Where to look to next, cellar development

Hi guys,

So a little background from me, am 32 and living together with a wife who also enjoys a good glass of wine, and have been quietly tasting my way forward. Basically have been buying whatever i tasted that i really enjoyed, but feel I am hitting the point where I am not sure where to go from here. Am looking to develop a well rounded smallish cellar that can cater to most situations… recently bought a new wine fridge as well, so around 200 bottle capacity to expand :wink:

My cellar consists for 30% Musar, 30% German Rieslings, 30% Italian Barbaresco and the rest from all over. Notable missing country in my collection as you will see is france, i just have no clue where to even start in these countries especially keeping in mind that budget is limited, and most wines i buy are in the 40 - 50 range.

you can find me on CT here: Wines from 'ThijsC' - CellarTracker

In short, looking for advice based on my current tastes what would be a good area to expand into :slight_smile:

thanks!
Mat

There’s a great thread on Loire Reds that’s worth checking out, particularly because they’re more affordable in general. You can find a lot of Beaujolais at or below that price point. Alsace if you like Riesling. Also, you can find some solid grower Champagne in that price range, but also a ton of good Cremant (Champagne style, but from elsewhere in France). If you live in NY/LA, or another major city, look for regional wine tastings that cover 50-100+ producers. I love Denver, but that’s not something we get out here…

Develop your cellar slowly. It’s not a race. Explore and taste as much as you can comfortably enjoy. Learn to spit (if you don’t). Attend wine dinners, tasting events and visit wineries. If you’re interested in France…break it in to regions. Champagne, Loire, Alsace, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Northern Rhone, Southern Rhone, South Coast (Provence, Languedoc, Roussillon) and Bordeaux. There’s definitely more to it (Jura, Savoie, Cahors, Gaillac, etc.) but those will cover the main bases. As a whole, it can be overwhelming…but start small with one region (possibly a subregion, i.e.: Muscadet within the Loire) and move slowly. It’s a journey!

RT

I was going to mention Loire as well before I read Max’s post. They seem to be going through a golden age of some sorts, which fortunately doesn’t come along with absurdly high prices.

Being Portuguese and knowing Portuguese wine far better than any other, I would encourage you to take a look at my country’s surprisingly diverse gamut of styles and regions, usually at more affordable prices than other regions (certainly compared to Bordeaux and Burgundy). Roughly speaking, the Douro is powerful, the Vinhos Verdes are fresh, Bairrada is rustic, Dão is elegant and Alentejo is warm. 50-70€ over here gets you the very best stuff from a good deal of producers.

Some ideas

  1. Add 2016 barolo/barbaresco to your nebbiolo collection. 2016 are stellar across the range.
  2. Given your are looking for a “rounded” cellar that “can cater to most situations”, perhaps start your France exploration in Bordeaux or Rhone, which can be affordable crowd pleasers. I find it easier for a non-wine geek to enjoy a $35 Bordeaux than a $35 bourgogne. And great recent vintages in your price point that are widely available. You can split up Bordeaux in to left/right and Rhone into north/south as well if you wanted to dive into those regions more.
  3. If you consider sweet wines, consider picking up some 375s of aged sauternes or tokaji at auction (e.g. winebid)… you can find STELLAR wines in your price range (I have bought great '88 and '01 sauternes in your price point)

Second the Sauternes, my go-to RETAIL wine shop has '82 Suduiraut for $40. Not a great year for Sauternes in general, but good wines from that producer.

You’ve got a great start with 30% German Rieslings. I think you’ll be doing a good job if German Riesling continues to take up that much of your collection. Of course, I’d diversify across the different pradikats and with both dry and sweet Rieslings.

Mat, I’m not sure where you live, but if you’re in an area with good wine shops use them to try as many different wines as you can. As Richard said above, there’s no substitute for tasting as many different wines and regions as you can and learning what you really like. Even doing so, your tastes might change over time (I’m much less interested in sweet wines as opposed to 15 years ago, for example), but at least you get a wine education that way and buy for your own palate(s) as opposed to just taking someone’s recommendation.

Nailed it…

and read.

A good start, you’ve got a perfect cellar right in the beginning! :smiley:

I mean seriously, that’s a solid collection of terrific wines!

You have very few wines that are in their current drinking windows. What are you drinking now? Do you like wine with tertiary development? I would recommend looking at auctions and companies who sell cellars/estates. More than regions, I’d focus on having some properly aged wine to drink in the next 10 years and some cellar defenders.

+1. Seriously, you’re doing a great job so far.

I noticed a few Chenin Blancs in your cellar: explore Chenins from the Loire valley. Run a search on the board-- there have been some excellent Chenin Blanc threads in the recent past.

I second the Portugese commentary from Tomas — the wines are generally well-priced for their quality. I’m talking dry wines here. Whether you will like them or not is up to palate, but they’re worth exploring. Do not end that exploration without trying at least two Baga bottlings— given your interest in Nebbiolo, I could easily see you appreciating the wonders of the Baga grape.

If there is a wine shop or few that is local to you, and has an online presence, tell us which one(s), and I bet you’ll get plenty of folks here who are willing to be your personal sommelier from their online selection(s).

I also second the ideas of tasting broadly, and building your collection slowly.

Hi all,

Thanks, blown away by the responses here! I realise that my cellar is modest in size, but I am trying to stock quality and things i like now for drinking later, while at the same time keeping costs reasonable. With a baby and wife at home, i have to manage my expenses on my hobbies, as I am sure many on this board can relate to. This means that I try to actively look out for wines that " punch above their weight" as it were. For my money wines like JJ Prum and Musar for example fit that bill. As you guys can tell I do enjoy my rieslings, both dry and sweet along all the predikat levels. This leads me to another question; Is it worth branching into sauternes seeing as i have had quite a few auslese (and above)? Have never had Sauternes but would there be a large difference between that and say a good sweet Mosel wine?

My local wine store offeres tastings, but have found the focus on to be more on the " lower end wines" (I don’t mean this disrespectfully) so limited interest for me even though it made me realise I definately do not like Orange wine :wink:

Am trying to taste as much as I can, but really appreciate your input to give me a nudge in the right direction!

thanks from a (relative) wine newbie

Well, what you see here is mostly what I intend to keep longer term for ageing. You are right of course that i do not have too much to drink now, and that is part of the problem! I like to think that I am investing now to have something to drink later, but it would be good to have something for drinking now… The oldest wine I have had to date was that 1997 Musar and loved the tertiary developments in those, and would love more aged wine, just finding difficult to source proper aged wine that has the good value I am looking for, combined with decent provenance…

I’ve seen plenty of great aged Sauternes on discount sites like Full Pull and LastBottle. They are different than riesling in not having the slate/oiliness flavors. I like both equally. Also there are SGNs from Alsace gewürztraminer and pinot gris that I might even like more than either? All worth trying.

Good advice above to dabble before you home in, but with “punch above their weight” + wine buying on a budget factors, I’d definitely do some exploration of beaujolais, where you can still dip into the top-tier for not much more than $20.

If I had to start over I would focus on library wines and not new releases so I had age in my cellar. This gives you wines you can drink today and then revert back and get new releases that you can age over time.

There’s a lot of online stores you can get older vintages for that are below current release pricing.

There are many great daily offer email sites. For what you like and are exploring–I’d recommend signing up the websites Fass Selections and Cellaraiders, respectively. Envoyer, Lopa, and Down to Earth Wines are other favorites on this site (and mine), but less for exploring and more for great pricing when you already know what you are looking for. Check these for good cellar defenders:

&
www.WTSO.com
&
www.fullpullwines.com

I hope this doesn’t result in your wife leaving you as, if you weren’t signed up for all of these, you budget is about to be blown.

You might like to add more Produttori and get some Montefico Riserva.

Still in Italy you might want to look at Tuscany more. I see you have Il Poggione, a great benchmark value punch above its weight wine. CC and CCR’s are even more affordable and punch above their weight and pay off with cellar time. that’s something I learned hanging out on wineberserkers. And cheaper but good QPR Super Tuscan’s if you like Bordeaux blends. And also still in Italy, Etna if you like a more finesse Burgandy styles.

In France, more Champagne.

And its probably already factored in to your plan, but make sure you have a comprehensive list of go to cellar defenders that drink well early so you aren’t tempted to open up your better ones too early. The drink early cellar defenders are also a good way to explore new regions/varieties and if you like them you can move up to the more serious versions to help do that cellar development you’re looking at.