de Negoce offer

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Jonah P
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4301 Post by Jonah P » September 21st, 2020, 1:51 pm

R&R Louer has the exact scores, barrel fermentation, high ABV and a believable price point. I think this is as good a fit as we'll find. I don't know about the blend or the output to support this release, but those seem like much smaller differences than to believe that we're getting a wine well north of $100 without Cam mentioning that in the copy.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4302 Post by Juliec » September 21st, 2020, 2:02 pm

I don’t know if wine.com is publishing wrong information, if 2016 vintage is not considered part of the last 4 vintages. 2016 Robert Parker score was 92 for Louer. How easy is it to move a 15.2-15.4% abv wine only about 2400 gallons to 16%?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4303 Post by Mike J ewesson » September 21st, 2020, 2:10 pm

Toby P wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 12:40 pm
LC00k wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 12:28 pm
Is there reason that people seem to be discounting wineries outside of St. Helena that produce a wine made of St. Helena grapes? For instance, Roberts and Rogers winery is based in Calistoga, but in their 'awards and accolades' section they list a "R&R Louer Family St Helena Cabernet Sauvignon" that has gotten 94-95 the last 4 vintages. I'm not claiming this is the answer, because abv, blend, production volume, etc. could be off, but if it were this or a similar winery that sells a 'St. Helena Cabernet Sauvignon', I personally would not feel that anything Cam wrote was misleading. I didn't see anything in the email or the description that specifically says the winery itself is from St. Helena. Am I missing something?
I think you may have nailed it! That Louer cab has 4 scores in a row 2013-2016 of 94-95 pts from Parker, uses 100% new french oak, and is barrel fermented. Now I need to go figure out if that means I should regret passing...
Erobertparker showing that only 2014 and 2015 received 94/95 point scores. 2013 was originally rated at 95 by RMP and re-rated at 93 by LPB (so 93 is showing). 2016 is just a 92 as is the 2012.

Nevertheless, the website for R&R shows 4 straight "Robert Parker" 94/95 point scores, with the 2016 listed as 95 (whereas, the WA website shows 92). Exact same tasting note, though. Somebody made a boo-boo.

K&L also reflects the following w/r/t "winemaker's notes": "The Louer Family Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon showcases the culmination of Roger Louers' vast experience farming his prized Ehlers Lane Estate Vineyard. Only the finest grapes are selected from the Louer 35 acre Estate to create this Award Winning 100% Cabernet. Barrel fermented and aged in 100% new French oak barrels produce velvety tannins & create a Cabernet lovers dream!"

Its R&R.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4304 Post by Nick F. » September 21st, 2020, 2:26 pm

whats their output? 1000 cases?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4305 Post by MatthewT » September 21st, 2020, 2:32 pm

Nick F. wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 2:26 pm
whats their output? 1000 cases?
No it's 1000s.

"The best way to acquire the wine is via their mailing list or their website. Production has grown significantly from the first 300 cases to now several thousand cases a year. For more information, and or to join the Partners Case Club, visit: www.robertsandrogers.com"

And that's not even counting the grapes/wine they sell.

http://www.napawineproject.com/robertsrogers/

I agree it's likely them and why Cam didn't put price cause a $75 or $60 for $19 aint as sexy as his other stuff he's offered.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4306 Post by Nick F. » September 21st, 2020, 2:54 pm

Interesting...nice sleuth work
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4307 Post by VidaF » September 21st, 2020, 3:06 pm

Juliec wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 2:02 pm
I don’t know if wine.com is publishing wrong information, if 2016 vintage is not considered part of the last 4 vintages. 2016 Robert Parker score was 92 for Louer. How easy is it to move a 15.2-15.4% abv wine only about 2400 gallons to 16%?
Though I don't claim to know anything about the winery, I'm not sure that score is for the same wine. On R&R's website they have the four years of 94-95 scores for their Lauer Family St. Helena Cabernet. They also show a 93+ score for the 2016 Lauer Signature Series Cabernet.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4308 Post by PeterH » September 21st, 2020, 3:14 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 2:32 pm
Nick F. wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 2:26 pm
whats their output? 1000 cases?
No it's 1000s.

"The best way to acquire the wine is via their mailing list or their website. Production has grown significantly from the first 300 cases to now several thousand cases a year. For more information, and or to join the Partners Case Club, visit: www.robertsandrogers.com"

And that's not even counting the grapes/wine they sell.

http://www.napawineproject.com/robertsrogers/

I agree it's likely them and why Cam didn't put price cause a $75 or $60 for $19 aint as sexy as his other stuff he's offered.
It's still a mystery where the other grapes came from. We might have to see if the 2018 version shows up with a dab of Merlot and Petite Verdot.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4309 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » September 21st, 2020, 3:59 pm

I would be very happy with my purchase if its R&R. Happier than if it was del dotto, even though the retail price may be lower, I like the wine better. Del Blotto does not just refer to the amount of alcohol they serve you, it also applies to their prices 😬.

Here is the link to the R&R page with the RP scores that match what Cam sent.

https://store.robertsandrogers.com/awards-and-accolades

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4310 Post by Andreas Birnik » September 21st, 2020, 4:03 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 8:48 am
Andreas Birnik wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 8:20 am
Hello Everyone,

When the private label deals popped up, a few of us in Singapore felt that we wanted to join the party. So we got together with a friend in the SF Bay Area to put private label wine orders in storage and ship them to Singapore in a reefer at the end of October. More and more people heard about this and we now have 197 cases ordered for the upcoming shipment. In the beginning, we just connected people who wanted to split cases but after a while this got so complicated that we hacked together a simple web app that we called Case Splitter for people to indicate their wine preferences and have a geographical proximity slider using zip codes and the Google Map API. I’ve seen on Wine Berserkers that many in America seem to be looking for case splitting partners in different parts of the country and struggle to find them. Since we’ve built this simple app anyway, I thought we might as well make it available to you to see if it can help you to find case splitting partners where you live. The way it works is that you first register and then send out e-mails that goes to people within geographic proximity of you. So the first person to register won’t get any immediate hits but that will follow as more people sign-up in the same geographic area.

http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case
Very cool, Andreas! Thanks for sharing. I signed up.
Thanks @Chris Crutchfield. Sign-ups are now starting to happen and we have people registered to split cases in Baltimore (MD), Morgan Hill (CA), Los Gatos (CA), Humble (TX), Austin (TX), Miami (FL), New Orleans (LA), Tucson (AZ), Midlothian (VA), Springfield (VA) and San Carlos (CA).

So we are beginning to see some possible clusters forming:
SF Bay Area: Morgan Hill (CA), Los Gatos (CA) and San Carlos (CA).
Virginia: Midlothian (VA), Springfield (VA) - ok, that's a little long drive so a stretch but doable for wine lovers.
Texas: Austin (TX), Humble (TX) - another stretch but potentially doable. If there is a will, there is a way ;-)

As this database grows, you will hear from myself or my friend Matt Sutton who helps me organize our Singapore wine club.
We'll be connecting wine lovers within reasonable geographic proximity. Beyond that, you are on your own to work out how you want to split cases.

We have now proven that the Case Splitter web app works in America as well as in Singapore. But given that America is huge we'll need your help to onboard more registered users so that we can match you effectively.
And you can of course use the same functionality to find people in your area to organize tasting events for the private label wines as well.
For Singapore, we are planning a mega "Harvest Festival" when Covid-19 allows to try all the different private label wine we have ordered collectively from de Négoce, Claudine and Wine Access.

When Tinder launched, they introduced the service to sororities and fraternities at the University of Southern California to achieve initial density of users.
Our challenge is that we have people all over America interested in finding partners to split cases so we need your help to get to density to be able to link up people.

If you are interested in taking part, you can sign-up here: http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

And you can also share the link in forums and with people in your local area.
Join Case Splitter to find people in your local area to split cases of wine with or to organize local wine tasting events.
http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4311 Post by tpetty » September 21st, 2020, 4:04 pm

If it's really this, I will be plenty satisfied.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4312 Post by Chris S p i k e s » September 21st, 2020, 4:17 pm

If it's R&R, the winemaker has some pretty progressive thoughts on winemaking chemistry:

https://winesvinesanalytics.com/feature ... rry-Gnekow

He's also the winemaker at Educated Guess:

https://www.winebags.com/Interview-Educ ... s/1868.htm

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4313 Post by Tyler F. » September 21st, 2020, 4:19 pm

I looked hard at the R&R Louer yesterday night, but the blend didn't line up at all and I did not see anywhere where they used varietals that matched the final blend. Everything else lines up, but that part got to me.

Here's my sleuthing last night, haha:

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Timothy B a l l a r d
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4314 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d » September 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm

I see the R&R Cab at my local Costco routinely. Here's a K&L description:

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1240373

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4315 Post by K. Tr@n » September 21st, 2020, 6:15 pm

Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm
I see the R&R Cab at my local Costco routinely. Here's a K&L description:

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1240373
I think I saw the same from time to time. Don't remember if it's the single vineyard cab or the generic Napa Valley cab.
Costco is selling it for 28-30, right?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4316 Post by ChrisWolff » September 21st, 2020, 6:24 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 7:34 am
Alpha Omega is also a blend from different appellations, whereas OG 41 is from St Helena. However, if this is just a component of their final blend that could make sense and perhaps account for the higher alcohol.

I know some here are convinced this is the final winery blend, but I don’t know if I would read Cam’s description quite so literally. Seems like this could be a key component of the blend and he still uses the scores as a rough proxy.

Interesting also this one hasn’t sold out yet. I know it’s 1,000 cases but for strong offers like this I think they were mostly moving within a few hours.
Why would the winery bottle it? Wouldn’t they just sell the bulk juice?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4317 Post by Kris Patten » September 21st, 2020, 7:09 pm

Little help, unlike usual all the wines are going thru Bin to Bottle and Napa Wine Company, so either Cam is having them purchase on his behalf to hide source or these are all custom crush wines.

https://ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewC ... 9001000268
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4318 Post by Andreas Birnik » September 21st, 2020, 10:47 pm

Here is an update on the progress with the Case Splitter web app to connect people wanting to split cases.

http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

We are beginning to get density of users in the following areas:

• SF Bay Area (SF, Oakland, San Carlos, Menlo Park, Los Gatos, Morgan Hill, Foster City)
• San Antonio (TX) + Austin (TX)
• Houston (TX)
• Baltimore (MD) + Washington DC + Richmond (VA)
• Possibly a stretch cluster from Cleveland (OH) to Pittsburgh (PA)

I have connected everyone within the above clusters via e-mail so please check your junk mail folders in case you haven’t noticed an e-mail from me.

We then have isolated Case Splitters in the following locations so we need more people to sign-up so that we can match them:

• Los Angeles (CA)
• Las Vegas (NV)
• Tucson (AZ)
• Boston (MA)
• New York City (NY)
• Miami (FL)
• New Orleans (LA)

With Covid-19, I cannot travel but I am for sure improving my knowledge of US geography. And it is fun in case we can get case splitting going and have people come together for private label tasting parties, with wines from Claudine, de Négoce and Wine Access, once the Covid-19 situation permits this to happen.
Join Case Splitter to find people in your local area to split cases of wine with or to organize local wine tasting events.
http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4319 Post by john mccarty » September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 am

K. Tr@n wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 6:15 pm
Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm
I see the R&R Cab at my local Costco routinely. Here's a K&L description:

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1240373
Costco is selling it for 28-30, right?
Wrong.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4320 Post by David Buck » September 22nd, 2020, 7:56 am

Its an offer day! Betting #62 Chardonnay

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4321 Post by Jonah P » September 22nd, 2020, 8:09 am

john mccarty wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 am
K. Tr@n wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 6:15 pm
Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm
I see the R&R Cab at my local Costco routinely. Here's a K&L description:

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1240373
Costco is selling it for 28-30, right?
Wrong.
I rarely see anything more than 30% off at Costco, but i don't look that hard. It does seem like this wine is discounted at times, but only in the $40-60 range. You must have seen a lesser R&R.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4322 Post by Rodrigo B » September 22nd, 2020, 8:10 am

David Buck wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 7:56 am
Its an offer day! Betting #62 Chardonnay
Would love to see more whites on offer.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4323 Post by Peter C. » September 22nd, 2020, 8:28 am

I could use a 17% alc Cabernet.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4324 Post by MatthewT » September 22nd, 2020, 8:31 am

Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 8:28 am
I could use a 17% alc Cabernet.
i lol'd.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4325 Post by JonathanG » September 22nd, 2020, 10:32 am

Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 8:28 am
I could use a 17% alc Cabernet.
LOL. I'd be in for a bottle just to see what it tasted like.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4326 Post by Rodrigo B » September 22nd, 2020, 10:43 am

#41 seems to be back up if anyone is still interested
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4327 Post by Chris Crutchfield » September 22nd, 2020, 10:47 am

JonathanG wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 10:32 am
Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 8:28 am
I could use a 17% alc Cabernet.
LOL. I'd be in for a bottle just to see what it tasted like.
Might as well just buy some Port at that point.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4328 Post by Peter C. » September 22nd, 2020, 11:11 am

Haha, indeed!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4329 Post by Mark Morrissette » September 22nd, 2020, 11:44 am

NEW LISTING is up: #49

Cabernet, Alexander Valley. $50++ for $10 offer

https://www.denegoce.com/products/og-n- ... a612&_ss=r

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4330 Post by Jonah P » September 22nd, 2020, 11:45 am

The price is right, but I'll probably pass for space reasons. I do like buying the first case though, so fresh.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4331 Post by MatthewT » September 22nd, 2020, 11:46 am

Passing, only going for the higher end stuff going forward.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4332 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » September 22nd, 2020, 11:58 am

Note that he added "producers blend" to the specs for this one. Wonder if he'll denote that going forward for all releases.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4333 Post by michael_holmstrom » September 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am

Alexander Valley Vineyards? I think they are certified organic. Got a 90 Point Score in 2016, not sure about 2017.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4334 Post by Jonah P » September 22nd, 2020, 12:04 pm

michael_holmstrom wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am
Alexander Valley Vineyards? I think they are certified organic. Got a 90 Point Score in 2016, not sure about 2017.
Doesn't seem like a fit on price or blend. It shouldn't be too hard to find an alexander valley cab with sauvignon blanc in the blend. Let's go super sleuths!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4335 Post by JonathanG » September 22nd, 2020, 12:08 pm

In for 2 cases! Cam, please note that MatthewT's support is wavering, but I am staying strong. Please ensure I am above him when you send out the special secret offer of declassified MacDonald next week.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4336 Post by Eric White » September 22nd, 2020, 12:13 pm

4% Sauvignon Blanc? Srsly? This has got to be a typo

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4337 Post by Peter C. » September 22nd, 2020, 12:14 pm

Mark Morrissette wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 11:44 am
NEW LISTING is up: #49

Cabernet, Alexander Valley. $50++ for $10 offer

https://www.denegoce.com/products/og-n- ... a612&_ss=r
I bit. Sounds like a nice fit for my palate and I enjoy stuff like Alexander Valley Vineyards at this price point.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4338 Post by Eric Michels » September 22nd, 2020, 12:14 pm

Medlock Ames - 2017 was 14.6% and had a 90 from Wine Advocate. $54. Web page states that their philosophy is to leave most of the their land in its natural state.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4339 Post by Jim Stewart » September 22nd, 2020, 12:18 pm

So Cameron Hughes has both the old "Lot" portfolio and this newer "de Negoce" going on simultaneously or has he moved entirely to the DN venture? I am rarely a buyer of a case of a single wine so, DN might not work for me. I have enjoyed some CH Lot # bottlings in the past, especially Lot 630 that was a 2015 Zinfandel that was ~$15. I am starting to follow this thread to keep open the possibility of a Zin offer appearing that overcomes my case purchase reluctance.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4340 Post by Mitch P » September 22nd, 2020, 12:20 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:18 pm
So Cameron Hughes has both the old "Lot" portfolio and this newer "de Negoce" going on simultaneously or has he moved entirely to the DN venture? I am rarely a buyer of a case of a single wine so, DN might not work for me. I have enjoyed some CH Lot # bottlings in the past, especially Lot 630 that was a 2015 Zinfandel that was ~$15. I am starting to follow this thread to keep open the possibility of a Zin offer appearing that overcomes my case purchase reluctance.
I believe he sold his “Lot” portfolio in 2017.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4341 Post by JonathanG » September 22nd, 2020, 12:22 pm

I don't recall but I think this was addressed somewhere in the middle of this massive thread. I think he no longer owns CHwines.com but was acting as a consultant, and someone speculated his time consulting for CHWine ended hence this new venture (otherwise one would think it would be a conflict of interest?).

Also look upstream a few posts, there is a way to sign up for a splitting group in your area to help you buy in smaller increments.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4342 Post by Josh Grossman » September 22nd, 2020, 12:25 pm

4% Sauvignon Blanc?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#4343 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » September 22nd, 2020, 12:25 pm

Eric Michels wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:14 pm
Medlock Ames - 2017 was 14.6% and had a 90 from Wine Advocate. $54. Web page states that their philosophy is to leave most of the their land in its natural state.
I second this guess. Their website doesn't break out the blend either, so it certainly can't be eliminated.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4344 Post by Peter C. » September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm

I thought the Sav Blanc was a typo. Matt T can you get on your batphone and ask Cam? :)
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4345 Post by Toby P » September 22nd, 2020, 12:35 pm

J. Patrick Lynch wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:25 pm
Eric Michels wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:14 pm
Medlock Ames - 2017 was 14.6% and had a 90 from Wine Advocate. $54. Web page states that their philosophy is to leave most of the their land in its natural state.
I second this guess. Their website doesn't break out the blend either, so it certainly can't be eliminated.
Seems reasonable, maybe a nitpick that $54 doesn't constitute "well in excess of $50" though. They also say it's small production, so an extra 500 cases may be a stretch. But I think read elsewhere the overall winery produces like 8k cases so who knows. Cam doesn't explicitly say if it's the same winery blend but I think it's implied by the language of score / this year's bottling?

This one is moving surprisingly fast, already down to ~150 cases! Leaning towards pass
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Rodrigo B
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4346 Post by Rodrigo B » September 22nd, 2020, 12:35 pm

Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm
I thought the Sav Blanc was a typo. Matt T can you get on your batphone and ask Cam? :)
Batphone? I thought Matt had Cam's direct line on speed dial neener
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Josh Grossman
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4347 Post by Josh Grossman » September 22nd, 2020, 12:38 pm

Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm
I thought the Sav Blanc was a typo. Matt T can you get on your batphone and ask Cam? :)
I don't think so. It adds up to 100%... I can only think that would be gross. Just a little bit of cat pee?

Peter C.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4348 Post by Peter C. » September 22nd, 2020, 12:38 pm

Medlock looks like a lock. I’ll see myself out.

https://www.medlockames.com/product/201 ... maxRows=18&
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Toby P
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4349 Post by Toby P » September 22nd, 2020, 12:42 pm

Gotta be Medlock, from Cam's email: "These folks clearly love their land and have left much of this large parcel in its natural wild state." From the below link: "Only 55 of Medlock Ames’ 338 acres are farmed; the majority of land has been deliberately left in a natural state – leaving much of their acreage for oaks and wildflowers, not vines."

A little disappointed in the "well-over $50" language to refer to $54 haha...but I guess it's not that egregious

https://alexandervalley.org/wineries/medlock-ames/
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J. Patrick Lynch
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Re: de Negoce offer

#4350 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » September 22nd, 2020, 12:42 pm

Peter C. wrote:
September 22nd, 2020, 12:38 pm
Medlock looks like a lock. I’ll see myself out.

https://www.medlockames.com/product/201 ... maxRows=18&
I don't know. Could be 90+ Cellars. [snort.gif]
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