I’m relatively new to white wines with more than a few years’ age. I haven’t had what I consider to be a genuinely prematurely oxidized or advanced bottle, but my experience is certainly limited due to my lack of familiarity with older whites.
Tonight, I opened a 2015 Patrick Piuze Chablis 1er Cru Les Fôrets. Upon pouring it into my glass, I was rather shocked by the golden colour - then came the wild aromatics. Upon first sniff, the nose is totally unlike any other Chablis I’ve ever had - butterscotch/Werther’s, orange, yellow/brown apple, honey, white flowers, some flinty reductive notes as well. Much the same on the palate, with some saline qualities but not that classic mineral stoniness of Chablis. It’s certainly rounded with present but not pronounced acidity, but that wouldn’t surprise me given the vintage. It doesn’t smell apple cider-y or particularly funky (I work with a lot of natural wine so I sort of know those tell-tales) - ultimately, I really have no context for this wine and it’s certainly drinkable and I’m fascinated, if more than a bit flummoxed.
I threw it into a decanter to see if some air would change anything. The picture doesn’t quite do it justice - it is an even deeper gold. It seems pretty advanced in both colour and aroma for a five-year-old wine.
Any thoughts? I did a search and read a couple of older threads here about Piuze wines being advanced or premoxed in the early to mid-2010s, but not much since.
Brown apple and butterscotch sound like oxidative notes, and the color is worrisome. Not sure what to say about the gunflint, although I’m not sure that we’re always accurate in attributing certain wine characteristics to specific causes (ie does gunflint always represent reduction?) the other key thing is–what happened to the wine with time/air? an oxidized wine typically gets worse. There are other, off color, weird wines that improve with air (and get lighter in color).
How long was it in the decanter (when you took the pic, and total)?
A while ago, I opened a bottle of 2012 Pierre Boisson Auxey-Duresses 1er Cru En Reugne with a group. It was a dark color out of the bottle (not as dark as yours, but noticably dark), and had notes similar to what you described. Despite the color, I decided it was reductive (not a hard guess for Boisson Vadot), so I threw it in a decanter (tall/narrow) for 2-3 hours (in the fridge for the first part). Both the color and character/flavors completely righted themselves (I was a bit surprised re the color), turning it into an absolutely brilliant wine that impressed everyone (mostly itb). This was several years ago…oh, wait, it was in February, it just seems like years.
As a side note, my 2016 Ladd Sonoma Coast Chard can be a bit reductive, giving it a slightly tired & an uninteresting butterscotch character (aged in 100% older oak, so not from that). With some air they’re exceptional. My usual approach is to open the bottle in the morning, double decant part of the bottle (pour some into a 2 cup pyrex glass measuring cup and pour it back in the bottle…the pyrex because its pouring lip perfectly fits in the bottle & doesn’t spill, even when I’m in a rush!). Take the bottle out of the fridge an hour+ before consuming.
My 2014 can be the same way a bit (both are well structured and have a ~3.15pH, so I expect them to live ‘forever’). My 2017 benefits from the same approach, except a couple hours ahead.
On re-reading this sounds more like premox than reductive…the Boisson Vadot I mentioned above (and my 16 SC) are quite structured on opening, making those a different kettle of fish I believe.
Very true - I almost always associate flint with reductive qualities but it’s clearly at odds with the broadness of the wine.
It’s now been popped and in the decanter for 3+ hours and not much has changed as far as “worse”. Bizarrely, it’s now turned slightly more towards flat, lees-y champagne that’s been open for awhile. I suppose oxidized is the most likely culprit if not completely “premoxed”.
It does sound quite different from your wines - the fact that it was so flamboyant off the top gives me reason to suspect otherwise.
If it weren’t for the brown apple, I’d be more willing to consider the reductive thing. A number of confusing wines get dumped as pre-moxed, when they don’t truly have oxidized characteristics. All you need to do is give it a little time and some air, and it will settle the issue for you.
Sounds like either premox or bad storage to me…the butterscotch/caramel note can be found with either in my mind. Any Sherry notes at all? Does the restaurant you purchased from keep their wines stored well? Many restaurants don’t take care of their wines properly.
Piuze has certainly not been immune to advanced and oxidised wines. From the colour and your description, that is likely to be the case here. Another equally likely cause is terrible storage - which is actually extremely common in restaurants, so quite different from what you assumed. I believe I actually have some of this so might need to get it out to check in soon !
No sherry per se. I assume they have a basement cellar of some kind but they are a small local wine bar so I would hazard that storage was in the passable to acceptable range.
Please let me know and let me live vicariously through you!
Certainly sounds oxidized. And the color for these Chardonnay based wines is typically diagnostic as well (we lined up Fevre Chablis about 5 years ago and there was a perfect correlation between the darkness of the wine and the premox state)…
!