de Negoce offer

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Toby P
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1051 Post by Toby P » July 29th, 2020, 4:36 pm

john mccarty wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 3:49 pm
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that lot 15 2018 Napa merlot could be a blend of Nickel & Nickel Merlot - 37% Oak Knoll (Bear Flat) + 60% Oakville (Harris) + 3% some cab from Atlas Peak. The Nickel&Nickel single vineyard Merlot's both sell for $60+ from the winery. The resulting ABV checks out, as well as the 50% new french oak. Don't see atlas peak cab in their portfolio, but it was not clear from Cam's description that was even from the same estate... Wine style description is also consistent with N&N. Thoughts?
Yup, this was my guess back in post #447, makes a lot of sense. Looks like it's available again...along with #16 and 17? Wonder why some of them pop back up again from time to time
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1052 Post by J. Patrick Lynch » July 29th, 2020, 4:43 pm

Toby P wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:36 pm
john mccarty wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 3:49 pm
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that lot 15 2018 Napa merlot could be a blend of Nickel & Nickel Merlot - 37% Oak Knoll (Bear Flat) + 60% Oakville (Harris) + 3% some cab from Atlas Peak. The Nickel&Nickel single vineyard Merlot's both sell for $60+ from the winery. The resulting ABV checks out, as well as the 50% new french oak. Don't see atlas peak cab in their portfolio, but it was not clear from Cam's description that was even from the same estate... Wine style description is also consistent with N&N. Thoughts?
Yup, this was my guess back in post #447, makes a lot of sense. Looks like it's available again...along with #16 and 17? Wonder why some of them pop back up again from time to time
He mentioned he holds back some cases. Perhaps he's convinced that enough of the "ship now" lot made it safely enough to release some of the holdback.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1053 Post by Nick F. » July 29th, 2020, 4:45 pm

Would love to return my 17
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1054 Post by Michael Martin » July 29th, 2020, 5:10 pm

I bought the 15 when it was first offered. I have found a new appreciation for Merlot. I am looking forward to these.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1055 Post by Mike R » July 29th, 2020, 5:15 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:10 pm
I bought the 15 when it was first offered. I have found a new appreciation for Merlot. I am looking forward to these.
You bought the first run, got it and liked it, and now are ordering more?
... 0 p 3 r

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1056 Post by Michael Martin » July 29th, 2020, 5:26 pm

Mike R wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:15 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:10 pm
I bought the 15 when it was first offered. I have found a new appreciation for Merlot. I am looking forward to these.
You bought the first run, got it and liked it, and now are ordering more?
No, the only one I have tried is N.01 and I liked those.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1057 Post by JonathanG » July 29th, 2020, 5:29 pm

Nick F. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Would love to return my 17
Did you try it and not like it? If so, what did you not like about it?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1058 Post by MatthewT » July 29th, 2020, 5:37 pm

JonathanG wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:29 pm
Nick F. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Would love to return my 17
Did you try it and not like it? If so, what did you not like about it?
I thought #17 was a weak offer and didn't buy. fwiw
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1059 Post by Chip Louie » July 29th, 2020, 5:39 pm

David Buck wrote:
July 28th, 2020, 7:56 am
Yeah I am only buying the high end stuff. Think that good plan. 4 cases now....that 200 bottle cooler filling up..
Ha, ha, 200 bottle cooler? I gave up trying to cool them, between the refers and electric bills I'd go broke. I have a 10" thick slab garage floor with buried cinder block walls on three sides. I figured out I could add some insulation and enclose the deepest corner and store wine in this space which holds about 250 bottles cool in the summer here in sunny SoCal. I have space for another 120-130 bottles in the house and always have a case or two of whites/pinks in the outside beer & wine refer. Covid-19 has two of my kids back home, one with the GF and who knew they would develop a taste for good wine? We are all people who actually cook so maybe it should not have been a surprise but we have managed to drink our way through the middle part of my wine stock at 2 bottles a night since the first week of March and I'll be damned if they are going to start drinking my collection of Chappelet, Shafer, Etude, KJ, Stags Leap, Duckhorn, 21 Grams, Cayuse, K, and better older California, Washington and Oregon reds.

Or maybe I'm just being selfish, maybe we should drink them now before we all die. Anyway so here I am shoring up the middle with hopefully something drinkable soon until they go away again but that may not be for a long time based on the way the Pandemic has blown up here in the USA. Sigh.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1060 Post by Nick F. » July 29th, 2020, 5:51 pm

JonathanG wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:29 pm
Nick F. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Would love to return my 17
Did you try it and not like it? If so, what did you not like about it?
No, but after the past couple offerings think it was one of the weaker.

Who knows maybe it will be the best
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1061 Post by David S e n n » July 29th, 2020, 7:50 pm

So is this like the new CHwine? I’ve been tempted to buy in several times but I seem to be too late on the good ones. I’ve purchased Cameron Hughes wine many times but recently I purchased a case on Groupon of CH lot 643 since the Cabernet selection was lacking on the site. Well I was sent a completely different vintage as well as Region wine under the same lot number. Explanation was that A different vintage and region was authorized to be a similar quality. I know Cameron Hughes was bought out recently and maybe he has no control over it. This seems like a better option and more to the roots of CHwine

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1062 Post by Vince L. » July 29th, 2020, 7:58 pm

David S e n n wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 7:50 pm
So is this like the new CHwine?
Yes, but different.

Read this article
https://www.sfchronicle.com/wine/articl ... 201102.php
If anyone knows bulk wine, it’s Hughes. His previous company, Cameron Hughes Wine, is one of the greatest bulk-wine success stories of all time. He launched that brand in 2001, with a Lodi Syrah that he called “Lot 1.” When that ran out, he moved on to Lot 2, a Dry Creek Zinfandel. The label is now on Lot 704, each bottling unique. The “lot” scheme worked so well because Hughes wasn’t obligated to keep buying any specific type of wine — and also because he had a keen eye for good wines with mass appeal.

But, according to Hughes, that business grew too quickly. At 100,000 cases, Cameron Hughes Wine was poorly diversified, selling about 95% of its inventory through Costco. A series of low-yielding vintages in 2010 and 2011 meant that the company had to start making some wine itself, which increased overhead costs. “By 2012, we’d maxed out a $24 million credit line,” Hughes says. “We lost $60,000 just that year.” Eventually the company entered into court-appointed receivership, and in 2017 Vintage Wine Estates purchased Cameron Hughes Wine for $5.5 million.

This time around, Hughes — who is still an employee of the company that bears his name — is doing things differently. “I’m working super lean,” he says. “I have no fixed costs.” That’s thanks in large part to the futures model: He can sell the wine before he even bottles it.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1063 Post by Douglas Breen » July 29th, 2020, 8:36 pm

Nick F. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:51 pm
JonathanG wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:29 pm
Nick F. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Would love to return my 17
Did you try it and not like it? If so, what did you not like about it?
No, but after the past couple offerings think it was one of the weaker.

Who knows maybe it will be the best
17 has an thorough and encouraging tasting note on cellar tracker. The ‘light oak treatment’ per Cameron’s note and low 14.5 % alcohol is what enticed me.

Bought 15, 17 and 25. Probably finished with Napa clarets. Will definitely be looking at the Oregon and Washington offerings.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1064 Post by Max S. » July 29th, 2020, 8:57 pm

Douglas Breen wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Will definitely be looking at the Oregon and Washington offerings.
Very interested in both, I wonder how long that will take. I wonder if it going to be worked in upcoming releases or its a "I'm going to do this sometime in the future" kind of thing.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1065 Post by rsmithjr » July 30th, 2020, 6:05 am

Sorry I missed the Spring Mountain Cab. I was thinking I have 5 cases on order and thought "do I really need more wine?" and thats a SILLY question.....
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant'

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1066 Post by Tico D. » July 30th, 2020, 8:04 am

MatthewT wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:22 pm
I just bought #15. I passed originally (as well as on #4) cause not a big Merlot guy but if I'm going to buy 1000 bottles of de Negoce to cellar off site might as well have 12 Merlot. Description is good. Thanks.
Is 15 still up? I dont see ant of the old offers available.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1067 Post by Max S. » July 30th, 2020, 8:15 am

Tico D. wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 8:04 am
MatthewT wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:22 pm
I just bought #15. I passed originally (as well as on #4) cause not a big Merlot guy but if I'm going to buy 1000 bottles of de Negoce to cellar off site might as well have 12 Merlot. Description is good. Thanks.
Is 15 still up? I dont see ant of the old offers available.
Looks like it's sold out again.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1068 Post by Max S. » July 30th, 2020, 9:15 am

First Zin is out...
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1069 Post by Eric White » July 30th, 2020, 9:29 am

In for the Zin!

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1070 Post by Nick F. » July 30th, 2020, 9:49 am

Any Guesses?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1071 Post by John V » July 30th, 2020, 9:58 am

Pedroncelli?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1072 Post by Mike Rotondo » July 30th, 2020, 10:00 am

Nick F. wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:49 am
Any Guesses?
Could be Seghesio - same ABV, and both have the splash of Petite. I'll have to check vineyard locations though.
Last edited by Mike Rotondo on July 30th, 2020, 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1073 Post by N Lang » July 30th, 2020, 10:03 am

Pedroncelli is my guess as well. The specs match their Mother Clone except the suggested price.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1074 Post by Matt N » July 30th, 2020, 10:07 am

Mike Rotondo wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 10:00 am
Nick F. wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:49 am
Any Guesses?
Could be Seghesio - same ABV, and both have the splash of Petite.
I would like it to be this. However, am seeing $40+ on any Seghesio that mentions dry creek... Guessing Cameron would have dropped the higher price if it was on of these. Am I missing one?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1075 Post by Mike Rotondo » July 30th, 2020, 10:07 am

Matt N wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 10:07 am
Mike Rotondo wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 10:00 am
Nick F. wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:49 am
Any Guesses?
Could be Seghesio - same ABV, and both have the splash of Petite.
I would like it to be this. However, am seeing $40+ on any Seghesio that mentions dry creek... Guessing Cameron would have dropped the higher price if it was on of these. Am I missing one?
You're probably right - I just quickly assumed the "base" wine was Dry Creek in origin.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1076 Post by Chip Louie » July 30th, 2020, 10:10 am

I was google earthing and Pedroncelli looks good and has the old vines and Petite Sirah. I think I'm in for some of the Zin for the fall roasted poultry season.

Other guesses?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1077 Post by Matt N » July 30th, 2020, 10:11 am

Multiple search result mentions of Pedroncelli being "debt free" and not needing to raise prices because of this... Seems like a really good fit.
Last edited by Matt N on July 30th, 2020, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1078 Post by john mccarty » July 30th, 2020, 10:13 am

Pedroncelli (Bushnell). Meets virtually all the description, including price ($26)

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1079 Post by Matt N » July 30th, 2020, 10:17 am

"the producers belief that good wine belongs on the table, have kept the prices reasonably in the $25 range."

Cameron does not state that this specific wine is in $25 range... Mother clone 2018 is my guess.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1080 Post by Chip Louie » July 30th, 2020, 10:20 am

Puccioni? A gorgeous little hillside and valley vineyard with the right old vines and both grapes grown. .

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1081 Post by Mitch P » July 30th, 2020, 10:27 am

If anyone in the Boston area is purchasing the Zin (OG #31) and don't want/need/have the space for the whole case, I'd be definitely be interested in a few bottles. Feel free to PM me. Thanks.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1082 Post by b. c@stner » July 30th, 2020, 11:01 am

Matt N wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 10:17 am
"the producers belief that good wine belongs on the table, have kept the prices reasonably in the $25 range."

Cameron does not state that this specific wine is in $25 range... Mother clone 2018 is my guess.
The 2017 Mother Clone also saw 30% new oak. A bit more PS though than this offer. Bushnell typically see a bit more new wood I believe
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1083 Post by PeterJ » July 30th, 2020, 11:05 am

2018 Pedroncelli Mother Clone is listed on their site as $19. Hughes seems more careful than to get that wrong.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1084 Post by MatthewT » July 30th, 2020, 12:37 pm

Passing on Zin. I like Zin but sticking with my "only buying high end" offers since the amount I have already is insane.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1085 Post by M Sargent » July 30th, 2020, 12:44 pm

OG #25 Spring Mountain Cab up right now when I just checked
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1086 Post by b. c@stner » July 30th, 2020, 12:56 pm

PeterJ wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 11:05 am
2018 Pedroncelli Mother Clone is listed on their site as $19. Hughes seems more careful than to get that wrong.
The spec sheet for the 2018 Mother Clone is identical to the specs for this offer. From the Ped website:

"The addition of Petite Sirah (10%) adds
depth of color and brings structure to the blend...
...Enjoy now or cellar for three to five years

Technical
Information
APPELLATION
Dry Creek Valley,
Sonoma County
AGING 12 months in
American Oak, 30% new oak
ALCOHOL 14.8%"
b 0 b

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1087 Post by MatthewT » July 30th, 2020, 1:16 pm

To be fair, he never said this wine costs $25.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1088 Post by Mike Kuller » July 30th, 2020, 1:36 pm

Latest today #31 - Dry Creek zinfandel at $8 a bottle.

Hard to pass up.

But after reading here, decided to let it go.
Last edited by Mike Kuller on July 30th, 2020, 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1089 Post by john mccarty » July 30th, 2020, 1:55 pm

MatthewT wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 1:16 pm
To be fair, he never said this wine costs $25.
That’s right, On rereading, I have to agree it’s probably the Mother Clone. Which is typically available under $15 for a single bottle at retail outlets. Not sure the equivalent price of $10.40 + tax / bottle to blind-buy an entire case makes a compelling QPR case for me. OTOH I bit on the Sauv Blanc and Chards, some of which probably had similar QPRs, so I suppose if you are a Zin fan, and in particular a Pedroncelli fan, it maybe a great deal.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1090 Post by John O' » July 31st, 2020, 3:30 am

john mccarty wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 1:55 pm
MatthewT wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 1:16 pm
To be fair, he never said this wine costs $25.
That’s right, On rereading, I have to agree it’s probably the Mother Clone. Which is typically available under $15 for a single bottle at retail outlets. Not sure the equivalent price of $10.40 + tax / bottle to blind-buy an entire case makes a compelling QPR case for me. OTOH I bit on the Sauv Blanc and Chards, some of which probably had similar QPRs, so I suppose if you are a Zin fan, and in particular a Pedroncelli fan, it maybe a great deal.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1091 Post by rsmithjr » July 31st, 2020, 6:35 am

My objective is great wines for all the work of having to hang around for a delivery driver. The Zin doesn't cut it. I can buy good drinking Zins at the wine store for 10-12$ any day of the week....
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1092 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am

I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1093 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 8:54 am

Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Most are not like this last offering. But what do people expect at $8 a bottle? A $50 bottle of wine?

I do think this offering is similar to legacy CH Wine stuff.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1094 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 9:11 am

MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:54 am
Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Most are not like this last offering. But what do people expect at $8 a bottle? A $50 bottle of wine?

I do think this offering is similar to legacy CH Wine stuff.
How can we be sure most aren't?

Why should he even bother with the cheap wines if that's not his business model?

N.09 2018 Carmel Valley Pinot Noir was touted as a $45 wine for $10.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1095 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 9:15 am

Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 9:11 am
MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:54 am
Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Most are not like this last offering. But what do people expect at $8 a bottle? A $50 bottle of wine?

I do think this offering is similar to legacy CH Wine stuff.
How can we be sure most aren't?

Why should he even bother with the cheap wines if that's not his business model?

N.09 2018 Carmel Valley Pinot Noir was touted as a $45 wine for $10.
His biz model is offering insane deals across all price points direct to consumer in a no cost/no thrills manner due to massive oversupply of wine. That oversupply is at all price points. I'm guessing he sees demand across all price points and thus is offering it and doesn't think it will hurt the de negoce brand. I certainly don't judge each low end offering as a bastardization of higher end offerings.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1096 Post by Mike R » July 31st, 2020, 9:47 am

It's funny - there have been two offerings where the winery was definitively identified, both of which were extremely unpopular offerings. I think if there was transparency into who the actual wineries were there would be A LOT less enthusiasm for this project.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1097 Post by DanielP » July 31st, 2020, 9:51 am

Mike R wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 9:47 am
It's funny - there have been two offerings where the winery was definitively identified, both of which were extremely unpopular offerings. I think if there was transparency into who the actual wineries were there would be A LOT less enthusiasm for this project.
Of all the offerings, I'm most confident in the ID of #21 as Robert Craig. That offering was quite popular.

I do agree that in general, the mystery aspect does appeal to our inner optimism and increase overall enthusiasm. But I think knowing the identity would polarize enthusiasm rather than broadly reduce it
Last edited by DanielP on July 31st, 2020, 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1098 Post by larry schaffer » July 31st, 2020, 9:58 am

It is all about the sizzle, right?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1099 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 10:01 am

Mike R wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 9:47 am
It's funny - there have been two offerings where the winery was definitively identified, both of which were extremely unpopular offerings. I think if there was transparency into who the actual wineries were there would be A LOT less enthusiasm for this project.
Not really true. It's virtually certain we know Miner is 2/3/4, so much so, he took down "stage coach" from the description.

And yah, Robert Craig is very likely to be 21 and 22.

Finally, #25 is likely SMV which is also very impressive.

But yes, if you think Cameron is a fraud and putting #s in the descriptions that are flat out false, you should prob not purchase any of these wines!

Oh and we know what #17 and #20 were. And #17 was a weaker offering and I passed but I did buy #20.
Last edited by MatthewT on July 31st, 2020, 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Kuller
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1100 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 10:02 am

As I've said he is a master salesman.
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