What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

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Fred Davis
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What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#1 Post by Fred Davis » February 11th, 2020, 9:50 am

Interested in opinions on this and the reason you believe the wine is priced as it is as opposed to where you think it should be priced.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#2 Post by RichardFlack » February 11th, 2020, 10:26 am

Sherry.
Not trendy. Fortunately.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#3 Post by Sjmotta » February 11th, 2020, 10:30 am

Lafage Bastide Miraflors and Lafage Narassa, from the Roussillon region. Outrageous QPR. I’m routinely able to pick up on sale for $12-$14... when I first experienced these, I would have thought 3x-4x the ticket.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#4 Post by Howard Cooper » February 11th, 2020, 1:38 pm

Zilliken Rausch Kabinett 2015
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#5 Post by Ian S » February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm

Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#6 Post by Josh Grossman » February 11th, 2020, 2:28 pm

Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Loire in general is an undervalued region. I love many of the reds too. My best qpr was a case of 1991 Chateau Souverain Reserve at $14 a bottle at auction.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#7 Post by RichardFlack » February 11th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Or from say Mullineux in a South Africa.

[fixed typo]
Last edited by RichardFlack on February 11th, 2020, 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#8 Post by Eric Ifune » February 11th, 2020, 3:27 pm

Dao and Bairrada in Portugal.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#9 Post by Yao C » February 11th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Sauternes, especially mature stuff from the '80s, reaches highs for me that very little else can at the price
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#10 Post by Michael O'Brien » February 11th, 2020, 3:48 pm

Anything by Lopez de Heredia.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#11 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 11th, 2020, 4:03 pm

J.J.Prüm Rieslings (other than the auction wines)
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#12 Post by RyanC » February 11th, 2020, 4:11 pm

Fun topic. Because I can't choose just one, here are a few quick-hit thoughts:

1. My immediate reaction is that it's a close call between Alzinger Steinertal and Prager Wachstum Bodenstein. And Hirtzberger Singerriedel in the right vintage. These Austrians have the weight, complexity, ageworthiness, and balance of the world's grandest, most expensive white wines. And they're $50-75.

2. Aged German Riesling -- particularly 2001. For instance, in the last 12 months, I bought some 2001 Müller-Catoir Haardter Bürgergarten Riesling Spätlese for $45/bottle, and it is some of the best wine (of any region or color) I've had in years, trouncing wines at 10x (or more) the price. The 2001 Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen is likewise one of my favorite wines in years -- also $40-50/bottle. Same with the whole lineup of 2001 Prums.

3. Givry 1ers -- particularly Lumpp and Joblot

4. Sweet wines in general are silly cheap for the quality

5. Sherry FTW

6. Foillard Beaujolais are just perfect wines for may taste
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#13 Post by Lee Short » February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm

If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#14 Post by JLee » February 11th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
+1

As to the second question in the OP, it's priced like it is because it's Muscadet.
Last edited by JLee on February 11th, 2020, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#15 Post by Yao C » February 11th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
Wow, high praise. I'll have to ask them if they'll let me visit [cheers.gif]
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#16 Post by B. Buzzini » February 11th, 2020, 6:00 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:28 pm
Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Loire in general is an undervalued region. I love many of the reds too. My best qpr was a case of 1991 Chateau Souverain Reserve at $14 a bottle at auction.
Chateau Souverain making Loire reds? [snort.gif]

Btw...LOVE LOVE that wine! [worship.gif]
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#17 Post by Scott Brunson » February 11th, 2020, 6:08 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
good call
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#18 Post by B. Buzzini » February 11th, 2020, 6:08 pm

To answer the Q...I'd have to say....OLD VINE ZIN! Greatest "comfort food" type wine...tasty as all hell young...ages into fine claret-like...vineyard history for days! Cheap and obtainable too! [highfive.gif]
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#19 Post by GWalmsley » February 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm

I will share my opinion on a region instead a producer: Salta, Argentina. From extreme high altitudes, Salta produces some of the deepest wines in the world and may evolve for decades. Salta wines are very hard to find even in South America as the region has a very limited production.

The most underrated grape is Carmenere in my opinion. I love how it adds character and complexity to any wine. Bonus points for the amazing story behind the varietal.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#20 Post by Pat Martin » February 11th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
I was going to write precisely this.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#21 Post by Matt Latuchie » February 11th, 2020, 7:33 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
No surprise that I agree with Lee on this one.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#22 Post by Scott Watkins » February 11th, 2020, 8:16 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:08 pm
Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
good call
I will agree with this.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#23 Post by Fred Davis » February 11th, 2020, 10:03 pm

The Loire seems to be a recurring choice in this thread, which is a great choice. Also, I've not had Pepiere's, but will be sure to pick up a bottle now. Givry I'd second too, relative to Burgundy anyway, and add Domaine du Cellier aux Moines. I'll have to look into the other wines--have not had many sweet wines (yet!). Thanks for everyone's contribution!

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#24 Post by Michae1 P0wers » February 12th, 2020, 7:40 am

Hard to argue with Loire for the most undervalued region. So much quality and so few truly expensive or unattainable wines. Obviously that is a huge region, but notably each sub-region also qualifies under those criteria. Only Rougeard and maybe some franc de pied bottlings are very expensive or hard to find, or some producers with no/poor US distribution.

German riesling in general as well. You have a few more trophy bottles in that category, particularly GGs, TBAs, and BAs, but the amount of widely available and extremely inexpensive quality bottles is still so high.

Perhaps not the most underrated but I'm increasingly finding Sicily, Etna and Cerasoulo, offer a great deal of value relative to cost.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#25 Post by Michael Manix » February 12th, 2020, 8:07 am

In the marketplace right now: 2016 Chianti Classico Riserva in the $20-$30 range (Castellare, Felsina, Monsanto, etc..)

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#26 Post by Pat Martin » February 12th, 2020, 8:23 am

For red wine, hard to argue with chianti or Rosso di Montalcino. I’ve had many a $5-$10 chianti that were quite drinkable and food friendly.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#27 Post by Chris Seiber » February 12th, 2020, 8:28 am

While I agree Pepiere Clos des Briords is a great bargain at its price, I wonder how many of the people saying that would keep buying it if it were even $30.

Some that come to mind for me:

Kutch Sonoma Coast pinot $39 (now 15 years running at that price). Fruit, complexity, balance, ageworthiness at levels far above that price point.

Scherrer Old Mature Vines. If you buy by the case on futures, I think it's $25 a bottle. Elegant red fruited zin with a track record for improving with age.

Baudry and Joguet Chinon

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#28 Post by Andrew Dodd » February 12th, 2020, 9:10 am

Vintage Port

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#29 Post by Dennis Atick » February 12th, 2020, 9:32 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 4:03 pm
J.J.Prüm Rieslings (other than the auction wines)
[winner.gif]
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#30 Post by Jim Stewart » February 12th, 2020, 9:42 am

Gonna do some rambling . . .
-I'll agree that the Loire on the whole as a region is undervalued
-Although I am new to the grape, I think Riesling in many cases is undervalued/ underappreciated
-I'll agree with the Clos des Briords, and also say a solid basic muscadet is undervalued/underappreciated
-Montepulciano d'Abruzzo is pretty good for the $, whether at $10 or less (e.g. Fantini-Farnese ) or at $20+ (e.g. Marina Cvetic)
-Finally, inspired by the specificity of Howard's answer, I'll give you these two: 2017 Patricia Green Pinot Noir "Reserve" , 2017 Chateau Thivin Cote de Brouilly

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#31 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » February 13th, 2020, 2:16 pm

Underpriced wines are often underpriced because people don't like the style. Unfortunately this also means the odds are that you may not enjoy the style either, hence they may not be underpriced for you. E.g. I think Port, Sauternes, and Rioja are very underpriced given the quality and ageability of the wines, however I don't love the style of any of those three hence do not invest.

If you really like a style that is generally unpopular with others then you're in luck and can fill a cellar inexpensively with the very top producers of those wines.

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#32 Post by Joshua Kates » February 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm

I'd agree with Eric, and say Portugese wines generally are undervalued; many have genuine distinctiveness and complexity. I don't know them as well as some, but Mouchao and Redoma come to mind. Commando G in Spain, their entry level, too, is impressive. I'd also throw Sandlands into the mix. Pepiere is certainly not shabby; I'd throw Chidaine in there. Finally, southern Italy, Sicily, is hard to argue with in reds, anything Nerello Mascalese.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#33 Post by C Chen » February 13th, 2020, 4:04 pm

Dennis Atick wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 9:32 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 4:03 pm
J.J.Prüm Rieslings (other than the auction wines)
[winner.gif]
I also agree with this.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#34 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 13th, 2020, 10:21 pm

Matt Latuchie wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 7:33 pm
Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
No surprise that I agree with Lee on this one.
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#35 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » February 13th, 2020, 10:25 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 8:28 am
While I agree Pepiere Clos des Briords is a great bargain at its price, I wonder how many of the people saying that would keep buying it if it were even $30.

Some that come to mind for me:

Kutch Sonoma Coast pinot $39 (now 15 years running at that price). Fruit, complexity, balance, ageworthiness at levels far above that price point.

Scherrer Old Mature Vines. If you buy by the case on futures, I think it's $25 a bottle. Elegant red fruited zin with a track record for improving with age.

Baudry and Joguet Chinon

Thivin Cote de Brouilly
I would probably buy Pepiere Clos de Briords up to about $55/bottle. It’s a tremendous wine, regardless of the low price. Even at $55, it would still be my preference over many wines at higher prices.

Honestly, for many years the Dauvissat AOC Chablis could have been in the mix for this topic. Now it’s considerably more expensive and I still buy it when I can find it...Clos de Briords would be no different to me.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#36 Post by Mike Miller » February 13th, 2020, 11:03 pm

Hard to call out one wine. But if I had to,do so, I’d pick Domaine Aubert de Villaine Bourgogne Rouge. Three separate cuvées, but all excellent.

More generically, cru Beaujolais and Sauternes bury should be in he discussion

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#37 Post by geoffpm » February 14th, 2020, 6:30 am

Not a single Languedoc recommendation? Even with the tariffs, they are undervalued and underpriced !!!
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#38 Post by Chris Seiber » February 14th, 2020, 6:51 am

geoffpm wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 6:30 am
Not a single Languedoc recommendation? Even with the tariffs, they are undervalued and underpriced !!!
Even you didn’t make one.

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#39 Post by Hank Victor » February 14th, 2020, 9:09 am

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#40 Post by Doug Schulman » February 14th, 2020, 9:25 am

I can't argue with JJ Prum.

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 10:25 pm
I would probably buy Pepiere Clos de Briords up to about $55/bottle. It’s a tremendous wine, regardless of the low price. Even at $55, it would still be my preference over many wines at higher prices.
That surprises me. I think it's a nice value, but to me, not worth anywhere near that. I do wonder how many people saying Briords would pay considerably more for it if the price jumped.

For me, especially keeping that in mind, Chateau Musar Rouge deserves mention here. Very few wines can evolve into something so great and cost that little on release. And yes, I would pay significantly more per bottle and buy fewer if I had to. I've probably mentioned this in similar threads before, but it's nice to revisit the topic once in a while.

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#41 Post by Chris Seiber » February 14th, 2020, 9:59 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 9:25 am
For me, especially keeping that in mind, Chateau Musar Rouge deserves mention here. Very few wines can evolve into something so great and cost that little on release. And yes, I would pay significantly more per bottle and buy fewer if I had to. I've probably mentioned this in similar threads before, but it's nice to revisit the topic once in a while.
I thought of posting that, and I agree with the sentiment. I'm not sure I can think of another wine with as much distinctiveness, character, and evolutionary upside that you can buy for $40-50 at retail.

But it has its share of detractors, as well as bottle variation/quality issues, so there will be different opinions on it. Maybe that's what keeps the price in its current undervalued state.

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#42 Post by RyanC » February 14th, 2020, 10:03 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 9:25 am
I can't argue with JJ Prum.

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 10:25 pm
I would probably buy Pepiere Clos de Briords up to about $55/bottle. It’s a tremendous wine, regardless of the low price. Even at $55, it would still be my preference over many wines at higher prices.
That surprises me. I think it's a nice value, but to me, not worth anywhere near that. I do wonder how many people saying Briords would pay considerably more for it if the price jumped.

For me, especially keeping that in mind, Chateau Musar Rouge deserves mention here. Very few wines can evolve into something so great and cost that little on release. And yes, I would pay significantly more per bottle and buy fewer if I had to. I've probably mentioned this in similar threads before, but it's nice to revisit the topic once in a while.
Musar is a good call.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#43 Post by M.Kaplan » February 14th, 2020, 10:16 am

White: Assyrtiko from Santorini
Red: Roagna Rosso or Alto Piemonte Nebbiolo
Pink: Château Pradeaux Bandol Rosé
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#44 Post by Dan Kravitz » February 14th, 2020, 10:29 am

There has been a mention of Languedoc (Roussillon)... Early-on for Lafage.

I have a few dozen other Languedoc - Roussillon reccos that I have to prune drastically because I'm the importer, but Chapoutier's Bila Haut, many wines at many different price levels, belongs in the conversation. As does Puech Haut, also many different wines at many different price levels.

Lots of love for the Loire, but so far no specific mention of Savennieres, which is my first choice for most undervalued Appellation. I happen to like aged whites; nobody below a certain economic level can any longer call Chassagne, Puligny or Meursault undervalued and we all sadly know that they are no longer really in the category of ageworthy whites, so Savennieres it is... with a nod to Semillons and Semillon-based wines from Bordeaux, Australia and Argentina; maybe a few other places.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#45 Post by Chris Seiber » February 14th, 2020, 10:34 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 10:29 am
Lots of love for the Loire, but so far no specific mention of Savennieres, which is my first choice for most undervalued Appellation. I happen to like aged whites; nobody below a certain economic level can any longer call Chassagne, Puligny or Meursault undervalued and we all sadly know that they are no longer really in the category of ageworthy whites, so Savennieres it is... with a nod to Semillons and Semillon-based wines from Bordeaux, Australia and Argentina; maybe a few other places.

Dan Kravitz
I was quite surprised walking through Wine Exchange last week to see Baumard Savennieres Clos du Papillon for $49. That's just one wine at one store (albeit a store with generally very good pricing), but I had no idea the prices had gone up that much.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#46 Post by Carl Steefel » February 14th, 2020, 11:57 am

Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Was wondering why this is so undervalued. Maybe if more Loire critics come online (e.g., Vinous), this could change.

Just had the 2017 Huet Le Mont last night. Beautiful wine, rich, yet good acidity really brings out the complex herbal notes on the finish. I think Huet is back(?) at the top of their game now (2016 and 2017 both excellent)...

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#47 Post by Chris Seiber » February 14th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Carl Steefel wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:57 am
Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Was wondering why this is so undervalued. Maybe if more Loire critics come online (e.g., Vinous), this could change.

Just had the 2017 Huet Le Mont last night. Beautiful wine, rich, yet good acidity really brings out the complex herbal notes on the finish. I think Huet is back(?) at the top of their game now (2016 and 2017 both excellent)...
The price has gone up quite a bit on a percentage basis in the last 7-8 years. I think I was buying 2010 and 2011 Le Mont and Le Haut Lieu (both Sec) for mid to high $20s in the year after release. I think those run mid $30s to mid $40s at retail for current vintages.

That's not to disagree about them being good value - I think they still are. But the word is getting out.

I'd also note they had some uneven vintage results in recent years, plus some premox issues (I've had some premoxed bottles from 2009-2011 vintages in the last few years), so that might play a small role.

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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#48 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » February 14th, 2020, 1:06 pm

Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
Another vote for this. $15 a bottle for a wine I scored 92 points...can't beat it!

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#49 Post by Gabe Berk » February 14th, 2020, 1:27 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:08 pm
To answer the Q...I'd have to say....OLD VINE ZIN! Greatest "comfort food" type wine...tasty as all hell young...ages into fine claret-like...vineyard history for days! Cheap and obtainable too! [highfive.gif]
+1

Zinfandel goes well with a lot of food. Zinfandel from 100+ year old vines and garners 92-98 points respectively for $30-$40 a bottle seems like the ultimate undervalued wine in the world.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#50 Post by Jeff Vaughan » February 14th, 2020, 1:52 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 9:25 am
I can't argue with JJ Prum.

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 10:25 pm
I would probably buy Pepiere Clos de Briords up to about $55/bottle. It’s a tremendous wine, regardless of the low price. Even at $55, it would still be my preference over many wines at higher prices.
That surprises me. I think it's a nice value, but to me, not worth anywhere near that. I do wonder how many people saying Briords would pay considerably more for it if the price jumped.
I agree. It is on my list, too, but at that price I'd much rather be drinking Chablis or Riesling. My list also includes Loire Chenin Blanc (Chidaine, Foreau, etc.) and Chianti (Felsina, Monsanto, etc.) in the low to mid $20 range.
CT: outplaying

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