 2020, 7:24 am

k s h i n wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 6:41 am
Greg K wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 9:07 pm
c fu wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 7:48 pm


stylistic change to glossier/ more new oak/ riper. They aren't Guigal Lala level oak/ripeness but it's a shift from the more classical style of the Gerald led chave. It's not a vintage thing, it's not like 04 was the only non ripe vintage since 1999. 07 is pretty comparable to 04 and it's a really soft plush wine.
My view as well. An 04 and 06 I had recently were still showing a lot of oak, while the 98 I had recently wasn’t showing oak at all despite still being a massive wine.
In regards to the 06, someone posted on CT "Fermented in steel tanks and open oak vats. Aged in used oak barrels, focus on fruit and terroir." I may contact the main to verify.

There used to be a lot of folks who complained about new oak in CDP that Bob loved. Unfortunately, there was no oak at all. I check CT, there are 138 TNs of the 04 Chave, only two found oak, one from the 07 and the other from the 12. There are 94 notes on the 96, only three found oak, the last in 2013.
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (2/23/2018)
    A lost Friday afternoon gathering – Raveneau and Chave Vertical (Blacksalt, Washington DC): Beautiful classic Chave nose displaying fresh cherry, raspberry, blackberry, lavender, rose, perfume, tapenade, black pepper, a hint of charred rare steak and limestone. Medium concentration, finely layered subtle red and black fruit, silky and fluid, perfect amount of acidity and mineral, a medium to long cherry and black pepper driven finish with a hint of tapenade at the end. I drank this next to the 05 in 2013 and the impression remains the same. It feels almost light compare to the 05 in concentration yet it is no less expressive in nose. This is a classic Chave hermitage that has reached the youthful peak. My educated guess is that this will develop like the 83, becoming very Burgundian in another decade. If you are a lover of Jamet, you will also love this. (94 pts.)
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (7/7/2013)
    Another lazy Sunday dinner with La Las, Chaves, Chapelles, Rayas, Plume and Celestins (The Grill Room at Capella Hotel Georgetown): A mini vertical is always educational and this was served along with the 05. Noticeable difference in concentration but the flavor profile is very similar. Fresh crushed blackberry, raspberry, wild flowers, white pepper, limestone and earth. Medium concentration, silky palate, integrated tannins and good length. It is ready to go in terms of the palate expression but the fruit is still very youthful, ie it hasn’t achieved the Chave typicity of burgundian red fruits, charred steak and garrigue. Need to decant for two hours minimum but possibly four. (94 pts.)
  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage (5/22/2012)
    Eating a nice piece of humble pie, 2008 Bionic Frog vs 2004 Chave Hermitage (Capital Grill at Tysons corner, VA): Drank along with the 08 Cayuse Bionic Frog. Pop and pour, the nose is sweet but tight. The palate displays dense sweet fruits, noticeable minerality and bright acidity but seems a bit clumsy. I am convinced that this is the 08 BF with the initial rating of 92. We decide to decant and with an hour of air, it gets more expressive; cherries, candied cherry, smoked meat, blood and tapenade. The palate displays impressive concentration, chewy and dense but with nice lifting acidity. There is also noticeable structure underneath the sweet fruits. If I were to use “context”, this is an awkward adolescent phase where some tertiary flavors are emerging but the fruit while still dense and sweet is no longer fresh. It will take another five to ten years bring back the balance and harmony. I love Chave and hope that this will outshine the BF but not so on this night. (94 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
Chave clearly uses some new oak. I think we may have different tolerances for new oak, which is fine - I don’t mean it makes Chave a bad wine, just that there was a stylistic change which has made it a different wine that I like less.

Let’s put it this way - if you like Guigal, I can see how you would like the new style of Chave. I do not like Guigal and find new oak in Syrah very distracting.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#42 Post by Craig G » May 25th, 2020, 7:49 am

Jeff Leve says 10-20% new oak. According to Parker’s original Rhône book, Gerard Chave first experimented with new oak with one barrel of the 1985, so there is some change. 20% new oak might be noticeable early on but I doubt if it would show as oaky over time. It’s like Bertheau in Chambolle - does anyone complain about the new oak there?

We did a small tasting of 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2004 a few years ago and as far as I can remember nobody noticed oak in any of the wines. My notes and one other set I looked up for that tasting mention nothing about oak. In that case all four were good but the 1995 and 2004 showed the best. The comparisons we noted between those wines were mostly about maturity.

Whether the wines are more modern in some other way I’m not sure. Some might be softer and more lush but that was true of some vintages in the past.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#43 Post by c fu » May 25th, 2020, 10:00 am

Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:51 am
Joshua Kates wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:32 am
Laurent Gibet wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 2:36 am


Who prepares the samples ?
Are they representative of the wine in bottle ?
Any other comments on the other samples ?
Laurent, here is the thread where Charlie first explained how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169268&p=2980281&hi ... u#p2980281
Thank you,

I still wonder about the representativity of these small samples.
Did someone produce other comments ?
I’ve held the same wine for almost two months at home and they taste just as good as the first one.

I’ve had no problem shipping to other as well. There have been doubters but once they try it the doubt goes away.

But I Siphon the wine with a tube so aggregation of the wine initially is limited. Please see the link shared below for all the answers to your questions
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#44 Post by Alan Rath » May 25th, 2020, 11:26 am

c fu wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 10:00 am
But I Siphon the wine with a tube so aggregation of the wine initially is limited.
Siphon could be a good idea for an older wine with a fair amount of sediment. The one time it was my turn to do this (6 bottles), I just poured carefully, directly from the bottle into each vial, no funnel. If you are careful not to tip the bottle back as you move to the next wine, it's essentially the same as decanting. I don't think it gets appreciably more air than siphoning would, without the hassle. Either way, it's proven to be an excellent method of sharing wines between people! Most of us think the wines continue to improve after pouring that we pour an hour or so early, before tasting, that's how well they seem to hold in the vials. Now, we've only had one day between pouring and tasting, and I always store mine in the fridge overnight for a little insurance.
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Re: TN: Second Zoom tasting – Chave Hermitage

#45 Post by Greg K » May 26th, 2020, 8:04 am

Craig G wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 7:49 am
Jeff Leve says 10-20% new oak. According to Parker’s original Rhône book, Gerard Chave first experimented with new oak with one barrel of the 1985, so there is some change. 20% new oak might be noticeable early on but I doubt if it would show as oaky over time. It’s like Bertheau in Chambolle - does anyone complain about the new oak there?

We did a small tasting of 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2004 a few years ago and as far as I can remember nobody noticed oak in any of the wines. My notes and one other set I looked up for that tasting mention nothing about oak. In that case all four were good but the 1995 and 2004 showed the best. The comparisons we noted between those wines were mostly about maturity.

Whether the wines are more modern in some other way I’m not sure. Some might be softer and more lush but that was true of some vintages in the past.
Again, different people have different tolerances for oak in different wines. I have a low tolerance for oak in syrah, and for me, I did notice the oak in the 2004 and the 2006 when I had them last. I've found Chave's winemaking style since 99 has changed enough that it's not quite "Chave" to me, but that is a personal opinion. Others disagree, and that's totally fine.

Also, to be clear, my argument is not "new oak is bad!", because a lot also depends on the winemaking. Mugneret Gibourg uses up to 75% new oak on some of their 1er crus, which I'm happy to buy (though I generally wouldn't open them young). It's a combination of factors - i.e., winemaking.
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