de Negoce offer

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Chris Crutchfield
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7201 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 17th, 2020, 11:25 am

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Huh? [scratch.gif]

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PeterH
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7202 Post by PeterH » November 17th, 2020, 11:30 am

I've received 75% of the wine I've ordered. I don't see any reason to worry. Delays from Last Bottle can easily be as long.
I picture a lot of shared purchases, but little, if any, investment expectations.
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Eric White
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7203 Post by Eric White » November 17th, 2020, 11:41 am

I've received 32 cases out of 39, not at all concerned here.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7204 Post by R Scott Hughes » November 17th, 2020, 12:11 pm

Can't help myself...........
Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
This seems like nonsense.
Actually, this is not nonsense - it is a cult.

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.
Hmmmm - folks on "WineBerserkers" like wine...... who would have thunk it!

I do question your math though - 50-100 cases 365 days per year would equate to between 18,000 and 36,000 cases/year. Even for the heaviest drinking of the WineBerserkers, that might be just a touch excessive.

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.
I have already received 80% of the wine that I have ordered, as have many others.
R 0 L A N D

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7205 Post by Peter C. » November 17th, 2020, 12:14 pm

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics
Speaking of...what on earth is your post about?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7206 Post by MatthewT » November 17th, 2020, 12:16 pm

I read that post two times. Pretty sure he's saying it's a Ponzi Scheme, amongst other things. Someone should point him to the Ponzi Scheme section of thread.

[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7207 Post by Kevin Patrick » November 17th, 2020, 12:17 pm

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Joined 3 weeks ago and post #6 coming in hot!

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7208 Post by Jay $$ Winton » November 17th, 2020, 12:19 pm

Received all but a case and communication has been fine. No worries here.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7209 Post by Frank Z » November 17th, 2020, 12:22 pm

I'm surprised that I still haven't received my case of #42. But no worries - if CH is offering "free storage", I'm not complaining.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7210 Post by Tom Chen » November 17th, 2020, 2:03 pm

Got all 8 cases I ordered. Highest number was OG 51, which arrived yesterday.

Being much more picky about ordering new offerings, as I now see how much wine there is to drink.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7211 Post by Mitch P » November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Huh? I’ve now read it three times and still have no idea what your saying. Serious question - why on earth do people sign up for WB just to post on this thread and then disappear?
Mitch P @ m e r @ n t z

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Troy Stark
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7212 Post by Troy Stark » November 17th, 2020, 2:44 pm

Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
JoeAnon is that you?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7213 Post by Won H. L e e » November 17th, 2020, 2:50 pm

Mitch P wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm
Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Huh? I’ve now read it three times and still have no idea what your saying. Serious question - why on earth do people sign up for WB just to post on this thread and then disappear?

Some people prefer to just look and not join in the conv (like me). Prefer to ask and learn, instead. But I guess people are split on these types of deals. While I have bought 6 cases through DN offer already, I do wonder what are potential implication for small wineries and growers.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7214 Post by Andreas Birnik » November 17th, 2020, 3:35 pm

We've ordered 107 cases of de Négoce and we received 85 cases (79%) in time for our reefer shipment to Singapore.
It is of course frustrating that we had to leave 22 cases behind but I don't see any evidence of de Négoce being a ponzi scheme or another type of scam.
To me, it looks like a small team that was simply overwhelmed by their own success and couldn't deliver according to the released schedule.
A parallel to me are hardware crowdfunding campaigns on Kickstarter and Indiegogo where more than 80% of campaigns are late to deliver.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7215 Post by tpetty » November 17th, 2020, 3:44 pm

Got 5 cases today. That puts me up to 9 of 15
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7216 Post by Peter C. » November 17th, 2020, 3:56 pm

Mitch P wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm
Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Huh? I’ve now read it three times and still have no idea what your saying. Serious question - why on earth do people sign up for WB just to post on this thread and then disappear?
He sees dead people. And scans into Asia. [cheers.gif]
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ChrisWolff
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7217 Post by ChrisWolff » November 17th, 2020, 4:58 pm

Bob, you seem like a really weird guy but I appreciate you checking in on all us alcoholics. Looking forward to your next check in

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7218 Post by Brent Butler » November 17th, 2020, 6:05 pm

I don’t want to take any time out of my life to try to understand why folks would come to a message board devoted to interest in wine just to tear people down. It’s a broken world for sure, but can’t there be any place we can get away from that?

A “fan boy” got me into this. If the wine had been bad, or not what I’d hoped, that would have been MY problem, and as a good citizen I might have come here to warn others the wine didn’t live up to its promise for ME. As it turns out I’ve been over the top happy about the whole thing and in 2020 that is soooo needed. Some may think I’m a fool for buying 40+ cases for just myself, but why judge me? And in public? I’m happy. Why oh why would my happinesses make you sad or angry?

I’m having a N.04 tonight. It’s great. I’ve left a short note on it and others over on the “what dN are you drinking tonight” thread. I love seeing the reviews of individual dNs over there.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7219 Post by Eric White » November 17th, 2020, 6:21 pm

Brent Butler wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 6:05 pm
I don’t want to take any time out of my life to try to understand why folks would come to a message board devoted to interest in wine just to tear people down. It’s a broken world for sure, but can’t there be any place we can get away from that?

A “fan boy” got me into this. If the wine had been bad, or not what I’d hoped, that would have been MY problem, and as a good citizen I might have come here to warn others the wine didn’t live up to its promise for ME. As it turns out I’ve been over the top happy about the whole thing and in 2020 that is soooo needed. Some may think I’m a fool for buying 40+ cases for just myself, but why judge me? And in public? I’m happy. Why oh why would my happinesses make you sad or angry?

I’m having a N.04 tonight. It’s great. I’ve left a short note on it and others over on the “what dN are you drinking tonight” thread. I love seeing the reviews of individual dNs over there.
[cheers.gif] love this [cheers.gif]

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7220 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » November 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm

What an absurdist post. Camus would be proud.

11 cases arrived today (ugh) and went right to storage. The bottles exist, but I suppose they could be filled with water. I won't know for a few more months and by that time, Cam may have already absconded with Trump.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7221 Post by Rodrigo B » November 17th, 2020, 7:23 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm
What an absurdist post. Camus would be proud.

11 cases arrived today (ugh) and went right to storage. The bottles exist, but I suppose they could be filled with water. I won't know for a few more months and by that time, Cam may have already absconded with Trump.
Did that all fit in the trunk or was this a multi-trip drop-off?
B r a g a

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7222 Post by Kris Patten » November 17th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Got my first case today, #70 the mixed Oregon Pinot offer.

Waiting on 41, 65, 74.

I don't get the Ponzi scheme talk, I have no fear of getting all the wine, I don't think anyone, including Cam, could imagine the ramp up of this and the energy to buy due to scarcity and Covid. Had to be a logistical nightmare during Covid.
Last edited by Kris Patten on November 17th, 2020, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7223 Post by Michael Singsen » November 17th, 2020, 7:30 pm

fwiw...I've already received 22 cases...gak...one more will arrive tomorrow. Everything is working out just fine for me and my buying group. Oh, and everything I've tried has been more than worth the price, and I haven't touched a single cab yet.
Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics ordering 50-100 cases. 365 days a year.

I was told some purchases are investment only. Money is accepted for purchase of wine. Delivery is “pending” for months until would be customer gives up and may get “deposit” back. The cancelled orders are rolled back in at the higher more profitable price. Some get the wine and some don’t. This keeps hope alive. The model was stated as customers would pay in advance for actual bulk purchases to guarantee cash flow.

In any event, I can’t know if this person is correct in this theory. It does seem that some get wine others wait months longer or still wait for. Is it “too good to be true”. Some of you seem to suggest you have purchased $20,000 worth of wine. It’s fascinating. It isn’t Bordeaux futures.

I am waiting to see this thread show all orders fulfilled. You toss bottles in cases. You ship. I ship all over the world. I see scans into the system in Asia. I get updated as the stuff marches to its destination. I buy wine. It comes.

This seems like nonsense.
Last edited by Michael Singsen on November 17th, 2020, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

<hr!s.L
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7224 Post by <hr!s.L » November 17th, 2020, 7:31 pm

Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 6:21 pm
Brent Butler wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 6:05 pm
I don’t want to take any time out of my life to try to understand why folks would come to a message board devoted to interest in wine just to tear people down. It’s a broken world for sure, but can’t there be any place we can get away from that?

A “fan boy” got me into this. If the wine had been bad, or not what I’d hoped, that would have been MY problem, and as a good citizen I might have come here to warn others the wine didn’t live up to its promise for ME. As it turns out I’ve been over the top happy about the whole thing and in 2020 that is soooo needed. Some may think I’m a fool for buying 40+ cases for just myself, but why judge me? And in public? I’m happy. Why oh why would my happinesses make you sad or angry?

I’m having a N.04 tonight. It’s great. I’ve left a short note on it and others over on the “what dN are you drinking tonight” thread. I love seeing the reviews of individual dNs over there.
[cheers.gif] love this [cheers.gif]
+1

such a great reply
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J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7225 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » November 17th, 2020, 7:31 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:23 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm
What an absurdist post. Camus would be proud.

11 cases arrived today (ugh) and went right to storage. The bottles exist, but I suppose they could be filled with water. I won't know for a few more months and by that time, Cam may have already absconded with Trump.
Did that all fit in the trunk or was this a multi-trip drop-off?
Oh sorry, storage = my condo storage unit. It keeps a regular 65F. I'm sure I'm taking a few years off my wines, but I'm not really racking 1er Crus.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7226 Post by Scott K » November 17th, 2020, 8:48 pm

Just received my first shipment, #70. It’s time to join the party! expecting n.48 to arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it after reading Eric’s note in the other thread.

The one I’m curious about is n.44, the shiner. Anyone receive this one yet, or at least get a shipping notification?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7227 Post by Ron F r e e d » November 18th, 2020, 7:46 am

Peter C. wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 12:14 pm
Bob Chapman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am
Gonna presume there are some serious alcoholics
Speaking of...what on earth is your post about?

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FIFY [drinkers.gif]

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7228 Post by Rohit B » November 18th, 2020, 7:50 am

N.66 on its way--anyone tried this yet?
13 h @ n

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7229 Post by Ron F r e e d » November 18th, 2020, 7:55 am

#64 was scheduled to be bottled on 11/9 when ordered. Received notice that it is scheduled for delivery on 11/19 to my off-site. Hope nobody slays one of these for at least a few months!

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7230 Post by Jonah P » November 18th, 2020, 8:24 am

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:31 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:23 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm
What an absurdist post. Camus would be proud.

11 cases arrived today (ugh) and went right to storage. The bottles exist, but I suppose they could be filled with water. I won't know for a few more months and by that time, Cam may have already absconded with Trump.
Did that all fit in the trunk or was this a multi-trip drop-off?
Oh sorry, storage = my condo storage unit. It keeps a regular 65F. I'm sure I'm taking a few years off my wines, but I'm not really racking 1er Crus.
Interesting. I had a similar situation when I stored two pallets of wine in a warehouse at a steady 72 for almost four years from '12-16 (it was down to one pallet by year two). I was delighted how everything held up, but i'm noticing the '07's and '08's that I thought would be in their prime right now are pretty much over the hill.
J o n a h P e t c h e s k y

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7231 Post by rsmithjr » November 18th, 2020, 9:09 am

# 46 and 68 are slated for delivery today. Once those arrive there is only TWO case left- # 3 which is the Stagecoach Cab Franc. and 41

Now I remember why I don't like to order online.....UPS cannot give me a timeframe for delivery so WAY to much time spent waiting for them.
Last edited by rsmithjr on November 18th, 2020, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7232 Post by mikepf1 » November 18th, 2020, 9:13 am

Scott K wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 8:48 pm
Just received my first shipment, #70. It’s time to join the party! expecting n.48 to arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it after reading Eric’s note in the other thread.

The one I’m curious about is n.44, the shiner. Anyone receive this one yet, or at least get a shipping notification?
I could be wrong but I thought N.41 was the shiner.

Cam's reference to #41 in the follow-on offer (N.57) has me wondering if N.41 is a truly a shiner in the broader sense.

In the follow-on offer to 41 (N.57) He mentions that the only difference between the two is the 3% SM Merlot he/DN added to the 57 for structure versus the 2% PV/1% Merlot that was added to the 41 for the same reason.

In the context used a shiner is typically a wine bottled by the winery and then sold without label which seems in conflict with the above.

Not a big deal either way just an interesting data-point as we dissect the offers.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7233 Post by MatthewT » November 18th, 2020, 9:49 am

I've had a ton of cases shipped last week and this. Probably >50% of them. I don't know exact number because not all were emailed to me and it's at offsite.

Clearly de Negoce is terrible at being a Ponzi Scheme. (SARCASM)
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7234 Post by ChrisWolff » November 18th, 2020, 10:22 am

mikepf1 wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 9:13 am
Scott K wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 8:48 pm
Just received my first shipment, #70. It’s time to join the party! expecting n.48 to arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it after reading Eric’s note in the other thread.

The one I’m curious about is n.44, the shiner. Anyone receive this one yet, or at least get a shipping notification?
I could be wrong but I thought N.41 was the shiner.

Cam's reference to #41 in the follow-on offer (N.57) has me wondering if N.41 is a truly a shiner in the broader sense.

In the follow-on offer to 41 (N.57) He mentions that the only difference between the two is the 3% SM Merlot he/DN added to the 57 for structure versus the 2% PV/1% Merlot that was added to the 41 for the same reason.

In the context used a shiner is typically a wine bottled by the winery and then sold without label which seems in conflict with the above.

Not a big deal either way just an interesting data-point as we dissect the offers.
He didn't say 41 was a shiner, but he rode pretty close to it when he did cite Robert Parker scores

Scoring 94-95 points from The Wine Advocate the last four vintages, this lush, hedonistic St. Helena Cabernet is a classic "Parker", petal-to-the-metal, blockbuster-styled wine. Barrel-fermented in 100% new French oak, its packed with exuberant and gorgeously pure fruit. Sensuous as hell, with a magnificent, palate-coating, tooth-staining structure, it drinks very well now but has all the stuffing to go another 15-20 years in your cellar (but, like I said, you needn't wait, its drink really well now).

Dense purple in the glass, it exudes creme de cassis and boysenberry jam underscored with fruit cake, pencil lead, and smoky cinnamon spice from all the new French oak. Smooth and creamy on the palate with loads of black fruit preserves, dark chocolate-covered cherries and plush tannins that caress the palate in a long, sensuous finish. Fantastic!

100% barrel-fermented in 100% new French Oak
97% Cabernet, 2% Petite Verdot, 1% Merlot
16% alc.
1000 cases available
Bottled August 10th, 2020

mikepf1
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7235 Post by mikepf1 » November 18th, 2020, 11:04 am

ChrisWolff wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 10:22 am
mikepf1 wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 9:13 am
Scott K wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 8:48 pm
Just received my first shipment, #70. It’s time to join the party! expecting n.48 to arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it after reading Eric’s note in the other thread.

The one I’m curious about is n.44, the shiner. Anyone receive this one yet, or at least get a shipping notification?
I could be wrong but I thought N.41 was the shiner.

Cam's reference to #41 in the follow-on offer (N.57) has me wondering if N.41 is a truly a shiner in the broader sense.

In the follow-on offer to 41 (N.57) He mentions that the only difference between the two is the 3% SM Merlot he/DN added to the 57 for structure versus the 2% PV/1% Merlot that was added to the 41 for the same reason.

In the context used a shiner is typically a wine bottled by the winery and then sold without label which seems in conflict with the above.

Not a big deal either way just an interesting data-point as we dissect the offers.
He didn't say 41 was a shiner, but he rode pretty close to it when he did cite Robert Parker scores

Scoring 94-95 points from The Wine Advocate the last four vintages, this lush, hedonistic St. Helena Cabernet is a classic "Parker", petal-to-the-metal, blockbuster-styled wine. Barrel-fermented in 100% new French oak, its packed with exuberant and gorgeously pure fruit. Sensuous as hell, with a magnificent, palate-coating, tooth-staining structure, it drinks very well now but has all the stuffing to go another 15-20 years in your cellar (but, like I said, you needn't wait, its drink really well now).

Dense purple in the glass, it exudes creme de cassis and boysenberry jam underscored with fruit cake, pencil lead, and smoky cinnamon spice from all the new French oak. Smooth and creamy on the palate with loads of black fruit preserves, dark chocolate-covered cherries and plush tannins that caress the palate in a long, sensuous finish. Fantastic!

100% barrel-fermented in 100% new French Oak
97% Cabernet, 2% Petite Verdot, 1% Merlot
16% alc.
1000 cases available
Bottled August 10th, 2020
You're right. It looks like the offer language was cleaned up in the time since as the original indicated "1000 cases available. Bottled into shiners on August 10 -- labels go on shortly."

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7236 Post by NealW » November 18th, 2020, 11:52 am

Curious as to if anyone has a list of which are shiners and which are producers blend
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mikepf1
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7237 Post by mikepf1 » November 18th, 2020, 12:01 pm

NealW wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 11:52 am
Curious as to if anyone has a list of which are shiners and which are producers blend
Based on a quick search the only one that is referenced as a shiner at this point is the N.98 Walla Walla Viognier.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7238 Post by MatthewT » November 18th, 2020, 12:02 pm

mikepf1 wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 12:01 pm
NealW wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 11:52 am
Curious as to if anyone has a list of which are shiners and which are producers blend
Based on a quick search the only one that is referenced as a shiner at this point is the N.98 Walla Walla Viognier.
Yah he doesn't use that term often. He said in a newspaper article that #1 is "the exact same wine" as the winery but that doesn't make it a shiner. A shiner is bottled by the producer and he is putting just the label on it.
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<hr!s.L
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7239 Post by <hr!s.L » November 18th, 2020, 12:46 pm

Post coming out of left field regarding OG48. (Apologies for the tangent, but I thought this post made more sense in this thread than the tasting one.)
Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm
PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill)....
There was a robust discussion regarding the source of OG48, which ended with no single option considered an absolute lock. Still denegociants.com (an amazing resource - big gratitude and respect to LC00k!) settled on the Patz & Hall Bootlegger's Hill for the Source Guess. Here are a couple of new points which strongly suggest otherwise, and that those in the David Bruce camp may have had it right.

Evidence against Patz & Hall:
From Cam's description of OG48 on his website, "The 2016 and 2017 versions were given 93 and 92 points respectively by the Wine Enthusiast". This is the opposite order of the WE scores given to Patz & Hall BH.

Image

Furthermore, Patz & Hall Bootlegger's Hill 2015 vintage also received a WE score of 94 and I have to believe Cam would've included that in his pitch for OG48 if Patz & Hall was the source, e.g., "The last three vintages of this wine received scores of 94, 92 and 93 points, respectively, from Wine Enthusiast..."


Evidence for David Bruce:
What we already know - the article linked by DanielP from Wine Business Monthly titled “California Pinot Pioneer David Bruce” (which clearly echoes Cam’s opening line for OG 48, “From one of California's pioneering Pinot Noir producers…”) that cites both the Goldridge soils and all five clones* in the exact order listed on the dN product page.
*albeit with the discrepancy (a possible / probable typo) of 828, instead of Cam’s 838.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... lnk&gl=us


Not previously noted however is the striking overlap between Wine Enthusiast's review of the 2016 David Bruce RRV Pinot Noir and Cam's tasting notes from dN's website:

Wine Enthusiast -
This has a lovely array of baking spice and cola on the palate, framed in earthy freshness and energetic red fruit. Structured in firm, supportive tannins, it offers length and plenty of power that tastes fruit forward and complex.

Cam -
…The energetic nose is mirrored on the palate with a velvety attack of ripe cherry, baking spice, and cola unfurling over firm yet supportive tannins and finishing with a flourish of red fruit-coated mineral, rose petal and bergamot tea spice. This beautiful Pinot offers length and power and fruit-forward complexity

Honestly, I admire the way Cam writes marketing copy; it reminds me of those refrigerator poetry tiles - just rearrange a jumble of words from one poem and - Voila! - you have a second poem. It also leaves a delicious trail of breadcrumbs to gobble up in pursuit of the mystery's true source.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7240 Post by PeterH » November 18th, 2020, 12:52 pm

I've stuck with the belief that OG48 is David Bruce, but I don't think it would make any difference to me. It has been at least 6 or7 years since I tasted either Patz and Hall or David Bruce.
P Hickner

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Eric White
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7241 Post by Eric White » November 18th, 2020, 12:57 pm

<hr!s.L wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Post coming out of left field regarding OG48. (Apologies for the tangent, but I thought this post made more sense in this thread than the tasting one.)
Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm
PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill)....
There was a robust discussion regarding the source of OG48, which ended with no single option considered an absolute lock. Still denegociants.com (an amazing resource - big gratitude and respect to LC00k!) settled on the Patz & Hall Bootlegger's Hill for the Source Guess. Here are a couple of new points which strongly suggest otherwise, and that those in the David Bruce camp may have had it right.

Evidence against Patz & Hall:
From Cam's description of OG48 on his website, "The 2016 and 2017 versions were given 93 and 92 points respectively by the Wine Enthusiast". This is the opposite order of the WE scores given to Patz & Hall BH.

Image

Furthermore, Patz & Hall Bootlegger's Hill 2015 vintage also received a WE score of 94 and I have to believe Cam would've included that in his pitch for OG48 if Patz & Hall was the source, e.g., "The last three vintages of this wine received scores of 94, 92 and 93 points, respectively, from Wine Enthusiast..."


Evidence for David Bruce:
What we already know - the article linked by DanielP from Wine Business Monthly titled “California Pinot Pioneer David Bruce” (which clearly echoes Cam’s opening line for OG 48, “From one of California's pioneering Pinot Noir producers…”) that cites both the Goldridge soils and all five clones* in the exact order listed on the dN product page.
*albeit with the discrepancy (a possible / probable typo) of 828, instead of Cam’s 838.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... lnk&gl=us


Not previously noted however is the striking overlap between Wine Enthusiast's review of the 2016 David Bruce RRV Pinot Noir and Cam's tasting notes from dN's website:

Wine Enthusiast -
This has a lovely array of baking spice and cola on the palate, framed in earthy freshness and energetic red fruit. Structured in firm, supportive tannins, it offers length and plenty of power that tastes fruit forward and complex.

Cam -
…The energetic nose is mirrored on the palate with a velvety attack of ripe cherry, baking spice, and cola unfurling over firm yet supportive tannins and finishing with a flourish of red fruit-coated mineral, rose petal and bergamot tea spice. This beautiful Pinot offers length and power and fruit-forward complexity

Honestly, I admire the way Cam writes marketing copy; it reminds me of those refrigerator poetry tiles - just rearrange a jumble of words from one poem and - Voila! - you have a second poem. It also leaves a delicious trail of breadcrumbs to gobble up in pursuit of the mystery's true source.
Interesting analysis - the only thing that does seem to match up is the price. I don't see where any David Bruce wines come close to Cam's claim:

"Retailing for well north of $60/bottle at the winery"

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7242 Post by <hr!s.L » November 18th, 2020, 2:29 pm

PeterH wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 12:52 pm
I've stuck with the belief that OG48 is David Bruce, but I don't think it would make any difference to me. It has been at least 6 or7 years since I tasted either Patz and Hall or David Bruce.
I have to admit it was a lot of words about something of little consequence, but something in me just couldn't leave the additional information unshared.

Still, I know what you mean. I'm really just glad it's drinking so well. Thanks for the tasting notes Eric! [cheers.gif]
Last edited by <hr!s.L on November 18th, 2020, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7243 Post by <hr!s.L » November 18th, 2020, 2:32 pm

Eric White wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Interesting analysis - the only thing that does seem to match up is the price. I don't see where any David Bruce wines come close to Cam's claim:

"Retailing for well north of $60/bottle at the winery"
Somebody is going to have to break into the tasting room (assuming it's closed through the pandemic) and get to the bottom of this
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7244 Post by MatthewT » November 18th, 2020, 2:43 pm

<hr!s.L wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 2:32 pm
Eric White wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Interesting analysis - the only thing that does seem to match up is the price. I don't see where any David Bruce wines come close to Cam's claim:

"Retailing for well north of $60/bottle at the winery"
Somebody is going to have to break into the tasting room (assuming it's closed through the pandemic) and get to the bottom of this
Right? lol. I mean we don't know what it is there as it's always inflated.
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Chris Crutchfield
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7245 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 18th, 2020, 2:52 pm

As an aside, we should give some major props to Cam and the team for working through fulfillment hell and getting all of these orders shipped out. I know it's not over yet, but from his e-mail it sounds like the vast majority of the backlog will be whittled down by the end of next week. I know some people are going to bitch and moan about how it never should have gotten this bad in the first place, but for a rather small operation just starting out, scaling up the backend like this is no simple task.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#7246 Post by MatthewT » November 18th, 2020, 2:59 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 2:52 pm
As an aside, we should give some major props to Cam and the team for working through fulfillment hell and getting all of these orders shipped out. I know it's not over yet, but from his e-mail it sounds like the vast majority of the backlog will be whittled down by the end of next week. I know some people are going to bitch and moan about how it never should have gotten this bad in the first place, but for a rather small operation just starting out, scaling up the backend like this is no simple task.
Are we sure Chris isn't really Cam? Seems suspicious.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7247 Post by Peter C. » November 18th, 2020, 3:00 pm

Received N25 just now and Pobega’d one. 49 arriving Friday.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7248 Post by Allen Z » November 18th, 2020, 3:14 pm

Did I miss Cam sharing when N 78 was bottled? I am set to receive it tomorrow but have no idea how long it will be shocked for.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7249 Post by PeterH » November 18th, 2020, 3:15 pm

Re: David Bruce "Retailing for well north of $60/bottle at the winery".

The vineyard in question is somewhat new for David Bruce, and apparently being sold as a vineyard designate wine. The only other single vineyard wine from David Bruce that I can find is the Santa Cruz Estate. Latest price I found was $55 suggested retail.
The David Bruce website is hopelessly out of date and is no help. I can't find a vineyard designate reviewed or priced, so I can't rule out a $60+ price from a vineyard in close proximity to a number of Pinot Noir sites that do have wines above $60.
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Eric White
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Re: de Negoce offer

#7250 Post by Eric White » November 18th, 2020, 3:18 pm

There's also this:
Screen Shot 2020-11-18 at 3.17.38 PM.png

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