Let's talk trocken

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Let's talk trocken

#1 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 10th, 2020, 5:53 pm

I have a dearth of dry German riesling in my collection, with the exception of a couple GGs and a good assortment of trocken wines from one producer (Martin Mullen). I'm interested in finding more trocken wines that offer similar pleasure and ability to develop complexity with age as GGs, but without the entry price point that seems to keep creeping higher with each vintage. What are you drinking?
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

User avatar
Vince T
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 533
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 12:25 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#2 Post by Vince T » February 10th, 2020, 10:23 pm

Trimbach CFE! 2008 just hitting its stride now.
T s 3 n g

J. Rock
Posts: 470
Joined: March 11th, 2019, 4:53 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#3 Post by J. Rock » February 10th, 2020, 10:48 pm

I don't recall seeing them mentioned on here, but when I want to spend less than a typical GG, I'm fan of Markus Molitor's white capsules, although, I'm not sure how they age. Does anyone else like these?
J o r d a n

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18347
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: Let's talk trocken

#4 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » February 11th, 2020, 12:07 am

I'll be watching this thread with interest; I've yet to have a non-GG German trocken that was, qualitatively, "up there" with the GGs. Granted, my experience is limited.
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

Gerhard P.
Posts: 4956
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 11:06 pm
Location: Graz/Austria

Re: Let's talk trocken

#5 Post by Gerhard P. » February 11th, 2020, 12:21 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 12:07 am
I'll be watching this thread with interest; I've yet to have a non-GG German trocken that was, qualitatively, "up there" with the GGs. Granted, my experience is limited.

You´ve not had any Austrian Riesling Samaragds and equivalents? (and don´t say they are not "up there to German GGs - that would be wrong).
That´s also a rec.....
Gerhard Pr@esent
composer / AT

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18347
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: Let's talk trocken

#6 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » February 11th, 2020, 12:23 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 12:21 am
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 12:07 am
I'll be watching this thread with interest; I've yet to have a non-GG German trocken that was, qualitatively, "up there" with the GGs. Granted, my experience is limited.

You´ve not had any Austrian Riesling Samaragds and equivalents? (and don´t say they are not "up there to German GGs - that would be wrong).
That´s also a rec.....
My comment was strictly re: German wines.
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Martin Zwick
Posts: 2474
Joined: July 3rd, 2009, 1:20 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Let's talk trocken

#7 Post by Martin Zwick » February 11th, 2020, 1:21 am

In this case you have to look for the Ortswein which cost around 15 Euro or cheaper. Every Top estate makes great Ortsweine, but not only Top estates, also the estates in the 2n or 2rd rang make great Riesling trocken in this 10-15 Euro price range. We have so many great also young winemakers who make fine Rieslings these days. Its such easy to find well-made wines.

For further recommendations I have to look in my notes and photo gallery. Stay tuned........
"the US had adopted an “amoral” foreign policy that “substitutes threats, fear and confusion for trust”.

Marie Yovanovitch, former US ambassador to Ukraine

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Let's talk trocken

#8 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 11th, 2020, 4:28 am

J. Rock wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 10:48 pm
I don't recall seeing them mentioned on here, but when I want to spend less than a typical GG, I'm fan of Markus Molitor's white capsules, although, I'm not sure how they age. Does anyone else like these?
I'm not as big a fan of Markus Molitor wines for this reason. When I tasted the 2016 lineup a couple years back, I got the impression that they were pleasurable for drinking early, but didn't get the sense that they would gain much complexity or age well.
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

User avatar
Otto Forsberg
Posts: 911
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 4:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Let's talk trocken

#9 Post by Otto Forsberg » February 11th, 2020, 4:30 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 12:07 am
I'll be watching this thread with interest; I've yet to have a non-GG German trocken that was, qualitatively, "up there" with the GGs. Granted, my experience is limited.
Baron von Knyphausen Royal Blue Auslese (well, it'sn not officially trocken, since it is 11,8 g/l in RS). Not a GG but more impressive than almost any of them.

Unfortunately only 339 bottles were made, so it might be hard to get your hands on 'em.

Any Thörle and Diel Trocken Rieslings above the entry level are consistently excellent. Dr. Bürklin-Wolf makes great non-GG stuff, but their Premier Cru wines tend to be priced at the same level than GG wines and their Grand Cru wines are well above most GG wines.

Wittmann and Peter Jakob Kühn tend to make solid dry Rieslings as well.

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 34779
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Let's talk trocken

#10 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 11th, 2020, 4:55 am

Producers/wines I am fond of for GG and GG-style wines that I have not seen mentioned above...

Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Rottland Hinterhaus is probably my favorite year after year. Way back in 2007 Leitz also released a Trocken Gold Kap Alte Reben from this site that was and continues to be epic!

von Winning has done some non-GG trockens (Paradiesgarten) that are great value.

Burklin-Wolf Altenberg

And yes, explore Austria. Reliably dry Riesling with (often) a little more body than most Germans.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Otto Forsberg
Posts: 911
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 4:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Let's talk trocken

#11 Post by Otto Forsberg » February 11th, 2020, 5:00 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 4:55 am
Producers/wines I am fond of for GG and GG-style wines that I have not seen mentioned above...

Burklin-Wolf Altenberg
I mentioned Bürklin-Wolf in the literally previous reply.

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 34779
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Let's talk trocken

#12 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 11th, 2020, 5:08 am

Sorry...I was already in the reply page when you posted...I took a long time to write (had to get coffee).

No need to get offended.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Otto Forsberg
Posts: 911
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 4:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Let's talk trocken

#13 Post by Otto Forsberg » February 11th, 2020, 5:21 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:08 am
Sorry...I was already in the reply page when you posted...I took a long time to write (had to get coffee).

No need to get offended.
That's why WB usually shows all the replies that have been posted between pressing buttons "reply" and "submit".

And I wasn't offended. I just like to point out when and where people are wrong. neener

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 34779
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Let's talk trocken

#14 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 11th, 2020, 5:42 am

Yeah...I ignore those "someone has already posted" notices.

Because I really don't care that much. ;)
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Let's talk trocken

#15 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 11th, 2020, 5:51 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 4:55 am
Producers/wines I am fond of for GG and GG-style wines that I have not seen mentioned above...

Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Rottland Hinterhaus is probably my favorite year after year. Way back in 2007 Leitz also released a Trocken Gold Kap Alte Reben from this site that was and continues to be epic!

von Winning has done some non-GG trockens (Paradiesgarten) that are great value.

Burklin-Wolf Altenberg

And yes, explore Austria. Reliably dry Riesling with (often) a little more body than most Germans.
Seems like the theme is to check Austria. I've had very limited experience, mostly with Prager Smaragd, which I liked though were pretty austere on release. Any vintages with some age on them that are drinking well now, and may still be found on the market?

I'll check out the Leitz, thanks for the tip!
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 34779
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Let's talk trocken

#16 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 11th, 2020, 5:55 am

I still see 2013s on the market from good Austrian producers (great vintage). No harm in trying young wines as well. Check out some Gruner Veltliner while you are at it. You might like it.

Hiedler is really good value in Austrian wine. Alzinger Rieslings are gorgeous. Lots of options. The Terry Theise catalog has good info about producers (from his portfolio) as well as vintages and styles.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Robert Dentice
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1952
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 11:40 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#17 Post by Robert Dentice » February 11th, 2020, 6:16 am

It is fun to watch you go down the Riesling Rabbit Hole!

I think what you are really asking is how can I find wines of similar quality to the top GGs (ie, Dönnhoff, Keller, Schafer-Fröhlich etc.) at lower prices?

I will offer some general strategies:

1.) Look outside the VDP - Weiser-Künstler, Koehler-Ruprecht and Martin Mullen who you know well are just three examples

2.) Austria - I started my dry Riesling obsession with Austria because at the time there was not as much good dry German wine in the U.S.. This would have been in early 2000s. Remarkably as I have seen the top GGs double, triple and go up even more the top Austrians have stayed at relatively the same prices. And some producers dialed things back a bit so they are not as over-the-top as the were in the past.

3.) RS - Don't get so hung up on the legal definition of Trocken. Keller's KR bottling is a GG with just a tad more sugar (11 grams) than is allowed in a GG but it is from Kirschspiel and is 1/4 the current going price of the GG

4.) Look for up and coming producers who are in the VDP that are not the rockstars or from areas not known for dry GGs - I have recently had two wines from the Württemberg area, an area not know for top dry GGs that were outstanding an especially for the price. One was by Jochen Beurer who in my opinion makes dry GGs that are in the same league as the top echelon producers. The other wine was the Dautel Steingrüben not yet at the same level as the Beurer wines but very good and young second generation winemaker is at the helm.

5.) Declassified GGs - In great years go long on Trocken wines from declassified GG fruit. 2018 Keller Von der Fels is a case book example - KP declassified more GG fruit than usual because he wanted to make the best GG's possible and also so more people could experience his wines in the more affordable higher production Von der Fels. It is easily a 10-15 year wine and approximately $35

There you go some of my secrets...
Last edited by Robert Dentice on February 11th, 2020, 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Let's talk trocken

#18 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 11th, 2020, 6:21 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:16 am
It is fun to watch you go down the Riesling Rabbit Hole!

I think what you are really asking is how can I find wines of similar quality to the top GGs (ie, Dönnhoff, Keller Schafer-Fröhlich etc.) at lower prices?

I will offer some general strategies:

1.) Look outside the VDP - Weiser-Künstler, Koehler-Ruprecht and Martin Mullen who you know well are just three examples

2.) Austria - I started my dry Riesling obsession with Austria because at the time there was not as much good dry German wine in the U.S.. This would have been in early 2000s. Remarkably as I have seen the top GGs double, triple and go up even more the top Austrians have stayed at relatively the same prices. And some producers dialed things back a big so they are not as over-the-top as the were in the past.

3.) RS - Don't get so hung up on the legal definition of Trocken. Keller's KR bottling is a GG with just a tad more sugar (11 grams) than is allowed in a GG but it is from Kirschspiel and is 1/4 the current going price of the GG

4.) Look for up and coming producers who are in the VDP that are not the rockstars or from areas not know for GG - I have recently had two wines from the Württemberg area, an area not know for top dry GGs that were outstanding an especially for the price. One was by Jochen Beurer who in my opinion makes dry GGs that are in the same league as the top echelon producers. The other wine was the Dautel Steingrüben not yet at the same level as the Beurer wines but very good and young second generation winemaker is at the helm.

5.) Declassified GGs - In great years go long on Trocken wines from declassified GG fruit. 2018 Keller Von der Fels is a case book example - KP declassified more GG fruit than usual because he wanted to make the best GG's possible and possible so more people could experience his wines in the more affordable higher production Von der Fels. It is easily a 10-15 year wine and approximately $35

There you go some of my secrets...
Yes it's quite the rabbit hole. And what I'm asking is exactly as you say. As always Robert, I appreciate the tips :)
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

User avatar
Eric Ifune
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3584
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 7:43 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#19 Post by Eric Ifune » February 11th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Opened a 1990 Burklin-Wolf Ruppertsberg Gaisbohl Spatlese Trocken a couple of days ago. Best Riesling I've had in a year.

User avatar
Kelly Walker
Posts: 1220
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#20 Post by Kelly Walker » February 11th, 2020, 4:20 pm

I have become a really big fan of what Von Winning has been offering at all levels.

Austria is my go to for truly trocken riesling. A different profile for sure but to my liking. Hertzberger is a perennial favorite among many others.
What Kevin Shin said.

User avatar
Martin Zwick
Posts: 2474
Joined: July 3rd, 2009, 1:20 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Let's talk trocken

#21 Post by Martin Zwick » February 12th, 2020, 12:15 am

I had yesterday a 2016 Grünhaus Alte Reben Reben for 16-17 Euro which has everything a Mosel Riesling should have. Drinking pleasure and this Mosel-Riesling typical fruit-acidity-play. BTW, its from Abtsberg. And perfect combo with Harissa Chicken.

12,5g RS, 8,8 acidity and 11,5%

IMG_0562.jpg
Last edited by Martin Zwick on February 12th, 2020, 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
"the US had adopted an “amoral” foreign policy that “substitutes threats, fear and confusion for trust”.

Marie Yovanovitch, former US ambassador to Ukraine

User avatar
dcornutt
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 10036
Joined: February 12th, 2009, 4:19 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#22 Post by dcornutt » February 12th, 2020, 1:03 am

The dry Pfalz wines are wonderful. Muller-Catoir is my favorite when I can find it. Haven't had too many Keller wines. I do love the GGs from Schafer-Froelich but a different price there.

I buy a few from Austria. Nicholaihof Riesling Steiner Hund is one of my favorites.
I love Rudi Pichler and Prager too.
DON Cornutt

"Before you eat or drink anything, carefully consider with whom you eat or drink rather than what you
eat or drink,because eating without a friend is the life of the lion or the wolf." Epicurius

User avatar
Martin Zwick
Posts: 2474
Joined: July 3rd, 2009, 1:20 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Let's talk trocken

#23 Post by Martin Zwick » February 12th, 2020, 1:50 am

Around 2 week ago I had a 2017 Schäfer-Fröhlich "Schiefergestein" for 15 Euro. Needed 2 years to open, but now it shows a brilliant QPR and everything you love regarding the Schäfer-Fröhlich Rieslings. Purity, strong minerality and vibrant acidity.

IMG_0563.jpg
Last edited by Martin Zwick on February 12th, 2020, 2:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
"the US had adopted an “amoral” foreign policy that “substitutes threats, fear and confusion for trust”.

Marie Yovanovitch, former US ambassador to Ukraine

User avatar
dcornutt
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 10036
Joined: February 12th, 2009, 4:19 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#24 Post by dcornutt » February 12th, 2020, 2:02 am

Thanks Martin!
DON Cornutt

"Before you eat or drink anything, carefully consider with whom you eat or drink rather than what you
eat or drink,because eating without a friend is the life of the lion or the wolf." Epicurius

User avatar
Martin Zwick
Posts: 2474
Joined: July 3rd, 2009, 1:20 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Let's talk trocken

#25 Post by Martin Zwick » February 12th, 2020, 3:02 am

Another one is 2018 P.J. Kühn "Jacobus" Riesling from the Rheingau region for 12 Euro.

IMG_0277.JPG
"the US had adopted an “amoral” foreign policy that “substitutes threats, fear and confusion for trust”.

Marie Yovanovitch, former US ambassador to Ukraine

User avatar
Martin Zwick
Posts: 2474
Joined: July 3rd, 2009, 1:20 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Let's talk trocken

#26 Post by Martin Zwick » February 12th, 2020, 3:46 am

AND "von Porphyr" by Wagner-Stempel is another good recommendation.
"the US had adopted an “amoral” foreign policy that “substitutes threats, fear and confusion for trust”.

Marie Yovanovitch, former US ambassador to Ukraine

R. Frankel
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#27 Post by R. Frankel » February 12th, 2020, 9:14 am

I too have fallen down this lovely rabbit hole, a little further down than you Brian, but lots of tasty learnings along the way.

Adding to Martin’s note, I really like a lot of the non-GG trocken wines from some of the better known names. In addition to Schäfer-Fröhlich, I’ve enjoyed Dönnhoff, Zilliken (Alte Reben is very common), MF Richter, Peter Lauer, Molitor, and Clemens Busch. Definitely can be a challenge to find the wines in the US so hunting likely required.

I’m not sure why Molitor gets a bad rap, I’ve had many excellent wines from this producer. Their bizarre and idiosyncratic labeling system I’m sure doesn’t help. Look for white capsule (dry) samples that have no stars (very inexpensive, entry level) or two stars (a bit more expensive but very tasty and age worthy in my experience). The 3 star wines are roughly GG equivalent.

Clemens Busch may be the most under the radar producer of this list, but their wines are always well made, distinctive, and age worthy. Highly recommended. Look for the “Vom Roten Schiefer” “Vom Blauen Schiefer” or “Vom Grauen Schiefer” Trockens. His straight “Trocken” is also quite good.
Rich Frankel

User avatar
Robert Dentice
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1952
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 11:40 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#28 Post by Robert Dentice » February 12th, 2020, 9:30 am

R. Frankel wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 9:14 am

I’m not sure why Molitor gets a bad rap, I’ve had many excellent wines from this producer. Their bizarre and idiosyncratic labeling system I’m sure doesn’t help. Look for white capsule (dry) samples that have no stars (very inexpensive, entry level) or two stars (a bit more expensive but very tasty and age worthy in my experience). The 3 star wines are roughly GG equivalent.
I don't know if I would call it a bad rap. I think his distribution is horrible, his wines are in none of the many shops I buy Riesling from. And he makes way too many wines! And then there is the capsule star rating system....

User avatar
Len Fox
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 144
Joined: August 10th, 2011, 9:00 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#29 Post by Len Fox » February 12th, 2020, 9:42 am

Clemens Busch may be the most under the radar producer of this list, but their wines are always well made, distinctive, and age worthy. Highly recommended.
In my very limited experience drinking Clemens Busch, a few bottles purchased on a recommendation from Chambers Street, found them to be excellent mineral driven wines.

J. Rock
Posts: 470
Joined: March 11th, 2019, 4:53 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#30 Post by J. Rock » February 12th, 2020, 10:57 am

Clemens Busch makes some great dry Rieslings and I've been able to snag some of their GGs for under $40!
J o r d a n

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Let's talk trocken

#31 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 13th, 2020, 7:40 am

Lots of good recommendations. I would add that if you keep an eye out to backfill Trockens from before the GG designation existed (in my view it was a marketing ploy that took off and reshaped the focus of the German wine market and its growers to some degree), you may luck out. Noted growers like Donnhoff, Muller-Catoir, Leitz, Becker, etc., have been making quality trocken for a long time. Cornelius Donnhoff told me years ago at a Rieslingfeier dinner that when GG arose, he and his father just changed the label on Trockens but that the winemaking hadn’t changed. (We can discuss whether that’s true still or the effect of changing vineyard priorities and global warming a different time.)

On Austrian recommendations I’ll add Hirsch, Hirtzberger (or was that said already?), Jamek. In Alsace, although the wines have varying degrees of RS, Boxler. No one in Alsace has made as consistently fine wines in my view as Boxler for the last couple decades.

User avatar
Claus Jeppesen
Posts: 1792
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 2:42 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#32 Post by Claus Jeppesen » February 13th, 2020, 8:36 am

This is the best Trocken I have tasted in a while

Claus

Riesling and Slate

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Let's talk trocken

#33 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 13th, 2020, 9:29 am

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 8:36 am
This is the best Trocken I have tasted in a while

And I just found a new IG follow [cheers.gif]
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

Barry L i p t o n
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2946
Joined: November 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#34 Post by Barry L i p t o n » February 14th, 2020, 7:52 am

Is there a similar thread for GGs? I just had a Donnhoff 2014 Felsenberg GG and I’m hooked.

Best years for these wines?
Are other producers at this amazing level that are not as lofty in price? (I saw the recommendations but I don’t want to get any extra RS.).

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 844
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Let's talk trocken

#35 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » February 14th, 2020, 8:17 am

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 7:52 am
Is there a similar thread for GGs? I just had a Donnhoff 2014 Felsenberg GG and I’m hooked.

Best years for these wines?
Are other producers at this amazing level that are not as lofty in price? (I saw the recommendations but I don’t want to get any extra RS.).
There was a recent thread about the 2017 GG's specifically, but not talking about QPR.
CT: InZinity

2019 WOTY:
1987 Dunn Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
1993 Edmunds St. John Zinfandel Amador County
2007 Martin Mullen Trarbacher Huhnerberg Riesling Auslese
2014 Cedric Bouchard La Boloree

Sarah Kirschbaum
Posts: 2720
Joined: September 20th, 2010, 11:53 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#36 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 14th, 2020, 8:26 am

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 7:52 am
Is there a similar thread for GGs? I just had a Donnhoff 2014 Felsenberg GG and I’m hooked.

Best years for these wines?
Are other producers at this amazing level that are not as lofty in price? (I saw the recommendations but I don’t want to get any extra RS.).
Barry - I think the Battenfeld-Spanier GGs are excellent QPR. Lyle Fass brings them in. If you don't want to pay for the likes of Keller, Emrich-Schonleber, Schafer Frohlich, (or Donnhoff, but those aren't my favorites) they are a good choice.

Barry L i p t o n
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2946
Joined: November 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#37 Post by Barry L i p t o n » February 14th, 2020, 12:36 pm

Any comments on the following:

2015 Laible Riesling Trocken "An der Kapelle"
2015 Caspari-Kappel Ellegrub Riesling Spatlese Trocken "Von Alte Reben"

The Von Alte Reben was compared to GG in terms of quality. Is it just as dry?

Thanks Sarah for those tips! Not just the QPR, as I don't buy much and don't need "drinkers", so am interested in the better ones as well.

Sarah Kirschbaum
Posts: 2720
Joined: September 20th, 2010, 11:53 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#38 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 14th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 12:36 pm
Any comments on the following:

2015 Laible Riesling Trocken "An der Kapelle"
2015 Caspari-Kappel Ellegrub Riesling Spatlese Trocken "Von Alte Reben"

The Von Alte Reben was compared to GG in terms of quality. Is it just as dry?

Thanks Sarah for those tips! Not just the QPR, as I don't buy much and don't need "drinkers", so am interested in the better ones as well.
To be clear, the Battenfeld-Spanier GGs are serious wines, not what I would call daily drinkers. They are just not as "lofty" in price, which I believe was the ask.

I love Laible's wines. I don't know the exact RS levels of the trocken you mention, but would guess it's at least as dry as many GGs. Remember GGs are not totally bone dry. People think of them as dry, and they definitely are, but usually (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong here) they have slightly more RS, which smoothes and supports the greater body.

Barry L i p t o n
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2946
Joined: November 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#39 Post by Barry L i p t o n » February 14th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Yes Sarah, I got what you meant. I was distinguishing my desires vs other posters. you gave me several names, which I am hunting down 😀

Thanks for the tip.

Sarah Kirschbaum
Posts: 2720
Joined: September 20th, 2010, 11:53 am

Re: Let's talk trocken

#40 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 14th, 2020, 2:31 pm

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Yes Sarah, I got what you meant. I was distinguishing my desires vs other posters. you gave me several names, which I am hunting down 😀

Thanks for the tip.
Ah! Gotcha. Happy hunting. At the level you are shopping, it's all going to be about personal taste, so you have a lot of fun in store figuring what's best for you! Within those I mentioned, one fun thing, if you can swing it, might be to compare Schafer-Frohlich's Monzinger Halenberg GG to Emrich-Schonleber's Halenberg GG. Two very different stunning expressions of the vineyard, and great year after year.

Barry L i p t o n
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2946
Joined: November 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Let's talk trocken

#41 Post by Barry L i p t o n » February 22nd, 2020, 11:03 am

Any comments on K.H. Schneider's Marbach GG 2018?

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”