Preferred Burgundy Glass

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JDavisRoby
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#51 Post by JDavisRoby » May 3rd, 2020, 9:40 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 7:55 am
Patrick T a y l o r wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 12:31 pm
Andrew K. wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 8:49 am
Thanks for the tips guys. I decided to order a Grassl 1855 and Cru to get the chance to test out with different wines and compare.
Some friends and I did that pre-quarantine. We tried 5 wines in 5 different glasses. The shape of the glass change the nose, for sure. But it also changed where the wine hit the palate, which made a huge difference and not always in a good way.

I've started recording the stem in my CT notes, so I can make better wine / stem pairings.

(I need therapy.)
I completely agree with this post! (Except for the therapy part. That I am unqualified to judge but will take your word for it).
Marcus, you use Liberte in your tasting room right? Can’t remember if that is what we used when we were there last September or not. Do you feel the Liberte is good for both your whites and Pinot? I have the 1855 and love them for Bordeaux and Rhône varetials but Pinot Noir doesn’t jump out at me in them like I expected. Debating whether to buy the Liberte like you use in tasting room or go with cru.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#52 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » May 3rd, 2020, 9:57 am

Josh, FWIW, I've been drinking Marcus' pinot noir from Grassl Cru and find they really show well. Haven't used that glass for his whites yet, but they show well in GGG, which has a similar shape as the Grassl Liberte.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#53 Post by C. Keller » May 3rd, 2020, 10:05 am

Ofer Refaeli wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 1:15 am
Lee Short wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 10:18 am
Could one of you who has the Conterno glasses please post a picture of it next to another glass or two. I'm curious about just how large it is. Because Brad is completely right about Zalto burgs -- I have a several, and all but one of them are in a box somewhere. I like to keep one out to occasionally compare with other glasses -- but I don't use it very often other than that.
I hope it helps..
The Conterno definitely resembles the regular Schott Zweisel Burgundy stems. I have a pair and I use them regularly. Short stem with a sturdy base. And I think they were only $15 a piece.
Chris

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#54 Post by JDavisRoby » May 3rd, 2020, 10:37 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 9:57 am
Josh, FWIW, I've been drinking Marcus' pinot noir from Grassl Cru and find they really show well. Haven't used that glass for his whites yet, but they show well in GGG, which has a similar shape as the Grassl Liberte.
I have the Grassl tasting glass set which has dimensions very close to Liberte. Didn’t really realize how close they were until looking at the site this morning.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#55 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » May 3rd, 2020, 10:40 am

We like Zalto burgs for PN and some chards.

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#56 Post by Lee Short » May 3rd, 2020, 11:07 am

Ofer Refaeli wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 1:15 am
Lee Short wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 10:18 am
Could one of you who has the Conterno glasses please post a picture of it next to another glass or two. I'm curious about just how large it is. Because Brad is completely right about Zalto burgs -- I have a several, and all but one of them are in a box somewhere. I like to keep one out to occasionally compare with other glasses -- but I don't use it very often other than that.
I hope it helps..
Thanks! That was indeed helpful.

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#57 Post by JDavisRoby » May 3rd, 2020, 11:40 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 9:57 am
Josh, FWIW, I've been drinking Marcus' pinot noir from Grassl Cru and find they really show well. Haven't used that glass for his whites yet, but they show well in GGG, which has a similar shape as the Grassl Liberte.
Exchanged a few emails with Chris today and decided to do the decanter set that includes a couple Liberté stems. He encouraged me to use Liberté for younger wines and Cru for wines with some age.

He also is giving me a great replacement price on a broken 1855. Our 100 lb Lab’s tail whacked it last night while the glass was sitting on a coffee table. Great service from Chris!
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#58 Post by J.Vizuete » May 3rd, 2020, 1:14 pm

JDavisRoby wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 10:37 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 9:57 am
Josh, FWIW, I've been drinking Marcus' pinot noir from Grassl Cru and find they really show well. Haven't used that glass for his whites yet, but they show well in GGG, which has a similar shape as the Grassl Liberte.
I have the Grassl tasting glass set which has dimensions very close to Liberte. Didn’t really realize how close they were until looking at the site this morning.
They are really very similar in bowl size and shape. The liberté is a much more elegant glass, with a taller, thinner stem and lip, but the bowls are nearly identical. The tasting glass is machine blown and quite sturdy. The liberté has become my go-to champagne glass, but I’m going to look into the Zalto white for that purpose as well
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#59 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » May 3rd, 2020, 1:21 pm

J.Vizuete wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 1:14 pm
JDavisRoby wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 10:37 am
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 9:57 am
Josh, FWIW, I've been drinking Marcus' pinot noir from Grassl Cru and find they really show well. Haven't used that glass for his whites yet, but they show well in GGG, which has a similar shape as the Grassl Liberte.
I have the Grassl tasting glass set which has dimensions very close to Liberte. Didn’t really realize how close they were until looking at the site this morning.
They are really very similar in bowl size and shape. The liberté is a much more elegant glass, with a taller, thinner stem and lip, but the bowls are nearly identical. The tasting glass is machine blown and quite sturdy. The liberté has become my go-to champagne glass, but I’m going to look into the Zalto white for that purpose as well
You should try champagne in the Grassl Mineralite glass. Bueker turned me onto it.
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2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#60 Post by J.Vizuete » May 3rd, 2020, 9:55 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 1:21 pm
J.Vizuete wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 1:14 pm
JDavisRoby wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 10:37 am


I have the Grassl tasting glass set which has dimensions very close to Liberte. Didn’t really realize how close they were until looking at the site this morning.
They are really very similar in bowl size and shape. The liberté is a much more elegant glass, with a taller, thinner stem and lip, but the bowls are nearly identical. The tasting glass is machine blown and quite sturdy. The liberté has become my go-to champagne glass, but I’m going to look into the Zalto white for that purpose as well
You should try champagne in the Grassl Mineralite glass. Bueker turned me onto it.
Thanks for the tip
John
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#61 Post by Jonathan Favre » May 5th, 2020, 1:05 pm

Not sure if it's been mentioned already - but - for me at least, it's looking more and more like the Roberto Conterno Sensory wine glass is superior across the board..... Just my opinion though after a lot of experimentation :). Also - I have no financial interest at all - just know that this is a good deal + it serves as an avenue to get help to those in need ---- Rare Wine Co. has this special going which is FABULOUS!!! https://www.rarewineco.com/offers/conte ... t-zwiesel/

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#62 Post by AAgrawal » May 5th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Jonathan Favre wrote:
May 5th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned already - but - for me at least, it's looking more and more like the Roberto Conterno Sensory wine glass is superior across the board..... Just my opinion though after a lot of experimentation :). Also - I have no financial interest at all - just know that this is a good deal + it serves as an avenue to get help to those in need ---- Rare Wine Co. has this special going which is FABULOUS!!! https://www.rarewineco.com/offers/conte ... t-zwiesel/
Interesting, thanks. Which groups of wines have you tried? I've heard of people saying it was better for reds, whites, champagnes, young or old, but I'm curious if this was true for minerally whites such as riesling, or sweet wines such as sauternes. The glasses I'm using for these tend to be smaller/narrower than it looks like the Sensory is.

I don't need any more glasses, but I'm tempted to give it a try.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#63 Post by Marshall Manning » May 5th, 2020, 2:40 pm

Just from the picture it looks a lot like the Riedel OR Pinot glass, although probably higher quality and lighter. How do the two compare?
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#64 Post by Jonathan Favre » May 5th, 2020, 5:20 pm

AAgrawal wrote:
May 5th, 2020, 1:50 pm
Jonathan Favre wrote:
May 5th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned already - but - for me at least, it's looking more and more like the Roberto Conterno Sensory wine glass is superior across the board..... Just my opinion though after a lot of experimentation :). Also - I have no financial interest at all - just know that this is a good deal + it serves as an avenue to get help to those in need ---- Rare Wine Co. has this special going which is FABULOUS!!! https://www.rarewineco.com/offers/conte ... t-zwiesel/
Interesting, thanks. Which groups of wines have you tried? I've heard of people saying it was better for reds, whites, champagnes, young or old, but I'm curious if this was true for minerally whites such as riesling, or sweet wines such as sauternes. The glasses I'm using for these tend to be smaller/narrower than it looks like the Sensory is.

I don't need any more glasses, but I'm tempted to give it a try.
Got to sit with Roberto in his tasting room - he talked extensively about these glasses specifically - spent years researching and perfecting them just like everything in his winery. IMPRESSIVE!!! Reds, whites, and even - yep, champagne. The glass is balanced and the bowl seems wider to funnel all of the right scents upwards. I have no idea of the science but the surface area and funneling of scents seems to be maximized..... Sipping a nice barolo with Roberto patiently explaining the benefits of this glass was and is a powerful "infomercial" though :).

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#65 Post by Neal.Mollen » May 23rd, 2020, 12:35 pm

This one?

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#66 Post by Subu Ramachandran » May 23rd, 2020, 8:34 pm

Does anyone have experience with Zwiesel Air Sense, the one with the bulb in the middle?

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#67 Post by Glenn P » May 24th, 2020, 7:28 am

Robert Parker said a while back that the best glass for the particular wine was the Reidel Sommelier Burgundy glass!
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#68 Post by Anthony C » May 24th, 2020, 2:39 pm

I use the Riedel Sommelier Burgundy for Burgs and So Rhones and the Riedel Bordeaux for Bordeaux and No Rhones. I'd like to say that it was through careful analysis, but I just liked the shapes and they were MUCH better than the Sur la Table stemware we'd been using forever. I haven't settled on a white Burg or standard for the various Italians yet.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#69 Post by Gus Siokis » May 24th, 2020, 4:31 pm

We were fortunate to taste with Roberto last year and he had us 'test' his glass versus Zalto Burgs....interesting experience. Later that week, we found them in Alba for around 35 EUR per stem. I should have bought some...oh well. Here are a few pics:
IMG_2641.jpg
IMG_2640.jpg
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#70 Post by Blake Brown » May 25th, 2020, 8:28 am

I used to go with the Riedel Sommelier Burgundy Grand Cru stem for most, but it is so big and often I'm only pouring a small amount or on a few occasions, have a wine that can get lost in the large bowl, so I use the Sophienwald Red Wine glass which is designed for Pinot Noir and I prefer this over even the Zaltos. It's hand blown, unleaded cristal, 8 7/8 " tall, 4 1/2 " in diameter, has the capacity volume for 24 oz and weighs 3.9 oz. The paper it came wrapped in weighed more than the stem.

B4FE3A1F-4834-48A8-B5A1-44AE121F96F9_1_201_a.jpeg
Sophienwald Red Wine {Pinot} glass w/11` Rivers-Marie Summa
Sopheinwald is made in Austria and is still working on making their glasses available in the US on a wide scale basis. I'm fortunate to know about them as a friend has been asked to consult for them to provide guidance for marketing here and their distributor, Adelion, has honored my requests for purchasing and successfully shipped glasses, mostly champagne stems, that I use and adore.

Their champagne glass hits all of the right considerations for me in that it has a wide bowl, a large equator, a large base and long stem. It's size and shape allows for concentrated but expanded aromatics to be experienced as opposed to being relatively muted by a narrow bowl/ flute. This is also true for the taste profile.

IMG_0342.jpeg
Sophienwald Champagne Grand Cru Glass w/Krug 164 eme
IMG_0136.jpeg
Sophienwald Champagne Grand Cru Glass w/NV Billecart-Salmon Rose
Their pricing is in the $50-65 per stem range. Breakage has not been an issue as the stems are flexible, stable with a super wide base and really easy to clean by hand although they advertise they are dishwasher friendly.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#71 Post by Alan Rath » May 25th, 2020, 9:49 am

Gus Siokis wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 4:31 pm
We were fortunate to taste with Roberto last year and he had us 'test' his glass versus Zalto Burgs....interesting experience. Later that week, we found them in Alba for around 35 EUR per stem. I should have bought some...oh well. Here are a few pics:

IMG_2641.jpg
IMG_2640.jpg
Which is the glass on the right?
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#72 Post by jordan jacobs » May 25th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Anyone know where I can purchase the Conterno Giacomo Sensory here in the US?
Thanks

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#73 Post by Dave McIsaac » May 25th, 2020, 4:59 pm

jordan jacobs wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 4:54 pm
Anyone know where I can purchase the Conterno Giacomo Sensory here in the US?
Thanks
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#74 Post by Gus Siokis » May 26th, 2020, 6:08 am

Alan Rath wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 9:49 am
Gus Siokis wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 4:31 pm
We were fortunate to taste with Roberto last year and he had us 'test' his glass versus Zalto Burgs....interesting experience. Later that week, we found them in Alba for around 35 EUR per stem. I should have bought some...oh well. Here are a few pics:

IMG_2641.jpg
IMG_2640.jpg
Which is the glass on the right?
Zalto Burg - Left and Sensory - Right
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#75 Post by Gary Margol » May 27th, 2020, 10:55 am

I have compared the Zalto, new Schott Zwiesel Vervino and Riedel Restaurant (ouverture) stems and tumblers extensively.
I took measurements using a digital micrometer on the rims and the ranges provided are either due to rim variance for a single stem or due to rim variance when two stems were measured.
In addition, I've taste-tested the full range with many fellow oenophiles (most post here from time to time) who own Zalto and Gabriel, have noted their comments and taken their votes.

I can unequivocally report that the new Vervino is the far and away the winner for quality, rim thinness, durability and price.
And all preferred Vervino's wider foot.

Only one preferred the thinner stems on Gabriel, but commented that between its high breakage rate and cost, he still wanted the Vervino.

Zalto uses lead-free potash glass, replacing calcium with barium.
Schott's Vervino collection uses lead-free potash glass, with titanium for strength and zirconium for clarity and brilliance.
Hope this helps.

Line Product Recommended Usage Ht Oz Rim MM
Zalto
Universal Riesling, Chardonnay, Rose, Chianti 9.25" 18.0 0.63
Bordeaux Bordeaux, Rioja, Brunello, Shiraz 9.5" 26.0 0.81
Burgundy Pinot Noir, Nebbiolo, Barbera, Chardonnay, Gruner 9.05" 32.0 0.94-0.98
Champagne 9.5" 7.5 0.87

SZ Vervino
0 Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Chianti 8.85" 13.7 0.77-0.81
1 Cabernet, Chablis, Unoaked whites 9.37" 16.5 0.72-0.81
77 Champagne 9" 11.8 0.62-0.76
130 Bordeaux, Syrah 9.64" 25.1 0.74-0.74
140 Burgundy, Oaked Chardonnay 9.29" 32.3 1.01-1.2
145 AllRound (Universal) Beaujolais 9" 23.2 0.71
3 Subwein (sweet) 8.34" 9.8 N/A (not avail in USA)
42 AllRound Long Drink (Universal) Tumbler 4.6" 16.4 0.84-0.92
60 Wasser (Water) Tumbler 3.6" 13.5 1.1-1.2

Riedel Restaurant
Chardonnay 8" 12.4 1.13
Magnum (aka Ouverture) 7.9" 18.6 1.25
Burgundy 8.5" 24.0 1.54
Riedel O
Chardonnay 3.9" 11.3 1.12
Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Chianti 0.92
Cabernet 1.16
Cabernet Sauvignon 1.16

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#76 Post by AAgrawal » June 29th, 2020, 7:58 pm

I bought a Conterno Sensory glass to try. In the glass right now is a 2004 Felsina Rancia, and I'm comparing it to a Zalto universal.

First: The glass.
The bowl is much flatter on the bottom than I imagined. It's almost like a plate with a glass funnel placed on top. The weight of the glass seems just a bit more than some competitors (Zalto, Grassl). The tradeoff is that when the glass is filled with wine, it feels very balanced. Much less top heavy than the zalto or the grassl.

The wine: Compared to the universal, the wine seems a bit more integrated, while in the Zalto it's a touch crisper. I don't strongly prefer one versus the other. The surface area and the shape of the Conterno glasses seem ideal for aromatic reds. The marketing says they great for everything: Champagne, white burgundy, etc. Not sure about that yet, but they are certainly interesting glasses to try.

Update: Conterno Sensory definitely isn't for all wine. Doesn't work for Madeira, as the large bowl magnifies the alcohol. Not surprising, just reporting what I've found.
Last edited by AAgrawal on June 29th, 2020, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#77 Post by KyleC » June 29th, 2020, 9:45 pm

+1 to Blake, while I love my Zalto Universals, for Burgundy, I prefer Sophienwald's red glasses.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#78 Post by Blake Brown » June 30th, 2020, 7:17 am

KyleC wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 9:45 pm
+1 to Blake, while I love my Zalto Universals, for Burgundy, I prefer Sophienwald's red glasses.
I'm happy to see at least one other is familiar with the Sophenwald stems. They are a pure pleasure to use and perform beautifully. The Grand Cru champagne glasses are the best of all.
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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#79 Post by Joe Chanley » June 30th, 2020, 8:30 am

Blake Brown wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 7:17 am
KyleC wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 9:45 pm
+1 to Blake, while I love my Zalto Universals, for Burgundy, I prefer Sophienwald's red glasses.
I'm happy to see at least one other is familiar with the Sophenwald stems. They are a pure pleasure to use and perform beautifully. The Grand Cru champagne glasses are the best of all.
We use GGG and the sophienwald red's as well. We were tasting at Beaux Freres a few years back and they were using those stems for their chards/pinots and we bought a 6 pack immediately. Love them. The only one i broke slipped out of my hand to the floor....quite durable.

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Re: Preferred Burgundy Glass

#80 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 4th, 2020, 3:36 pm

Gary Margol wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 10:55 am
I have compared the Zalto, new Schott Zwiesel Vervino and Riedel Restaurant (ouverture) stems and tumblers extensively.
I took measurements using a digital micrometer on the rims and the ranges provided are either due to rim variance for a single stem or due to rim variance when two stems were measured.
In addition, I've taste-tested the full range with many fellow oenophiles (most post here from time to time) who own Zalto and Gabriel, have noted their comments and taken their votes.

I can unequivocally report that the new Vervino is the far and away the winner for quality, rim thinness, durability and price.
And all preferred Vervino's wider foot.

Only one preferred the thinner stems on Gabriel, but commented that between its high breakage rate and cost, he still wanted the Vervino.

Zalto uses lead-free potash glass, replacing calcium with barium.
Schott's Vervino collection uses lead-free potash glass, with titanium for strength and zirconium for clarity and brilliance.
Hope this helps.

Line Product Recommended Usage Ht Oz Rim MM
Zalto
Universal Riesling, Chardonnay, Rose, Chianti 9.25" 18.0 0.63
Bordeaux Bordeaux, Rioja, Brunello, Shiraz 9.5" 26.0 0.81
Burgundy Pinot Noir, Nebbiolo, Barbera, Chardonnay, Gruner 9.05" 32.0 0.94-0.98
Champagne 9.5" 7.5 0.87

SZ Vervino
0 Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Chianti 8.85" 13.7 0.77-0.81
1 Cabernet, Chablis, Unoaked whites 9.37" 16.5 0.72-0.81
77 Champagne 9" 11.8 0.62-0.76
130 Bordeaux, Syrah 9.64" 25.1 0.74-0.74
140 Burgundy, Oaked Chardonnay 9.29" 32.3 1.01-1.2
145 AllRound (Universal) Beaujolais 9" 23.2 0.71
3 Subwein (sweet) 8.34" 9.8 N/A (not avail in USA)
42 AllRound Long Drink (Universal) Tumbler 4.6" 16.4 0.84-0.92
60 Wasser (Water) Tumbler 3.6" 13.5 1.1-1.2

Riedel Restaurant
Chardonnay 8" 12.4 1.13
Magnum (aka Ouverture) 7.9" 18.6 1.25
Burgundy 8.5" 24.0 1.54
Riedel O
Chardonnay 3.9" 11.3 1.12
Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Chianti 0.92
Cabernet 1.16
Cabernet Sauvignon 1.16
Cool to see you posting here Gary - if I remember right you were one of the first voices out there warning about lead crystal on the old forum and probably saved many of us a few zillion brain cells?

If your measurements on the Vervinos are right, Schott needs better photographers taking their promo pics because what I am seeing of them makes them look a lot more clunky than that. But good to know of this option because I have always been very happy with Schott's glasses and my quest for a Zalto alternative continues.

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