2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

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John Morris
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#51 Post by John Morris » August 1st, 2020, 6:16 pm

Andrew M wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 4:40 pm
Watched 8 cases of Brovia (excluding the normale) disappear in less than an hour. That was really something. I’ve bought too much other 2016 barolo so I only grabbed 4 bottles total, but with demand what it is I wonder if that was a mistake....
There's always more wine.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#52 Post by asnitow » August 1st, 2020, 6:26 pm

A Willi@mson wrote:
June 28th, 2020, 2:20 pm
Burlotto’s Monvigliero is another one - I own about 60 bottles plus dbl mags, of 06-12 all bought at $40/750ml. I can’t really understand the hype around these now - having drunk multiple bottles of the 13.

So: trust your own palate and stick to producers you know you like
Not like these wines need any further flogging, but I had a bottle of 2008 Burlotto Monvig the other night that was insanely good. Prob my wine of the year.
I agree prices have gotten crazy, esp with the recent Del Posto auction, but i certainly dont deny the inherent quality or the specialness of the site.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#53 Post by Tom Taylor » August 2nd, 2020, 5:22 am

Scored a few Brovia Rocche this morning at a fair price, very pleased. Ca Mia will be next.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#54 Post by F.Daner » August 2nd, 2020, 5:29 am

Anyone else back loading other vintages while 16 hype goes into over drive ? I took a break from buying in general from 16-19 and realized how little barolo I had left. I've seen some nice pricing on 13-15 while i search for 16's. Most recent purchases were 13 Elio Grasso Ginestra and 13 Cavallotto Bricco Boschi.

Cheers
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#55 Post by Andrew M » August 2nd, 2020, 6:02 am

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#56 Post by JohnP » August 2nd, 2020, 8:37 am

Just grabbed a few 16' Brovia Brea Vigne Ca'Mia from Winehouse in Los Angeles. Anyone know the difference between the Brea Vigne Ca'Mia and Ca'Mia?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#57 Post by Lorenzo F » August 2nd, 2020, 8:45 am

Luigi pira margheria 2016 is truly glorious and dirt cheap
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#58 Post by F.Daner » August 2nd, 2020, 10:05 am

All Star Wines has a good price on 16 Cavallotto and Vajra Albe- $66 and $30.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#59 Post by Martin Petersen » August 2nd, 2020, 10:41 am

Fully agree. I have tasted the entire current line-up with Gianpaolo three times, last time last Saturday. Everything he’s made in ‘16 is so good as is his Langhe Nebbiolo 2018. Margheria was my favorite but I bought them all.

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 8:45 am
Luigi pira margheria 2016 is truly glorious and dirt cheap

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#60 Post by Tom Taylor » August 2nd, 2020, 11:16 am

JohnP wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 8:37 am
Just grabbed a few 16' Brovia Brea Vigne Ca'Mia from Winehouse in Los Angeles. Anyone know the difference between the Brea Vigne Ca'Mia and Ca'Mia?
No difference, same wine. Brea is the official name of the vineyard. Ca Mia is a one HA monopole plot within the Brea Cru
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#61 Post by F.Daner » August 2nd, 2020, 1:52 pm

Thanks Martin and Lorenzo. New producer for me but the notes and pricing are very attractive. Saratoga Wine Exchange has the whole line up for those on the east coast.
Martin Petersen wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Fully agree. I have tasted the entire current line-up with Gianpaolo three times, last time last Saturday. Everything he’s made in ‘16 is so good as is his Langhe Nebbiolo 2018. Margheria was my favorite but I bought them all.

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 8:45 am
Luigi pira margheria 2016 is truly glorious and dirt cheap
Fred

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#62 Post by F.Daner » August 3rd, 2020, 6:11 pm

I'm seeing them both for $80-90 on east and west coast.
Sh@n A wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 1:07 pm
The explanation given to me why Grasso prices listed at $100, is they marked them up proactively not certain of tariff situation. But even if tariffs don't come, they will try to keep the price and sell the vintage (which AG came out today and did his part to highlight is a strong vintage).
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#63 Post by JFertitta » August 3rd, 2020, 6:15 pm

F.Daner wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 6:11 pm
I'm seeing them both for $80-90 on east and west coast.
Sh@n A wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 1:07 pm
The explanation given to me why Grasso prices listed at $100, is they marked them up proactively not certain of tariff situation. But even if tariffs don't come, they will try to keep the price and sell the vintage (which AG came out today and did his part to highlight is a strong vintage).
east coast here, got my grasso's for $75
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#64 Post by Dinesh Goyal » August 3rd, 2020, 6:53 pm

I can’t see any 2016 Brovia. Who’s offering it?

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#65 Post by AndreasB » August 4th, 2020, 12:19 am

F.Daner wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 5:29 am
Anyone else back loading other vintages while 16 hype goes into over drive ? I took a break from buying in general from 16-19 and realized how little barolo I had left. I've seen some nice pricing on 13-15 while i search for 16's. Most recent purchases were 13 Elio Grasso Ginestra and 13 Cavallotto Bricco Boschi.

Cheers
Good point. I've also back filled some 2013s, but do to limited storing capacity I try to be selective especially with regards to vintages. Recently we had a Scarzello Vigna Merenda (small plot within Sarmassa) 2011, that was really great, but still marked by the warm vintage in the sense that it didn't have the extra energy and structure, which I like in Barolo. With that said I'm still tempted to go for some Brovia Rocche 2015 and maybe some Vietti Crus from 2014.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#66 Post by Tom Taylor » August 4th, 2020, 3:04 am

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 6:53 pm
I can’t see any 2016 Brovia. Who’s offering it?

Have seen two so far, Wine Cellarage in NY, evaporated in hours. Wine House in LA, still some available
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#67 Post by Doug Schulman » August 4th, 2020, 6:17 am

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 6:53 pm
I can’t see any 2016 Brovia. Who’s offering it?
Most of the offers I see are usually much later in the year than this.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#68 Post by JohnP » August 5th, 2020, 8:58 am

Total Wine Concierge Sales sent out the offer below this morning-

2016 Sandrone Barolo Le Vigne
Regular In-store price $249.99
Concierge Pricing: $199.97/750 ml – 20% off
Regular In-store price $499.99/1.5L
Concierge Pricing: $399.97/1.5L – 20% off
Regular In-store price $999.99/3L
Concierge Pricing: $799.97/3L – 20% off
100 pts Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate
98 pts Wine Enthusiast
98 pts Vinous

2016 Sandrone Barolo Aleste
Regular In-store price $199.99
Concierge Pricing: $149.97/750 ml – 25% off
Regular In-store price $399.99/1.5L
Concierge Pricing: $299.97/1.5L – 25% off
Regular In-store price $799.99/3L
Concierge Pricing: $599.97/3L – 25% off
98 pts Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate
98 pts Vinous
97 pts Wine Enthusiast
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#69 Post by Andrew M » August 5th, 2020, 2:54 pm

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#70 Post by Tom Taylor » August 5th, 2020, 4:35 pm

Andrew M wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:54 pm
Crazy. LV was available online for $150 a week ago and it lasted awhile.


For 2016? Was it before the WA Piedmont issue came out? I can say this, wholesale is the same here in CT for 2016 as it was for 2015. Larner’s perfect score isn’t going to help. I know she’s not Galloni, but these day a perfect score from anyone moves the needle somewhat
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#71 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » August 5th, 2020, 9:29 pm

Wow, I picked up a mag of the 2015 Aleste in June for $247.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#72 Post by JohnP » August 5th, 2020, 9:33 pm

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:29 pm
Wow, I picked up a mag of the 2015 Aleste in June for $247.
That was pre-WA scores (late July). It's amazing that in the genre of Italian wine, the WA's ratings still have more of an effect over retail pricing than AG's reviews. At least that's what I've noticed.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#73 Post by AAgrawal » August 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm

Mostly out of a sense of morbid curiosity, would someone be able to tell me which 2016 barolo were scored highest in the recent WA scores? Not to inform my purchases... more to get a sense of whether wines I like will be more expensive now.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#74 Post by Tom Taylor » August 6th, 2020, 2:38 am

AAgrawal wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm
Mostly out of a sense of morbid curiosity, would someone be able to tell me which 2016 barolo were scored highest in the recent WA scores? Not to inform my purchases... more to get a sense of whether wines I like will be more expensive now.

Five perfect scores

Gaja Sperss
Sandrone Le Vigne
Bartolo Mascarello
Vietti Rocche
Burlotto Cannubi
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#75 Post by AAgrawal » August 6th, 2020, 6:27 am

Tom Taylor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 2:38 am
AAgrawal wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm
Mostly out of a sense of morbid curiosity, would someone be able to tell me which 2016 barolo were scored highest in the recent WA scores? Not to inform my purchases... more to get a sense of whether wines I like will be more expensive now.

Five perfect scores

Gaja Sperss
Sandrone Le Vigne
Bartolo Mascarello
Vietti Rocche
Burlotto Cannubi
Thanks! Seems interesting that different critics have rated different wines from the same producer higher than others. Like Antonio Galloni liked the Burlotto Monvigliero best instead of the Cannubi, and I think he liked the Vietti Ravera over the Rocche? Also, if I was reading it right, sounds like Wine Enthusiast (Kerin O'Keefe) liked the Burlotto Barolo more than one of the single vineyard bottlings. Seems like this rarely happens in other wine regions, where there is a clearer "top" bottling (or burgundy where there is a classification). My interpretation is that these are all probably excellent wines, and on any given day one may show better or worse than the other.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#76 Post by Andrew M » August 6th, 2020, 8:38 am

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#77 Post by AndreasB » August 6th, 2020, 10:32 am

Sandrone's Le Vigne should also be very good in 2014, which you can find for a very fair price. Same with Vietti Ravera and Rocche. I consider buying these instead of their expensive 2016 brothers. I haven't tried any of them, but Galloni rated them rather high. Anyone tried these recently?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#78 Post by F.Daner » August 7th, 2020, 3:40 am

I haven't but I've been doing this for other top rated wines and buying their 13,14 or 15's based on offers and what I'm finding. Recently picked up the 14 Massollino Riserva on pre-order from B-21 for $99. AG gave it very high praise in the 16 Barolo report.
AndreasB wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 10:32 am
Sandrone's Le Vigne should also be very good in 2014, which you can find for a very fair price. Same with Vietti Ravera and Rocche. I consider buying these instead of their expensive 2016 brothers. I haven't tried any of them, but Galloni rated them rather high. Anyone tried these recently?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#79 Post by Oliver McCrum » August 7th, 2020, 9:15 am

I think the best '14s are beautiful, elegant wines, which makes no sense given the weather. I'm cellaring a lot of 12s and 14s for nearer term drinking.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#80 Post by Michael_H » August 7th, 2020, 9:51 am

Oliver McCrum wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 9:15 am
I think the best '14s are beautiful, elegant wines, which makes no sense given the weather. I'm cellaring a lot of 12s and 14s for nearer term drinking.
+1 on '14s. This thread is about barolo, but actually find '14s in barbaresco to be really great in many cases. I think they were a bit more successful in this difficult vintage than Barolo due to missing some of the fall rains. Definitely not a vintage to write off based on what one would think would be insurmountable weather conditions.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#81 Post by Andrew Gold » August 7th, 2020, 10:09 am

I started buying barolo/barbaresco with the 2004 vintage, and I'll share the biggest mistake I feel like I made early on was only buying the more heralded vintages...

05, 07, 09 I largely skipped and regret it now. Those are all drinking better in my limited experience than 04/06/08/10.

If space and budget allows, I think there are very few vintages to skip outright, especially when building the collection from scratch.

Not preaching, take the above as you will.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#82 Post by Jeff Vaughan » August 7th, 2020, 10:25 am

I think that's good advice Andrew. If you stick to producers you know you like, the less heralded vintages are usually enjoyable, fun to compare against other vintages and often accessible earlier than the "best" vintages.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#83 Post by Lorenzo F » August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#84 Post by Tom Taylor » August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo

Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#85 Post by Lorenzo F » August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am

Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo

Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#86 Post by Tom Taylor » August 8th, 2020, 6:11 am

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo

Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .

I cannot comment on whether it is in the top 5 wines of the region as I have not had the wine and at the current pricing likely never will. I have had the Nebbiolo though and I will say it is very impressive. Unfortunately that wine also carries a bold price tag. There are too many other options in the region that cost far less. From the same Cru, I can buy 2.5-3 bottles of Franco Massolino’s Riserva for each bottle of Ester Canale.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#87 Post by Greg K » August 8th, 2020, 6:49 am

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo

Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .
The 2015 Monprivato is available at $150 fairly readily, and the 2016 won’t come close to $400. I don’t think $400 is an average price other than for a couple of bottlings, and there’s a real debate as to whether those wines are the top wines in Piedmont (other than Conterno).
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#88 Post by Lorenzo F » August 8th, 2020, 8:01 am

Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:49 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm



Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .
The 2015 Monprivato is available at $150 fairly readily, and the 2016 won’t come close to $400. I don’t think $400 is an average price other than for a couple of bottlings, and there’s a real debate as to whether those wines are the top wines in Piedmont (other than Conterno).
I m talking about CA Di morisso . So the top end of each producer .
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#89 Post by Greg K » August 8th, 2020, 8:10 am

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:01 am
Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:49 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am

Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .
The 2015 Monprivato is available at $150 fairly readily, and the 2016 won’t come close to $400. I don’t think $400 is an average price other than for a couple of bottlings, and there’s a real debate as to whether those wines are the top wines in Piedmont (other than Conterno).
I m talking about CA Di morisso . So the top end of each producer .
I don't think that's comparable to the Canale anyway.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#90 Post by Lorenzo F » August 8th, 2020, 8:26 am

Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:10 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:01 am
Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:49 am


The 2015 Monprivato is available at $150 fairly readily, and the 2016 won’t come close to $400. I don’t think $400 is an average price other than for a couple of bottlings, and there’s a real debate as to whether those wines are the top wines in Piedmont (other than Conterno).
I m talking about CA Di morisso . So the top end of each producer .
I don't think that's comparable to the Canale anyway.
Greg can you elaborate for me on this ? Btw the 2015 monprivato is a must buy in my opinion cos they didn't release CA Di morisso as it was too close in quality . 2016 goes without saying will be amongs the best CA Di morisso ever made .
Fioravanti

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#91 Post by Greg K » August 8th, 2020, 8:28 am

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:26 am
Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:10 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:01 am

I m talking about CA Di morisso . So the top end of each producer .
I don't think that's comparable to the Canale anyway.
Greg can you elaborate for me on this ? Btw the 2015 monprivato is a must buy in my opinion cos they didn't release CA Di morisso as it was too close in quality . 2016 goes without saying will be amongs the best CA Di morisso ever made .
I don't view the Ca'Morissio and the Canale Vigna Rionda as comparable bottlings; to me Canale has tried to position the Vigna Rionda that way, but it's not. Reasonable minds can disagree :)

As for the Monprivato being a must buy - it all depends on how much you like Monprivato!
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#92 Post by Lorenzo F » August 8th, 2020, 9:02 am

Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:28 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:26 am
Greg K wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 8:10 am


I don't think that's comparable to the Canale anyway.
Greg can you elaborate for me on this ? Btw the 2015 monprivato is a must buy in my opinion cos they didn't release CA Di morisso as it was too close in quality . 2016 goes without saying will be amongs the best CA Di morisso ever made .
I don't view the Ca'Morissio and the Canale Vigna Rionda as comparable bottlings; to me Canale has tried to position the Vigna Rionda that way, but it's not. Reasonable minds can disagree :)

As for the Monprivato being a must buy - it all depends on how much you like Monprivato!
Eheh fair enough
Fioravanti

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Joined: September 11th, 2018, 3:01 am

Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#93 Post by Dinesh Goyal » August 9th, 2020, 5:12 am

Had bought the following
Elio altare Arborina
Elio Altare Giarborina
Fratelli Alessandria Monvigliero
Grasso Chiniera
Grasso Casa Mate
Vietti Brunate
Brovia Ca’Mea
Brovia Rocche

Thanks to Greg for pointing me to Brovia source.

Thinking about buying 2015 Conterno Francia or Arione.

MikeF
Posts: 2
Joined: May 8th, 2020, 7:44 pm

Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#94 Post by MikeF » August 9th, 2020, 6:24 pm

Was able to get some Brovia Villero. Still on the lookout for other crus. 16 is daughter's birth year so deciding how big to go.

F.Daner
Posts: 2066
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 4:48 am
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#95 Post by F.Daner » August 10th, 2020, 10:53 am

If anyone is searching for Massolino B-21 outside of Tampa has the full line up. They have the cru designate wines on sale this week. They ship outside of Florida.

cheers
Fred

Paul Burak
Posts: 2
Joined: November 18th, 2010, 9:54 pm

Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#96 Post by Paul Burak » August 10th, 2020, 3:14 pm

Last fall, Alex Sanchez at Brovia let us taste all his 2016's. I thought the 2016 Brea and Rocche di Castigliano were outstanding.

Cogno and Vajra (Baudana) are also on a roll, although I'm not sure which crus I'd buy without tasting again.

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