Preferred Burgundy Glass

[Andrew K.]

I did some searches and didn't see much on this particular topic, but forgive me if it's been discussed ad nauseum.

I currently have a couple of stems of Riedel Sommelier Burgundy Grand Cru that I use regularly for myself. But I've noticed that some of the preferred stems around here such as Grassl have a very different look to their Burgundy glass.

Namely, the round shape and wider opening curved out on Riedel.

And the flat bottom and narrower straight opening on the Grassl Cru. Also the Grassl is a bit shorter.

I drink a lot of Burgundy and Pinot in general, so just wondering if I'm missing out on something with the Riedel version vs the narrower opening.

[GregT]

Welcome Andrew.

It has been discussed ad nauseum.

You're not missing out on anything if you like the glass. There are partisans for every one.

And some folks really really really pick up profound differences.

Personally, I just don't want it to be chipped or cracked.

Use the glass you like. You'll never know by hearing other opinions so you may want to buy one of those you're curious about and see if it really matters.

[c fu]

Zalto bordeaux is my favorite glass for burgundy. Hands down.

Grassl over riedel, the narrow opening focuses the nose. Pretty much all the high end stemware is like that now except for those old school ones

[Patrick T a y l o r]

Well, it hasn't been discussed ad nauseam between the day you joined and today.

I think Grassl still has a tasting set for $50 as a try before you buy (refundable). Search this board for keywords like Grassl, GGG, Riedel. I was happy with Riedel for many years until I tried Grassl. Your mileage may vary. CJFselections.com is the importer.

[Rauno E (NZ)]

Hi Andrew, and welcome. I have 3 different glasses I use for red burgundy: Riedel Somm, Zalto (similar to your Grassl image) and Spiegelau (a product line that now appears retired, but is like a more tulip-shaped version of a white burgundy Riedel or a more bulbous version of a classic Bordeaux shape). Both the Riedel Somm and Zalto are rather high end so they tend to come out for the more serious bottles. Frankly, I have found some wines are better in the Riedel and others in the Zalto. I have also found that any two people seldom agree on which wine is better in which glass. Nor has it ever made a large difference to my enjoyment of a wine. Nor has there been some obvious pattern, e.g. younger wines are better in the Zalto and Chambolles in the Riedel. So my advice is you're probably not missing out on anything, but if you like experimenting get yourself some Grassl or Zalto .

[Ian S]

Different bowl shapes can accentuate different properties in different wines. Glasses with the shape of a snifter seem to produce a concentrating effect on the aromas, which I believe Constable Fu describes as focusing the nose.

[Marcus Goodfellow]

Tasting is incredibly subjective, so YMMV and nothing really replaces trying different wines in different glasses.

I like the Riedel Somm Grand Cru glass but oddly the very best experience I ever had with that glass was a Cote Rotie.

We like, and use, the Grassl Liberté and Cru both at home and at the winery. Except for bubbles, there, if I feel like a more linear bright experience, I use a Zalto white wine glass and for a little more richness the Grassl Liberté.

We taste Pinot Noir from barrel in the Liberté, and at home if I want the bright acidity of young Pinot Noir I use the Liberté instead of the Cru. The balance between the two is corrected by using the Cru for older Chardonnays. For younger Chardonnay, the Grassl Liberté is the one and only for me.

Like Fu, I like the Zalto Bordeaux glass for red Burgundy and for a fair amount of Oregon Pinot Noir(and much, much more than I like the Zalto Burgundy). I like the Grassl Cru just as much. When determining the tasting glass for our Pinot Noirs in the tasting room, it was a tie for me between the Grassl Cru and the Zalto Bordeaux.

But being a Pinot Noir producer, choosing a glass called “Bordeaux” over a Cru is like a Seahawks fan having a 49ers coffee mug...

[William Kelley]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

[Jürgen Steinke]

I use the Gabriel Glas. Not the Gold version because I broke too many. The standard does it for me. I am not a fan of overly big glasses (Riedel Sommelier etc.). But I tested many versions over the years and the glass makes a difference.

[Yong Wei C.]

The Zalto Burgundy is my go-to. No complaints.

[Marshall Manning]

But being a Pinot Noir producer, choosing a glass called “Bordeaux” over a Cru is like a Seahawks fan having a 49ers coffee mug...

They're just trying to look classy, Marcus.

[jason stein]

The Zalto Burgundy is my go-to. No complaints.

Me as well.

[Anton D]

Riedel Extreme....

Zalto Denk'Art Burgundy Glass

A large Brandy snifter may be the best of all.

I don't know what the Hell glass this is ----> I am embarrassed that it qualified as an emoji.

[Andrew K.]

Thanks for the tips guys. I decided to order a Grassl 1855 and Cru to get the chance to test out with different wines and compare.

[m. ristev]

anyone use those zieher glasses? really interested in trying the 'balanced' model.

[Mich@el Ch@ng]

I use the grassl cru for most reds and whites.

[Scott Brunson]

Another vote for Grassl Cru

[Patrick T a y l o r]

Thanks for the tips guys. I decided to order a Grassl 1855 and Cru to get the chance to test out with different wines and compare.

Some friends and I did that pre-quarantine. We tried 5 wines in 5 different glasses. The shape of the glass change the nose, for sure. But it also changed where the wine hit the palate, which made a huge difference and not always in a good way.

I've started recording the stem in my CT notes, so I can make better wine / stem pairings.

(I need therapy.)

[Dave McIsaac]

Thanks for the tips guys. I decided to order a Grassl 1855 and Cru to get the chance to test out with different wines and compare.

Some friends and I did that pre-quarantine. We tried 5 wines in 5 different glasses. The shape of the glass change the nose, for sure. But it also changed where the wine hit the palate, which made a huge difference and not always in a good way.

I've started recording the stem in my CT notes, so I can make better wine / stem pairings.

(I need therapy.)

Don't forget Sally's stems, too......

[dvansteenderen]

Gabriel Gold Glas Edition
Conterno Giacomo Sensory

disclaimer: I sell both...

[Henry Kiichli]

Riedel Extreme....

Zalto Denk'Art Burgundy Glass

A large Brandy snifter may be the best of all.

I don't know what the Hell glass this is ----> I am embarrassed that it qualified as an emoji.

Tasting in Burgundy, many growers present in a cognac snifter.

Including those folx who have 500+€ wines.

[Patrick T a y l o r]

I've started recording the stem in my CT notes, so I can make better wine / stem pairings.

Don't forget Sally's stems, too......

Sally is a fickle beast.

[Tom G l a s g o w]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

Oh no, a new glass to consider.

[lleichtman]

We use the Riedel "Oregon" Pinot glass Performance series.

[C. Keller]

Glasses are all personal preference. Just like the wine that goes into the glass.

[G. Keeler]

Glasses are all personal preference. Just like the wine that goes into the glass.

Agree. I have started using the Zalto Bordeaux as a my all purpose red wine glass lately. We have the Zalto burg glass but tend to only use it for white burg. Also recently bought the Conterno Sensory glass and really like it. Good design and feels less top heavy compared to the Zalto burg. I had the Riedel somm burg glass for years but rarely pull it. Just doesn't feel good in the hand.

[Ian S]

I have started using the Zalto Bordeaux as a my all purpose red wine glass lately.

Are you daft? You can't pour Burgundy or Brunello in a Bordeaux glass! It might cause a time paradox or reverse the planet's magnetic field.

[J.Vizuete]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

What were you drinking that 09 selosse out of??

[J.Vizuete]

Gabriel Gold Glas Edition
Conterno Giacomo Sensory

disclaimer: I sell both...

Where can one purchase the conterno glass in the US?

[Tom G l a s g o w]

Gabriel Gold Glas Edition
Conterno Giacomo Sensory

disclaimer: I sell both...

Where can one purchase the conterno glass in the US?

Rarewineco.com has the glasses on sale for $75, but it’s prearrival with a June arrival.

[Kirk.Grant]

I did some searches and didn't see much on this particular topic, but forgive me if it's been discussed ad nauseum.

I currently have a couple of stems of Riedel Sommelier Burgundy Grand Cru that I use regularly for myself. But I've noticed that some of the preferred stems around here such as Grassl have a very different look to their Burgundy glass.

Namely, the round shape and wider opening curved out on Riedel.

41eMgbPdl5L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

And the flat bottom and narrower straight opening on the Grassl Cru. Also the Grassl is a bit shorter.

photo-cru.png

I drink a lot of Burgundy and Pinot in general, so just wondering if I'm missing out on something with the Riedel version vs the narrower opening.

Andrew, welcome to the forum first & foremost. I think this is a really good question. I have both glasses you mention here. The Ridel is so much heavier that I rarely use it. What I have found is that the Riedel glass does a better job of "hiding" flaws...but it does not always smell or taste the best from that glass. I recently switched over the the Grassl glass and I'm very happy with them. Chris (CJS Selections) was amazing to work with. It's worth trying them out if you drink wine often and are the least bit geeky about it.

[Andrew K.]

It's worth trying them out if you drink wine often and are the least bit geeky about it.

Thanks! Guilty on both points!

[William Kelley]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

What were you drinking that 09 selosse out of??

That's the Zalto white wine glass. I use it for most Champagne these days. Cédric Bouchard's wines I drink out of the Universal glass.

[William Kelley]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

Oh no, a new glass to consider.

I know, apologies for that... But I do find it very satisfactory, and more forgiving for older wines than the Zalto Burgundy glass, if that makes sense. If it were 10-15% smaller it really would be perfect.

[J.Vizuete]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

What were you drinking that 09 selosse out of??

That's the Zalto white wine glass. I use it for most Champagne these days. Cédric Bouchard's wines I drink out of the Universal glass.

Interesting! For all the talk about zalto, grassl, and GGG, that's a glass not often mentioned and it really stood out as a beautiful glass in the video. I liked the height and angles but clearly much broader than a flute. I may have to start a set at home

[Tom G l a s g o w]

Personally, I have gone over to Conterno's "Sensory" glass for pretty much all mature reds and whites. For younger, whites and reds, I'll use the Zalto Universal and Bordeaux glasses.

Oh no, a new glass to consider.

I know, apologies for that... But I do find it very satisfactory, and more forgiving for older wines than the Zalto Burgundy glass, if that makes sense. If it were 10-15% smaller it really would be perfect.

Well I bit on the RWC deal at $75 each.

[Keith Levenberg]

I love the traditional tulip shape of the Sommelier but it's just too damn huge. Same goes for the Zalto Burgundy and the new Conterno glass. I use Zalto Bordeaux but don't like the angular shape of it. Can't wait till the fashion pendulum swings back to round bowls.

btw, who made this rule that every trendy new wine glass has to be more expensive than the one before? I remember when people thought $15 for a Riedel stem was embarrassing and now people are paying $75 for Conterno glasses the size of a volleyball?

[Brad England]

Like a few others, I'm using the Conterno Sensory glass for virtually all wines, white or red, young or old. I'm also a huge fan of the Zalto Universal, but my usage is way done. I remember tasting at Conterno with Roberto in 2018, and he served all wine tasted in both Sensory and whatever glass they had previously used (I think Zalto but don't remember). I was a quite skeptical, but kept it to myself (we were guests after all). That night I had to admit to my mates that literally every wine tasted better from Sensory. I bought a couple of Sensory glasses once they were commercially available, and now I'm hooked. Rare Wine has a good price on them currently ($75) and donates $25 of that to various Frontline groups. Definitely check out their website if you're looking to pick up a couple and try them.

[Brad England]

I love the traditional tulip shape of the Sommelier but it's just too damn huge. Same goes for the Zalto Burgundy and the new Conterno glass. I use Zalto Bordeaux but don't like the angular shape of it. Can't wait till the fashion pendulum swings back to round bowls.

btw, who made this rule that every trendy new wine glass has to be more expensive than the one before? I remember when people thought $15 for a Riedel stem was embarrassing and now people are paying $75 for Conterno glasses the size of a volleyball?

Keith, can't argue on pricing. But I have eight Sensory glasses at home and nest them (one right side up, next one upside down) in a four by two pattern. The stems are the perfect length to allow tight nesting, and eight really don't take up too much space.
PS, we do like the fact that you're a young curmudgeon.

[Brad England]

By the way, for the original poster - in my opinion the Zalto burgundy glass is hopeless. Not a great drinking glass, and literally an abomination to store or to use in any quantity at a dinner table.

[Marshall Gelb]

Like a few others, I'm using the Conterno Sensory glass for virtually all wines, white or red, young or old. I'm also a huge fan of the Zalto Universal, but my usage is way done. I remember tasting at Conterno with Roberto in 2018, and he served all wine tasted in both Sensory and whatever glass they had previously used (I think Zalto but don't remember). I was a quite skeptical, but kept it to myself (we were guests after all). That night I had to admit to my mates that literally every wine tasted better from Sensory. I bought a couple of Sensory glasses once they were commercially available, and now I'm hooked. Rare Wine has a good price on them currently ($75) and donates $25 of that to various Frontline groups. Definitely check out their website if you're looking to pick up a couple and try them.

Thanks Brad! Need to give them a try.


Cheers!
Marshall

[Alexander Clark]

Like a few others, I'm using the Conterno Sensory glass for virtually all wines, white or red, young or old.

Thanks for the info Brad. I haven't had the pleasure, but will be on the lookout for the Sensory when its available.

I'm a big fan of the Zaltos, mainly the Universal. As you mentioned, the Zalto Burgundy is the size of a small pumpkin, which makes it a bit unwieldy (although it is amazing how light a glass it still is, despite its gourd-like girth.). For work drinking, I use the Universal and Burgundy side by side, as I find they highlight different elements of the wine, which is quite helpful for barrel samples. For finished wine, the Universal is a go-to.

In the tasting room, I use a Korin Burgundy glass, which is clear, doesn't chip, and durable, without the weight of a lead goblet. https://www.korin.com/GL-D105_2. Really good price point as well, at $7, and now on sale for less. For whatever reason the flared tulip lip of the Oregon Riedel really irks me.

[Keith Levenberg]

I love the traditional tulip shape of the Sommelier but it's just too damn huge. Same goes for the Zalto Burgundy and the new Conterno glass. I use Zalto Bordeaux but don't like the angular shape of it. Can't wait till the fashion pendulum swings back to round bowls.

btw, who made this rule that every trendy new wine glass has to be more expensive than the one before? I remember when people thought $15 for a Riedel stem was embarrassing and now people are paying $75 for Conterno glasses the size of a volleyball?

Keith, can't argue on pricing. But I have eight Sensory glasses at home and nest them (one right side up, next one upside down) in a four by two pattern. The stems are the perfect length to allow tight nesting, and eight really don't take up too much space.
PS, we do like the fact that you're a young curmudgeon.

thanks, I'm looking forward to getting old and grizzled, I think I'd be really good at it.
It's not the cabinet space I worry about so much as the dishwasher space and also the general fahrvergnügen in the hand. Some of these giant-bowled glasses feel like the basic act of giving it a swirl might generate so much centripetal force the bowl could disattach at any moment and fly clear across the room.

[chetkern]

Zalto Bordeaux for youNg and old white burgundy.

[Lee Short]

Could one of you who has the Conterno glasses please post a picture of it next to another glass or two. I'm curious about just how large it is. Because Brad is completely right about Zalto burgs -- I have a several, and all but one of them are in a box somewhere. I like to keep one out to occasionally compare with other glasses -- but I don't use it very often other than that.

[Andrew K.]

Got the Grassl 1855 and Cru as well as the Glasvin in yesterday and christened them with a 1975 Ducru. The 1855 is without a doubt the best Bordeaux glass I've ever had. Crazy thin and light, but great balance. The base is like a magnet to the table when you set it down. There's no fear of tipping it over. The wide bowl gives tons of air to the wine and swirls beautifully. The narrower top definitely focuses the nose, but is big enough that it doesn't hit you in the nose when you empty the glass. The thin glass feels amazing on the mouth; like it's not even there.

The lightness of the Glasvin puts the Riedel Somm to shame. However, the lightness of the Grassl puts them both to shame.

The Glasvin is a good universal glass for tastings, maybe beer, older Champagne. But I definitely see myself using the Grassl every day and am ordering more.

[William Kelley]

Could one of you who has the Conterno glasses please post a picture of it next to another glass or two. I'm curious about just how large it is. Because Brad is completely right about Zalto burgs -- I have a several, and all but one of them are in a box somewhere. I like to keep one out to occasionally compare with other glasses -- but I don't use it very often other than that.

I'll try to take one this evening, but it's a little bit smaller than the Zalto Burgundy glass and obviously quite different in profile. While as I mentioned I'd like it even more if it were 10-15% smaller, it's far from the largest glass on the market.

[Ofer Refaeli]

Could one of you who has the Conterno glasses please post a picture of it next to another glass or two. I'm curious about just how large it is. Because Brad is completely right about Zalto burgs -- I have a several, and all but one of them are in a box somewhere. I like to keep one out to occasionally compare with other glasses -- but I don't use it very often other than that.

I hope it helps..

[GregT]

I love the traditional tulip shape of the Sommelier but it's just too damn huge. Same goes for the Zalto Burgundy and the new Conterno glass. I use Zalto Bordeaux but don't like the angular shape of it. Can't wait till the fashion pendulum swings back to round bowls.

btw, who made this rule that every trendy new wine glass has to be more expensive than the one before? I remember when people thought $15 for a Riedel stem was embarrassing and now people are paying $75 for Conterno glasses the size of a volleyball?

Keith, can't argue on pricing. But I have eight Sensory glasses at home and nest them (one right side up, next one upside down) in a four by two pattern. The stems are the perfect length to allow tight nesting, and eight really don't take up too much space.
PS, we do like the fact that you're a young curmudgeon.

thanks, I'm looking forward to getting old and grizzled, I think I'd be really good at it.
It's not the cabinet space I worry about so much as the dishwasher space and also the general fahrvergnügen in the hand. Some of these giant-bowled glasses feel like the basic act of giving it a swirl might generate so much centripetal force the bowl could disattach at any moment and fly clear across the room.

Hey it's worth it if you believe the glass can change where the wine hits the palate. That swirl might be the difference between the sweet spot and a complete fail.

[Marcus Goodfellow]

Thanks for the tips guys. I decided to order a Grassl 1855 and Cru to get the chance to test out with different wines and compare.

Some friends and I did that pre-quarantine. We tried 5 wines in 5 different glasses. The shape of the glass change the nose, for sure. But it also changed where the wine hit the palate, which made a huge difference and not always in a good way.

I've started recording the stem in my CT notes, so I can make better wine / stem pairings.

(I need therapy.)

I completely agree with this post! (Except for the therapy part. That I am unqualified to judge but will take your word for it).