Thoughts on Dave Phinney wines?

Got a couple bottles of 2016 GKG Cabernet from a mystery bottle purchase well below the going rate. http://www.gkgcellars.com/the-wines

Over the years I’ve seen VERY divided opinions about Phinney, from being over rated and over priced, to being incredible and top quality. I’ve only ever tried some his Locations from Italy and CA, all non-vintage and are the sub $20 end of the spectrum. I wasn’t impressed, but they weren’t bad. I’ve never had the original prisoner or any Orin swift stuff though so I’m curious to know what you folks think.

Anyone care to chime in about his higher end offerings?

He’s not a popular winemaker on this forum but makes generally crowd pleasing wines.

His wines are crap, all marketing, they should sell for a quarter of the price they do. But good for him for making a ton of money.

Now Dave Phinney the person is a great guy, pretty genuine.

When Prisoner was a selection of quality vineyards (Evangelho was one iirc) and Phinney was in control, it was a very good wine, just as Meiomi was a very solid Pinot when it was a true second label for Belle Glos and their single vineyard projects. Once they become a ‘brand’ and people don’t stop to question where this new fruit is coming from to take it from 6-8k cases to 80-100k (or whatever they’re at now), you become more of a celebrity chef than a winemaker managing the people that make your recipes for you. He’s become the Emiril Lagase of wine.

He’s not a popular winemaker on this forum but makes generally crowd pleasing wines.

Plus 1. Once you teach the fans of the wines about the tasting process and proper stemware, they quickly become less of a fan.

[quoteHis wines are crap, all marketing, they should sell for a quarter of the price they do. But good for him for making a ton of money.

Now Dave Phinney the person is a great guy, pretty genuine.][/quote]
Agree with the marketing. What I don’t get is how the reviewers are always giving these wines 90 plus point scores?

Agree with the marketing. What I don’t get is how the reviewers are always giving these wines 90 plus point scores?
[/quote]

So let me ask a couple of honest questions here:

1. Do people feel that the wines aren’t very good because of how many bottles are produced now?
2. Or is it because of ‘dubious’ vineyard sources?
3. Or perhaps it’s because of the ‘marketing’ that’s being employed?

I’m just trying to wrap my head around things here.

If it’s because the wines are not ‘typical’ of what one might expect with the varieties that are in them, there are plenty of other wines out there that fall under that description that are very well liked and get great scores.

Help me out here please . . .

Cheers

I’ve only had 2 of his wines. A recent vintage of 8 Years in the Desert, which my wife and I did not like (might have scored it around 79 points), although we’re not big Zin fans. I would politely decline that wine if it was offered to me. However, we recently had a Mercury Head that I was prepared to not like too much, but I was pleasantly impressed. I thought it was pretty great as it was big, substantive, and complex, and everyone agreed that it was better than the 2008 V Madrone Cabernet Sauvignon we had that same night. Is it worth the price? Probably not, but I did really enjoy it. I think I am in the minority on this board with this opinion.

Good winemaker, crap wines.

I don’t care about the source of the fruit, the marketing, or any of that. It’s simply his aesthetic. He’s shooting for a target I don’t want to hit.

He’s aiming for a juicy, sweet, product that appeals to the same people who adore sweet drinks like soda and those creamy things from Starbucks. I don’t drink those either, but the people concocting them understand their markets and they’re making money, so they’re not stupid. They’re just putting out products I don’t care for.

I thought that Phinney’s idea of doing different wines around the world was interesting - that’s what Rolland does too. Those guys don’t get financing and support because they’re going to do something new and different, they get it because they’ll bring their respective approaches and hopefully produce something with broad appeal.

I really like Beau Vigne about 10 years ago.
We tried the CA (not impressed) and the E (palatable) a few weeks ago.
I find the D66 to be an affront to all things decent.

In my experience he makes good wines - Mercury Head, Abstract, Papillon, Mannequin, are among those we’ve enjoyed in the past. Keep in mind that some of the wines he originated are no longer made by him (e.g. Prisoner), and with the Orin Swift acquisition perhaps he may have less involvement with those wines looking forward. Inevitably you may pay some degree of premium for the marketing aspect of it. And as with any winemaker you may or may not like his style. But fundamentally the wines he actually makes do have substance to them.

Sounds like a lot of modern, high priced Napa Cabs these days, no?!?!? And what Rolland is doing seems to be a lot of what happens in Napa these days, no?

Cheers.

Indeed!

(I don’t buy those either.)

But I would try anything from a guy like Steve Matthiasson. Different aesthetic.

How much were the GKG wines discounted?

This thread is a funny read and offers one take on the wines. When I got into wine, the Prisoner was still gaining traction and it was one of my first TNs. I’ve had a few good bottles of Pappilion over the years. The sauv blanc “Blank Stare” is actually pretty decent, although I can think of many I’d rather have. I stopped in the tasting room in St. Helena in 2017, and remember being sorely underwhelmed having recently tasted things like Realm, Myriad, Outpost, and Mending Wall, with that background, it’s a lot easier to spot them as confected. I haven’t purchased one in several years

Difficult to spend real money on wines with ridiculous sounding names.

So let me ask a couple of honest questions here:

1. Do people feel that the wines aren’t very good because of how many bottles are produced now?
2. Or is it because of ‘dubious’ vineyard sources?
3. Or perhaps it’s because of the ‘marketing’ that’s being employed?

I’m just trying to wrap my head around things here.

If it’s because the wines are not ‘typical’ of what one might expect with the varieties that are in them, there are plenty of other wines out there that fall under that description that are very well liked and get great scores.

Help me out here please . . .

Cheers

Larry the average wine drinker does not smell or swish their wine. The Phinney wines have a lot of sweetness which is why the average wine drinker likes them. When they move these wines around in their mouth they then find out all the flaws they have. These wines are the same reason Barefoot and other cheap brands are so widely sold in the US.

Lots of mentions of the marketing" of these wines- What is the marketing that people are referring too?

Lots of mentions of the marketing" of these wines- What is the marketing that people are referring too?

You forget how many people buy a wine based on the label. Also they have tastings all over the country and people love the RS in these wines.

They were $70 from a lastbottle mystery sale last week. I’m not disappointed with what I ended up with at all. Sounds like most people here agree that Phinney is a great winemaker, in some respects, when he is actually making the wines and not marketing/building one of the many brands he has been involved with. This is under 250 cases produced and sounded like a pet project so hopefully it ends up being good.