What would your classification of Loire reds be?

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Jayson Cohen
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#201 Post by Jayson Cohen » April 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm

Nick Ellis wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 6:08 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 6:06 pm
Nick, ask Jayson what the acronym of his sterling law firm is. It’s the best.
Jayson:

What is the acronym of your sterling firm? Asking for a friend.
MoFo

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#202 Post by Nick Ellis » April 17th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Badass!

Those guys are clearly not mild mannered small town attorneys.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#203 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 17th, 2020, 6:37 pm

Nick Ellis wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 6:08 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 6:06 pm
Nick, ask Jayson what the acronym of his sterling law firm is. It’s the best.
Jayson:

What is the acronym of your sterling firm? Asking for a friend.

MOFO

Dead serious. And they use that acronym. And have for years. Used it when I was out on San Fran back at the start of my career. Best. Name. Ever. For a law firm.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#204 Post by Greg Mitrakas » April 17th, 2020, 8:41 pm

So quick notes on 96 Joguet clos de la dioterie. If you have 'em time to do the deed. Tannins fully resolved, fruit is just a bit ripe but still lots of aromatics on swirl, not a trace of heaviness, good complexity, love the 12.5.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#205 Post by Julian Marshall » April 18th, 2020, 2:03 am

Matt Iverson wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 3:21 pm
Nick Ellis wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 2:42 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 2:17 pm
That’s pretty cool Nick, especially considering 2013 is not even a strong vintage in Loire. The 2014s by Thierry Germain are quite nice.
My thoughts exactly! I’m backfilling everything I can find from 2014-2018. BTW, it was your endorsement that turned me on to this producer (in addition to Baudry, Gonon and others), so thanks for everything, and feel free to invoice Jayson Cohen for your time.
I think the ripeness of 2015 and 2016 has been a boon to Loire reds finding a wider audience. And in fact I've also found that the lower-entry village wines from those two vintages have been knockouts, in much the same way that 2015 in Burgundy led to normally marginal sites making exceptional and compelling wines. When it comes to stocking up on recent vintages from the Loire, from my vantage point there is an incredible wealth of producers worth considering:

Richou
Villeneuve
Baumard
Alliet
Fillieatreau
Chateau Yvonne
Jacky Blot

...and plenty more, alongside the usual favorites. And some of the co-ops, like Les Vignerons de Saumur, made wines that are crazy good for their prices!
I couldn't agree more - the exceptional run of vintages since 2014 have produced wonderful entry-level wines, including from the co-ops (I've had several from the one you mention). The QPR is just stunning. And yes, there are so many to choose from.

I think there's another reason for Loire reds suddenly attracting more interest - tastes have changed. With very few exceptions, Loire reds are light years away from the sweet, even syrupy, oak-heavy, high alcohol stuff that was in vogue a few years ago. Most of the good producers are organic or bio-dynamic and their wines have fresh, crunchy fruit that is what people like nowadays, especially younger drinkers. Drinking a Roches-Neuves after just about any St.Emilion is a refreshing revelation.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#206 Post by eweininger » April 18th, 2020, 6:40 am

Matt Iverson wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 3:21 pm

....from my vantage point there is an incredible wealth of producers worth considering:

Richou
Villeneuve
Baumard
Alliet
Fillieatreau
Chateau Yvonne
Jacky Blot

...and plenty more, alongside the usual favorites. And some of the co-ops, like Les Vignerons de Saumur, made wines that are crazy good for their prices!
Richou is a producer I haven’t heard of before. Can you provide some info and say a little bit about general style, by any chance? What are the price points like? Worth searching for if not available locally? Always happy to learn about new producers.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#207 Post by Sean S y d n e y » April 18th, 2020, 8:13 am

This thread is making it very hard to avoid opening a 2014 Guiberteau Les Motelles that I bought recently from a local restaurant's wine list. I've had their (lovely & crystalline) Chenins before but never a red offering.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#208 Post by eweininger » April 18th, 2020, 8:26 am

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:13 am
This thread is making it very hard to avoid opening a 2014 Guiberteau Les Motelles that I bought recently from a local restaurant's wine list. I've had their (lovely & crystalline) Chenins before but never a red offering.
I've only had the base wines (white and red). The red (2015 or 2016), I have to say, just did not show well when I opened it, about 6 months ago. Came off as in your face and unintegrated. Better on day 2, but still not a great experience. So I'd respectfully counsel waiting.

That said, there are definitely people on here with more experience with Guiberteau than I've had, including the "cru" bottlings, so hopefully they'll chime in.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#209 Post by Sean S y d n e y » April 18th, 2020, 9:24 am

eweininger wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:26 am
I've only had the base wines (white and red). The red (2015 or 2016), I have to say, just did not show well when I opened it, about 6 months ago. Came off as in your face and unintegrated. Better on day 2, but still not a great experience. So I'd respectfully counsel waiting.

That said, there are definitely people on here with more experience with Guiberteau than I've had, including the "cru" bottlings, so hopefully they'll chime in.
Oh wow! I admittedly am no expert on aged Cab Franc - I've probably had literally fewer than 5 bottles with more than three or four years' age - but that's a bit disconcerting.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#210 Post by eweininger » April 18th, 2020, 9:37 am

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 9:24 am
Oh wow! I admittedly am no expert on aged Cab Franc - I've probably had literally fewer than 5 bottles with more than three or four years' age - but that's a bit disconcerting.
I think they're probably just fairly structured wines that need some bottle age to unwind and integrate. I wouldn't stress about it; I'd use it as an excuse to go shopping for some younger drinking bottles ;)
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#211 Post by Troy Stark » April 18th, 2020, 10:57 am

eweininger wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 6:08 pm
Based on a first look, I’d have to say Antoine Sanzay deserves a significant place in the rankings. The domaine bottling is pretty impressive.
Agreed. The 15 blew us away.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#212 Post by eweininger » April 18th, 2020, 11:09 am

Troy Stark wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:57 am
Agreed. The 15 blew us away.
Troy—have you tried the Les Poyeaux? They’re kind of pricey by Loire cf standards, but I might be inclined to put a couple more in the cellar based on the domaine wine.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#213 Post by Troy Stark » April 18th, 2020, 11:12 am

eweininger wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 11:09 am
Troy Stark wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:57 am
Agreed. The 15 blew us away.
Troy—have you tried the Les Poyeaux? They’re kind of pricey by Loire cf standards, but I might be inclined to put a couple more in the cellar based on the domaine wine.
I have 3 bottles on order from Envoyer. Last time I looked they had a few more on the website.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#214 Post by Jonathan Kalman » April 18th, 2020, 11:35 am

Troy Stark wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 10:29 am
So, we had our first experience with Baudry last night when we opened a bottle of 2015 Le Clos Guillot. Based on this experience, Baudry wouldn't make any sort of ranking in our house. The wine was undrinkable due to a heavy amount of dirty, smelly Brett - not the pleasant kind. We dumped it. We have one more bottle, but our general rule is that we don't buy from producers once we've encountered heavy Brett in a bottle. Just not a risk we're willing to take.

Decided to pop a bottle of Savage Grace Copeland Vineyard CF instead, which was lithe, perfumed, silky, and gorgeous. Not sure if any of you have tried it, but it's cheap and delicious Loire-style CF.
I had a bottle of the Le Clos Guillot on Friday. Zero Brett; medium weight and acid, on the palate wild raspberries, slightly sour cherries and all of these and green brambles on the nose. Like tasting a country lane in summer, thoroughly enjoyable. Not saying you are anything other than correct in your assessment of the bottle you drank, just that it ain't necessarily so.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#215 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Nice post, Jonathan. I think Guillot is awesome in this vintage. It’s normally my third fave of the three top cuvees in the Baudry line-up, but in 2015, it’s tops now for sure. Perhaps Croix Boisse edges it with time. And yes, like you note, any bottle can have brett.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#216 Post by Sean S y d n e y » April 18th, 2020, 2:20 pm

eweininger wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 9:37 am
I think they're probably just fairly structured wines that need some bottle age to unwind and integrate. I wouldn't stress about it; I'd use it as an excuse to go shopping for some younger drinking bottles ;)
Look what you (and this thread, again) made me do! From the same restaurant's list, along with a couple of Beaujolais.

2016 - my first Guion as well.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#217 Post by eweininger » April 18th, 2020, 5:08 pm

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:20 pm
Look what you (and this thread, again) made me do! From the same restaurant's list, along with a couple of Beaujolais.

2016 - my first Guion as well.
Good choice! I’d humbly suggest lots of air exposure before drinking.

Be sure to post a note.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#218 Post by Matt Iverson » April 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm

eweininger wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 6:40 am
Matt Iverson wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 3:21 pm

....from my vantage point there is an incredible wealth of producers worth considering:

Richou
Villeneuve
Baumard
Alliet
Fillieatreau
Chateau Yvonne
Jacky Blot

...and plenty more, alongside the usual favorites. And some of the co-ops, like Les Vignerons de Saumur, made wines that are crazy good for their prices!
Richou is a producer I haven’t heard of before. Can you provide some info and say a little bit about general style, by any chance? What are the price points like? Worth searching for if not available locally? Always happy to learn about new producers.
Domaine Richou is a great producer based in Anjou; here's a bit about them from the US importer's page: https://vintage59.com/our-portfolio-2/richou_anjou/ Wines are around $25-30 retail, and up from there for the top cuvees, but very reasonably priced for what they deliver.

Style-wise: for me, the wines combine the freshness you'd expect with a dense core, a meaty/fleshy mouth-filling flavor. No brett in any bottles I've had, all superbly clean in a way that allows the fruit to shine. Notably, they often have a good percentage of Cab Sauv blended with the Franc, a full 20% in their entry-level; of course plenty of other producers do this, but they do it in a way that really and truly clicks. They open slowly, and and become unexpectedly and delightfully full given a bit of oxygen.

Quick disclaimer, I'm perhaps biased as I sell their wine in my state...but then again, I only sell it because I think it rocks! I've seen their basic Anjou turn heads on beginners and long-time Loire fans alike.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#219 Post by Greg Mitrakas » April 18th, 2020, 7:37 pm

So in the interests of science opened a 2016 Baudry les clos Guillot. Savory and delicious. Needs many years obviously, but what a wonderful core of pure rich savory cabernet franc with a firm acid frame. Not an ounce of heaviness. Really distinctive and delicious. Happy Saturday.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#220 Post by eweininger » April 20th, 2020, 4:19 am

Troy Stark wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 11:12 am
eweininger wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 11:09 am
Troy Stark wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:57 am
Agreed. The 15 blew us away.
Troy—have you tried the Les Poyeaux? They’re kind of pricey by Loire cf standards, but I might be inclined to put a couple more in the cellar based on the domaine wine.
I have 3 bottles on order from Envoyer. Last time I looked they had a few more on the website.
After pondering that bottle of the domaine wine for another day, I just ordered a couple of the Poyeaux 2015. I’ve already got a bit of the 16. Really need to open one ASAP once they arrive. High hopes for these.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#221 Post by eweininger » April 20th, 2020, 4:35 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
January 23rd, 2020, 12:23 am
I added one of my own to the "5ths" after a bottle last night - Domaine de la Cotelleraie (St.Nicolas de Bourgueil): the best cuvée is L'Envolée, but the Le Vau Jaumier 2008 I tried was excellent too.
I opened my first Cotelleraie last night, the “village” bottling from 2018. It was lithe, clean, and incredibly fresh, bursting with fruit and savory herbs, and a joy to drink. You would never in a million years guess it was from 2018, given the reputation of the vintage. Under $20 Stateside. Amazing. I’d love to try theIr more structured cuvees, but I’d also love to buy more of this one.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#222 Post by Julian Marshall » April 20th, 2020, 6:13 am

eweininger wrote:
April 20th, 2020, 4:35 am
Julian Marshall wrote:
January 23rd, 2020, 12:23 am
I added one of my own to the "5ths" after a bottle last night - Domaine de la Cotelleraie (St.Nicolas de Bourgueil): the best cuvée is L'Envolée, but the Le Vau Jaumier 2008 I tried was excellent too.
I opened my first Cotelleraie last night, the “village” bottling from 2018. It was lithe, clean, and incredibly fresh, bursting with fruit and savory herbs, and a joy to drink. You would never in a million years guess it was from 2018, given the reputation of the vintage. Under $20 Stateside. Amazing. I’d love to try theIr more structured cuvees, but I’d also love to buy more of this one.
Glad you liked it - Matthieu Vallée's another rising star! There are so many. I ordered that 2018 over the weekend - pleased that I did - cheers!

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#223 Post by joz€f p1nxten » April 20th, 2020, 6:38 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 5:54 pm
joz€f p1nxten wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 2:48 pm
So I tried the baudry croix boissee 2015 today. No overt bret, sufficiently ripe for my palate. Beautiful nose with a touch of bell pepper, on the palate a bit more angular, rustic than the roches neuves from 15 and 16 I have tried. I'd consider this closer to Rougeard in style than roches neuves. Good wine, and happy I bought this blindly.
Needs time. Many stunners at 10+ years.
Fully understand, but I needed to check what I bought without trying (and I was recommended to open this as opposed to the Grezeaux 2014). I actually finished the bottle the day after, and the wine hadn't evolved a lot. Still a nice bottle and I look forward to following it.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#224 Post by Troy Stark » April 20th, 2020, 8:51 am

I'm happy to see so many reports of people opening Baudry and not getting any Brett as it suggests that our "bad bottle" was a one off and the other one will be good, if not great. Fingers crossed.
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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#225 Post by Howard Cooper » April 23rd, 2020, 4:31 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 4:51 am
Julian Marshall wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 4:37 am
Clau de Nell - that's another interesting idea. Never tried it yet and perhaps one would need to see how the wines will be post-Anne Leflaive.

I bought a bottle of this to try. I was going to drink it young to see if I wanted to buy more. But, when Anne Leflaive died, I decided to hold the wine to maturity (whenever that is) because it became (at least for me) more of a treasure. So, I have not tasted this yet.
Drank this tonight (a 2012). Very nice richness and balance. Very enjoyable to drink but not a great deal of complexity. Good wine for my wife and me for a Thursday night at home - of course, these days, all nights are my wife and me at home.
Howard

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#226 Post by Julian Marshall » April 24th, 2020, 7:02 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 4:31 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 4:51 am
Julian Marshall wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 4:37 am
Clau de Nell - that's another interesting idea. Never tried it yet and perhaps one would need to see how the wines will be post-Anne Leflaive.

I bought a bottle of this to try. I was going to drink it young to see if I wanted to buy more. But, when Anne Leflaive died, I decided to hold the wine to maturity (whenever that is) because it became (at least for me) more of a treasure. So, I have not tasted this yet.
Drank this tonight (a 2012). Very nice richness and balance. Very enjoyable to drink but not a great deal of complexity. Good wine for my wife and me for a Thursday night at home - of course, these days, all nights are my wife and me at home.
Glad you liked it - I bought a couple of 14s this week out of curiosity.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#227 Post by Howard Cooper » April 24th, 2020, 7:11 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
April 24th, 2020, 7:02 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 4:31 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 4:51 am


I bought a bottle of this to try. I was going to drink it young to see if I wanted to buy more. But, when Anne Leflaive died, I decided to hold the wine to maturity (whenever that is) because it became (at least for me) more of a treasure. So, I have not tasted this yet.
Drank this tonight (a 2012). Very nice richness and balance. Very enjoyable to drink but not a great deal of complexity. Good wine for my wife and me for a Thursday night at home - of course, these days, all nights are my wife and me at home.
Glad you liked it - I bought a couple of 14s this week out of curiosity.

Please report back after you have opened a bottle. I am esp. interested in the following:

I am not an expert on Loire vintages. Isn't 2014 a much better vintage than 2012?

Ann Claude Leflaive died in 2015. I wonder what this meant for vintages for 2014 on?
Howard

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#228 Post by Julian Marshall » April 25th, 2020, 3:41 am

I'll be sure to report back, Howard. 2014 is certainly better than 2012 in general, but whether or not the Clau de Nell 2014 is better I don't know. Chris Kissack rates the 2014 at the same level as the 2012 - 16/20.
Not knowing much about the estate, I just read Chris's profile of it. Anne-Claude Leflaive does not appear to have been too involved in the day-to-day running, so I should not imagine that her sadly premature death changed much: the biodynamic principles have been maintained.
Anyway, it's a wine I'm keen to try.
.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#229 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 25th, 2020, 3:58 am

Howard I think 2014 is a fantastic, classic vintage. I think Chris prefers slightly riper vintages, which is fine. It is definitely better than 2012.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#230 Post by Howard Cooper » April 25th, 2020, 5:04 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 3:58 am
Howard I think 2014 is a fantastic, classic vintage. I think Chris prefers slightly riper vintages, which is fine. It is definitely better than 2012.
Thanks Julian and Robert. I don't have that much Loire Reds but the vintage I have the most from is 2009, followed by 2010 and 2014 (tied for second).
Howard

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#231 Post by Russell Faulkner » April 25th, 2020, 5:27 am

No mention of L'Austral?

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#232 Post by Richard T r i m p i » April 25th, 2020, 5:28 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 3:41 am
I'll be sure to report back, Howard. 2014 is certainly better than 2012 in general, but whether or not the Clau de Nell 2014 is better I don't know. Chris Kissack rates the 2014 at the same level as the 2012 - 16/20.
Not knowing much about the estate, I just read Chris's profile of it. Anne-Claude Leflaive does not appear to have been too involved in the day-to-day running, so I should not imagine that her sadly premature death changed much: the biodynamic principles have been maintained.
Anyway, it's a wine I'm keen to try.
.
I tried a Clau de Nell Grolleau several years ago and thought it was interesting, but not worth revisiting. All of their prices strike me as high (not compared to Rougeard) with much better value offered by a dozen+ producers already listed in this thread.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#233 Post by Julian Marshall » April 25th, 2020, 5:44 am

Thanks Richard, good to know.

Russell- I've heard of l'Austral, which I know has a rising reputation, with lots of younger fans - have you tried any?

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#234 Post by Russell Faulkner » April 25th, 2020, 6:02 am

Julian, three bottles just arrived. I’ll report back.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#235 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 25th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Crush NYC just offered:

The Chambolle of the Loire: 2018 Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Clos de l'Echelier

$60

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#236 Post by eweininger » April 25th, 2020, 5:35 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Crush NYC just offered:

The Chambolle of the Loire: 2018 Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Clos de l'Echelier

$60
Chambolle aside, how is this cuvée? I opened a young-ish one a while back, but just felt I couldn’t see through the structure very clearly.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#237 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 25th, 2020, 5:38 pm

I’ve had the 12 and 13. It’s quite good, not great, but ultimately hard to justify the price. I highlighted it as someone had mentioned on this thread, or perhaps another, that Kissack had rated Germain and Joguet 2018s quite highly.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#238 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » April 25th, 2020, 6:51 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 5:38 pm
I’ve had the 12 and 13. It’s quite good, not great, but ultimately hard to justify the price. I highlighted it as someone had mentioned on this thread, or perhaps another, that Kissack had rated Germain and Joguet 2018s quite highly.
Is it worth opening one of the 2018 Roches Neuves offerings, the pied Franc or Memories? I have more of the Pied Franc.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#239 Post by eweininger » April 25th, 2020, 6:53 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 5:38 pm
I’ve had the 12 and 13. It’s quite good, not great, but ultimately hard to justify the price. I highlighted it as someone had mentioned on this thread, or perhaps another, that Kissack had rated Germain and Joguet 2018s quite highly.
That’s helpful, thanks. Have my eyes peeled for the old vine fdp.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#240 Post by Julian Marshall » April 27th, 2020, 3:04 am

I've got bad news - here's yet another excellent wine you really should all try:

Frédéric Mabileau - L'Eclipse - Saint Nicolas de Bourgueil 2010 and 2014

I included this producer in our little classification on the strength of his Coutures cuvée, which I had been impressed by, but I had never tried the top wine, L'Eclipse. I remember Elliot mentioned it several pages ago. He only produces it in good years - these are the two most recent. I opened them together last night, wanting to see the difference.

2010 - brambly and quite yeasty nose, with a broad, rich attack of blackberry, a hint of oak and then a touch of forest fruits, before a crisp, elegant finish. The fruit is a little overripe for my taste, but the crispness of the finish ensures that it doesn't go overboard. As time went on, so the wine broadened and deepened, but without losing the elegance.

2014 - the nose is more floral, more fresh, more pure, with gently ripe notes of redder fruit. Quite easy to drink already, with again fresher fruit than the 2010, but less intense and less rich. Supremely elegant and refined, so even if it gained in weight during the evening, it never reached the depth of the 2010. There are some light tannins, but these are subtle, velvety and unobtrusive, giving the wine a backbone but not hitting you over the head.

They're both excellent and it was hard to choose which I preferred - the 2010 impressed compared to the 2014, but the latter had more charm. They were both like a cross between a top Yannick Amirault and a top Joguet. I immediately ordered some more 2014, which I would say is ideal if you are looking for purity of fruit without a hint of green, funk or brett. Much as I enjoyed the Clos de L'Echo 2014 recently, this is much better.

Both were aged in new demi-muid barrels, so the quite large 600 liter ones. The 2010 spent 22 months in barrel, the 2014 was aged for 18 months, according to the bottles. I noticed some oak tasting the 2010, but none in the 2014.

Anyway, highly recommended and for the quality, good value - 25€.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#241 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 5:26 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Crush NYC just offered:

The Chambolle of the Loire: 2018 Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Clos de l'Echelier

$60
The Chambolle of the Loire????????????? Why not just get the Chambolle of Chambolle if you want something like Chambolle?
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#242 Post by eweininger » April 27th, 2020, 5:46 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 3:04 am
I've got bad news - here's yet another excellent wine you really should all try:

Frédéric Mabileau - L'Eclipse - Saint Nicolas de Bourgueil 2010 and 2014
Thanks, Julian. These sound very solid. Unfortunately, they don’t seem to be readily available here at all. I stumbled onto my meager two bottles by luck, quite a while ago. In any event, my sense is that there’s no reason to keep sitting on them, so I’ll report back soon.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#243 Post by Julian Marshall » April 27th, 2020, 5:56 am

I was surprised to find the 2014 still available. They tend to be sought after at auction, which to be honest is what brought L'Eclipse to my attention in the first place - I was curious to see why someone would want it so badly - then I got lucky with a lone bottle of 2010 where I was unopposed. I don't know what your vintages are, but on the basis of last night's, they will improve a lot with further cellaring.

BTW - on the subject of weird Covid 19 auction action, there are four bottles of Alliet Coteau de Noiré on sale her, with current bids at 50 and...72€ a bottle before buyer's premium...totally mad.

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#244 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 27th, 2020, 6:08 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 5:26 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Crush NYC just offered:

The Chambolle of the Loire: 2018 Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Clos de l'Echelier

$60
The Chambolle of the Loire????????????? Why not just get the Chambolle of Chambolle if you want something like Chambolle?

Because that’s a Burg, meh. ;)

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#245 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 6:23 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 6:08 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 5:26 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Crush NYC just offered:

The Chambolle of the Loire: 2018 Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Clos de l'Echelier

$60
The Chambolle of the Loire????????????? Why not just get the Chambolle of Chambolle if you want something like Chambolle?

Because that’s a Burg, meh. ;)
If you don't like Burgundy, isn't calling a wine the Chambolle of the Loire saying that the wine is MEH. [scratch.gif]
Howard

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#246 Post by joz€f p1nxten » April 27th, 2020, 7:09 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 25th, 2020, 5:38 pm
I’ve had the 12 and 13. It’s quite good, not great, but ultimately hard to justify the price. I highlighted it as someone had mentioned on this thread, or perhaps another, that Kissack had rated Germain and Joguet 2018s quite highly.
I didn't bite on Germain 2018s yet, as these are not that difficult to buy + I am always a bit confused by the pricing which seems to vary quite a bit based on the soure. As a data point on this: a friend visited the estate about a year ago, and bought some wine, only to realise that the wines were sold cheaper in Belgium than at the estate.

I do have 3 bottles each of the 16 and 17 (30 EUR all-in).
Jozef

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#247 Post by eweininger » April 27th, 2020, 7:15 am

Julian Marshall wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 5:56 am
I was surprised to find the 2014 still available. They tend to be sought after at auction, which to be honest is what brought L'Eclipse to my attention in the first place - I was curious to see why someone would want it so badly - then I got lucky with a lone bottle of 2010 where I was unopposed. I don't know what your vintages are, but on the basis of last night's, they will improve a lot with further cellaring.

BTW - on the subject of weird Covid 19 auction action, there are four bottles of Alliet Coteau de Noiré on sale her, with current bids at 50 and...72€ a bottle before buyer's premium...totally mad.
My eclipse is 2005. Time to open one, I think.

Thanks for the interesting report about the Alliet Noire. From what I gather he makes about 500 cases of that wine, so not exactly a micro-cuvée. It’s not that hard to find over here, in my experience, for maybe $30-$40.

From what I understand, Alliet was pretty heavy handed in his use of new oak back in the 90s. He corrected course, but still has a bit of a reputation over here. At least that’s my best guess.
Elliot

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#248 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 27th, 2020, 7:24 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 6:23 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 6:08 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 5:26 am


The Chambolle of the Loire????????????? Why not just get the Chambolle of Chambolle if you want something like Chambolle?

Because that’s a Burg, meh. ;)
If you don't like Burgundy, isn't calling a wine the Chambolle of the Loire saying that the wine is MEH. [scratch.gif]
That was Crush, not me. I don’t even know what Chambolle is!

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#249 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 8:18 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 7:24 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 6:23 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 6:08 am



Because that’s a Burg, meh. ;)
If you don't like Burgundy, isn't calling a wine the Chambolle of the Loire saying that the wine is MEH. [scratch.gif]
That was Crush, not me. I don’t even know what Chambolle is!
It the hottest new brand of watches. newhere
Howard

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Re: What would your classification of Loire reds be?

#250 Post by Julian Marshall » April 27th, 2020, 8:34 am

eweininger wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 7:15 am
Julian Marshall wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 5:56 am
I was surprised to find the 2014 still available. They tend to be sought after at auction, which to be honest is what brought L'Eclipse to my attention in the first place - I was curious to see why someone would want it so badly - then I got lucky with a lone bottle of 2010 where I was unopposed. I don't know what your vintages are, but on the basis of last night's, they will improve a lot with further cellaring.

BTW - on the subject of weird Covid 19 auction action, there are four bottles of Alliet Coteau de Noiré on sale her, with current bids at 50 and...72€ a bottle before buyer's premium...totally mad.
My eclipse is 2005. Time to open one, I think.

Thanks for the interesting report about the Alliet Noire. From what I gather he makes about 500 cases of that wine, so not exactly a micro-cuvée. It’s not that hard to find over here, in my experience, for maybe $30-$40.

From what I understand, Alliet was pretty heavy handed in his use of new oak back in the 90s. He corrected course, but still has a bit of a reputation over here. At least that’s my best guess.
That 2005 should be a killer! I like Alliet's wines, albeit a different style to the one I normally prefer. I think the 2014 bidding is just lockdown madness, boredom or both - it's available in shops at 25€!

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