de Negoce offer

[J. Patrick Lynch]

Man, I consistently am surprised when I don't get these VIP emails, I have 26 cases now. What was the offer?

175 for 25 - no real details besides that cause the link doesn't work. "reserve"

The 2017 made it a buy for me. I'm largely done with 2018 cabs.

[MatthewT]

Man, I consistently am surprised when I don't get these VIP emails, I have 26 cases now. What was the offer?

175 for 25 - no real details besides that cause the link doesn't work. "reserve"

The 2017 made it a buy for me. I'm largely done with 2018 cabs.

Same. I bought. I need help.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

Go to website....

[Michael Goode]

[Edited] I previously said I hadn't received the offer but I just received the email

[Eric White]

I'm in - really surprised it's a 2017, but not yet bottled!

[MatthewT]

I'm in - really surprised it's a 2017, but not yet bottled!

Had same exact thought. I guess that speaks well to the quality right? That's a lot of f'n time in the barrel.

[J. Patrick Lynch]

I wonder if there are going to be some ticked-off VIP customers with the broken link, and as Eric said, it not being on the website initially. I feel like many might circle back to it and find that it is all gone.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

I'm on the VIP list- always have been...Matthew T probably ahead of me just slightly...he has a line to Cam- can ask him.

[Rodrigo B]

Also didn't get the email, but you can access the offer via the site. Info below for those interested:

Deep, dark, dense and delicious, N.146 2017 "Reserve" Cabernet is being offered first to top De Négoce customers with a big "thank you!".

Big, concentrated and spicy with ripe black fruits and ripe, mouth-coating tannins, this full frontal Cabernet with absolutely knock your socks off. Priced around $175/bottle, this is no-expense spared Cabernet from one of the masters. If you like 'em big, chewy and rich with ripe layers of black fruit, this is for you. Just $25/bottle, $300/case.

Inky, opaque in the glass. Graphite, camphor, white flowers, ripe blackberry jam, dark chocolate and cocoa powder. Plush, dense and multi-layered across the palate with blackberry compote and toasty oak interwoven with big-grained, mature tannins. Booyah. Forget about this for another couple years and then drink over the next 10-15 years.

100% Cabernet Sauvignon sourced from select vineyards in top appellations (sorry, not allowed to mention)
80% new French oak
15+% alc. - just picked this up so haven't gotten final alc. yet
150 cases available
Projected bottling mid-March

[Jonah P]

I'm in - really surprised it's a 2017, but not yet bottled!

Had same exact thought. I guess that speaks well to the quality right? That's a lot of f'n time in the barrel.

Someone more knowledgeable than me explained this before on this thread. You can take the wine out of the barrel and put it in some other vessel before bottling.

[MatthewT]

I wonder if there are going to be some ticked-off VIP customers with the broken link, and as Eric said, it not being on the website initially. I feel like many might circle back to it and find that it is all gone.

Yah email link still doesn't work!

[Jonah P]

It's funny that the photo shows 2019 Rutherford when it's a 2017 of unknown AVA(s). I realize he hasn't bottled it or created the label, but why not put up a TBD or better yet a Repo Man styled bottle that just says "wine" on it in generic lettering? I must be right on the cusp for VIP status. I got this email, but didn't get the last one until it was opened to the 2nd tier VIPs (SIPs?).

[MatthewT]

This is gonna sell out w/o him even fixing the email link! We'll see if he reloads...

[Rodrigo B]

This is gonna sell out w/o him even fixing the email link! We'll see if he reloads...

I actually got the "second" email with the fixed link. Didn't get the first. Officially sold out now through

[John O']

FOMO is powerful

[rsmithjr]

Gone..... i never got the email.....

Bought 12 cases in the last year....guess i'm not a BIG enuff cutomer....

[MatthewT]

Gone..... i never got the email.....

Bought 12 cases in the last year....guess i'm not a BIG enuff cutomer....

12 isn't close to VIP levels...people with 25-30 didn't get email! crazy cult he has going here.

[Michael Singsen]

I've bought 40 cases, got the VIP mailing, but the link was broken, so I had to log in and search for 146 and when the offer appeared, I pounced, thanks to FOMO and lack of discipline. Considering how little info was provided about the provenance of 146, the rapid sell out reveals yet again that buyers give CH considerable benefit of the doubt.

[Eric White]

another data point, I did get the VIP email, and with this purchase I'm up to 53 cases.

[Jay $$ Winton]

sold out

[R Scott Hughes]

I didn't get the first email with the broken link but got the second - and despite swearing off any more dN purchases for the foreseeable future, I caved. I expect that if I am indeed in the VIP club, I am still second tier as my case count is only in the low 30s.

[AlexiR]

Any grand cru crus in the bay area want to split/share some of their 146 with a poor 10-case n00b?

[tpetty]

lol. No email 25 cases in. While I probably would have bitten, given the "$175 for $25" or whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it!

I was busy today, and just going through email now, so it looks like I wouldn't have been quick enough even if I had gotten the offer.

[Eric White]

Any grand cru crus in the bay area want to split/share some of their 146 with a poor 10-case n00b?

Back in the pre-pandemic days I got down there quite frequently (often by car). I expect that to return post-pandemic, so if you're still interested then...(whenever "then" may be, but at least it seems to be in sight!)

[JonathanG]

I almost bit but the 15+% ABV put me off...

[Chris Seiber]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

[Rodrigo B]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

The restaurant idea is an interesting one. Certainly would allow restaurants to offer BTG wines at really competitive prices.

The only issue I see is restaurants actually wanting to use de Negoce wines in their programs.

The limited run of each wine would certainly be cause for concern over how often they’d need to update their list.

I also imagine it’d be a lot harder sell customers on de Negoce wine than other wines. The pitch, “hey drink drink this random wine from a secret producer I know nothing about” is not the easiest to effectively execute.

I imagine there’d also be concerns around the widely reported issue of bottle shock in most of de Negoce wines. Pretty much all of the wines Cam has sold have been recently bottled wines. And by Cam's own admission, pretty much all of them suffer bottle shock that takes a while to recover. In many cases Cam notes that people should wait several months for it to recover. I don’t imagine many restaurants would be keen on purchasing large cases quantities for BTG program only to have to wait months to be able to pour them, even more so nowadays with restaurant’s challenging financials.

[Pat P]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

The restaurant idea is an interesting one. Certainly would allow restaurants to offer BTG wines at really competitive prices.

The only issue I see is restaurants actually wanting to use de Negoce wines in their programs.

The limited run of each wine would certainly be cause for concern over how often they’d need to update their list.

I also imagine it’d be a lot harder sell customers on de Negoce wine than other wines. The pitch, “hey drink drink this random wine from a secret producer I know nothing about” is not the easiest to effectively execute.

I don't think this would work for higher end restaurants but, there are a lot of restaurants where customers simply order a glass of Merlot or Cab or the house white. I think it would work for those types of restaurants where people aren't ordering a brand, just a wine type.

[Eric White]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Yes, I already had quite a lot of wine, and I am not associated with the restaurant industry. I am just now digging in to my cellared wines for the early 2000s, these De Negoce wines give me something to look forward to in the mid-term. 53 cases is a lot, but as I've mentioned way earlier in this thread, in large part this has ceased my buying from bargain sites such as WTSO, LB, etc. Also, 53x12=636 bottles, divided by, say, 5 years (short time frame for many of these wines), that's a little more than 10 De Negoce bottles/Mo. Pretty sure I'll be able to handle that with ease

I don't see this program working for restaurants at all. Restaurants are going to want subsequent vintages of the same wine, which is not possible with this model.

[Rodrigo B]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

The restaurant idea is an interesting one. Certainly would allow restaurants to offer BTG wines at really competitive prices.

The only issue I see is restaurants actually wanting to use de Negoce wines in their programs.

The limited run of each wine would certainly be cause for concern over how often they’d need to update their list.

I also imagine it’d be a lot harder sell customers on de Negoce wine than other wines. The pitch, “hey drink drink this random wine from a secret producer I know nothing about” is not the easiest to effectively execute.

I don't think this would work for higher end restaurants but, there are a lot of restaurants where customers simply order a glass of Merlot or Cab or the house white. I think it would work for those types of restaurants where people aren't ordering a brand, just a wine type.

The biggest potential issue I’d see with restaurants adopting de Negoce BTG would be the bottle shock issue I described. I imagine not many are willing to shell out cash and have to wait months for their BTG inventory to be drinkable.

For the most part BTG programs are big profit drivers at restaurants and having inventory you paid for but can’t sell for months poses both financial and logistical challenges. If you want to go the de Negoce BTG route, you’d have to constantly be stocking and storing a backlog of cases of wines to age a few months before they’re drinkable.

[larry schaffer]

I don't think restaurants would be concerned with the 'bottle shock' issues that many have experienced with these wines. As Pat mentioned, there are probably more restaurants that just offer 'merlot' or 'cab' and folks don't really know - or care - what they are getting. Seriously.

That said, you would be amazed at how many 'pretty good' wines are already out there and available at $10-15 for BTG programs - and wines that restaurants would be able to reorder, unlike these. Also, restaurants work on a net 30 basis - not cash up front - so there's that as well . . .

Cheers!

[Chris Seiber]

I don't see this program working for restaurants at all. Restaurants are going to want subsequent vintages of the same wine, which is not possible with this model.

What if — and I’m just teasing this out for conversation, I have no agenda either way here — you own a full service restaurant with an active wine business, and you identify that you like DN wines and they’re a great value.

So you just start buying what cases you can of various wines as they’re released. You sit them a couple months, put them on the list for $35 a bottle or $12 a glass. Or, if the quality is as high as some people say, even more than that. Seems like a win for the business and for the customer. Other than I guess it would have to be at a place willing to frequently update the wine list.

The server can have a brief explanation of what these wines are if people ask (though most people buying a $12 glass aren’t going to seek detailed information), and customers can be more or less interested when they hear it. Some may be excited and come back to see which new DNS are on the list each time they dine.

[Rodrigo B]

Fair points Larry

Even net of 30 days through, Cam has said to give many of his wines 6+ months of rest to recover from bottle shock. Which if valid (I think we’ve sufficiently exhausted the discussion on bottle shock in this thread and in others) would render that net 30 day meaningless.

That said, that whole argument doesn’t matter if restaurants just don’t care that their pouring shocked wine. I’m surprised (maybe I shouldn’t be?) that there’d be people running wine programs that don’t care whether the wine is tasting good.

I also imagine there’s not much wiggle room in the current pricing Cam’s wines are offered at. And as you said, there’s plenty of good $10-$15 wines out there so it’s a pretty competitive category and price bracket. Cam doesn't seem to have trouble moving large case quantities to consumers though, so I don't imagine restaurants being a big focus of his

[J. Patrick Lynch]

lol. No email 25 cases in. While I probably would have bitten, given the "$175 for $25" or whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it!

I was busy today, and just going through email now, so it looks like I wouldn't have been quick enough even if I had gotten the offer.

I'll put a bottle or two for you on the Carl Sandburg from Chicago and you can pick it up from the Amtrak station.

[Chris C a r y]

I've wondered where the large volumes are going, too.

Restaurants came to mind, but in 2020 through now, restaurants have been going the opposite growth direction due to Covid, and I can't see any buyer out there source this type of wine for a generic glass pour Red/white which, for reasons discussed, is the only feasible use. If they are selling $6/glass Sutter Home/Yellow Tail now, what would be the incentive to change and have someone chasing these e-mail offers that would likely cost them more as their current bulk wine. If their customers want a better glass of wine, they almost certainly would want to pick from a known list, and pay $20+/glass because they want and know what they are looking for.

For individuals buying 40-50+ cases in a year, some are splitting amongst local groups, east coast, etc... so their individual cellar growth might be half or less or their DN status. Still a bump, but sustainable.

For folks in the new cellar/cellar growth mode, which I've been in myself and have gone a bit berserk at times, it's a predictable pattern. You blow out the walls with cellar expansion, then eventually settle into what you can buy vs what you consume.

For the long term, I think the DN model requires more and more buyers as the newness wears off, and as some people (or their spouse) realize they have no place to put another XX cases of wine.

BTW, I just signed up as a new customer, and am interested to see some of the offers. I have no place to put any wine after Berserker Day and spring club shipments, but there just might be a de Negoce deal I can't pass up.

[rsmithjr]

I took # 21 Atlas Peak to mom's club in Naples (2/12/21) dinner with some friends. The sommelier was impressed with #21. I decanted it 3hours and funneled back in. The wine is JUST starting to come around. He stated it would go for 65 a bottle on the clubs list....

[Vladimir_Rahngel]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

one reason would be in every state I know of that would be against liquor laws and a sure way to get fined and have your license suspended

[Eric White]

"OG N.122 2019 Dry Creek Pinot Noir - known for their huge portfolio of single-vineyard-designate Pinot's from California's best "Grand Cru" sites"

Williams Selyem? I can't think of another producer where this statement fits better...

[Rodrigo B]

"OG N.122 2019 Dry Creek Pinot Noir - known for their huge portfolio of single-vineyard-designate Pinot's from California's best "Grand Cru" sites"

Williams Selyem? I can't think of another producer where this statement fits better...

Only thing that makes me lean away from Williams Selyem is Cam's "there is not a Pinot in this portfolio under $70" statement.

[Sanjay M.]

"OG N.122 2019 Dry Creek Pinot Noir - known for their huge portfolio of single-vineyard-designate Pinot's from California's best "Grand Cru" sites"

Williams Selyem? I can't think of another producer where this statement fits better...

Only thing that makes me lean away from Williams Selyem is Cam's "there is not a Pinot in this portfolio under $70" statement.

That was my first reaction too, but earlier he says "huge portfolio of single-vineyard-designate Pinot's from California's best "Grand Cru" sites." Based on that, "this portfolio" may be referring to their single-vineyard Pinot portfolio, which I think starts around $70, but I'm not positive.

[Eric White]

"OG N.122 2019 Dry Creek Pinot Noir - known for their huge portfolio of single-vineyard-designate Pinot's from California's best "Grand Cru" sites"

Williams Selyem? I can't think of another producer where this statement fits better...

Only thing that makes me lean away from Williams Selyem is Cam's "there is not a Pinot in this portfolio under $70" statement.

Good point, W-S definitely has some lower priced Pinots, at least in the appellation Pinots. I haven't purchased in years, but I wouldn't be surprised if all the SVD wines are priced above $70, which (with a stretch) could still fit Cam's statement (sort of)...

[Rodrigo B]

W-S SVD wines start at ~$60-$65. Cam's statement of not a Pinot under $70 is one of the stronger price language he's used. Usually it's something like "comparable wines sell at the winery for around $70." The no wine under X statement is definitely telling I think

[Eric White]

eh, looks like several still come in at the $65 mark...

https://www.williamsselyem.com/wine/

[Rodrigo B]

Other options that come to mind are Littorai and Rhys

[Chris C a r y]

Kosta Browne?

[Chris Seiber]

I am in awe of how many cases of these wines some of you have amassed. And I assume most of the folks who have bought 40 and 53 cases already probably had a lot of wine before that, right?

Are any of these going to restaurants? Is there any reason they can't be? It seems like they would be a good deal for both the restaurant and customers, most of whom won't really care that they don't know the details about the wine.

one reason would be in every state I know of that would be against liquor laws and a sure way to get fined and have your license suspended

Could you explain? I don't know why selling De Negoce in a restaurant would be against the law, but I'm not in that business, so maybe there is some reason I'm not aware of. Thanks.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

ARISTA or DUMOL are possibility of Dry Creek PN.

In for a case of PN, case of Chard for a friend- split the PN with him.

[Rodrigo B]

Could you explain? I don't know why selling De Negoce in a restaurant would be against the law, but I'm not in that business, so maybe there is some reason I'm not aware of. Thanks.

As I understand it, there are certain restrictions on where a restaurant can buy alcohol from and that may prohibit them for purchasing wines directly from Cam.

[Chris Seiber]

While it's hard to picture wineries like W-S and KB not being able to sell through their juice, I guess those are wineries who sell a decent amount to restaurants, and restaurant orders took a huge hit in the last year, so maybe there is a one-time surplus?

Just thinking of other names that could fit that criteria, Black Kite? Rochioli? Cobb? DuMOL?

[Chris Seiber]

Could you explain? I don't know why selling De Negoce in a restaurant would be against the law, but I'm not in that business, so maybe there is some reason I'm not aware of. Thanks.

As I understand it, there are certain restrictions on where a restaurant can buy alcohol from and that may prohibit them for purchasing wines directly from Cam.

Hmm, that just sort of restated the conclusion but didn't explain what the reason is. If anyone knows, please share.