Are we seeing the end of the madness?

Not so long ago, Burgundy was seeing a seller’s market. Not just any seller’s market, but one that saw the likes of Rousseau Chambertin hit $3000 plus. It seemed they could charge pretty well what they liked, and still find buyers.

Today I got an e mail from Zachys with reductions on Rousseau. I have long ago sold all of mine, but I am pretty sure they will never again slip below $1000, and I will not buy, but I am hoping the second tier such as Trapet which has been on the rise, will also begin to decrease.

lol - hard no. i think the most you can hope for is that off vintages sell for full retail instead of some level of “crazy” market price. but actual decreases cannot happen.

I am not so sure about that. A lot of the top Burgundies were bought by speculators; not sure they can hold on to it forever, and almost certainly they don’t plan to drink it by the case. As I said, I am cautiously optimistic.

this is of course true, but unlike - say bordeaux - there just isn’t any size. no one is sitting on 100 cases of a single vintage of rousseau chambertin.

Livex shows a 9% drop over the last 12 months in their burgundy index, but that is a narrow measure.

For the Chinese wine collectors, Burgundy may have lost its corona…er, uh…halo.

Community price on that cdb is under 1k, auction is 1300, so a “sale” to 1700 doesn’t mean much. Similarly the sale price on 16 gevrey, for example, is still over auction value and double community value (which I assume is some sort of release price).

La Paulee has a DRC dinner coming up in a few weeks…Cost per person $9,250.00 and it is sold out. When there are people who can drop 10GR on a dinner and there is a waitlist, well draw your own conclusions. Last major correction in the market was the worldwide recession of 2008. Suppose if the economy really crashed again things will drop but who knows? If the climate shifts much more even Burgundy will not taste much like Burgundy anymore and then those older vintages might get even more valuable. Who wants to buy a whole string of 2003 Burgs?

I looked at La Paulee dinner. Not many tastings of that quality in any given year, and not at all surprised that it sold out. It gives people who want to taste wines like this a chance for the price of a single bottle of RC.

I think the people who have been buying in case quantities would be mostly a different audience. I am sure there is some overlap, but drinker as opposed to speculator, investors represent two totally different breeds.

The answer is a bit complicated, and not necessarily good news for those who buy the wines to drink them.

Starting this past fall, several things started to move dramatically. It started with Giacosa- in one prominent fall sale about half the lots went unsold and the ones that did sell stayed near or at reserve. Rousseau was next, and in the past 90 days it is happening with DRC. The drops have been relatively dramatic and have had some impact on the lower end of the range for those wineries. Like you Mark, I got out of the Rousseau game a long time ago, but in the past couple of months I have purchased several cases of recent vintage Rousseau GC, Ruchottes, Charmes and Clos de la Roche at very nice prices compared to how things were 6-12 months ago- and I plan to drink them. But I have not touched the Big 3- those are still beyond what I am willing to pay. Some of the cases I got at auction, and some from retailers who had been trying to get really high prices on release stock and had been sitting on the wines for quite a long time (in proper storage of course.)

A lot of it is a question of supply. Last spring prices got really insane, and so this fall we have been treated at auction to an embarrassing quantity of many top wines that are usually quite rare- even in an auction setting. It is a perfect demonstration of the fact there is a supply of wine at the very top which is being frequently traded at auction and in private sales in much the same manner as contemporary art actually.

But that world is very separate from our own. There are still a great many merchants around the world who take in these top wines at release and sell them at a normal markup. There are still waiting lists years long in many cases to get access to top burgundies in that manner. And the DRC of course has their private list which means many of the biggest collectors buy at prices that give them no reason to even look at the secondary marketplace.

So while the speculation market is in a bit of a lull, it is business as usual in the more traditional marketplace with normal retail markups, and I really do believe that if the secondary market evaporated tomorrow there would still be enough demand in more traditional venues at those lower prices to fully absorb the impact, and still there would be customers on waiting lists.

For practical purposes, I think 2017 could be a bit disruptive- generally very good scores from BH and JG even if the vintage itself does not have a 5 star perception, and also very good supplies for the first time in a while. That is going to put downward pressure on everything to some extent.

But I am already hearing tales of massive price increases for 2018- so we will be right back in it before too long.

Current buying strategy- go for the less-famed bottlings from the best houses in good to very good vintages at auction. 2014s are a particularly good target right now. It is a rare chance to get things at acceptable prices that many of us have avoided for a long time even though we want them in our cellars. But it is a temporary thing. There are just too many collectors and too few bottles of Burgundy out there these days for a substantial long-term rollback in pricing.

JMHO.

This sums up why the Burgundy madness won’t end. We can only hope it plateaus and that no new emerging economy’s upwardly mobile class develops an affinity for Burgundy.

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Excellent advice :

****Current buying strategy- go for the less-famed bottlings from the best houses in good to very good vintages at auction. 2014s are a particularly good target right now. It is a rare chance to get things at acceptable prices that many of us have avoided for a long time even though we want them in our cellars. ****

Funny reading this question on WB. We are the madness.

Who are the Big Three?

I assume he means the Rousseau Big 3 (Chambertin, Beze, Clos St Jacques)

I think the long term direction for fine wine prices is down, with the sole exception of a few trophy Burgundies such as the “big three” discussed above. We have seen a pretty big wine bubble over the last few years associated with rising asset prices; wine prices have inflated significantly in just 2-3 short years. Long term I don’t see those prices as sustainable. Baby boomers are aging out of wine and have accumulated significant cellars they are not going to drink all of, soon they will be selling in significant numbers (and in some cases already are). Then, the upcoming generation of drinkers is not as into the prestige fine wine labels as those of us who got involved in wine in the 90s - early 2000s with Parker. The perception is that they are stodgy and overpriced - just not fashionable. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there is the massive increase in supply of high quality wines driven by the improvement in winemaking technique globally (and perhaps to some degree the warming weather). This is true even in Burgundy because the quality of lower tier wines has increased incredibly, and there are so many up and coming producers exploring satellite regions. It is that much more true for Bordeaux and California where land is not a constraint.

It’s hard to predict “big three” prices because they are sustained by a small number of extremely wealthy collectors and exist in a different realm from the rest of the wine world. But the writing is on the wall for other segments of the market I think.

Correct. I have heard reference to the Big 4 more recently- assuming that includes Ruchottes now- but I always knew only of the Big 3.

Been on Instagram lately?

+1

Seen @clayfu.wine lately? :wink:

The only 2003s I bought were from Truchot. I have been shocked at how good these wines are. What are the experiences of others with 2003s?