Ageability of Cali Pinot

Hi. I have been reading this forum for a while. A lot of times I see tasting notes of pinots from late 1990’s to early 2000’s and usually the descriptions are amazing saying that the wines are drinking late. I have started opening my wines recently from 2007-2009. These are high quality pinots like Kosta Browne, Dehlinger, etc… About 30% of the wine I ens up pouring down the sink, because it tastes so bad. I purchased the wine directly from the winery and it has been stored in offsite temp and humidity controlled storage. I just assumed that I held on to the bottles too long, but these great reviews of older bottles are confusing me.

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Kosta Browne is (was?) made in a more modern, ripe style of pinot that was meant for early drinking. The wines you are reading about that are great at 20-30 years old are likely made in an entirely different style.

On a positive note, for some reason, aged KB still gets a decent price on the secondary market…

I think the bottles were held long -IMO . I don’t think KB was designed/meant to be aged for 10+ years . Not saying it can’t hold up nor doesn’t need some time to come together-but the wine doesn’t need to aged .

Also , I find some people cellar Cali pinot too long and decant too long and serve the wine at temperatures too warm-which IMO makes the wines not show properly.

YMMV (first time using that term -I think).

Re Dehlinger: The 2007s notwithstanding as I wasn’t a fan, I’d expect the 2008s and 09s to be drinking very well now. These pinots can go 10+ years easily.

I’ve opened a number of late '90s/early’00s Dehlingers recently, all drinking fine. Holding some for longer, at least another 4-6 years on a conservative side based on those tastings. And my tasting group had a 2004 KB recently, in the usual blind setup we do (only blind or double blind, no exceptions), the wine showed really well.

It’s less about the grape and more about things like vineyard sources and wine making.

Cabernet is generally considered age worthy but so little of it these days even on the high end seems to need more than 10 years of age to me. Most of it is just not made in a style that requires age for it to be at it’s best. It’s made to show it’s exuberance when youngish. That doesn’t mean it won’t ‘hold’. It just means it won’t improve much.

Pinot is similar but has much more variety in terms of sources and wine making from California. It ‘can’ age but should a particular bottle of is the question. There are some fantastic Pinots that I think should be drank within three years of bottling. There are also some fantastic wines that I’m not sure if they will hit their peak at 20 years.

There is no one answer.

Aged KB are all over the place, running the gauntlet from excellent to horrific. Not one I’d bet on.

Mature Dehlinger are a good bet to be sound, enjoyable wines. Haven’t had any profound ones from the '00s, but the '91 Reserve a few years ago, from when Fred Scherrer was winemaker, was knock-your-socks-off good, and blew away some special high-end Burgundies at a friend’s bring-the-good-stuff b-day dinner. Recent vintages, under Eva, should be better bets.

The problem with that era was a lot of Johnny-come-lately winemakers and all the wineries getting buzz were pandering to a critic who likes big, uber-ripe wines and (claims he) doesn’t like aged wines (but rates great aged wines well - much higher than he did on release).

I just opened a Williams Selyem Peay vineyard from 2009. We’ve moved away from that style so take my comments accordingly. I’d say it wasn’t meant to be aged either, though perhaps the vintage played into that. Soft, no tannin, char and oak, light on acid. Lots of sweetish fruit. It’s not really what I like to drink. My wife hated it, but others at the table loved it. To each their own. I still have a few WS from 07 to 10 that I’ll roll the dice with when drinking with people that like that style.

I haven’t found that aging CA pinots helps that much. And not many hold up that long with the exception of Marcassin. I drink them whenever and really haven’t noticed a difference though I had a ‘08 Kistler cuvée Elizabeth last nite that was fabulous!!

Now drinking my 2010 Dehlinger Goldridges and they continue to be excellent. I was not a fan of the 2007’s with age. 2011 Peay Scallop Shelf is now excellent as well as the Sonoma Coast bottling.

Curious if you’re doing pop and pour or decanting? I’ve been buying some here and there at auction on the cheap (Martinelli, W-S, Olsen Ogden). Many of them are overly sweet and taste madeira-ized when they open. I dump them into the decanter and check back in 30-60 min and a good portion of them open up into something pleasant/interesting to drink. My favorite this year was a 2004 Brogan Summa, went through nearly a case of the OO’s from 2007 I bought for 5.50/bottle last year.

2007 Copain Kiser “En Bas” last night was still drinking young @ 13yrs with plenty of fruit, acid and tannin in reserve and no secondary flavors developing yet. Depends on what you’re storing.

This category is quite a mixed bag. Like others here, we’ve had varied results with aging these.
I would say that getting familiar with the styles of various producers is useful. Also, Cellartracker is your friend, and can give you some valuable intel.
Most importantly, and this is one of the pleasures of enjoying and living with wine, open these wines at various stages of aging and see what you think. Let your own palate be your guide, and enjoy seeing these wines evolve.

Some of old Caleras were able to age 30 years, particularly from the Jensen vineyard. A little hit and miss, but quite lovely if you found a good bottle.

I was very impressed with this recently.

This reminds me I need to go pull some bottles

I posted on a Top Chef dinner at KB in November that featured a range of KB wines, including 3 2008 wines and a 2011. The newer 2016’s to me clearly were more pleasurable than the wines with age on them. The aged wines were very good, but didn’t have that spark that I get from a younger Pinot. My strategy is to age new releases for 3-4 years, and generally find them in a good place at that point. There are exceptions (think Rhys and Littorai specifically).

I found Kutch Pinot Noir to be wonderfully age-worthy wines. His entry level Sonoma Coast drinks wonderfully at 5+ years. His big boys (Falstaff and McDougal Ranch) can go 10 years easily.

I originally ear-marked 5 years as the time to begin popping the Kutch Pinots but after a couple dinners with 8-10+ year old Kutch, I really think that is when his bigger wines come into their own.

In a current thread there is a tasting note on a 7 year old McDougal where they found it young and strong but probably needing more years:

Several years ago 1978 and 1980 Chalone Pinot Noirs stopped me in my tracks and inspired me to find, buy and hold older Pinots from better vintages in spite of the fact that in that era Pinot Noir was challenging most CA winemakers.

From the 55 degree Davis Cellar, all with fills within one inch of the capsule:
Just over a year ago, a 1978 Dehlinger Sonoma was stunning and offering vibrant: rose, cherry, sandlewood and spice for three+ hours. The cork was partially saturated and alcohol and it was 12.9% ABV
The 1978 Kalin Sonoma should be matched with tea smoked duck as per Terry Leighton. 13.9%
Counselor Fu on Cellar Tacker says the 1974 Hanzell Sonoma has years of life left, so I will let it sleep a bit longer. 13.9%
One I am not sure of and am very curious about is the 1968 BV “Special Burgundy”, very shortly its destiny will be fulfilled.

Marathoners, they are out there.