Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
Steve Eisenhauer
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1690
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 2:02 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#51 Post by Steve Eisenhauer » March 16th, 2020, 10:16 am

In the summer of 1986, Morrell in NYC was having a close out sale for one of their many moves. I saw a North Fork Merlot I had never heard of, Lenz, on sale for $4.99. I grabbed a couple bottles and opened one that night. The next day, I bought another case. It remains one of the most amazing young merlots I have ever had.
ITB - Congruence Wines

Daniel Kim
Posts: 329
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 12:19 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#52 Post by Daniel Kim » March 16th, 2020, 10:22 am

Juge Cornas, when it used to sit on shelves and I could get it for $49 with my case discount.

Julian Haart Schubertslay Kabinett, also when it used to sit on shelves at $30.

1978 Clos du Val Cabernet recently drank, purchased for $90 at auction.

Gonon VV at $80, ok I'll stop...

User avatar
Br1an Th0rne
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 313
Joined: May 28th, 2009, 9:37 pm
Location: Just outside of Philly

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#53 Post by Br1an Th0rne » March 16th, 2020, 10:30 am

About two years into my wine journey in the late 90’s the Barrelli Creek vineyard Cabernets completely blew me away; I think it was the ‘95 or ‘96 that I bought cases of!

Recently, the ‘96 GPL has, for my tastes, performed about as well as I could hope for any wine. If every wine that I open showed as well as the 96 GPL, even those that cost several times more, I’d be happy.

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 23081
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#54 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 16th, 2020, 10:55 am

Daniel Kim wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:22 am
Juge Cornas, when it used to sit on shelves and I could get it for $49 with my case discount.

Julian Haart Schubertslay Kabinett, also when it used to sit on shelves at $30.

1978 Clos du Val Cabernet recently drank, purchased for $90 at auction.

Gonon VV at $80, ok I'll stop...
Sheez, the money post. All of the above, and I concur. Incidentally, Bern's had the 87 Clos du Val by the glass for much of last year for like $15. It was excellent. Didn't even need to leave the bar.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

User avatar
Brian Lynch
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1170
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 8:36 am
Location: Philly

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#55 Post by Brian Lynch » March 16th, 2020, 12:06 pm

Michael S. Monie wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 11:46 am
I'm drinking it right now: 2010 Forman Cabernet Sauvignon. This is a wow wine. The last time that I had it a couple of years ago there was a strong cedar component that I found to be distracting. No longer. This has integrated and is at the beginning of what I'm sure will be a long and graceful evolution. It could easily go head to head with a $300 Bordeaux from a strong vintage. Glad I went long.
Will have to check in on mine. Thanks
Howlin' Wolf (1910 - 1976)

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18546
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#56 Post by Howard Cooper » March 16th, 2020, 12:15 pm

David Glasser wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 6:21 pm
1982 La Lagune. Held its own with the 1982 first growths at a dinner last month.
David, you must have unbelievable willpower. My 1982 la Lagune was consumed many years ago. [cheers.gif]
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

User avatar
AndyK
Posts: 340
Joined: February 17th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#57 Post by AndyK » March 16th, 2020, 12:15 pm

Mark E. wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 9:33 am
AndyK wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 11:22 am
A couple of bottles that come to mind...

2005 Henri Boillot Corton-Charlemagne -- was expecting it to be very good, but it was phenomenal
1995 Williams Selyem Pinot Noir Summa Vineyard -- didn't expect CA Pinot could be that good
1993 Faiveley Latricières-Chambertin -- one of the best Burgundy experiences I've had
2010 Nikolaihof Riesling Reserve Steiner Hund -- doesn't get better for $40
Great to hear about the Faiveley Latricières. I've been getting into Burgundy, can't justify the prices for the majority of the grands crus, but did pick up a bottle of the 2005 a month ago when I saw a great price. When did you drink the 93?

My pick would be a pair of bottles of 1973 Viña Valoria Reserva that I found hidden in a wine shop that was closing last year. $50/bottle and they were both perfect. Haven't found a QPR for aged Rioja like that outside of Spain.
We had it about half a year ago and it was outstanding! I've also had other Faiveley from 93, which turned out to be great (although not quite as good as the Latricieres)
k0berl

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7384
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#58 Post by David Glasser » March 16th, 2020, 12:32 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 12:15 pm
David Glasser wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 6:21 pm
1982 La Lagune. Held its own with the 1982 first growths at a dinner last month.
David, you must have unbelievable willpower. My 1982 la Lagune was consumed many years ago. [cheers.gif]
I wish, and not just for opening bottles.
A friend brought it. Secondary market purchase I believe.

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18546
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#59 Post by Howard Cooper » March 16th, 2020, 12:39 pm

David Glasser wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 12:32 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 12:15 pm
David Glasser wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 6:21 pm
1982 La Lagune. Held its own with the 1982 first growths at a dinner last month.
David, you must have unbelievable willpower. My 1982 la Lagune was consumed many years ago. [cheers.gif]
I wish, and not just for opening bottles.
A friend brought it. Secondary market purchase I believe.
Buying it for $7 a bottle in 1983 was better than a secondary market purchase.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

User avatar
Pat Martin
Posts: 2747
Joined: May 22nd, 2011, 11:38 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#60 Post by Pat Martin » March 16th, 2020, 1:40 pm

I retired Chateau Meyney’s number for this category a long time ago. The 82, 83, 85, 86, 88, and 89 were/are amongst the wine world’s greatest over performers ever.
P@ tr!ck M 8rt!n

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14603
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#61 Post by Jay Miller » March 16th, 2020, 1:51 pm

Mike Evans wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 5:59 am
Clos Roche Blanche, pretty much universally but the Côt in particular.
You beat me to it. Any Clos Roche Blanche but I'll go with the 2012 L'Arpent Rouge in particular.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Mike DiSalvo
Posts: 1972
Joined: August 2nd, 2011, 12:03 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#62 Post by Mike DiSalvo » March 16th, 2020, 2:04 pm

1990 Chateau d' Armailhac
1991 Caymus Cab
1991 Cain Five
1992 Flora Springs Reserve CS
1994 Leonetti Cab
M!ke Di$alvo

D@ve D y r 0 f f
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1056
Joined: May 14th, 2016, 9:22 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#63 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 16th, 2020, 3:04 pm

1986 Meyney
1987 Quail Ridge Cab (at the big blowout price so many of us got back in the early '90s)

More recently, 2014 Domaine Grand Nicolet Côtes du Rhône

patrick c albright
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 653
Joined: July 26th, 2009, 9:53 am
Location: bend/napa

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#64 Post by patrick c albright » March 16th, 2020, 3:57 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:55 am
Daniel Kim wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 10:22 am
Juge Cornas, when it used to sit on shelves and I could get it for $49 with my case discount.

Julian Haart Schubertslay Kabinett, also when it used to sit on shelves at $30.

1978 Clos du Val Cabernet recently drank, purchased for $90 at auction.

Gonon VV at $80, ok I'll stop...
Sheez, the money post. All of the above, and I concur. Incidentally, Bern's had the 87 Clos du Val by the glass for much of last year for like $15. It was excellent. Didn't even need to leave the bar.
I can drink Gonon VV for €80– on a wine list in France pretty much any time I want.
The wine is not on my list.

The point of the thread is not deals.
Anybody who has been buying wine for over fifteen years has plenty of stories.
ITB

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 23081
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#65 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 16th, 2020, 4:04 pm

I have no idea what the point of your terse post was.

Juge was a HUGE over-performer for Cornas regardless of price. I also think Gonon VV is a HUGE over-performer for St. Joseph. You may disagree, but there are at least two people on this short thread that think so. I would happily pay premium today for either of these wines.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

Mike Evans
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3252
Joined: January 30th, 2012, 9:22 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#66 Post by Mike Evans » March 16th, 2020, 8:07 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Mike Evans wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 5:59 am
Clos Roche Blanche, pretty much universally but the Côt in particular.
You beat me to it. Any Clos Roche Blanche but I'll go with the 2012 L'Arpent Rouge in particular.
The 2012 L’Arpent Rouge is pretty spectacular.

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 15567
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#67 Post by Craig G » March 16th, 2020, 10:59 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 1:40 pm
I retired Chateau Meyney’s number for this category a long time ago. The 82, 83, 85, 86, 88, and 89 were/are amongst the wine world’s greatest over performers ever.
I agree and I would add the 1990 which surprised me as it didn’t seem as good when it was young. I had it on the same table as 1990 Latour and it wasn’t far behind.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

User avatar
Nowell Karten
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 703
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#68 Post by Nowell Karten » March 17th, 2020, 1:02 am

1966 Chevillot Savigny-Les-Beaune A.C. "Reserve des Caves de L'Hotel de la Poste"

Purchased for $6 at a local wine shop's close-out table in January, 2015, and consumed two weeks later. Below is the note I posted that night after finishing the bottle:

Fill was almost 3 inches below the cork, and there was a large amount of "dirt" on top of the cork, underneath the capsule. After decanting for sediment, the wine's center was a pale, rusty red that became orange towards the outside and clear at its edge. The nose was full of roasted meat, dried flowers, spice, and forest floor. Initially, the palate had savory flavors of dried fruit and spice in a light body that had a long, tangy finish that at moments seemed a little volatile. With 30 to 45 minutes of air, the flavors became richer, the body seemed more medium-weight, and the finish was without flaw.

Under any circumstances, the wine in the glass would have been wonderfully enjoyable to me. Given the appearance of the bottle, its unknown storage-history, its humble appellation, and its bottling by a negociant who was previously unknown to me, the wine in the glass was truly incredible.
In the little moment that remains to us between the crisis and the catastrophe,...

PCLIN
Posts: 1471
Joined: August 3rd, 2013, 9:45 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#69 Post by PCLIN » March 17th, 2020, 4:15 am

1991 Rousseau Ruchottes
1993 Rousseau Ruchottes

At around 8 to 10 years old. I finished two cases each in no time.
Chiu Lin

Barry P
Posts: 474
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 9:00 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#70 Post by Barry P » March 17th, 2020, 5:58 am

dcornutt wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 1:17 pm
1947 Quancard Fleurie
From Bern's...agreed. It is what caused me to go long on 09 Fleurie.
--B@rry Per$hkØw

Barry P
Posts: 474
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 9:00 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#71 Post by Barry P » March 17th, 2020, 5:59 am

1995 Araujo Eisele. A ridiculous wine in a mediocre vintage.
--B@rry Per$hkØw

eweininger
Posts: 273
Joined: January 25th, 2011, 6:48 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#72 Post by eweininger » March 17th, 2020, 5:43 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Mike Evans wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 5:59 am
Clos Roche Blanche, pretty much universally but the Côt in particular.
You beat me to it. Any Clos Roche Blanche but I'll go with the 2012 L'Arpent Rouge in particular.
For me it was the CRB Cot—albeit with the caveat that i didn’t really have expectations to measure against. But it was such an unusual wine, with so many hard to describe flavors, simultaneously restrained and a bit in your face...it really made me curious about the producer, the region, and ultimately, the Loire in general.

Other than the Sauvignon, the CRB wines were pretty hard to find. Never got to try the L’Arpent Rouge, unfortunately.
Elliot

User avatar
alan weinberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12750
Joined: April 25th, 2009, 1:23 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#73 Post by alan weinberg » March 17th, 2020, 6:05 pm

Nowell Karten wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 1:02 am
1966 Chevillot Savigny-Les-Beaune A.C. "Reserve des Caves de L'Hotel de la Poste"

Purchased for $6 at a local wine shop's close-out table in January, 2015, and consumed two weeks later. Below is the note I posted that night after finishing the bottle:

Fill was almost 3 inches below the cork, and there was a large amount of "dirt" on top of the cork, underneath the capsule. After decanting for sediment, the wine's center was a pale, rusty red that became orange towards the outside and clear at its edge. The nose was full of roasted meat, dried flowers, spice, and forest floor. Initially, the palate had savory flavors of dried fruit and spice in a light body that had a long, tangy finish that at moments seemed a little volatile. With 30 to 45 minutes of air, the flavors became richer, the body seemed more medium-weight, and the finish was without flaw.

Under any circumstances, the wine in the glass would have been wonderfully enjoyable to me. Given the appearance of the bottle, its unknown storage-history, its humble appellation, and its bottling by a negociant who was previously unknown to me, the wine in the glass was truly incredible.
exactly the kind of post I hoped for in starting the thread.

User avatar
Nowell Karten
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 703
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#74 Post by Nowell Karten » March 17th, 2020, 6:12 pm

[cheers.gif]
In the little moment that remains to us between the crisis and the catastrophe,...

User avatar
Fred Daniels
Posts: 252
Joined: May 14th, 2010, 11:34 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#75 Post by Fred Daniels » March 17th, 2020, 10:14 pm

Recently, the 2002 Dom Ruinart is a miracle of complexity, while I expected an excellent wine, this blew away a host of other great names. A 1928 Coutet at 60 years old was a revelation. A 1979 Branaire Ducru opened my palate to the possibilities of mid range bordeaux. Old (20+ years) petite sirahs are often a huge surprise. I think the key for me is to drink a wine (or individual bottle) when it is at a high point of drinkability.
MWM seeks '28 Coutet...

Ron Erickson
Posts: 5625
Joined: April 26th, 2010, 4:18 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#76 Post by Ron Erickson » March 17th, 2020, 10:43 pm

I believe this question was decided a few years ago.

viewtopic.php?p=1599259#p1599259

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14603
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#77 Post by Jay Miller » March 18th, 2020, 7:35 am

eweininger wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 5:43 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Mike Evans wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 5:59 am
Clos Roche Blanche, pretty much universally but the Côt in particular.
You beat me to it. Any Clos Roche Blanche but I'll go with the 2012 L'Arpent Rouge in particular.
For me it was the CRB Cot—albeit with the caveat that i didn’t really have expectations to measure against. But it was such an unusual wine, with so many hard to describe flavors, simultaneously restrained and a bit in your face...it really made me curious about the producer, the region, and ultimately, the Loire in general.

Other than the Sauvignon, the CRB wines were pretty hard to find. Never got to try the L’Arpent Rouge, unfortunately.
Oh the Cot was fantastic and was often the best of what was a uniformly fantastic lineup. Though I'll admit to avoiding early vintages of the sauvignon #5 when they had just gotten the new barrel.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

D@ve D y r 0 f f
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1056
Joined: May 14th, 2016, 9:22 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#78 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 18th, 2020, 7:09 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:
March 16th, 2020, 3:04 pm
More recently, 2014 Domaine Grand Nicolet Côtes du Rhône
Just opened another bottle tonight. Not sure this will be at peak for more than another year or two, but it’s rocking right now! [cheers.gif]

User avatar
Jeremy Holmes
Posts: 6916
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 3:50 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#79 Post by Jeremy Holmes » March 18th, 2020, 8:13 pm

Probably a Magnum of 1956 Domaine de la Romanée-Conti La Tâche, Grand Cru purchased from a mate of mine in Paris. A very poor year. It had a fill that was around high shoulder. The cork was very crumbly but had provided a good seal. I gave it a 6 hours Audouze and it really did perform above expectations. There was some honey and nuts to the aroma, along with Hoisin, soy, forest floor and decaying plant matter. It had some vinous sweetness in the mouth and loads of savoury nuance. It wasn't particularly deep or long but was beguiling, changing with each sip and gaining dimension. There were some dried herb and floral spice and acidity was fresh on the finish and the salty soy flavours lingered.
ITB

User avatar
William Kelley
Posts: 1925
Joined: June 4th, 2014, 1:36 am
Location: London, Calistoga & Beaune

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#80 Post by William Kelley » March 19th, 2020, 12:08 am

Nowell Karten wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 1:02 am
1966 Chevillot Savigny-Les-Beaune A.C. "Reserve des Caves de L'Hotel de la Poste"

Purchased for $6 at a local wine shop's close-out table in January, 2015, and consumed two weeks later. Below is the note I posted that night after finishing the bottle:

Fill was almost 3 inches below the cork, and there was a large amount of "dirt" on top of the cork, underneath the capsule. After decanting for sediment, the wine's center was a pale, rusty red that became orange towards the outside and clear at its edge. The nose was full of roasted meat, dried flowers, spice, and forest floor. Initially, the palate had savory flavors of dried fruit and spice in a light body that had a long, tangy finish that at moments seemed a little volatile. With 30 to 45 minutes of air, the flavors became richer, the body seemed more medium-weight, and the finish was without flaw.

Under any circumstances, the wine in the glass would have been wonderfully enjoyable to me. Given the appearance of the bottle, its unknown storage-history, its humble appellation, and its bottling by a negociant who was previously unknown to me, the wine in the glass was truly incredible.
This would have come from the cellars of the Hotel de la Poste in Beaune, which was at one point the most renowned hotel and restaurant in Beaune as I understand it. So I guess they bought the wine from a good grower!
The Wine Advocate

User avatar
Nowell Karten
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 703
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#81 Post by Nowell Karten » March 19th, 2020, 12:46 am

William Kelley wrote:
March 19th, 2020, 12:08 am
Nowell Karten wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 1:02 am
1966 Chevillot Savigny-Les-Beaune A.C. "Reserve des Caves de L'Hotel de la Poste"
This would have come from the cellars of the Hotel de la Poste in Beaune, which was at one point the most renowned hotel and restaurant in Beaune as I understand it. So I guess they bought the wine from a good grower!
After I bought the two bottles, William, I did some internet research on Chevillot and the Hotel de la Poste. Though I now can't find the reference, I remember reading that an older Chevillot was among the hotel's ownership, and it seemed his son-negociant was providing wines for the hotel.
In the little moment that remains to us between the crisis and the catastrophe,...

User avatar
Thomas Keim
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 11048
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 5:52 pm
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#82 Post by Thomas Keim » March 20th, 2020, 10:02 am

Nowell Karten wrote:
March 17th, 2020, 1:02 am
1966 Chevillot Savigny-Les-Beaune A.C. "Reserve des Caves de L'Hotel de la Poste"

Purchased for $6 at a local wine shop's close-out table in January, 2015, and consumed two weeks later. Below is the note I posted that night after finishing the bottle:

Fill was almost 3 inches below the cork, and there was a large amount of "dirt" on top of the cork, underneath the capsule. After decanting for sediment, the wine's center was a pale, rusty red that became orange towards the outside and clear at its edge. The nose was full of roasted meat, dried flowers, spice, and forest floor. Initially, the palate had savory flavors of dried fruit and spice in a light body that had a long, tangy finish that at moments seemed a little volatile. With 30 to 45 minutes of air, the flavors became richer, the body seemed more medium-weight, and the finish was without flaw.

Under any circumstances, the wine in the glass would have been wonderfully enjoyable to me. Given the appearance of the bottle, its unknown storage-history, its humble appellation, and its bottling by a negociant who was previously unknown to me, the wine in the glass was truly incredible.
Some of my most memorable bottles were also odd lot old Negociant Burgundies. I was given a couple cases of old Bordeaux and Burgundy that had been cellared perfectly for many years, and after the owner died, his relatives put the couple cases in a warm garage and all the corks popped. Had to (of course) drink them rather quickly, and the first thing I popped was a 1959 Pommard from the Calvet Negociant house that was absolutely superb. A 1955 Beychevelle was also superb (after smelling like gasoline for the first couple of hours).
ITB - The Yoerg Brewing Company

"What if I fall?" "Oh, but my darling, what if you fly?"

K. Tr@n
Posts: 103
Joined: July 14th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#83 Post by K. Tr@n » March 20th, 2020, 10:15 am

Overperforming wine has to be tied to price, right?
The cost to replace that bottle at the time of drinking should be the actual price and the price you think it should be based on taste should be your performance price. Most of the wines rarely exceed 1.0.

I find the cheaper the price, the higher chance it is overperforming. Anything under $40 has a higher chance performing significantly better than the price point and anything above $150 has almost nil chance overperforming.
First init. h @ n g

User avatar
Thomas Keim
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 11048
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 5:52 pm
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#84 Post by Thomas Keim » March 20th, 2020, 10:18 am

K. Tr@n wrote:
March 20th, 2020, 10:15 am
Overperforming wine has to be tied to price, right?
The cost to replace that bottle at the time of drinking should be the actual price and the price you think it should be based on taste should be your performance price. Most of the wines rarely exceed 1.0.

I find the cheaper the price, the higher chance it is overperforming. Anything under $40 has a higher chance performing significantly better than the price point and anything above $150 has almost nil chance overperforming.
That doesn't work for people who have been collecting for a while. Was that 1982 Pichon Lalande overperforming because it sold for $9.00 a bottle on futures?
ITB - The Yoerg Brewing Company

"What if I fall?" "Oh, but my darling, what if you fly?"

K. Tr@n
Posts: 103
Joined: July 14th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#85 Post by K. Tr@n » March 20th, 2020, 10:25 am

Thomas Keim wrote:
March 20th, 2020, 10:18 am
That doesn't work for people who have been collecting for a while. Was that 1982 Pichon Lalande overperforming because it sold for $9.00 a bottle on futures?
That's why I said it's the cost of the bottle replacement at time of drinking.
You cannot use aggressive couponing price or the Pichon Lalande that ¨fell off the truck¨ in the Sopranos either.
First init. h @ n g

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3886
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#86 Post by Wes Barton » March 20th, 2020, 11:13 am

K. Tr@n wrote:
March 20th, 2020, 10:15 am
Overperforming wine has to be tied to price, right?
The cost to replace that bottle at the time of drinking should be the actual price and the price you think it should be based on taste should be your performance price. Most of the wines rarely exceed 1.0.

I find the cheaper the price, the higher chance it is overperforming. Anything under $40 has a higher chance performing significantly better than the price point and anything above $150 has almost nil chance overperforming.
You sort of nail where this doesn't apply: most wines that are readily available and understood by the market.

This thread isn't just (yet another) "name some great QPRs". It's a singular "best" performance relative to expectation. Some unknown producer out of a bargain bin. A particular bottle that far exceeds other bottles of the same wine. A wine from a poor vintage that was not good for 3 decades, then came around to be glorious. (There's a few vintages where that's happened with at least several wines from the region.) A wine that was just mediocre or pretty good for years, then came together impressively.

My best example was picking up an '86 Ridge SCM Cab from a bargain bin. Seemed like a no-brainer, as that's my benchmark winery in my favorite region. Not long after, before I got around to opening the wine, Wine Spectator decided to put their ratings archive up on their website. This was somewhere in the 1999-2001 range. It was free, and the only such resource of ratings at the time. So, what had James Laube rated this? Why, 68 points! So, I opened it at my restaurant, expecting to just dump it and open something else. But, it was glorious, showing like an excellent Monte Bello at peak maturity.
ITB - Useless lackey

"I've acquired enough wine to seduce an elephant." - Jennifer Robin

K. Tr@n
Posts: 103
Joined: July 14th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#87 Post by K. Tr@n » March 20th, 2020, 11:23 am

But you can use some quantifiable metric to make a case, right? Best overperformance is nothing without some common ground or common metric.

Your example, if it's a dud at release, you can get it at time of drinking for relatively cheap. It performed like Monte Bello at $300 a bottle, so the ratio is something like $300/$30 = 10.0 for example.

My best performance in recent memory was the 2015 Pichon Baron. I got 6x for $110/pop. I drank one and it was like a $180-$200 wine. So my best performance is something like $180/$110 = 1.6+. Clearly my best performance doesn't compare to yours, but without a common metric, then best performance is meaningless in the case by case basis.
First init. h @ n g

Brian Glas
Posts: 218
Joined: April 25th, 2018, 8:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#88 Post by Brian Glas » March 20th, 2020, 11:31 am

I really enjoyed a 1998 Vin de Pays Des Collines Rhodaniennes Sotanum at an offline in Seattle last fall. Was far better than wines from higher AOC classifications.

Richard Albert
Posts: 769
Joined: November 16th, 2012, 2:49 pm
Location: Southernmost NorCal Wine Country

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#89 Post by Richard Albert » March 20th, 2020, 12:17 pm

I concur with the 1978 Gallo comments, I had two in the last couple of years from the Davis cellar, unexpected excellence.

From Europe, there is no 2015 Cerbaiona Brunello di Montalcinco as I mentioned previously. Due to extreme conflicts involved in the sale of the winery as renowned Diego Molinari retired, it ended up in a bottle of NV Rosso after having been blended with some leftover 2013. It was in the market last year and the year before. The label has a code in the very left lower corner which verifies these contents, "1/18" or "6/18" it's bottling dates.
For $30 per it is stunningly good, with dried cherry, rose and coffee.
ITB

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3886
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#90 Post by Wes Barton » March 20th, 2020, 2:48 pm

K. Tr@n wrote:
March 20th, 2020, 11:23 am
But you can use some quantifiable metric to make a case, right? Best overperformance is nothing without some common ground or common metric.

Your example, if it's a dud at release, you can get it at time of drinking for relatively cheap. It performed like Monte Bello at $300 a bottle, so the ratio is something like $300/$30 = 10.0 for example.

My best performance in recent memory was the 2015 Pichon Baron. I got 6x for $110/pop. I drank one and it was like a $180-$200 wine. So my best performance is something like $180/$110 = 1.6+. Clearly my best performance doesn't compare to yours, but without a common metric, then best performance is meaningless in the case by case basis.
No, the idea of a common metric isn't valid. I guess you mean that to be market valuation. But, "the market" is a broad over-view. My economic valuation of a wine does not equal yours. Our individual levels of enjoyment, preferences, fetishes, aversions, etc. are all over the place. There are very expensive wines I enjoy and feel fairly priced. There are others that seem a mockery of wine, unpleasant for me to drink, yet others happily pay for and drink them. There's no shortage of wines I enjoy, but find highly overpriced.....again, yet others happily pay for and enjoy. That's not common ground, it's the real world.

I can quantify my expected enjoyment, which I do all the time making purchasing decisions. But, it has nothing to do with market value. I can quantify my actual enjoyment, but that's independent of others' enjoyment. It's all subjective.

In your example, your individual expectation of enjoyment was based on market value. Your individual level of enjoyment was subjectively yours. But, what will your expected level of enjoyment be for your next bottle of the same wine be? More like a $180-200 wine, right? Won't that experience influence your expectation of how other vintages of Pichon Baron will perform for you? It may lead you to pay over market on an older vintage and still think it will over-perform what you paid.
ITB - Useless lackey

"I've acquired enough wine to seduce an elephant." - Jennifer Robin

User avatar
John Glas
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2229
Joined: January 14th, 2010, 9:54 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#91 Post by John Glas » March 20th, 2020, 6:38 pm

2008 Davenport Continuity

User avatar
Kris Patten
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5179
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 6:25 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#92 Post by Kris Patten » March 23rd, 2020, 7:08 am

Biggest surprise vs. expectations was a magnum of 1983 Chateau Ste. Michelle Cold Creek Cabernet in 2007. It was sublime aged claret.
ITB

User avatar
J B a s k a m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 846
Joined: April 28th, 2009, 10:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#93 Post by J B a s k a m » March 23rd, 2020, 12:56 pm

1996 Pol Roger Rose - Brought it to a board member's birthday get-together about 12+ years ago. It was magnificent. Had a few times since and great every time.
- John

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7384
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#94 Post by David Glasser » March 24th, 2020, 8:24 pm

K. Tr@n wrote:
March 20th, 2020, 11:23 am
But you can use some quantifiable metric to make a case, right? Best overperformance is nothing without some common ground or common metric.

Your example, if it's a dud at release, you can get it at time of drinking for relatively cheap. It performed like Monte Bello at $300 a bottle, so the ratio is something like $300/$30 = 10.0 for example.

My best performance in recent memory was the 2015 Pichon Baron. I got 6x for $110/pop. I drank one and it was like a $180-$200 wine. So my best performance is something like $180/$110 = 1.6+. Clearly my best performance doesn't compare to yours, but without a common metric, then best performance is meaningless in the case by case basis.
No one warned me there would be math.

User avatar
Michael O'Brien
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1109
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 8:27 am
Location: Plano, TX

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#95 Post by Michael O'Brien » March 24th, 2020, 9:16 pm

1945 Giacomo Borgogno & Figli Barolo Riserva in 2015.
PlanoWino

User avatar
M.Kaplan
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5071
Joined: April 18th, 2009, 9:10 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#96 Post by M.Kaplan » March 24th, 2020, 9:54 pm

Some time in the late ‘00s I brought a bottle of ‘82 La Tour Haut Brion to Eleven Madison Park. It smelled absolutely foul on opening. The sommelier said it would be fine but I didn’t really believe her, as it was the 5th or 6th bottle from a case and none of the previous bottles (or any since) smelled that way. 90 minutes later the stink had blown off and it was magnificent with the lavender duck.
---Mark

User avatar
Josh Najjar
Posts: 168
Joined: May 2nd, 2010, 5:25 am
Location: New York, NY

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#97 Post by Josh Najjar » March 28th, 2020, 3:47 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:
March 15th, 2020, 10:49 am
Two come to mind...the 1968 Heitz Pinot Chardonnay Lot Z-82...I know i know, I've mentioned this wine on numerous threads, but I really went into the wine just hoping it was drinkable...and it turned out to be probably the top three wine experiences of my life! The 1997 Vogue Amoureuses...was expecting a good wine, especially from the producer and vineyard, but not so much the vintage...and it turned out to be a bottle of PERFECTION!

Two wines I still dream about. [cheers.gif]


I split a bottle of the '97 Vogue - Amoureuses many years ago, and also thought it was stunning.
Being an off vintage, I never quite trusted my memory of how good the wine really was, but I'm very happy you posted these notes to substantiate my feelings !

[cheers.gif]

Herwig Janssen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 905
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 10:02 am

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#98 Post by Herwig Janssen » March 30th, 2020, 6:34 am

In the early nineties , my friends and I used to buy a wine from Australia : St Hugo Cabernet . Costed $ 7 /bottle and was delicious . We bought cases for everybody . I forgot why we stopped buying , quality decrease or price increase ? Maybe we got bored , I do not remember , but this was a great wine for no money .
Later , when we lived in Princeton NJ , we loved Beringer Cabernet Sauvignon ( not reserve ) before Beringer was bought by some big company . Awesome wine for a decent price , we drank tons of it .

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 23081
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Best overperforming wine you’ve ever had

#99 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 30th, 2020, 6:45 am

Yea Herwig, that Beringer Knights Valley in the early 1990s, especially the 1991, was something else! Was grabbing it for under $15, actually $12.99 sticks in my head. Don’t know if the winemaking or my palate changed, but I stopped buying in the latter 1990s.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”