de Negoce offer

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Rodrigo B
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5751 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 1:03 pm

Martin Ray cab usually has way more new oak ok it than the #67
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J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5752 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 13th, 2020, 1:08 pm

L Harris wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 1:02 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 12:59 pm
L Harris wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 12:53 pm
Not a ton of cases made in 2017, so that may rule this out but:
https://lahondawinery.com/wine/2017-salinian-cabernet/
I'm with you on this one.
Consistent 89 point scores recently on WE, might explain why Cam didn't mention any scores if its this one too:
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/la+h ... nia+usa#t3
Yup. But hey, you never know about the next vintage!

In for one. Love Santa Cruz Mountains and the work that some of the producers there are doing.
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Timothy B a l l a r d
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5753 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d » October 13th, 2020, 1:17 pm

Rodrigo - right about Martin Ray- Fellom is near Los Altos though. LaHonda winery uses Hugarian oak on Salinian Cab too.

This could be good Mtn Cab, but LaHonda states 4-6 years cellaring vs Cam says through 2031.

Have plenty of SCM Cabs fom my years at Fernwood Cellars. Pass.

Cheers, Tim

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5754 Post by Robert S.R. » October 13th, 2020, 1:23 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 12:17 pm
ValerieA wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 11:12 am
Any shipping at all yesterday? I’m hoping to get most before I leave town next week. No communication at all.WTF?
My N.15 shipped.
According to my receipts 5 cases of the wine I purchased was supposed to be shipped yesterday. I sent an email this morning asking for an update but so far no response!!
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J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5755 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 13th, 2020, 1:27 pm

Robert S.R. wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 1:23 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 12:17 pm
ValerieA wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 11:12 am
Any shipping at all yesterday? I’m hoping to get most before I leave town next week. No communication at all.WTF?
My N.15 shipped.
According to my receipts 5 cases of the wine I purchased was supposed to be shipped yesterday. I sent an email this morning asking for an update but so far no response!!
I have a couple of labels generated that were "scheduled" to ship last week. I use quotes because I'm pretty sure UPS estimates that date from when the label was created and I've seen it happen with other packages from places like Home Depot. Maybe someone else has better info on this though.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5756 Post by David Buck » October 13th, 2020, 1:34 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 1:27 pm
Robert S.R. wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 1:23 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 12:17 pm


My N.15 shipped.
According to my receipts 5 cases of the wine I purchased was supposed to be shipped yesterday. I sent an email this morning asking for an update but so far no response!!
I have a couple of labels generated that were "scheduled" to ship last week. I use quotes because I'm pretty sure UPS estimates that date from when the label was created and I've seen it happen with other packages from places like Home Depot. Maybe someone else has better info on this though.
Correct.. Just because UPS MyChoice shows the label being created that just means it spit out of the Wine Country UPS machine and is on the box still ready to be picked up. Could be sitting there for weeks. Not till you see "in transit" will you know its coming.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5757 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 2:06 pm

Tim- La Honda would be a much closer fit stylistically. Their Salinian blend makes reference to their “chest-thick 50+yr old vines” (which is probably the coolest description of vines I’ve seen). But I think production volumes on their wines are really small to support a 300 case bulk sale.

Given Cam’s “winery retail around $40/bottle” statement I’m not sure if we should be looking for a wine that’s in the $40-$45 range or something south of $40. I think the Hungarian oak is going to be the thing that helps narrow this down.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5758 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 13th, 2020, 2:23 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Tim- La Honda would be a much closer fit stylistically. Their Salinian blend makes reference to their “chest-thick 50+yr old vines” (which is probably the coolest description of vines I’ve seen). But I think production volumes on their wines are really small to support a 300 case bulk sale.
La Honda retailed for $38 and uses Hungarian oak. ABV is on, but age is off.

There is no mention that La Honda is estate, so they could conceivably adjust their production without a ton of hassle and we have little knowlegde of how much they bulk out normally (if at all). Given the price reductions on 2017 I've seen at other sellers, maybe they aren't expecting much demand for the 2018. I don't think ~300 cases is that much of a stretch.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5759 Post by L Harris » October 13th, 2020, 2:42 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Tim- La Honda would be a much closer fit stylistically. Their Salinian blend makes reference to their “chest-thick 50+yr old vines” (which is probably the coolest description of vines I’ve seen). But I think production volumes on their wines are really small to support a 300 case bulk sale.
La Honda retailed for $38 and uses Hungarian oak. ABV is on, but age is off.

There is no mention that La Honda is estate, so they could conceivably adjust their production without a ton of hassle and we have little knowlegde of how much they bulk out normally (if at all). Given the price reductions on 2017 I've seen at other sellers, maybe they aren't expecting much demand for the 2018. I don't think ~300 cases is that much of a stretch.
Agree, and they have Cab grapes in some of their other wines, so they may have enough Cab production to support additional cases, particularly in 2018 when from all I've heard on this board it was a bumper harvest (assume that is true in SCM as well). Still see volume as the biggest thing that makes me question La Honda, but I think all the other stuff is pretty compelling. From an age perspective - Cam may just have his own views on the aging - his 2021-2031 may just be a marketing push, and isn't so different from 4-6 years (adding +-3 years). Even some of the tasting notes match (albeit these are somewhat generic) - mentions of cherry, rose petals, plums etc.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5760 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Tim- La Honda would be a much closer fit stylistically. Their Salinian blend makes reference to their “chest-thick 50+yr old vines” (which is probably the coolest description of vines I’ve seen). But I think production volumes on their wines are really small to support a 300 case bulk sale.
La Honda retailed for $38 and uses Hungarian oak. ABV is on, but age is off.

There is no mention that La Honda is estate, so they could conceivably adjust their production without a ton of hassle and we have little knowlegde of how much they bulk out normally (if at all). Given the price reductions on 2017 I've seen at other sellers, maybe they aren't expecting much demand for the 2018. I don't think ~300 cases is that much of a stretch.
Does La Honda has estate vines? I couldn’t find any references to it on their website. Their other cab, Lonehawk does have a 10 year cellar time, but only a 50 case production.


Some minor tasting notes overlap between d, but not much. Make of that what you will:

From dN:
Deep ruby with a medium purple hue around the rim. Nervy black cherry and red currant fruit are halo'd by a lovely perfume of dried rose petals, sage and loam. Firm, on entry with juicy, lively acidity carrying a mix of plums and red fruits melded with perfectly integrated tannins in a long, elegant finish.

From La Honda 2017 Salinian:
A classic example of mountain-grown Cabernet Sauvignon. Dusty dried cherries, fresh pomegranate, rose petals and juniper berries aromatically infuse for an intoxicating bouquet. Elegant and firm, the lignified tannins mix with bright acidity to deliver fleshy red plums and blueberries in a supple finish.

Kinda interesting, the people that own La Honda run a similar venture to Cam called Hunt & Heist. Not that unlikely that they crossed paths at some point in the bulk game, they may even have influenced Cam is his by the case only policy for dN as Hunt & Heist is by the half case only.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5761 Post by Andy P. » October 13th, 2020, 2:50 pm

L Harris wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:42 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Tim- La Honda would be a much closer fit stylistically. Their Salinian blend makes reference to their “chest-thick 50+yr old vines” (which is probably the coolest description of vines I’ve seen). But I think production volumes on their wines are really small to support a 300 case bulk sale.
La Honda retailed for $38 and uses Hungarian oak. ABV is on, but age is off.

There is no mention that La Honda is estate, so they could conceivably adjust their production without a ton of hassle and we have little knowlegde of how much they bulk out normally (if at all). Given the price reductions on 2017 I've seen at other sellers, maybe they aren't expecting much demand for the 2018. I don't think ~300 cases is that much of a stretch.
Agree, and they have Cab grapes in some of their other wines, so they may have enough Cab production to support additional cases, particularly in 2018 when from all I've heard on this board it was a bumper harvest (assume that is true in SCM as well). Still see volume as the biggest thing that makes me question La Honda, but I think all the other stuff is pretty compelling. From an age perspective - Cam may just have his own views on the aging - his 2021-2031 may just be a marketing push, and isn't so different from 4-6 years (adding +-3 years). Even some of the tasting notes match (albeit these are somewhat generic) - mentions of cherry, rose petals, plums etc.
2017 production was 584 cases and used French and Hungarian Oak, 13.8% ABV as noted above
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5762 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d » October 13th, 2020, 2:53 pm

Estate wines can be a) in same appellation as winery, b)owned or leased or managed by winery making wines. We made "Estate" wine at Fernwood by managing small vineyard lots all over SCM region- Los Altos, Saratoga, Monte Sereno, Gilroy.

Thus LaHonda has several "estate" vineyards in SCM area. Their 2017 Salinian had 584 cases. 2018 maybe more available or they could be declassifying juice to Cam and using best juice for their blend.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5763 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 3:03 pm

Thanks for shedding some light on this Tim. That’s really helpful to know.

If La Honda could potentially support a 250-300 case offer, then I think they’re the closest fit we have so far. Didn’t find many Santa Cruz Mnt producers using Hungarian oak. Anyone know what La Honda’s Salinian cab retails for at direct at the winery to compare to Cam’s listed price?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5764 Post by ScottieB » October 13th, 2020, 3:08 pm

Details on the La Honda Salinian Cab 2017 below. I know the SC Mountains Area and there are not that many commercial vineyards in Los Altos Hills, and far fewer (if any) with 50+ yr old vines. I looked at their vineyard map and their Los Altos Hills vineyards are in the mountains.

Almost 600 cases in 2017, so with 2018 being a more bountiful year DN's 250 cases is in the range.

ABV in the range.

Pretty strong signals that La Honda is it.

HARVESTED: September 12 – October 5, 2017
VINEYARD LOCATION: Los Altos Hills (chest-thick 50+yr old vines), Saratoga, Los Gatos.
SOILS: ranging from deep clay to sandy loam to broken granite
BOTTLED: May 2019, 584 cases
COMPOSITION: 100% Cabernet Sauvignon
ALCOHOL: 13.8%

https://lahondawinery.com/wine/2017-salinian-cabernet/
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5765 Post by ScottieB » October 13th, 2020, 3:23 pm

More evidence that it's LaHonda:

2017 La Honda Tasting Notes:
A classic example of mountain-grown Cabernet Sauvignon. Dusty dried cherries, fresh pomegranate, rose petals and juniper berries aromatically infuse for an intoxicating bouquet. Elegant and firm, the lignified tannins mix with bright acidity to deliver fleshy red plums and blueberries in a supple finish.

DN Description
Today's release is classic example of mountain-grown Cabernet...Deep ruby with a medium purple hue around the rim. Nervy black cherry and red currant fruit are halo'd by a lovely perfume of dried rose petals, sage and loam. Firm, on entry with juicy, lively acidity carrying a mix of plums and red fruits melded with perfectly integrated tannins in a long, elegant finish.

BINGO!!!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5766 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 13th, 2020, 4:14 pm

Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:53 pm
Estate wines can be a) in same appellation as winery, b)owned or leased or managed by winery making wines. We made "Estate" wine at Fernwood by managing small vineyard lots all over SCM region- Los Altos, Saratoga, Monte Sereno, Gilroy.
I think you forgot the 'and' between your two points.

There is no regulated "estate" term, though generally, it means under the control of the producer. I guess you could conceivably have an "estate" California Red Wine, blended from say Sonoma and Napa grapes.

As for "estate bottled", emphasis mine:
"In the USA, the term ‘estate bottled’ is defined by law and the wine must have been made and bottled at the producer’s winery, and from grapes from vineyards owned or controlled by the producer that are within the same viticultural area as the winery."

https://www.winemag.com/2020/01/28/is-e ... ne-better/
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5767 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 13th, 2020, 4:27 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Their other cab, Lonehawk does have a 10 year cellar time, but only a 50 case production.
Sorry, when I said age, I meant time in barrel and not aging potential. Their website says 18mo vs. 22mo that dN states.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5768 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 4:44 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 4:27 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Their other cab, Lonehawk does have a 10 year cellar time, but only a 50 case production.
Sorry, when I said age, I meant time in barrel and not aging potential. Their website says 18mo vs. 22mo that dN states.
My comment was more meant towards some of the other comments on the the Salinian cellar potential vs. Cam’s listed one. I was noting that while the Salinian cab notes 4-6 years the Lonehawk notes 10+ years of potential cellar time. To your note on the Lonehawk bottling does see 22 months of oak ageing, though no mention of Hungarian oak. I think 18 or 22 months oak ageing and 20-30% new oak are in the same wheelhouse stylistically speaking.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5769 Post by Sean_S » October 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 4:44 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 4:27 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Their other cab, Lonehawk does have a 10 year cellar time, but only a 50 case production.
Sorry, when I said age, I meant time in barrel and not aging potential. Their website says 18mo vs. 22mo that dN states.
My comment was more meant towards some of the other comments on the the Salinian cellar potential vs. Cam’s listed one. I was noting that while the Salinian cab notes 4-6 years the Lonehawk notes 10+ years of potential cellar time. To your note on the Lonehawk bottling does see 22 months of oak ageing, though no mention of Hungarian oak. I think 18 or 22 months oak ageing and 20-30% new oak are in the same wheelhouse stylistically speaking.
Side note: I know the Lone Hawk Cabernet very well. Close friends of ours are part owners of that vineyard. Its in a McMansion silicon valley neighborhood way up in the Saratoga Hills right next to Mountain Winery and very close to Mount Eden. Most of the production goes back to the land owners and La Honda gets to keep some for their troubles which they blend and sell. The La Honda lonehawk has some minor blending going on where as the owners wine is 100% Cabernet. The thing that makes me laugh is the drinking window. It certainly varies from vintage to vintage but I had an 08 last year that needed another 5-10 before it enters its prime drinking window. Based on my palate and having drank lots of them over the year they are 20-30 year wines. That 08 might be a 50 year wine (serious tannins).

Sean
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5770 Post by Sean_S » October 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 4:44 pm
J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 4:27 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Their other cab, Lonehawk does have a 10 year cellar time, but only a 50 case production.
Sorry, when I said age, I meant time in barrel and not aging potential. Their website says 18mo vs. 22mo that dN states.
My comment was more meant towards some of the other comments on the the Salinian cellar potential vs. Cam’s listed one. I was noting that while the Salinian cab notes 4-6 years the Lonehawk notes 10+ years of potential cellar time. To your note on the Lonehawk bottling does see 22 months of oak ageing, though no mention of Hungarian oak. I think 18 or 22 months oak ageing and 20-30% new oak are in the same wheelhouse stylistically speaking.
Side note: I know the Lone Hawk Cabernet very well. Close friends of ours are part owners of that vineyard. Its in a McMansion silicon valley neighborhood way up in the Saratoga Hills right next to Mountain Winery and very close to Mount Eden. Most of the production goes back to the land owners and La Honda gets to keep some for their troubles which they blend and sell. The La Honda lonehawk has some minor blending going on where as the owners wine is 100% Cabernet. The thing that makes me laugh is the drinking window. It certainly varies from vintage to vintage but I had an 08 last year that needed another 5-10 before it enters its prime drinking window. Based on my palate and having drank lots of them over the year they are 20-30 year wines. That 08 might be a 50 year wine (serious tannins). Anyway drinking windows are very subjective and really hard to nail down without the benefit of hindsight.

Sean
CT: Seanwsmithm3
Santa Cruz Mountains, CA

2020 WOTY Candidates
1994 Ravenswood Petite Sirah Sonoma County
1995 Williams Selyem Pinot Noir Summa Vineyard

Rodrigo B
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5771 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 5:35 pm

Sean_S wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Side note: I know the Lone Hawk Cabernet very well. Close friends of ours are part owners of that vineyard. Its in a McMansion silicon valley neighborhood way up in the Saratoga Hills right next to Mountain Winery and very close to Mount Eden. Most of the production goes back to the land owners and La Honda gets to keep some for their troubles which they blend and sell. The La Honda lonehawk has some minor blending going on where as the owners wine is 100% Cabernet. The thing that makes me laugh is the drinking window. It certainly varies from vintage to vintage but I had an 08 last year that needed another 5-10 before it enters its prime drinking window. Based on my palate and having drank lots of them over the year they are 20-30 year wines. That 08 might be a 50 year wine (serious tannins). Anyway drinking windows are very subjective and really hard to nail down without the benefit of hindsight.

Sean
Drinking windows are beyond subjective, especially if you’re particular about where in the wine’s development curve you like to drink.

Since I’m not too familiar with Cam’s palate, and these are all “unknown” wines, I’m going to be cracking up a bottle of each of my offerings after they arrive and assessing drinking windows independently, as should everyone really.

On the hindsight note, the way I approach if if purchasing by the case, as is the case with dN, I always assess a bottle relatively early on and make a preliminary judgement on when I'd like to start going through the rest of the case. Then I open another bottle that's in line with my presumed drinking window and reevaluate. If it's hitting hitting the point I’m looking for I just go to town on the rest of the case, and reserve two bottles to see how it develops post that (i.e. to confirm if I drank most of them in the right window or if they could have benefited from some more time).
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5772 Post by K Kl@dder » October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm

Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5773 Post by David Crow » October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5774 Post by Selene W » October 13th, 2020, 6:56 pm

I got #21 last week (in SF Bay Area).
Selene

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5775 Post by K Kl@dder » October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm

David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home
K e i t h

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5776 Post by Aleks V » October 13th, 2020, 7:03 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm
David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home

Still waiting on #17. I’m in the NE. The conflicting / unclear communication has been frustrating to say the least
Oy-V3y

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5777 Post by Michael Martin » October 13th, 2020, 7:05 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm
David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home
UPS MyChoice is your friend. You never have to be home.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5778 Post by James Mc » October 13th, 2020, 7:06 pm

Log into your account and look at your orders. If it says unfulfilled then it is not in transit yet/label not printed. If its fulfilled, click in and you should see tracking number.
McCormick Seasonings

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5779 Post by Chris Johnson » October 13th, 2020, 7:40 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
Yes, I received mine on Fri.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5780 Post by Michael Feldman » October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:05 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm
David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm


I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home
UPS MyChoice is your friend. You never have to be home.
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5781 Post by DavidChang » October 13th, 2020, 8:27 pm

For No. 67 I am pretty sure it is Portola Vineyards' cab

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5782 Post by Michael Martin » October 13th, 2020, 8:30 pm

Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:05 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm


I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home
UPS MyChoice is your friend. You never have to be home.
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
For no additional charge, you can redirect them for delivery to another UPS access point so you can pick up at your convenience.

Chris Crutchfield
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5783 Post by Chris Crutchfield » October 13th, 2020, 9:17 pm

Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
Your question was already answered, but I haven't had to sign for a package a single time since COVID started. Both my fedex and ups guys just drop it off and ring the doorbell. Have you been having to sign for alcohol still?

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Sean_S
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5784 Post by Sean_S » October 13th, 2020, 9:18 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 5:35 pm
Sean_S wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Side note: I know the Lone Hawk Cabernet very well. Close friends of ours are part owners of that vineyard. Its in a McMansion silicon valley neighborhood way up in the Saratoga Hills right next to Mountain Winery and very close to Mount Eden. Most of the production goes back to the land owners and La Honda gets to keep some for their troubles which they blend and sell. The La Honda lonehawk has some minor blending going on where as the owners wine is 100% Cabernet. The thing that makes me laugh is the drinking window. It certainly varies from vintage to vintage but I had an 08 last year that needed another 5-10 before it enters its prime drinking window. Based on my palate and having drank lots of them over the year they are 20-30 year wines. That 08 might be a 50 year wine (serious tannins). Anyway drinking windows are very subjective and really hard to nail down without the benefit of hindsight.

Sean
Drinking windows are beyond subjective, especially if you’re particular about where in the wine’s development curve you like to drink.

Since I’m not too familiar with Cam’s palate, and these are all “unknown” wines, I’m going to be cracking up a bottle of each of my offerings after they arrive and assessing drinking windows independently, as should everyone really.

On the hindsight note, the way I approach if if purchasing by the case, as is the case with dN, I always assess a bottle relatively early on and make a preliminary judgement on when I'd like to start going through the rest of the case. Then I open another bottle that's in line with my presumed drinking window and reevaluate. If it's hitting hitting the point I’m looking for I just go to town on the rest of the case, and reserve two bottles to see how it develops post that (i.e. to confirm if I drank most of them in the right window or if they could have benefited from some more time).
I wish I had your discipline on the drinking schedule. I try but certain things are hard to keep in stock (Goodfellow) even if I buy multiple cases. I always start with good intentions but struggle. Very excited about the soon coming Ravenswood Library offers. The last batch was drinking really well. Will help me from baby killing too many wines...

Cheers
CT: Seanwsmithm3
Santa Cruz Mountains, CA

2020 WOTY Candidates
1994 Ravenswood Petite Sirah Sonoma County
1995 Williams Selyem Pinot Noir Summa Vineyard

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5785 Post by Rodrigo B » October 13th, 2020, 9:41 pm

Sean_S wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 9:18 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 5:35 pm
Sean_S wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Side note: I know the Lone Hawk Cabernet very well. Close friends of ours are part owners of that vineyard. Its in a McMansion silicon valley neighborhood way up in the Saratoga Hills right next to Mountain Winery and very close to Mount Eden. Most of the production goes back to the land owners and La Honda gets to keep some for their troubles which they blend and sell. The La Honda lonehawk has some minor blending going on where as the owners wine is 100% Cabernet. The thing that makes me laugh is the drinking window. It certainly varies from vintage to vintage but I had an 08 last year that needed another 5-10 before it enters its prime drinking window. Based on my palate and having drank lots of them over the year they are 20-30 year wines. That 08 might be a 50 year wine (serious tannins). Anyway drinking windows are very subjective and really hard to nail down without the benefit of hindsight.

Sean
Drinking windows are beyond subjective, especially if you’re particular about where in the wine’s development curve you like to drink.

Since I’m not too familiar with Cam’s palate, and these are all “unknown” wines, I’m going to be cracking up a bottle of each of my offerings after they arrive and assessing drinking windows independently, as should everyone really.

On the hindsight note, the way I approach if if purchasing by the case, as is the case with dN, I always assess a bottle relatively early on and make a preliminary judgement on when I'd like to start going through the rest of the case. Then I open another bottle that's in line with my presumed drinking window and reevaluate. If it's hitting hitting the point I’m looking for I just go to town on the rest of the case, and reserve two bottles to see how it develops post that (i.e. to confirm if I drank most of them in the right window or if they could have benefited from some more time).
I wish I had your discipline on the drinking schedule. I try but certain things are hard to keep in stock (Goodfellow) even if I buy multiple cases. I always start with good intentions but struggle. Very excited about the soon coming Ravenswood Library offers. The last batch was drinking really well. Will help me from baby killing too many wines...

Cheers
I think I made my wine consumption sound a bit more cold and clinical than it actually is

The takeaway I was trying to get at is that people shouldn’t be afraid to consume their wines “too early” if they think the wine is drinking well at the moment. If you think the wine is drinking well, consume it at that time. If you’re afraid of missing out on its evolution, tuck away a bottle or two. Over time, you can discern if those two bottles tucked away were better or worse than the earlier ones and adjust your drinking windows for future wines. If they improve, maybe cellar the case (or however many bottles you have) for a bit longer. If the two bottles aren’t as good, then going forward drink them all earlier or just keep one.

I just really hate the whole idea of being afraid of committing infanticide in wines. If you enjoyed drinking your wines younger, that just means your personal drinking window is different than other people.
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J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5786 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 14th, 2020, 2:05 am

DavidChang wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:27 pm
For No. 67 I am pretty sure it is Portola Vineyards' cab
ABV, oak treatment, and required production are all pretty far off from that.
J @ c k

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Mark Morrissette
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5787 Post by Mark Morrissette » October 14th, 2020, 5:49 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 9:17 pm
Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
Your question was already answered, but I haven't had to sign for a package a single time since COVID started. Both my fedex and ups guys just drop it off and ring the doorbell. Have you been having to sign for alcohol still?
They don't want me to physically sign, but someone definitely has to be home. They want to see a person, who looks over 21. (And, if they have a doubt about the age, they ask for ID--I know this from my 18 to 22 year-old kids who have tried to accept packages for me.)

If no one is home, they do not leave the package. Unfortunately I have had that experience with UPS and FedEx in the past two weeks.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5788 Post by K Kl@dder » October 14th, 2020, 5:55 am

Mark Morrissette wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 5:49 am
Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 9:17 pm
Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
Your question was already answered, but I haven't had to sign for a package a single time since COVID started. Both my fedex and ups guys just drop it off and ring the doorbell. Have you been having to sign for alcohol still?
They don't want me to physically sign, but someone definitely has to be home. They want to see a person, who looks over 21. (And, if they have a doubt about the age, they ask for ID--I know this from my 18 to 22 year-old kids who have tried to accept packages for me.)

If no one is home, they do not leave the package. Unfortunately I have had that experience with UPS and FedEx in the past two weeks.
Same here, got a fedex "missed delivery" on my door the other day from a shipment that showed up a day early. Next day, was told "No need to sign" as he handed the box to me.
K e i t h

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5789 Post by Scott Jameson » October 14th, 2020, 7:05 am

Aleks V wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:03 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:01 pm
David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm


I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I thought maybe the same thing, but it would be nice to have a tracking number so I know when to be home

Still waiting on #17. I’m in the NE. The conflicting / unclear communication has been frustrating to say the least
But Cam is shipping everything out in N-number order ...

To be clear, I'm fine that my earliest orders haven't shipped yet. It will be 90+ degrees along the shipping route and here today and tomorrow, and in spite of what Cam says, I don't want my wine shipped in those temperatures. That said, I also find the communications to be troubling.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5790 Post by Sean S y d n e y » October 14th, 2020, 7:23 am

You can always see an entity's priorities when the e-mails re: communication/service go unanswered but the solicitations continue unabated.
Instagram: @seansydney

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5791 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 14th, 2020, 7:26 am

Scott Jameson wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:05 am
That said, I also find the communications to be troubling.
Very strange. I am waiting on N.20 and above. No weather issues for shipping to the midwest, and nary a mention of anything below N.24 in the email. Now, I do have two labels that have been created (weeks ago), but am due three shipments: 20, 21, and 22. So what's the deal? Does shipping mean dN has handed them off to Wine Direct or is this when they should be getting on the trucks?

For me, that email raised more questions than it answered.
J @ c k

L Harris
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5792 Post by L Harris » October 14th, 2020, 8:17 am

Still around 100 cases of 67 left it seems - this offer may eclipse 24 hours even with only 300 cases originally available! Thoughts on what this bodes, particularly for some of the other Cabs that we know are coming? Or is this just a blip based on the specific offering that isn’t likely to hold true for others?

Don’t get me wrong I still expect this will sell out in a couple days at most and that is still plenty quick for the broader model to work, just wondering if we are seeing a change in buying behavior to date.
L u k e

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5793 Post by Rodrigo B » October 14th, 2020, 8:52 am

L Harris wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 8:17 am
Still around 100 cases of 67 left it seems - this offer may eclipse 24 hours even with only 300 cases originally available! Thoughts on what this bodes, particularly for some of the other Cabs that we know are coming? Or is this just a blip based on the specific offering that isn’t likely to hold true for others?

Don’t get me wrong I still expect this will sell out in a couple days at most and that is still plenty quick for the broader model to work, just wondering if we are seeing a change in buying behavior to date.
Certainly surprising, I expected this to go much faster tbh.

It’s likely a combination of factors. First, a lot of people are likely saturated with quite a few other dN cabs so they’re not buying as much (you need need a certain amount of “unknown” CA cab by the case). Second, this isn’t one of Cam’s stronger cab offerings. A $40 cab for $12 is still a good deal, but a far cry from some of the $100 for $15-18 we’ve seen (and many have come to expect). Third, anecdotally I’ve noticed that bigger, bolder and higher ABV cabs tend to do better than lower ABV ones, so maybe it’s just an offer that’s not as widely liked by dN fans as others. Lastly, with the shipping season approaching a lot of people are likely waiting on the wines they’ve already bought to try before purchasing more by the case. The other fact

As for what this holds for future offerings, we’ll have to see. I suspect that Cam is likely to just adjust the frequency of his offers.

We just saw the introduction of the “Past Offers” feature on the site and if you dig into it you can see that the latest “past offer” is a test sku. Given that that I also suspect that Cam is working on some form of wider online store to host several open offers at once so people can browse.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5794 Post by joe d. » October 14th, 2020, 9:29 am

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:23 am
You can always see an entity's priorities when the e-mails re: communication/service go unanswered but the solicitations continue unabated.
I sent an email to inquire about long term storage, recieved a reply in less than 24 hours. " Hi Jo,

Not quite yet, we will let everyone know when we do.

Thank you,
mickey"
D0N0FR!0

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5795 Post by Sean S y d n e y » October 14th, 2020, 9:31 am

joe d. wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 9:29 am
Sean S y d n e y wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:23 am
You can always see an entity's priorities when the e-mails re: communication/service go unanswered but the solicitations continue unabated.
I sent an email to inquire about long term storage, recieved a reply in less than 24 hours. " Hi Jo,

Not quite yet, we will let everyone know when we do.

Thank you,
mickey"
Good to hear.
Instagram: @seansydney

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5796 Post by loren.grossman » October 14th, 2020, 11:26 am

Interesting that Garagiste today offers a Chehalem SV Estate pinot noir for...$19 a bottle! I am shocked! 😂 But truth be told I'd rather have the actual vintner's label 10 out of 10 times. 2014 Chahalem Olenik for those keeping score at home.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5797 Post by Robert S.R. » October 14th, 2020, 11:28 am

David Crow wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 6:44 pm
Anyone receive OG18 yet (Malbec)? Cam just sent out his shipping update and started at 24. Haven’t seen my 18 yet. Anyone else?
I was going to ask the same thing about #21. No word on shipping that one. Maybe it’s implied those are going out this week?
I sent an email yesterday after the shipping update was sent out asking about #23 but haven't heard back.
R a f f a n t i

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5798 Post by Michael Feldman » October 14th, 2020, 11:44 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 9:17 pm
Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
Your question was already answered, but I haven't had to sign for a package a single time since COVID started. Both my fedex and ups guys just drop it off and ring the doorbell. Have you been having to sign for alcohol still?
I have it shipped to a friend who is retired and yes both UPS and FedEx will not deliver unless signed for ( or at least an adult answers door).

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Re: de Negoce offer

#5799 Post by Michael Feldman » October 14th, 2020, 11:46 am

Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:30 pm
Michael Feldman wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 8:02 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
October 13th, 2020, 7:05 pm


UPS MyChoice is your friend. You never have to be home.
Are you saying that for shipments containing alcohol with UPS MyChoice you can receive without being at home? Any cost associated with this?
For no additional charge, you can redirect them for delivery to another UPS access point so you can pick up at your convenience.
I must check this out. Thanks!

J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#5800 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » October 14th, 2020, 12:15 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:26 am
Very strange. I am waiting on N.20 and above. No weather issues for shipping to the midwest, and nary a mention of anything below N.24 in the email. Now, I do have two labels that have been created (weeks ago), but am due three shipments: 20, 21, and 22. So what's the deal? Does shipping mean dN has handed them off to Wine Direct or is this when they should be getting on the trucks?

For me, that email raised more questions than it answered.
Got an email that the ones I mentioned will also ship (East) next week. Hope that helps clear it up for anyone still waiting on 23 and below.
J @ c k

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