TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

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Robert.A.Jr.
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TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#1 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 5th, 2020, 4:51 pm

I have to admit, despite loving this estate, this wine disappoints. Not that it is bad - it is not that at all - but that it just is not showing anywhere near the potential that I thought this wine should show with time.

I bought four of these on release, have not tried one since. I wonder whether they were meant to be consumed in their youth, like many of my other 2009s. The Thivin was stunning, and all gone.

On release, this wine had gorgeous fruit, snap and energy, plus a meaty, chewy quality that suggested age was necessary. That latter point is not surprising for Roilette’s Cuvee Tardive, incidentally. Sadly, it’s just not showing much. I have no ability to state whether it’s in a shut-down period or whether it has had its day. It’s not bad or going south, it just has little by way of excitement. Not much suggesting Fleurie, though it is definitely Beaujolais. Medium-bodied, red and dark fruits, little additional development. Tight finish with a bitter clip,

I’m sticking half the bottle away for tomorrow, perhaps a metamorphosis will occur.

Today. (87 pts.)

Gorgeous in picture, ha.

0C3C1CAE-B18D-4D23-B530-EAB8739FA269.jpeg
Last edited by Robert.A.Jr. on February 5th, 2020, 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#2 Post by Markus S » February 5th, 2020, 4:58 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 5th, 2020, 4:51 pm
... Nothing suggesting Fleurie, though it is definitely Beaujolais.
Coudert is kinda outlier Fleurie, so rather atypical of the appellation. I've had better luck with these than you, maybe 2-3 points higher, and have drunk down a mixed 8 bottles of this and the regular cuvee, with fairly consistent results with the exception of a bottle which wasn't showing much...not sure which cuvee it was though.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#3 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 5th, 2020, 5:00 pm

CT notes sorta all over the map.

I have to admit, while I like many of my wines with age, I still seem to prefer my Beaujolais and Kabinett baby fresh!

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#4 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » February 5th, 2020, 6:00 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 5th, 2020, 5:00 pm
CT notes sorta all over the map.

I have to admit, while I like many of my wines with age, I still seem to prefer my Beaujolais and Kabinett baby fresh!
Very traditional Bobby A, and nothing wrong with that. I have too admit, given the choice at Sunday's Super Bowl gathering, of passing over a 2002 Chiroubles. Though it was hardly fair when choice B was a 1999 Mount Eden Cab.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#5 Post by Jeremy Holmes » February 5th, 2020, 6:09 pm

A picture of the aromatic profile on the label?
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#6 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 5th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
February 5th, 2020, 6:09 pm
A picture of the aromatic profile on the label?
Sadly, no.

Look at my signature.

;)

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#7 Post by Nathan V. » February 6th, 2020, 5:45 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 5th, 2020, 5:00 pm
CT notes sorta all over the map.

I have to admit, while I like many of my wines with age, I still seem to prefer my Beaujolais and Kabinett baby fresh!
Yeah, but you can't really drink Coudert baby fresh. Or maybe infant fresh, like in the first 2 years after release or something. It goes into a shell and I find it hard to predict when it will come out. That being said, I had a great experience with this out of 3L back in October.

2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Fleurie (10/19/2019)
Starts out really juicy for a Coudert, which I attribute to the year. After an hour or so, the structure perks up only to calm down after another hour. It's cool to drink this from the 3L to watch it change over the course of several hours. I've found that Beaujolais is an excellent foil to NC whole hog barbecue. BTW, this is also awesome out of 750. (92 pts.)

Over the weekend, I opened magnums of 2005, 2010 and 2015. 2005 was corked, 2015 was shut down hard but 2010 was glorious. A recent 2010 Griffe was very difficult. Like I said, it's confusing.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#8 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 6th, 2020, 6:03 am

I’ve had the 2011 and 2012 Griffe as well, and neither showed as well as they did in that 2-year early window you note. So I am assuming at this stage hold for the 12-15+ Year window?

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#9 Post by marc d » February 6th, 2020, 6:50 am

The ‘18 Cuvee Tardive and even more so the ‘17 Griffe are both very drinkable and delicious at the moment. The ‘18 has tons of ripe fruit covering up the structure which may or may not include some greenish tannin. The ‘17 Griffe is a brilliant wine and worth the tariff if you can find it.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#10 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » February 6th, 2020, 7:07 am

I haven't had this wine in a year or so, but it seemed to be great then and certainly good for a few more years. Based on all your comments, it might be that you just don't like Beaujolais with age on them. The wines do change and if you are drinking them for bright, fresh fruit, you should ignore all the people who tell you to cellar them. But maybe it's just a matter of us disagreeing about this wine.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#11 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 6th, 2020, 7:12 am

I've been dubious about a number of 2009 Bojos, not unlike 2015. Some love them. Most strike me as a touch too ripe (i.e.; 2009 Marcel Lapierre). I won't be disappointed when the remaining mixed case in the cellar is consumed.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#12 Post by Doug Schulman » February 6th, 2020, 9:13 am

I suspect and hope that this will do well with more time.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#13 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 6th, 2020, 9:28 am

Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
February 6th, 2020, 7:07 am
I haven't had this wine in a year or so, but it seemed to be great then and certainly good for a few more years. Based on all your comments, it might be that you just don't like Beaujolais with age on them. The wines do change and if you are drinking them for bright, fresh fruit, you should ignore all the people who tell you to cellar them. But maybe it's just a matter of us disagreeing about this wine.
All good points, but on reflection it really did seem closed down for business, but that’s conjecture, as I have not had a Roilette CT 2009 since release. The nose, in particular, was not very revealing. The wine was not off, as in tainted or Brett, it was proper.

I saved half of the bottle, so in a handful of hours I will see again!

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#14 Post by P L owet » February 6th, 2020, 3:01 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 6th, 2020, 6:03 am
I’ve had the 2011 and 2012 Griffe as well, and neither showed as well as they did in that 2-year early window you note. So I am assuming at this stage hold for the 12-15+ Year window?
Robert,
Last week we drank a fabulous bottle of the 2010 Coudert Griffe du Marquis. Firing on all cylinders; so good that it got me thinking that I shouldn't wait to drink my last bottle. Vibrant and pure, with resolved tannins and lots of minerality. YMMV.

I have preferred 2010 and 2011 vs. 2009 for most cru beaujolais (although I don't drink them enough!). Given warm vintage, maybe 2009 Fleurie (Cuvee Tardive or Griffe) isn't a 10+ year wine like the more classic vintages?

I'm also learning that wines I like (and think are well-made) are not automatically long-agers. The 2011 Domaine du Vissoux/Pierre-Marie Chermette Fleurie Les Garants we had last month was solid, but seemed at the end of its drinking window. Not that there's anything wrong with that. [cheers.gif]
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#15 Post by Kirk.Grant » February 6th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
February 6th, 2020, 9:28 am
Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
February 6th, 2020, 7:07 am
I haven't had this wine in a year or so, but it seemed to be great then and certainly good for a few more years. Based on all your comments, it might be that you just don't like Beaujolais with age on them. The wines do change and if you are drinking them for bright, fresh fruit, you should ignore all the people who tell you to cellar them. But maybe it's just a matter of us disagreeing about this wine.
All good points, but on reflection it really did seem closed down for business, but that’s conjecture, as I have not had a Roilette CT 2009 since release. The nose, in particular, was not very revealing. The wine was not off, as in tainted or Brett, it was proper.

I saved half of the bottle, so in a handful of hours I will see again!
I was less impressed with the bottle I opened in 2017. To me it did feel like it was going through "growing pains" so my plan was to wait another 5-7 years before checking in on one of my two remaining bottles.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#16 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 6th, 2020, 3:41 pm

Good stuff, Peter.

I went through cases of the 2011 Vissoux, was an excellent vintage for them. I never thought those were agers. The Les Garants was really good.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#17 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 13th, 2020, 4:04 pm

Starting to enjoy (or cull) some 2009s:

2009 Vissoux Moulin a Vent = Typically love this producer but this particular wine was ripe and too high toned.
2009 JP Brun Terres Dorees Moulin a Vent = Maybe it's a M-a-V thing...but I normally love the wines. Ripe with reddish fruit that's a bit washed out. Bright and high toned to the edge of VA.
2009 Burgaud Morgon Cote du Py VV = Yum. Flirts with the vintage ripeness but dark Bojo fruit holds true with supportive minerality.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#18 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » February 14th, 2020, 7:37 am

Sparked by this thread, I served a bottle of the 2019 Coudert Cuvee at a dinner party last weekend. I'm not sure if it was that different from Robert's opening description and we all liked it better or if it was a better showing. It was certainly more forward on the nose at first and a little restrained in the glass (undecanted). Even that restraint pulled back with an hour in the glass. My guests were not wine geeks but were people who enjoyed wine. They all very much liked it (after the usual surprise by non geeks about serving an 11 year old Beaujolais).

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#19 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 14th, 2020, 10:40 am

I haven't followed the Clos de la Roillette every year, but apparently the 2018 normale got yuge points from Tanzer, and it is a thoroughly "Parkerized" wine - dark, plush, velvet/satin sheen, slick, almost sweet - it's like the used car salesman of Fleurie.

It's certainly a magnificent wine for the first day or two, but then it starts to die on Day 3 [which is always a troubling sign for me].

And it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the normales from twelve or fifteen years earlier.

Is it safe to assume that there was a changing of the guard?

Or did Coudert just throw in the towel and start making wines which would earn big points from the critics?

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#20 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 14th, 2020, 10:58 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 10:40 am
I haven't followed the Clos de la Roillette every year, but apparently the 2018 normale got yuge points from Tanzer, and it is a thoroughly "Parkerized" wine - dark, plush, velvet/satin sheen, slick, almost sweet - it's like the used car salesman of Fleurie.

It's certainly a magnificent wine for the first day or two, but then it starts to die on Day 3 [which is always a troubling sign for me].

And it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the normales from twelve or fifteen years earlier.

Is it safe to assume that there was a changing of the guard?

Or did Coudert just throw in the towel and start making wines which would earn big points from the critics?
Neither. Just a ripe year. I wasn’t a fan of the ‘18s. If you had tried the ‘16s and ‘17s, you might be less cynical....LOL.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#21 Post by Michae1 P0wers » February 14th, 2020, 11:04 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 10:58 am
Nathan Smyth wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 10:40 am
I haven't followed the Clos de la Roillette every year, but apparently the 2018 normale got yuge points from Tanzer, and it is a thoroughly "Parkerized" wine - dark, plush, velvet/satin sheen, slick, almost sweet - it's like the used car salesman of Fleurie.

It's certainly a magnificent wine for the first day or two, but then it starts to die on Day 3 [which is always a troubling sign for me].

And it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the normales from twelve or fifteen years earlier.

Is it safe to assume that there was a changing of the guard?

Or did Coudert just throw in the towel and start making wines which would earn big points from the critics?
Neither. Just a ripe year. I wasn’t a fan of the ‘18s. If you had tried the ‘16s and ‘17s, you might be less cynical....LOL.
This. It is a very ripe Roilette, but if that's Parkerized, then any wine from a warm vintage is now Parkerized. The '18s I've had are certainly bigger than my preference, but they are also better, fresher, and more pleasant than the 2015s.

Also, everybody has their own tasting preferences, but if a young Beaujolais is enjoyable through day two, that's plenty for my purposes. I'm certainly not docking points for it being tired on day three.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#22 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 14th, 2020, 11:05 am

The "Parkerized" comment is ridiculous. Maybe Robert Parker caused climate change!
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#23 Post by Markus S » February 14th, 2020, 11:14 am

Richard T r i m p i wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 4:04 pm
...
2009 JP Brun Terres Dorees Moulin a Vent = Maybe it's a M-a-V thing...but I normally love the wines. Ripe with reddish fruit that's a bit washed out. Bright and high toned to the edge of VA.
To me, Brun tends toward high-toned.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#24 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 14th, 2020, 12:01 pm

Markus S wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:14 am
Richard T r i m p i wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 4:04 pm
...
2009 JP Brun Terres Dorees Moulin a Vent = Maybe it's a M-a-V thing...but I normally love the wines. Ripe with reddish fruit that's a bit washed out. Bright and high toned to the edge of VA.
To me, Brun tends toward high-toned.
Bright acidity, yes. Mostly not as high toned as this 2009 MaV. I also tend to drink them young.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#25 Post by Nathan Smyth » February 14th, 2020, 12:20 pm

Nah, there's been a definite change in the winemaking style.

Maybe you guys didn't notice because they were boiling the frog slowly.

But for someone who spent more than a decade without Roilette, it's very obvious.

The mouthfeel & the [apparent] acidity & the synesthesia on the normale have been completely flipped inside out.
.
roilette_old-school_new-school.png
.
Or maybe some of y'all's palates have started making that final trip to the Glue Factory...
.
horse-meat-chart.png
.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#26 Post by Brian Glas » February 14th, 2020, 12:32 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:05 am
The "Parkerized" comment is ridiculous. Maybe Robert Parker caused climate change!
Maybe, but Nathan's comment about the used car salesmen is hilarious.
Nathan Smyth wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 10:40 am
it's like the used car salesman of Fleurie.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#27 Post by Nathan V. » February 14th, 2020, 12:38 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 12:20 pm
Nah, there's been a definite change in the winemaking style.
That is factually false. One could consider that from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
ITB-ish.
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#28 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 14th, 2020, 3:45 pm

2009 Thivin Cote du Brouilly: Savory, leathery nose with plums and dried cherries...more reminiscent of ripe Pinot. The fruit on the attack is subtle, almost washed out with roasted red fruit and a resinous mouthfeel. Slightly medicinal finish with unexpected warmth. Definitely not what I'm looking for in Cru Beaujolais. This and the 2009 MaVs remind me more of Cotes du Rhone than Beaujolais. These warmer vintages (2009 and 2015) just aren't my thing.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#29 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 14th, 2020, 3:48 pm

Nathan V. wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 12:38 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 12:20 pm
Nah, there's been a definite change in the winemaking style.
That is factually false. One could consider that from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
He’s putting Descartes before de horse!

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#30 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 20th, 2020, 2:42 pm

2009 Jean Foillard Morgon Cote du Py - Pinot like nose of black cherry and briar fruit with hints of earth and fresh herbs. Sappy attack with good acidity and fruit persistence. A bit resinous towards the finish with silty tannins and mild bitterness. Long finish...and some mild warmth. Drinking young with plenty of stuffing for aging. Considerably better than the Thivin.

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#31 Post by William Kelley » February 20th, 2020, 2:47 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:05 am
The "Parkerized" comment is ridiculous. Maybe Robert Parker caused climate change!
Actually my nickname (they are big on nicknames) in the Beaujolais, at least in some quarters, is "Parkerization" champagne.gif
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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#32 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » February 20th, 2020, 3:26 pm

William Kelley wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 2:47 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:05 am
The "Parkerized" comment is ridiculous. Maybe Robert Parker caused climate change!
Actually my nickname (they are big on nicknames) in the Beaujolais, at least in some quarters, is "Parkerization" champagne.gif
Because you went to the dark side!? [smileyvault-ban.gif] [berserker.gif]

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Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

#33 Post by Richard T r i m p i » February 20th, 2020, 3:29 pm

William Kelley wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 2:47 pm
Actually my nickname (they are big on nicknames) in the Beaujolais, at least in some quarters, is "Parkerization"
Don't try to save the world from it. That role's taken.

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