de Negoce offer

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rsmithjr
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3701 Post by rsmithjr » September 13th, 2020, 6:22 am

He visited 5 wineries in Walla Walla and has 40 wines from there. That means larger wineries....any guesses?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3702 Post by rsmithjr » September 13th, 2020, 6:32 am

We need more tasting notes for #6 and # 8.......
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3703 Post by David Buck » September 13th, 2020, 7:15 am

Nicholas C wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 8:55 pm

- Spoke highly of the no.40 said “it’s insane was a ridiculous deal”
- By year end will have offers that have been in bottle 3-4mths, rather than being sold as futures. So will be closer to the Cameron Hughes model
Should of bought 2 cases...darn it [dash1.gif]

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3704 Post by Toby P » September 13th, 2020, 7:23 am

I assume the 40 wines from 5 wineries means we'll be getting some Cam blends, not 40 distinct offers? If it's the latter, yikes
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3705 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 7:26 am

That interview was awesome. I correctly predicted what OG stands for!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3706 Post by Nicholas C » September 13th, 2020, 7:31 am

Andrew A r n t f i e l d wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:13 am
EAScrog wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 10:12 pm
Last week I sent Bert an email about one I'd missed while I was on the road. He replied he'd "add me to the waitlist". Bert is also the name Cameron's dog...
So is Bert a real person or a pseudonym for Cameron?
I assume he is different people. He has no real reason to use a pseudonym. When I was asking them about corks a few weeks ago the first email was signed off Bert and then a follow up reply adding more info was signed off Cameron.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3707 Post by rsmithjr » September 13th, 2020, 7:41 am

Toby P wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 7:23 am
I assume the 40 wines from 5 wineries means we'll be getting some Cam blends, not 40 distinct offers? If it's the latter, yikes
I think it does mean 40 distinct offerings.....

Could there be some blendings...possibly but I think he would find it DIFFICULT to blend vis a vis logistics.

So lets hope he signed up Woodward Canyon, Andrew Will, Quicelda, etc....
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3708 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 7:47 am

How many emails is Bert going to get about #11 now?

[rofl.gif]
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3709 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 7:51 am

larry schaffer wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 8:37 pm
MatthewT wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 1:04 pm
Russ Schultz wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 1:01 pm
Drinking the N.12 Chardonnay today. Gave it to my wife who has a much better pallet than me. She loves it. Said it compares right there with her fave Rombauer Chardonnay. She's HAPPY! Which makes me look like a really smart guy.
#12 is VERY controversial too. Really the only one that has been controversial. A couple people don't like #1 but for every person who has panned it 3-4 have liked it. #17 is probably hit or miss too it seems.

Common denominator though is #1, #12, #17 are amongst the cheapest offerings. So it makes sense those would be the ones some might not like. It will be very telling when the $15-$20's show up. I have high hopes.
Do you really think that there will be a direct correlation between price paid and 'quality'? Seems too simplistic...

Cheers!
Direct correlation as in 1:1? No. Strong correlation? Yes. As the price of a bottle of wine approaches $200, I think there is a far greater chance of it being drinkable. As it approaches $1, I think there is a far greater chance of it being trash. That's all. Doesn't mean a $20 bottle of wine can't be amazing and a $100 wine lousy. And none of this even factors QPR which is incredibly important obviously.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3710 Post by Sean_S » September 13th, 2020, 8:04 am

Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:18 pm
MatthewT:
There were 2 both a little different and then a 3rd guy came into this thread with guesses that were WAY different for each wine with nothing to back it up and then vanished when we pushed back on his guesses.

I've never vanished. I'll provide this thread with some more information and why my information is provided. In the end, it's all fun and Cam is providing high quality wines at unbelievable prices IMO.

#1 Silverado :https://silveradovineyards.com/shop/ite ... -sauvignon retails $56 Cam said $55. They are large enough to have that much spare juice, vineyards located as Cam stated.
#2,3,4 "Stagecoach" derived *redacted in later notices as that name is trademarked. All agree Miner yeah?
#5 Coombsville: Possible Meteor as Cam worked with them at CH Wines, uncertain.
#6 I said JP earlier- now I'm more certain it's Cakebread https://www.cakebread.com/about/napa-winery-history go to the "1994" year and see sub AVA Cam mentions in offer. Their Cab is $75 at winery.
#7 Walt. The thread thinks Luna Reserve - if so, Cam purchased 80% of thier 1000 cases made https://www.lunavineyards.com/collatera ... Points.pdf
Walt fits producer of 44 St Helena Merlot - as it Hall Group or Kathryn Hall wines in St. Helena. Walt bought the old Roessler operation that sourced Sta Rita Hills PN vineyard designates. The appellattion PN is what did not make designates.
#8 Mt Veeder Cab: Trincheros' Cloud's Nest- Cam says it is just shy of $100, this retails for $95 and fits the Trinchero description and Cam's description
https://www.trincheronapavalley.com/win ... sauvignon/
#9 Cima Collina Hilltop PN Owner Dick Lumpkin died in spring 2019, family discontinued operations sold off wines to Cam at a discount he passed it along to us- Hilltops vineyard sold for $45 in their Carmel by the Sea tasting room. It's not Diamond T Talbott nor Ingrids- all too expensive. Sean_S agrees with me- he is local to Bay Area like me.
#11 Beringer PR Cab, sells for $175 and is legendary still- now with a Beringer once again making it.
#13 Said White Rock before, that might be #17 which is controversial here on this thread...
#15 Nickel and Nickel Merlot the vineyards and prices match website offers to Cam's description. I can't wait to try this. My good friend Marty Mathis of Kathryn Kennedy winery is nick named the "Merlot Maker" and made Lateral- I like high quality Cali Merlots.
#17 #20 (Controversary here): You said Beucanon, I said Roy Estate: my reason for that is the "Reserve level" wine at Roy is about 15.5% the vineyard with location aligned with Cam (drainage off Atlas Peak). I still don't think Cam is selling a $28 wine from Total Wines to us for $12. That said #17 could be again, White Rock- they have the French pedigree and a Reserve called "Laureate" that sells for $100. Their winery burned in Napa 2017.
#19 Mt Eden - label matched 2000' description from Cam and Jeffery Patterson is the SCM Pinot Master and pioneer https://www.mounteden.com/vintage-chart/?vint=2444
Atlas Peak series wines: 21,22, 46, 47, thread believes is Robert Craig. Ladera sold their Howell Mtn Estate in 2016, and they still produce Howell Mtn wines...it fits Cams suggested price points better than RC IMO.
Altitude Series wines we agree are Pride Mtn? Bought the Syrah- Cam mention Cote Rotie style- Pride co ferments with Viognier.

#43 said this earlier and you likely disagree as your choice is Mondavi Oakville - Schrader 2nd label Double Diamond mixed with spare St Helena juice by Cam. I say Schrader as I never once was offered a $600 bottle of wine belonging to Mondavi "Rare Reds" wine club (limited to 250 members). Cam says $600 estate Oakville source. Schrader fits that, 1000 cases would 690 cases of it from DD Oakville.
https://www.winewatch.com/previous-offe ... ry-po2271/

I'll let this stew with the thread. Off to friend's house to drink some '99 Mt Eden OV Cab (2nd last vintage) and a '01 Mt Eden Estate Cab. I'm a huge fan of SCM wines.
Cheers to everybody on this Saturday evening. Tim

I cant believe #19 is Mount Eden. If it is its the worst Pinot Noir jeffery Patterson ever made. The oak profile certainly does not taste like any mt eden wine I've ever had. Still think its a david bruce. Altitude, price, financial struggles, pioneer in the region and the variety. fits their house style much more
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3711 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 8:10 am

Timothy B a l l a r d wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:18 pm
MatthewT:
There were 2 both a little different and then a 3rd guy came into this thread with guesses that were WAY different for each wine with nothing to back it up and then vanished when we pushed back on his guesses.

I've never vanished. I'll provide this thread with some more information and why my information is provided. In the end, it's all fun and Cam is providing high quality wines at unbelievable prices IMO.

#1 Silverado :https://silveradovineyards.com/shop/ite ... -sauvignon retails $56 Cam said $55. They are large enough to have that much spare juice, vineyards located as Cam stated.
#2,3,4 "Stagecoach" derived *redacted in later notices as that name is trademarked. All agree Miner yeah?
#5 Coombsville: Possible Meteor as Cam worked with them at CH Wines, uncertain.
#6 I said JP earlier- now I'm more certain it's Cakebread https://www.cakebread.com/about/napa-winery-history go to the "1994" year and see sub AVA Cam mentions in offer. Their Cab is $75 at winery.
#7 Walt. The thread thinks Luna Reserve - if so, Cam purchased 80% of thier 1000 cases made https://www.lunavineyards.com/collatera ... Points.pdf
Walt fits producer of 44 St Helena Merlot - as it Hall Group or Kathryn Hall wines in St. Helena. Walt bought the old Roessler operation that sourced Sta Rita Hills PN vineyard designates. The appellattion PN is what did not make designates.
#8 Mt Veeder Cab: Trincheros' Cloud's Nest- Cam says it is just shy of $100, this retails for $95 and fits the Trinchero description and Cam's description
https://www.trincheronapavalley.com/win ... sauvignon/
#9 Cima Collina Hilltop PN Owner Dick Lumpkin died in spring 2019, family discontinued operations sold off wines to Cam at a discount he passed it along to us- Hilltops vineyard sold for $45 in their Carmel by the Sea tasting room. It's not Diamond T Talbott nor Ingrids- all too expensive. Sean_S agrees with me- he is local to Bay Area like me.
#11 Beringer PR Cab, sells for $175 and is legendary still- now with a Beringer once again making it.
#13 Said White Rock before, that might be #17 which is controversial here on this thread...
#15 Nickel and Nickel Merlot the vineyards and prices match website offers to Cam's description. I can't wait to try this. My good friend Marty Mathis of Kathryn Kennedy winery is nick named the "Merlot Maker" and made Lateral- I like high quality Cali Merlots.
#17 #20 (Controversary here): You said Beucanon, I said Roy Estate: my reason for that is the "Reserve level" wine at Roy is about 15.5% the vineyard with location aligned with Cam (drainage off Atlas Peak). I still don't think Cam is selling a $28 wine from Total Wines to us for $12. That said #17 could be again, White Rock- they have the French pedigree and a Reserve called "Laureate" that sells for $100. Their winery burned in Napa 2017.
#19 Mt Eden - label matched 2000' description from Cam and Jeffery Patterson is the SCM Pinot Master and pioneer https://www.mounteden.com/vintage-chart/?vint=2444
Atlas Peak series wines: 21,22, 46, 47, thread believes is Robert Craig. Ladera sold their Howell Mtn Estate in 2016, and they still produce Howell Mtn wines...it fits Cams suggested price points better than RC IMO.
Altitude Series wines we agree are Pride Mtn? Bought the Syrah- Cam mention Cote Rotie style- Pride co ferments with Viognier.

#43 said this earlier and you likely disagree as your choice is Mondavi Oakville - Schrader 2nd label Double Diamond mixed with spare St Helena juice by Cam. I say Schrader as I never once was offered a $600 bottle of wine belonging to Mondavi "Rare Reds" wine club (limited to 250 members). Cam says $600 estate Oakville source. Schrader fits that, 1000 cases would 690 cases of it from DD Oakville.
https://www.winewatch.com/previous-offe ... ry-po2271/

I'll let this stew with the thread. Off to friend's house to drink some '99 Mt Eden OV Cab (2nd last vintage) and a '01 Mt Eden Estate Cab. I'm a huge fan of SCM wines.
Cheers to everybody on this Saturday evening. Tim
Yo Tim! Sorry, didn't mean to imply you "vanished". Poor choice of words. I'll let others dispute some of these cause we already played this game with most of them. Things like #11 being Beringer cause of price are too difficult I think to even have small confidence in it.

Anyway love the enthusiasm please continue to come back with the new offerings and guesses.

Edit: Couldn't help myself, clicked your link on #8. I mean, it's nothing like #8. Different oak, no St. Helena, only makes 350 cases. Meanwhile Anthem is a dead ringer for it as I mentioned so many times already in this thread I'm not going to repeat.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3712 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am

Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/

Watching it now.

Direct link didn't work so just need to copy paste that link to view it.

EDIT some things learned:

The Atlas Peak wines come from a Hillside Howell Mountain producer (Robert Craig checks out)

#43 was supposed to be $10/bottle but I guess he changed it to $12.50, lol

#40 had 1000 cases but he never expected to sell them all that day (solves that mystery)

Many of the wines are exact winery blends all he does is bottle it (we knew this)

30 wines bought from Walla Walla with 20 more in pipe

Has secured some 2019 Cabs and part of the deal is for them to stay in barrel till March but 2019 California bulk is over for now due to fires

Makes it seem like we will still see lots of 2018 wines through year end despite the fires.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3713 Post by Jspence24 » September 13th, 2020, 9:46 am

For the walla walla guesses, L'Ecole 41 Comes to mind as a big winery that could produce on the level CH discusses (just read the notes, didn't watch the video)

Guessing we will see a lot of GSM blends in the near future from walla walla as well
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3714 Post by Toby P » September 13th, 2020, 10:17 am

Btw if I were Cam I'd consider putting together variety packs with the cases he holds back. Could put a few of the highly desired offerings in each and help move more of the higher volume / cheaper offerings. Would appeal to those who are hesitant to commit to full cases of some of the offerings. Of course, maybe he doesn't need any bells and whistles
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3715 Post by DanielP » September 13th, 2020, 10:21 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am
Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/

Watching it now.

Direct link didn't work so just need to copy paste that link to view it.

EDIT some things learned:

The Atlas Peak wines come from a Hillside Howell Mountain producer (Robert Craig checks out)
Not just a Howell Mtn producer, but a producer based out of Howell Mountain. Makes it more likely that it's Robert Craig versus Ladera which is currently based in St. Helena. Still could be Ladera though, but I think this is one wine whose producer will be obvious once the actual winery finally releases their Atlas Peak bottling

Listening to him wax poetic almost makes me regret not buying some more Atlas Peak
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3716 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 10:38 am

DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:21 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am
Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/

Watching it now.

Direct link didn't work so just need to copy paste that link to view it.

EDIT some things learned:

The Atlas Peak wines come from a Hillside Howell Mountain producer (Robert Craig checks out)
Not just a Howell Mtn producer, but a producer based out of Howell Mountain. Makes it more likely that it's Robert Craig versus Ladera which is currently based in St. Helena. Still could be Ladera though, but I think this is one wine whose producer will be obvious once the actual winery finally releases their Atlas Peak bottling

Listening to him wax poetic almost makes me regret not buying some more Atlas Peak
That will never happen with these. From the offers:

Intended to be the inaugural launch of a new appellation Cabernet to add to their $90+/bottle hillside Cabernet collection, they have since decided now is not the time to launch an addition to their lineup.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3717 Post by DanielP » September 13th, 2020, 10:46 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:38 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:21 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am
Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/

Watching it now.

Direct link didn't work so just need to copy paste that link to view it.

EDIT some things learned:

The Atlas Peak wines come from a Hillside Howell Mountain producer (Robert Craig checks out)
Not just a Howell Mtn producer, but a producer based out of Howell Mountain. Makes it more likely that it's Robert Craig versus Ladera which is currently based in St. Helena. Still could be Ladera though, but I think this is one wine whose producer will be obvious once the actual winery finally releases their Atlas Peak bottling

Listening to him wax poetic almost makes me regret not buying some more Atlas Peak
That will never happen with these. From the offers:

Intended to be the inaugural launch of a new appellation Cabernet to add to their $90+/bottle hillside Cabernet collection, they have since decided now is not the time to launch an addition to their lineup.
What do you mean? That just means that an Atlas Peak cabernet will be officially added to their lineup in a future vintage
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3718 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 10:48 am

DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:46 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:38 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:21 am


Not just a Howell Mtn producer, but a producer based out of Howell Mountain. Makes it more likely that it's Robert Craig versus Ladera which is currently based in St. Helena. Still could be Ladera though, but I think this is one wine whose producer will be obvious once the actual winery finally releases their Atlas Peak bottling

Listening to him wax poetic almost makes me regret not buying some more Atlas Peak
That will never happen with these. From the offers:

Intended to be the inaugural launch of a new appellation Cabernet to add to their $90+/bottle hillside Cabernet collection, they have since decided now is not the time to launch an addition to their lineup.
What do you mean? That just means that an Atlas Peak cabernet will be officially added to their lineup in a future vintage
Does it? They don't own the atlas peak land so remains to be seen if they will continue sourcing fruit to barrel to add it to the lineup. That said, likely they have 2019 sitting in barrels somewhere. Wonder if Cam bought those too though.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3719 Post by DanielP » September 13th, 2020, 10:50 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:48 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:46 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:38 am


That will never happen with these. From the offers:

Intended to be the inaugural launch of a new appellation Cabernet to add to their $90+/bottle hillside Cabernet collection, they have since decided now is not the time to launch an addition to their lineup.
What do you mean? That just means that an Atlas Peak cabernet will be officially added to their lineup in a future vintage
Does it? They don't own the atlas peak land so remains to be seen if they will continue sourcing fruit to barrel to add it to the lineup. That said, likely they have 2019 sitting in barrels somewhere. Wonder if Cam bought those too though.
I mean, it's not impossible. But if a winery is going to go through the trouble of sourcing the fruit and setting up contracts for a permanent addition to their cabernet lineup, it would be somewhat strange to just bail on it completely. Although not impossible given that 2020 got even crazier with all the fires

If either Ladera or Craig release an Atlas Peak cab in the coming years, I will be quite certain of the producer of these Atlas Peak cabs
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3720 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 10:55 am

DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:50 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:48 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:46 am


What do you mean? That just means that an Atlas Peak cabernet will be officially added to their lineup in a future vintage
Does it? They don't own the atlas peak land so remains to be seen if they will continue sourcing fruit to barrel to add it to the lineup. That said, likely they have 2019 sitting in barrels somewhere. Wonder if Cam bought those too though.
I mean, it's not impossible. But if a winery is going to go through the trouble of sourcing the fruit and setting up contracts for a permanent addition to their cabernet lineup, it would be somewhat strange to just bail on it completely. Although not impossible given that 2020 got even crazier with all the fires

If either Ladera or Craig release an Atlas Peak cab in the coming years, I will be quite certain of the producer of these Atlas Peak cabs
From both the offering and Cam's interview it seems no doubt the winery's estate is in Howell Mountain (not that they just produce a Howell Mountain wine) so I think that rules out Ladera.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3721 Post by James Mc » September 13th, 2020, 11:08 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 7:47 am
How many emails is Bert going to get about #11 now?

[rofl.gif]
I had emailed about #11 about a month ago and was told it would be “re-released” later on and to watch for the email. So i assume that to mean that some wines may be waitlisted, but some of the premium offers will be released later at higher prices (which we knew). To me, waitlist means same price as original offer. Re-release is with price increase.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3722 Post by Troy Stark » September 13th, 2020, 11:30 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:48 am
Does it? They don't own the atlas peak land so remains to be seen if they will continue sourcing fruit to barrel to add it to the lineup. That said, likely they have 2019 sitting in barrels somewhere. Wonder if Cam bought those too though.
High end producers typically don't contract for fruit/vineyard access 1 year at a time. Their customers want the product available every year, so these are usually multiple-year leases.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3723 Post by James Mc » September 13th, 2020, 11:31 am

EAScrog wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 9:36 pm

She said her husband doesn't care for Sauvignon Blanc because it's usually too astringent, but he loved the one on offer right now. That's the same complaint I have with SB,
but she described it as well rounded and rich, so I bought a case (still available at 9:40 pm Pacific time). It's nice to have another white to drink.
Was the SB #16 or #35?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3724 Post by ChrisWolff » September 13th, 2020, 11:42 am

K. Tr@n wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 9:38 pm
ChrisWolff wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 12:57 pm
K. Tr@n wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 10:21 am


I am not saying St helena is junk. I'm saying that 31% extra juice from St Helena is a lower quality than the Oakville juice.
Mondavi Oakville certainly needs higher than 69% of the juice from Oakville to satisfy Oakville AVA, right? And it's only selling for $35 in costco, which I don't even think it's worth $35. What do you think is the fair value for this mixed lot?

If Suckling is giving a wine 90-92, you better believe it's cooking wine. neener
Trying to guess a fair value of 2 wines that you don’t know what they are is a pretty gigantic waste of time
Buying wine that you don't know what they are is even more ludicrous than guessing the price range, don't you think? Btw, you know the upper limit, the lower limit, the source, the market value.
No I don’t. Nor do many, many others

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3725 Post by Margo Smith » September 13th, 2020, 11:46 am

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am
Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/
Thanks to Nicholas & Matthew for sharing these videos, kind of a fun weekend watch. It did strike me as somewhat of a mismatch that a majority of his releases have been cabs, but she is not really a cab fan! Makes me wish we could see another video with someone who loves cabs to have that additional perspective!

I hate to ask this question as I'm worried it will show an embarrassing amount of ignorance, but is there ever any sparkling wine in the bulk market? Is there a chance we could see bubbly in a future release? I would be super jazzed about that!

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3726 Post by Mark Morrissette » September 13th, 2020, 12:01 pm

James Mc wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 11:31 am
EAScrog wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 9:36 pm

She said her husband doesn't care for Sauvignon Blanc because it's usually too astringent, but he loved the one on offer right now. That's the same complaint I have with SB,
but she described it as well rounded and rich, so I bought a case (still available at 9:40 pm Pacific time). It's nice to have another white to drink.
Was the SB #16 or #35?
SB is #16, and I agree, it is great.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3727 Post by James Mc » September 13th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Mark Morrissette wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:01 pm
James Mc wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 11:31 am
EAScrog wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 9:36 pm

She said her husband doesn't care for Sauvignon Blanc because it's usually too astringent, but he loved the one on offer right now. That's the same complaint I have with SB,
but she described it as well rounded and rich, so I bought a case (still available at 9:40 pm Pacific time). It's nice to have another white to drink.
Was the SB #16 or #35?
SB is #16, and I agree, it is great.
Just wanted to confirm, as there were 2 SB’s. I bought #16, and let #35 pass by. Great to hear!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3728 Post by David Crow » September 13th, 2020, 12:05 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:55 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:50 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:48 am


Does it? They don't own the atlas peak land so remains to be seen if they will continue sourcing fruit to barrel to add it to the lineup. That said, likely they have 2019 sitting in barrels somewhere. Wonder if Cam bought those too though.
I mean, it's not impossible. But if a winery is going to go through the trouble of sourcing the fruit and setting up contracts for a permanent addition to their cabernet lineup, it would be somewhat strange to just bail on it completely. Although not impossible given that 2020 got even crazier with all the fires

If either Ladera or Craig release an Atlas Peak cab in the coming years, I will be quite certain of the producer of these Atlas Peak cabs
From both the offering and Cam's interview it seems no doubt the winery's estate is in Howell Mountain (not that they just produce a Howell Mountain wine) so I think that rules out Ladera.
You all seem very confident that the producer of the Atlas Peak cabs is Robert Craig. But aren’t the only things we know that they are based on Howell Mountain and known for making hillside cabs generally in the $90 range?

Seems like there are likely other producers that would fit that profile. For instance, O’Shaugnessy seems to also fit that bill (estate on Howell Mountain and they make wine from there and Mt Veeder).

I’m not saying it’s not Robert Craig, and they do fit the profile, but other producers could as well.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3729 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 12:35 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:05 pm
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:55 am
DanielP wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 10:50 am


I mean, it's not impossible. But if a winery is going to go through the trouble of sourcing the fruit and setting up contracts for a permanent addition to their cabernet lineup, it would be somewhat strange to just bail on it completely. Although not impossible given that 2020 got even crazier with all the fires

If either Ladera or Craig release an Atlas Peak cab in the coming years, I will be quite certain of the producer of these Atlas Peak cabs
From both the offering and Cam's interview it seems no doubt the winery's estate is in Howell Mountain (not that they just produce a Howell Mountain wine) so I think that rules out Ladera.
You all seem very confident that the producer of the Atlas Peak cabs is Robert Craig. But aren’t the only things we know that they are based on Howell Mountain and known for making hillside cabs generally in the $90 range?

Seems like there are likely other producers that would fit that profile. For instance, O’Shaugnessy seems to also fit that bill (estate on Howell Mountain and they make wine from there and Mt Veeder).

I’m not saying it’s not Robert Craig, and they do fit the profile, but other producers could as well.
It's not just that, he said:

Sourced from a Howell Mountain producer famous for their dedication to only producing Cabernet from high-elevation, hillside sites

I don't believe that's true for O'Shaugnessy. They have an Oakville estate.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3730 Post by David Crow » September 13th, 2020, 12:36 pm

They produce Chardonnay from Oakville, but I’m pretty sure all of their cab comes from Howell Mountain and Mt Veeder.

https://www.oshaughnessywinery.com/Wines
Last edited by David Crow on September 13th, 2020, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3731 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 12:37 pm

Margo Smith wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 11:46 am
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:59 am
Cameron did another 30 min w/ same person but different interview on Facebook:

facebook.com/lesliesbrocco/videos/980026272462101/
Thanks to Nicholas & Matthew for sharing these videos, kind of a fun weekend watch. It did strike me as somewhat of a mismatch that a majority of his releases have been cabs, but she is not really a cab fan! Makes me wish we could see another video with someone who loves cabs to have that additional perspective!

I hate to ask this question as I'm worried it will show an embarrassing amount of ignorance, but is there ever any sparkling wine in the bulk market? Is there a chance we could see bubbly in a future release? I would be super jazzed about that!
I thought the same thing! She is sipping a bunch of wines I don't drink!

I think there can be a bulk market for anything but since he's sourcing most of her stuff from Napa I don't think Napa is known for high end sparkling wines and thus why we haven't gotten any offered to us yet.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3732 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 12:42 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:36 pm
They produce Chardonnay from Oakville, but I’m pretty sure all of their cab comes from Howell Mountain and Mt Veeder.

https://www.oshaughnessywinery.com/Wines
Just doesn't strike me as a hillside specialist when the have 2 hillside wines vs. Robert Craig's 4. Also are they "famous"? RC is well known. I can't find barrel types for oshaughnessy unfortunately.

That said, I'd be thrilled if it's them. Their cellartracker reviews are fantastic.

https://www.cellartracker.com/producer. ... ducer=3311

deNegoce #21 was never emailed to me (but I still bought it). Can someone please post what the email said for #21? Thanks.

EDIT: Popped a #2 this morning for the first time in a month. It really is delicious. Fantastic value. This is the 4th or 5th I've had but it's been at least a month. Drinking great now. (I only have #2 and #3 in my cellar, #1 and the rest were all held).
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3733 Post by David Crow » September 13th, 2020, 12:52 pm

I stand corrected that they do have some cab planted in Oakville, but they don’t make an Oakville designate cab. I would say they are pretty well known for mountain cabs. Again, not saying it is then or that it’s not Robert Craig, just making the point it seems like there isn’t that much to go on here and could be other producers.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3734 Post by Mark Morrissette » September 13th, 2020, 12:56 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:42 pm

deNegoce #21 was never emailed to me (but I still bought it). Can someone please post what the email said for #21? Thanks.

Here is the text of the #21 email:


No expense was spared in the production of this 2018 Atlas Peak Cabernet. Sourced from a true specialist in the art of hillside Cabernet, its an incredible wine at an incredible price you'd be foolish to pass over. With just three week in the bottle, its already drinking well and will continue to rapidly improve. Finesse, elegance and silkiness, the hallmarks of the 2018 vintage, are on full display.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3735 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 12:59 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:52 pm
I stand corrected that they do have some cab planted in Oakville, but they don’t make an Oakville designate cab. I would say they are pretty well known for mountain cabs. Again, not saying it is then or that it’s not Robert Craig, just making the point it seems like there isn’t that much to go on here and could be other producers.
I agree but wouldn't this rule them out? They have a NAPA blend with Oakville Cab in it.

"2017 Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon
"O'Shaughnessy's 2017 Cabernet Sauvignon (Napa Valley) is a terrific choice for drinking now and over the next few years. Bright aromatics, plush fruit and silky tannins give the 2017 much of its immediate appeal. Sweet red cherry, plum, mint, spice, blood orange, and rose petal all meld together in this very pretty and engaging Cabernet; there is certainly plenty to like here. As always, the Napa Valley Cabernet is a blend of fruit from O'Shaughnessy's Oakville, Howell Mountain and Mt. Veeder ranches."

I just don't think it fits.

Seems like there is a lot of detail actually with the clues and I have yet to see any other winery that fits despite some coming close like O'Shaughnessy or Ladera. Seems both can be excluded if we are to take what Cameron wrote as fact. They own an Oakville estate and make a Napa blend with it in it.

Howell Mountain estate, famous for making exclusive hillside cabs, $90+ price point. I don't think we'll find another that matches those 3.

But if it's them, great. I guess in the end doesn't matter as it seems like a great winery.

Daniel P is right though, whoever it is probably has agreed to buy Atlas Peak fruit for at least a few years and almost certainly has 2019 in barrels right now. So either they will release that or Cam will release the 2019. If any of these wineries release 2019 we will know that's the winery.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3736 Post by David Crow » September 13th, 2020, 1:19 pm

One ore thought on the source of the Atlas Peak cabs could be Burgess. They have an estate vineyard on howell mountain, although it’s below the AVA limit. The seem to specialize in mountain fruit in that price range.

They were also just recently sold to Heitz which could have been a reason to offload a bunch of a new wine.

https://shop.burgesscellars.com/Wines

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3737 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 1:44 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 1:19 pm
One ore thought on the source of the Atlas Peak cabs could be Burgess. They have an estate vineyard on howell mountain, although it’s below the AVA limit. The seem to specialize in mountain fruit in that price range.

They were also just recently sold to Heitz which could have been a reason to offload a bunch of a new wine.

https://shop.burgesscellars.com/Wines
Interesting though I'd think this would rule it out:

"They neither purchase fruit nor sell any fruit from their vineyards."

Atlas Peak addition is almost certainly purchased fruit not from owned land.

http://www.napawineproject.com/burgess-cellars/
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3738 Post by rsmithjr » September 13th, 2020, 2:15 pm

I remember buying Burgess Cabernet from the 1975 vintage in 1979 in Ann Arbor.....I was going to Graduate school... OMG the passage of time....
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3739 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm

Hearing that Cam held back so many cases of each, I think he should continue to hold back a bunch and throw a multi night Vegas event. Napa would work too but Vegas would be a lot more fun. Maybe fall 2021 when everything is back to normal. I could imagine he could easily draw many 100s of people if not 1000s. Would really be a tremendous amount of fun. Do it over 2 or even 3 nights and split up the wines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Can set it up with high end food stations, maybe some music. I'd think the event would sell out rather fast, even with people who have no idea what de Negoce is. I'll email him about it.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3740 Post by Nick F. » September 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm

Having the Chardonnay tonight.

If you don’t like oaked chard you will hate this. I like some butter and oak and think this could easily go head to head with any of the cougar juices out there, I. Rombaur etc.

I don’t always want to drink Chardonnay like this but for the price happy to have it around
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3741 Post by Rodrigo B » September 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm
Hearing that Cam held back so many cases of each, I think he should continue to hold back a bunch and throw a multi night Vegas event. Napa would work too but Vegas would be a lot more fun. Maybe fall 2021 when everything is back to normal. I could imagine he could easily draw many 100s of people if not 1000s. Would really be a tremendous amount of fun. Do it over 2 or even 3 nights and split up the wines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Can set it up with high end food stations, maybe some music. I'd think the event would sell out rather fast, even with people who have no idea what de Negoce is. I'll email him about it.
The food obviously needs to be catered by Holy Grail Steaks
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3742 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 3:52 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm
Hearing that Cam held back so many cases of each, I think he should continue to hold back a bunch and throw a multi night Vegas event. Napa would work too but Vegas would be a lot more fun. Maybe fall 2021 when everything is back to normal. I could imagine he could easily draw many 100s of people if not 1000s. Would really be a tremendous amount of fun. Do it over 2 or even 3 nights and split up the wines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Can set it up with high end food stations, maybe some music. I'd think the event would sell out rather fast, even with people who have no idea what de Negoce is. I'll email him about it.
The food obviously needs to be catered by Holy Grail Steaks
I wrote him that! Talk about a cross promotional marketing opportunity. However, it's kind of funny. Assuming the average person tastes at most 1.5 bottles of wine the "retail" COGs on the wine will be like $20-$25. If you let people sample HOLY GRAIL the retail beef will be $100!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3743 Post by Rodrigo B » September 13th, 2020, 3:56 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:52 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm
Hearing that Cam held back so many cases of each, I think he should continue to hold back a bunch and throw a multi night Vegas event. Napa would work too but Vegas would be a lot more fun. Maybe fall 2021 when everything is back to normal. I could imagine he could easily draw many 100s of people if not 1000s. Would really be a tremendous amount of fun. Do it over 2 or even 3 nights and split up the wines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Can set it up with high end food stations, maybe some music. I'd think the event would sell out rather fast, even with people who have no idea what de Negoce is. I'll email him about it.
The food obviously needs to be catered by Holy Grail Steaks
I wrote him that! Talk about a cross promotional marketing opportunity. However, it's kind of funny. Assuming the average person tastes at most 1.5 bottles of wine the "retail" COGs on the wine will be like $20-$25. If you let people sample HOLY GRAIL the retail beef will be $100!
I’ve got no problem with that. Plus, you build all that into the cost of the event. If I’m travelling from NY to Vegas might as well make it a memorable event. Seems silly to book travel+accommodations to taste a bunch of sub $20 wines. That said, I’d still likely do it since when it comes to wine, I’m not of the most sound mind
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3744 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 3:59 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:56 pm
MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:52 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm


The food obviously needs to be catered by Holy Grail Steaks
I wrote him that! Talk about a cross promotional marketing opportunity. However, it's kind of funny. Assuming the average person tastes at most 1.5 bottles of wine the "retail" COGs on the wine will be like $20-$25. If you let people sample HOLY GRAIL the retail beef will be $100!
I’ve got no problem with that. Plus, you build all that into the cost of the event. If I’m travelling from NY to Vegas might as well make it a memorable event. Seems silly to book travel+accommodations to taste a bunch of sub $20 wines. That said, I’d still likely do it since when it comes to wine, I’m not of the most sound mind
Totally agree of course. I think he'd only put on a very high end event. It isn't very fun walking around for 3-4 hours tasting w/o great food. And I'd love to sample all the high end beef Cameron has. Would be an amazing event. I know personally I'd pay up for it and I think he'd be able to charge a high price and make a healthy profit margin.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3745 Post by Russ Schultz » September 13th, 2020, 4:21 pm

Just watched the Leslie Sbrocco video. Fascinating. Very happy to have gotten involved with this early on.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3746 Post by ray ormand » September 13th, 2020, 4:28 pm

Had OG #2 tonight: agree with Matthew T:delicious.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#3747 Post by MatthewT » September 13th, 2020, 4:34 pm

ray ormand wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Had OG #2 tonight: agree with Matthew T:delicious.
It is really, really, good. Much better than the last one I had which I also liked but wow. I only have about a glass and a half left and it's only 430PM here :)
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3748 Post by Ian S » September 13th, 2020, 4:40 pm

Cameron Hughes = J. Peterman

49678845a156e177e49f113bebf2dcae.jpg

MatthewT = Elaine
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3749 Post by Glen Gold » September 13th, 2020, 4:48 pm

MatthewT wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 4:34 pm
ray ormand wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Had OG #2 tonight: agree with Matthew T:delicious.
It is really, really, good. Much better than the last one I had which I also liked but wow. I only have about a glass and a half left and it's only 430PM here :)
For a good 15 seconds I thought you were talking about the air quality.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#3750 Post by Troy Stark » September 13th, 2020, 5:19 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:36 pm
They produce Chardonnay from Oakville, but I’m pretty sure all of their cab comes from Howell Mountain and Mt Veeder.

https://www.oshaughnessywinery.com/Wines
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