Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

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Mark Golodetz
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Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#1 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 28th, 2020, 12:44 pm

Keeping away for the most part, but will buy if it looks like a really good deal, and of course, is something I want. So far, it is just Trapet and Champagne.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#2 Post by NED VALOIS » March 28th, 2020, 1:01 pm

Out, unless a steal & I want.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#3 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 28th, 2020, 1:07 pm

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#4 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 28th, 2020, 1:15 pm

On thing that struck me today, got yet another emailer today from a well known retailer touting a $300 wine. This retailer has had quite a few emailers back to back with very very high-end wines, as if nothing is going on in the universe or with our economy.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#5 Post by Scott Brunson » March 28th, 2020, 1:19 pm

Out for now.
Waiting for tax bill and news about employment for next year.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#6 Post by Barry L i p t o n » March 28th, 2020, 1:54 pm

Already had too much wine for a normal life expectancy.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#7 Post by Jason T » March 28th, 2020, 2:20 pm

Out for now, but part of that is a function of already having 18 Burgundy, Rhône and Loire and 19 Tempier Rose out of the way.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#8 Post by joz€f p1nxten » March 28th, 2020, 2:27 pm

Only buying from a few restaurant holders I know well that have offered some wine. Impulse buys definitely much lower.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#9 Post by RyanC » March 28th, 2020, 2:29 pm

Keeping my powder dry. But I’m keeping an eye out for deals and will buy when the price is right.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#10 Post by Joshua Kates » March 28th, 2020, 3:41 pm

Yes, keeping an eye out for deals, though it's too easy to convince myself I found one and buy more wine that I don't need or want. As to what Robert said, other than sales--free shipping, 10% off and so on--US retailers seem not to have come down out at all. On the other hand, BV Vins, out of Switzerland, from which I know some retailers in the US source, everyday has been sending out revised price lists on their stock, all of which is now selling for less.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#11 Post by Anton D » March 28th, 2020, 4:00 pm

Out for now.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#12 Post by Matt A » March 28th, 2020, 4:12 pm

Buying, but only if price is right.....aka a real deal.

For example: Got an email from Schramsberg. Maybe because we had to cancel our tour last week, killer deal, will be buying.

On the flip side Futo offered there 2017 Oakville Estate like nothing is going on. $1050 3 pack. 🧐👎🏻

Credit to Vice Versa. Decided to postpone their offering for at least a month. “ We feel priorities should be elsewhere right now, and don’t want to burden you during a difficult time.“
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#13 Post by A Ballin » March 28th, 2020, 4:33 pm

Out for now.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#14 Post by Peter Shurman » March 28th, 2020, 5:15 pm

still selectively buying

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#15 Post by SZZimmermann » March 28th, 2020, 5:22 pm

Too busy doing nothing house bound to buy wine
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#16 Post by Howard Cooper » March 28th, 2020, 5:39 pm

I have been cutting way back on buying for the last two years (too old with too much wine and wine prices have gotten silly) and probably will be cutting back even more this year. That said, if I see a good price on 2008 CdC I probably will buy some and may buy a couple of other producers I buy regularly. Wake me up if there are good deals - have not seen any yet and it will take huge drops in wine prices just to get back to semi reasonable.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#17 Post by Dale Bowers » March 28th, 2020, 5:41 pm

You know people aren’t buying when I got offers for wine I never have before. DRC and Leroy. And no, I’m not buying.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#18 Post by Ed Steinway » March 28th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Buying very selectively. Bought a case of Keenan Merlot for 50% off. My wife loves the wine and the price was really good. Easy call there! Not currently buying anything on the high-end as I think there is going to be some downward pressure on prices.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#19 Post by Bill Johnson » March 28th, 2020, 5:44 pm

Buying. I never sell and I keep out only when I am too busy to buy. The main change is that I am thinking about buying for our main home instead of our relatively new lake house because we cannot travel there in the near future and we are consuming more than usual. My main problem is that I have had so many problems with retail stores and auction houses (including the one you used recently) that there are few places where I am willing to buy on line.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#20 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » March 28th, 2020, 5:49 pm

Selectively buying. Never sold. Ever.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#21 Post by M. Meer » March 28th, 2020, 5:53 pm

I'd say keeping out, but that would be a lie 🤐.
MO remains the same... Best available for the price, and there have been a few silly ones out there.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#22 Post by K. Tr@n » March 28th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Out unless it is a screaming deal. Plenty to drink at home anyway. Cash is king at this point.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#23 Post by Markus S » March 28th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Why would you? People shouldn't let external factors like the economy factor into drinking wine.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#24 Post by PaulMills » March 28th, 2020, 6:25 pm

Buying some here and there. Mostly deals, but some things I just want. I reduced my 2019 purchases by 30% from 2018 and am looking to reduce again in 2020. If it coincides with the current economic situation, it is coincidence.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#25 Post by Eric Sch » March 28th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Still targeted buying - specifically remaining new releases of 2015 birth year wines for my daughter and Champagne.

Spend is down about 20% from previously but I anticipate it trailing off more. Mostly 2015 Champagnes left to buy. Then my cellar is in good long term shape so I'll move to inventory maintenance and short term drinkers.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#26 Post by Kevin Porter » March 28th, 2020, 6:35 pm

Out before the plague and when in, solidly in the old world but now wishing to support domestics.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#27 Post by Bob Davis » March 28th, 2020, 6:37 pm

Waiting for deals. Haven't seen too many yet.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#28 Post by DavidFrankil » March 28th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 1:19 pm
Out for now.
Waiting for tax bill and news about employment for next year.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#29 Post by Randy Bowman » March 28th, 2020, 6:47 pm

I'm seeing good deals but two things keep me from jumping on them. First is not knowing how long it will be before normalcy and secondly, the deal price today may be more than the new retail price when this is over.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#30 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 28th, 2020, 7:17 pm

Just bought some Cognac, a screaming deal. First screamer I have seen.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#31 Post by Eric S n y d e r » March 28th, 2020, 7:29 pm

I’ve been selectively buying from smaller producers that I would hate to see go under, plus my LWS.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#32 Post by alan weinberg » March 28th, 2020, 7:57 pm

K. Tr@n wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 6:12 pm
Out unless it is a screaming deal. Plenty to drink at home anyway. Cash is king at this point.
+1. So far no screaming deals though very tempted a couple times.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#33 Post by Tom Reddick » March 28th, 2020, 10:23 pm

With the recent move, I sent about 20 cases to two separate auction houses for online auction as a little house cleaning, and so far so good. But I did not sell anything over about $250 a bottle- and most of it was in the $35-50 per bottle range. The bidding is a bit slower than normal, but not too much, and for the winebid offerings where I can see how many people are tracking each lot- I am seeing a huge uptick in the number of watchers per lot.

I did not have time to watch it start to finish, but I watched several sections of the Acker Asia sale last night- and from what I saw wines were selling pretty well. The unsold lots I observed were all older Italian offerings- but that sector was already weakening quite a bit last fall. Wines like DRC, after the modest corrections of last fall, were hanging in there well.

On the buy side- I am bidding very little because there is not much I need, but the same advice I gave recently holds- keep watch for the really good wines that are either not quite A list or are not from A list vintages. There are definitely some nice deals in things like top 08 Bordeaux and the better 13-14 red burgs, but they are few and far between since most lots are focused on A list wines from A list vintages.

I am told in some circles that advance absentee bidding is light as people are not wanting to commit too far ahead- and remember that a lot of auction wines are sold to brokers or retailers where that is legal. So it is as much a reflection of worried merchants as perhaps private collectors. And so far, come auction day results remain solid.

The future is hard to predict. 2008's most immediate and dramatic hit was to the investor and finance community which is where a lot of the heavy high end wine buying is focused. And so there you saw a very immediate drop from which the markets recovered a few months later as China stepped in and became a significant force on the buy side.

What is happening now is having, at the moment, a very hard impact on specific sectors of the market- but many areas remain somewhat insulated plus you have a lot of people sitting at home who are turning to online options to go shopping. And while this may well impact many aspects of our future daily life- I think most people understand the current way of life is very temporary in nature.

If shelter-in-place orders in the US and abroad last more than another month (which I think is possible), then the long-term impacts become far more worrying and with a far wider impact. That is when we could potentially see some strong impact on the auction market- but it is impossible to predict at this time.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#34 Post by c fu » March 29th, 2020, 12:29 am

if deals are good i'm in. I haven't seen any retailer deals, but i've jumped on a fair amount of restaurant deals
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#35 Post by A1ex H » March 29th, 2020, 5:53 am

I'm buying as normal and will increase what I purchase if I start to see great deals on wines I like and would buy at full price. I'm trying to avoid buying things just because they're great deals.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#36 Post by jason stein » March 29th, 2020, 5:58 am

Buying as normal, more if there are good deals.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#37 Post by Steve L Gellman » March 29th, 2020, 6:01 am

Peter Shurman wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 5:15 pm
still selectively buying

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#38 Post by YLee » March 29th, 2020, 6:24 am

Buying great deals or something I love only. Not because of the virus/economic situation. More for healthy living.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#39 Post by Fred Davis » March 29th, 2020, 8:07 am

Nibbling at inexpnsive quality wine deals for daily drinking just to have some extra around. But for much more expensive wine, will wait for great deals like 50% off.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#40 Post by Dale Williams » March 29th, 2020, 8:14 am

Markus S wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 6:18 pm
Why would you? People shouldn't let external factors like the economy factor into drinking wine.
Really? I've never bought wine in my life except to drink, but I certainly factor in whether I expect the wine to be cheaper or more expensive in the near future, as well as my personal finances.

I've recently bought mixed cases of everyday whites from Posner and Chambers, as I don't like opening Cotat, Carillon or Boulay when we need a cup or two of cooking wine. But it would have to be a compelling deal (40% off recent pricing) for me to buy an expensive wine I love. I'm usually an optimist, but I think there is a real chance- though not probability- that we could see a real depression. I've taken a voluntary paycut rather than layoff workers who can't come in (though also paying them less). While I have a pretty secure job a real depression would mean some jobs thought invulnerable - academia, public employees, etc.- might not be. I'll personally be very cautious for a while.

But I certainly don't plan on selling wine, I think anyone sending wine to auction now might be in for unpleasant results. I'll drink what I have (will last decades).

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#41 Post by Jeff Vaughan » March 29th, 2020, 8:38 am

Very selectively buying. I am shocked at how little I have bought this first quarter. Mostly Champagne, a little Roagna, and I forget what else. This is a good time to weed out the cellar and think about what I should be buying going forward.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#42 Post by Michael Martin » March 29th, 2020, 8:41 am

Buying only what I can’t resist. Picked up some more Dirty and Rowdy this morning. I had no idea Mourvèdre could taste like theirs.

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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#43 Post by Scott G r u n e r » March 29th, 2020, 8:45 am

Same as before. Buying wines I know I like at good deals for them.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#44 Post by I. Howe » March 29th, 2020, 8:49 am

Out. I bought a ton (for me) over the winter and on BD. My cellar is a fuller than it has ever been. I would have needed to slow down anyway, but this has had me stop completely.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#45 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » March 29th, 2020, 9:01 am

Side lines

Between wine, scotch and bourbon, I have well enough to ride out the zombie apocalypse and most of my expected natural life span. Think I only have a few cases outstanding from orders earlier in the year.

Not in to selling; have traded though.

Probably will sit that way until the fall.
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#46 Post by Mike Reff » March 29th, 2020, 10:21 am

Always looking, should be some deals out there, waiting.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#47 Post by Jay Miller » March 29th, 2020, 10:37 am

I had been severely restricting my buying before the whole sheltering in place thing happened. Unfortunately when everything got canceled about 75% of what I had on hand was allocated for postponed events.

So I picked up a half case of inexpensive wines from CSW both to support them and to have something that I wouldn't feel guilty about opening.

More worryingly I've found that sitting at home in front of a computer or ipad more often is a recipe for checking wine stores/auction sites. I have several bids in on this week's winebid auction. And after last night's Musar call I ordered a half case of the 2005 Chateau Musar rouge.

So my buying has unintentionally increased. I had planned to buy nothing but 2008 Comtes for the first half of the year.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#48 Post by Markus S » March 29th, 2020, 10:46 am

Dale Williams wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 8:14 am
Markus S wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 6:18 pm
Why would you? People shouldn't let external factors like the economy factor into drinking wine.
Really? I've never bought wine in my life except to drink, but I certainly factor in whether I expect the wine to be cheaper or more expensive in the near future, as well as my personal finances.

I've recently bought mixed cases of everyday whites from Posner and Chambers, as I don't like opening Cotat, Carillon or Boulay when we need a cup or two of cooking wine. But it would have to be a compelling deal (40% off recent pricing) for me to buy an expensive wine I love. I'm usually an optimist, but I think there is a real chance- though not probability- that we could see a real depression. I've taken a voluntary paycut rather than layoff workers who can't come in (though also paying them less). While I have a pretty secure job a real depression would mean some jobs thought invulnerable - academia, public employees, etc.- might not be. I'll personally be very cautious for a while.

But I certainly don't plan on selling wine, I think anyone sending wine to auction now might be in for unpleasant results. I'll drink what I have (will last decades).
Dale, let me clarify. If - like Thomas Jefferson - you agree that wine is a necessity of life (and I'm quite sure most of the readers on this site do), you shouldn't take the external factors into play when deciding whether or not to drink wine, since this is the same as buying groceries and things like toilet paper. You need it, it is not an option. This being said, there may be certain macroeconomic events which change the calculus, but even during the Great Depression people were still drinking. They might have been making wine at home but they were still drinking. Economics may have some say in how these drinking dollars are allocated, but that is a different matter. For anybody with a reasonably full cellar (define as you will), probably you don't need as much new wine to buy, so that decision will have already been made for you, particularly if you have less income now, but this is, in a way, living off your economic reserve. We still have plenty to drink. I will still be buying those wines that are small production or otherwise unobtainable soon after a new vintage or those that I sense a gap of. But we still drink wine and the cycle of life continues. If wine is our air, it is necessary to life.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#49 Post by ERPark » March 29th, 2020, 11:32 am

Got in on a resto deal with a forumite for a few nice, higher-end bottles to lay down for a long time. Not actively looking, but have enough “dry powder” available should something else TGTBT comes along.
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Re: Buying, selling or keeping out of the wine market?

#50 Post by Lorenzo F » March 29th, 2020, 12:03 pm

Some think all this rescue packages will result in some inflation . May be like all other physical assets could do well with a bit of inflation .
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