'00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

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B. Buzzini
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'00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#1 Post by B. Buzzini »

Yowza...I know that 00 is suppose to be the Coche Roulot killa from OR...I bought some 16 EGW, but haven't checked in on one yet, so I can't confirm how much better it is from the likes of WScott...but NOW the invasion is on their land!! [truce.gif] At least they have the pricing right so far. [wink.gif]

Here is what Envoyer had to say about this VERY limited wine...

"$325
In Stock Next Week

Only 12 bottles Available

00 have been making very impressive wines in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, with the EGW and VGW being two stunning examples of their drive. Now 00, is not limited to just the USA, and this is the first of what will hopefully be many releases of Micro Production Corton-Charlemagne. The fruit here was purchased from a family that owns a small parcel and was vinified by the same winemaker that helped start 00 and the premier wine consultant in Burgundy, Pierre Millemann. Pierre has an extensive list of qualifications working everywhere from Rene Renou in Anjou to Charles Heidsieck in Champagne as well as in Bordeaux. Earning his master's degree in Enology in Dijon, Pierre, as well as doing consulting, is also a teacher at the University of Burgundy. We can only expect great things to come, and a few of our clients have already gotten a taste stating it is incredible. There were only 25 cases made of this Corton-Charlemagne, and we are fortunate to have 12 bottles to offer. 00 has wasted no time becoming one of the top new names in wine, and we look forward to seeing them continue their successes and branch our further!"

What's the thoughts here on these wines from 00? Don't see many tn's...if any at all?
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#2 Post by Warren Taranow »

I’m not a buyer at that price, but the ‘17 VGW I opened last night was amongst the best and most interesting domestic Chardonnay I’ve ever had. If money were no issue, I’d give the CC a whirl.
I’ve finally cut back my work hours, and hence my wine club memberships, but I’m sorely tempted to join 00 wines.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#3 Post by Brady Daniels »

I had a glass of this last night. I was underwhelmed. It was lean, and not very expressive. To be fair, perhaps it wasn’t open, and it was just a single glass consumed over 20 minutes. But, blind, I would have called it an over-cropped village Puligny.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#4 Post by Yao C »

Brady Daniels wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:10 pm I had a glass of this last night. I was underwhelmed. It was lean, and not very expressive. To be fair, perhaps it wasn’t open, and it was just a single glass consumed over 20 minutes. But, blind, I would have called it an over-cropped village Puligny.
Interesting. I tried the 2016 EGW over Christmas and had a similar reaction - thin midpalate and lacking in substance, even with almost a day's worth of air. Can't say I see this competing with Coche, Roulot, or even Walter Scott. I'm not writing them off as it could have been a bad bottle, but there's so much Chardonnay out there at this price point [shrug.gif]
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#5 Post by Doug Schulman »

Info on the winemaker but nothing on the fruit source, and then that price...aggressive. And tastes like overcropped village wine...ouch. Is Burgundy the new Napa? [wow.gif] [stirthepothal.gif]

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#6 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Yao C wrote: March 1st, 2021, 1:18 am
Brady Daniels wrote: February 28th, 2021, 1:10 pm I had a glass of this last night. I was underwhelmed. It was lean, and not very expressive. To be fair, perhaps it wasn’t open, and it was just a single glass consumed over 20 minutes. But, blind, I would have called it an over-cropped village Puligny.
Interesting. I tried the 2016 EGW over Christmas and had a similar reaction - thin midpalate and lacking in substance, even with almost a day's worth of air. Can't say I see this competing with Coche, Roulot, or even Walter Scott. I'm not writing them off as it could have been a bad bottle, but there's so much Chardonnay out there at this price point [shrug.gif]
So much Chardonnay out there at 1/4 the price.

The Wilamette 00 wines are usually solid wines. But I don’t see them as any better than most other top Oregon producers. I would drink Bethel Heights, Cameron, Brickhouse, Bergstrom, Walter Scott, Beaux Freres, Crowley, Arterberry Maresh, or my own wines as readily as anything I have had from 00. I like Wynne Peterson-Nedry, their winemaker on the ground in Oregon, but when you have a full time winemaker, and a Burgundian consultant for a small production, value isn’t really going to happen.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#7 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Cheers,
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#8 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:10 am Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Maybe so.

But Walter Scott raises the price on Ex-Novo, one of the very best Chardonnays in Oregon, to $85 and they catch flack for that?

Adam Frisch posts on how people’s wallets take a hit buying Oregon wines quoting one of the most expensive wines in the valley.

Every producer is affected by their peer group, and my comments on 00 are to put them in the top tier of Oregon Chardonnay producers. But when people try the wines from a top, and very expensive, producer and then don’t have a superlative experience, often they don’t explore a region any further.

My comment perhaps could have been worded better, because Chris and Kathryn Hermann are good people aspiring to produce truly great wines, but pricing is related to expense as much as results.

...and there are hundreds of my posts referencing my “competition” and their wines in positive ways. I try to recommend other Oregon producers all the time. So if this is gauche, I’ll live with that.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#9 Post by c fu »

My friend offered to open one recently, but it didn't happen, will have to ask him again! Can't imagine the wine will be worth the tariff for a negotiant corton charlemagne. The track record for success on those aren't exactly high.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#10 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Email today:

00 Wines is excited to announce the release of our second vintage of Corton-Charlemagne. As a 00 Wines member, you have the first option to add this extraordinary wine to your collection.

Cases produced: 50

Price per bottle: $350.00

When we released our inaugural vintage (2017) last spring, we sold out almost immediately.

Allen Meadows from Burghound.com gave our 2017 Corton-Charlemagne 93 points, the same score as the 2017 Corton-Charlemagnes from Domaine Georges Roumier and Domaine Leroy.
Cheers,
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#11 Post by Chris V. »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 9th, 2021, 2:20 pm Email today:

Allen Meadows from Burghound.com gave our 2017 Corton-Charlemagne 93 points, the same score as the 2017 Corton-Charlemagnes from Domaine Georges Roumier and Domaine Leroy.
Or you could buy the 2017 Domaine Rapet CC for 1/3 of the price which actually scored a point higher by BH. Or the Bouchard CC for 1/2 the price at the same score.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#12 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Chris V. wrote: March 10th, 2021, 5:16 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 9th, 2021, 2:20 pm Email today:

Allen Meadows from Burghound.com gave our 2017 Corton-Charlemagne 93 points, the same score as the 2017 Corton-Charlemagnes from Domaine Georges Roumier and Domaine Leroy.
Or you could buy the 2017 Domaine Rapet CC for 1/3 of the price which actually scored a point higher by BH. Or the Bouchard CC for 1/2 the price at the same score.
I'm not buying any of them, but thanks for the suggestions anyway.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#13 Post by Max S. »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: March 1st, 2021, 10:27 am So if this is gauche, I’ll live with that.
It's not.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#14 Post by Dan Kravitz »

Why settle for dubious Corton-Charlemagne when you can get Corton for 1/3 - 1/2 the price?

That would be Corton Blanc from Chandon de Briailles. The best white wine I've had in the past few years is their 2009. I've got two bottles left awaiting VERY special occasions.

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#15 Post by Howard Cooper »

Dan Kravitz wrote: March 12th, 2021, 4:53 pm Why settle for dubious Corton-Charlemagne when you can get Corton for 1/3 - 1/2 the price?

That would be Corton Blanc from Chandon de Briailles. The best white wine I've had in the past few years is their 2009. I've got two bottles left awaiting VERY special occasions.

Dan Kravitz
Bought some 2014 of this when I was at the winery in 2016. Looking forward to drinking it - but when?
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#16 Post by Howard Cooper »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:10 am Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Then he would have very few posts.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#17 Post by billnanson »

B. Buzzini wrote: May 10th, 2020, 4:37 pm ... the premier wine consultant in Burgundy, Pierre Millemann. Pierre has an extensive list of qualifications working everywhere from Rene Renou in Anjou to Charles Heidsieck in Champagne as well as in Bordeaux. Earning his master's degree in Enology in Dijon, Pierre, as well as doing consulting, is also a teacher at the University of Burgundy...
Maybe you can expand on why he's the 'premier wine consultant in Burgundy' - other than what hs website says - who is he working with?
Burgundy Report - online since 2002...

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#18 Post by Dan Kravitz »

Howard Cooper wrote: March 12th, 2021, 5:06 pm
Dan Kravitz wrote: March 12th, 2021, 4:53 pm Why settle for dubious Corton-Charlemagne when you can get Corton for 1/3 - 1/2 the price?

That would be Corton Blanc from Chandon de Briailles. The best white wine I've had in the past few years is their 2009. I've got two bottles left awaiting VERY special occasions.

Dan Kravitz
Bought some 2014 of this when I was at the winery in 2016. Looking forward to drinking it - but when?

Great question, to which I do not have the answer.

I've had the 2007, 2009 and 2011. The 2007, a few years ago, was fine and mature. The 2009 is spectacular now and in no hurry. The 2011 a year or two ago was lovely but at full maturity and not something I would hold. I have had only a few 2014 white Burgs. Based on the reputation, I would think 10 years sounds good but that's just a guess.

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#19 Post by Mike Evans »

Howard Cooper wrote: March 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:10 am Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Then he would have very few posts.
If you were paying attention, you’d see that Marcus posts on a lot of topics other than his competitors. That said, I find it refreshing and informative when a winemaker is willing to comment frankly and honestly about his peers.

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#20 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Mike Evans wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:49 am
Howard Cooper wrote: March 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:10 am Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Then he would have very few posts.
If you were paying attention, you’d see that Marcus posts on a lot of topics other than his competitors. That said, I find it refreshing and informative when a winemaker is willing to comment frankly and honestly about his peers.
I can't speak for others, but he's lost me as a potential customer. I prefer winemakers like Paul Draper who let their work speak for themselves.
Cheers,
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#21 Post by crickey »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 9:13 am
Mike Evans wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:49 am
Howard Cooper wrote: March 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm

Then he would have very few posts.
If you were paying attention, you’d see that Marcus posts on a lot of topics other than his competitors. That said, I find it refreshing and informative when a winemaker is willing to comment frankly and honestly about his peers.
I can't speak for others, but he's lost me as a potential customer. I prefer winemakers like Paul Draper who let their work speak for themselves.
And you wonder why winemakers generally avoid these types of forums. In the post you objected to, he praised eight other Oregon chardonnay producers (nine if you include himself) for making high-quality chardonnay. And yet you still want to punish him.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#22 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

crickey wrote: March 14th, 2021, 10:39 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 9:13 am
Mike Evans wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:49 am

If you were paying attention, you’d see that Marcus posts on a lot of topics other than his competitors. That said, I find it refreshing and informative when a winemaker is willing to comment frankly and honestly about his peers.
I can't speak for others, but he's lost me as a potential customer. I prefer winemakers like Paul Draper who let their work speak for themselves.
And you wonder why winemakers generally avoid these types of forums. In the post you objected to, he praised eight other Oregon chardonnay producers (nine if you include himself) for making high-quality chardonnay. And yet you still want to punish him.
What he actually did was criticize a producer that has been getting better scores and press than he has and is apparently pricing their wines aggressively. We can draw our own inferences about what was behind the comments.

Not only winemakers, anyone who owns a business should be very careful about engaging the public one-on-one via social media. It is rarely a good idea in my opinion. No matter what you say will offend someone, and sometimes a lot more than just one someone. Admittedly, I closely follow only a handful of producers, but I can't think of a single example of any of them commenting on their competitors in a way that could be interpreted negatively. They talk about their own work, and leave it at that. Seems like a smart policy to me, but YMMV.
Cheers,
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#23 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 6:16 pm
crickey wrote: March 14th, 2021, 10:39 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 9:13 am

I can't speak for others, but he's lost me as a potential customer. I prefer winemakers like Paul Draper who let their work speak for themselves.
And you wonder why winemakers generally avoid these types of forums. In the post you objected to, he praised eight other Oregon chardonnay producers (nine if you include himself) for making high-quality chardonnay. And yet you still want to punish him.
What he actually did was criticize a producer that has been getting better scores and press than he has and is apparently pricing their wines aggressively. We can draw our own inferences about what was behind the comments.

Not only winemakers, anyone who owns a business should be very careful about engaging the public one-on-one via social media. It is rarely a good idea in my opinion. No matter what you say will offend someone, and sometimes a lot more than just one someone. Admittedly, I closely follow only a handful of producers, but I can't think of a single example of any of them commenting on their competitors in a way that could be interpreted negatively. They talk about their own work, and leave it at that. Seems like a smart policy to me, but YMMV.
Marcus’ comments were generally complimentary. Not sure how saying that the wine being in the top tier of Oregon producers is criticism.

I’ve had a few 00 wines. They’re fine, but not really in the league of WS for their Oregon offerings.

I haven’t had the CC but am not going to seek it out at that price point. $325 will buy PYCM mp from a good vintage.

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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#24 Post by Saul Mutchnick »

Howard Cooper wrote: March 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:10 am Sometimes it is better to say nothing about your competitors.
Then he would have very few posts.
You know, most of Marcus' posts about other producers are positive. He's definitely a cheerleader for other Willamette producers 99% of the time. I suppose he shouldn't say positive things about his competitors, as well?
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#25 Post by Vincent Fritzsche »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 6:16 pm
crickey wrote: March 14th, 2021, 10:39 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 9:13 am

I can't speak for others, but he's lost me as a potential customer. I prefer winemakers like Paul Draper who let their work speak for themselves.
And you wonder why winemakers generally avoid these types of forums. In the post you objected to, he praised eight other Oregon chardonnay producers (nine if you include himself) for making high-quality chardonnay. And yet you still want to punish him.
What he actually did was criticize a producer that has been getting better scores and press than he has and is apparently pricing their wines aggressively. We can draw our own inferences about what was behind the comments.

Not only winemakers, anyone who owns a business should be very careful about engaging the public one-on-one via social media. It is rarely a good idea in my opinion. No matter what you say will offend someone, and sometimes a lot more than just one someone. Admittedly, I closely follow only a handful of producers, but I can't think of a single example of any of them commenting on their competitors in a way that could be interpreted negatively. They talk about their own work, and leave it at that. Seems like a smart policy to me, but YMMV.
No, we can't.

And in your opinion it is "rarely a good idea" for anyone who owns a business to engage with the public one-on-one via social media. Got it.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#26 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Vincent Fritzsche wrote: March 15th, 2021, 8:51 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 6:16 pm
crickey wrote: March 14th, 2021, 10:39 am

And you wonder why winemakers generally avoid these types of forums. In the post you objected to, he praised eight other Oregon chardonnay producers (nine if you include himself) for making high-quality chardonnay. And yet you still want to punish him.
What he actually did was criticize a producer that has been getting better scores and press than he has and is apparently pricing their wines aggressively. We can draw our own inferences about what was behind the comments.

Not only winemakers, anyone who owns a business should be very careful about engaging the public one-on-one via social media. It is rarely a good idea in my opinion. No matter what you say will offend someone, and sometimes a lot more than just one someone. Admittedly, I closely follow only a handful of producers, but I can't think of a single example of any of them commenting on their competitors in a way that could be interpreted negatively. They talk about their own work, and leave it at that. Seems like a smart policy to me, but YMMV.
No, we can't.

And in your opinion it is "rarely a good idea" for anyone who owns a business to engage with the public one-on-one via social media. Got it.
I don't know what your business is, but you are already not creating a good impression.

I though I had unsubscribed from this thread lol.
Cheers,
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#27 Post by Jason T »

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 15th, 2021, 8:54 am
Vincent Fritzsche wrote: March 15th, 2021, 8:51 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 14th, 2021, 6:16 pm

What he actually did was criticize a producer that has been getting better scores and press than he has and is apparently pricing their wines aggressively. We can draw our own inferences about what was behind the comments.

Not only winemakers, anyone who owns a business should be very careful about engaging the public one-on-one via social media. It is rarely a good idea in my opinion. No matter what you say will offend someone, and sometimes a lot more than just one someone. Admittedly, I closely follow only a handful of producers, but I can't think of a single example of any of them commenting on their competitors in a way that could be interpreted negatively. They talk about their own work, and leave it at that. Seems like a smart policy to me, but YMMV.
No, we can't.

And in your opinion it is "rarely a good idea" for anyone who owns a business to engage with the public one-on-one via social media. Got it.
I don't know what your business is, but you are already not creating a good impression.

I though I had unsubscribed from this thread lol.
Kevin, you indicate that you don't know what Vincent's business is. Vincent makes wonderful wines in Willamette, and is a frequent poster on this board.

It seems like you don't follow Willamette winemaking very closely, and certainly don't follow it on this forum. There's no fault in that - you like what you like.

But if you had, see a number of things: Marcus knows a helluva lot about wine and winemaking. He's incredibly passionate about not just the wines he produces but the wines around him (check out thisthis thread . He's been a part of the wine scene in Willamette for decades now. And he's incredibly generous with his insight (both on this forum, via email, and in person).

You'll also see that while he's quite passionate he's also even-handed. If you've followed him and interacted with him, you'd see that he has no hidden agenda. He's worked hard not just to make great wines, but to promote Willamette in general. That two winemakers have already come here to say so speaks to that.
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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#28 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

Jason T wrote: March 15th, 2021, 12:39 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote: March 15th, 2021, 8:54 am
Vincent Fritzsche wrote: March 15th, 2021, 8:51 am

No, we can't.

And in your opinion it is "rarely a good idea" for anyone who owns a business to engage with the public one-on-one via social media. Got it.
I don't know what your business is, but you are already not creating a good impression.

I though I had unsubscribed from this thread lol.
Kevin, you indicate that you don't know what Vincent's business is. Vincent makes wonderful wines in Willamette, and is a frequent poster on this board.

It seems like you don't follow Willamette winemaking very closely, and certainly don't follow it on this forum. There's no fault in that - you like what you like.

But if you had, see a number of things: Marcus knows a helluva lot about wine and winemaking. He's incredibly passionate about not just the wines he produces but the wines around him (check out thisthis thread . He's been a part of the wine scene in Willamette for decades now. And he's incredibly generous with his insight (both on this forum, via email, and in person).

You'll also see that while he's quite passionate he's also even-handed. If you've followed him and interacted with him, you'd see that he has no hidden agenda. He's worked hard not just to make great wines, but to promote Willamette in general. That two winemakers have already come here to say so speaks to that.
I'm sorry, I have to draw a different conclusion.
Cheers,
/<evin


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Re: '00" Corton-Charlemagne 2017...$325!

#29 Post by c fu »

At this point I'm thinking Kevin owns part of 00 LOL

p.s. marcus is one of the very best winemakers in Oregon imo. I love his wines.
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