Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

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Robert Sand
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Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#1 Post by Robert Sand » January 7th, 2020, 3:01 am

I am puzzled how often I can read here "I put it down the drain"!

May it be a totally TCA infested wine (which I understand), but also wines with "too much" alcohol content, overripe, pruney, port-like, premoxed, too much oak - past its prime, over the hill, not to my taste etc. etc. - all is going "down the drain" [scratch.gif]

Is this only a literally expression (and the wines actually kept for other purposes) - or do most people that actually always carry out?

I can think of a lot of ways to use a bottle/glass that I don´t want to drink out: for various purposes of cooking, drinking hot with sugar and spices (Glühwein in Germany), make vinegar out of it etc.

Even only slightly corked wine can be used for cooking, because TCA evaporates quickly with heating.
All really down the drain immediately?

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#2 Post by Doug Schulman » January 7th, 2020, 3:38 am

It's just wine. I want to enjoy it.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#3 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » January 7th, 2020, 3:50 am

If i’m not enjoying it, and its open, it will go down the drain. Perhaps that sounds decadent, but why drink something that gives little pleasure. And that’s not to say that the wine is flawed, or even bad, just that it is not good, not enjoyable. I rarely cook, so have no other use for it other than down the gullet or drain.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#4 Post by YLee » January 7th, 2020, 3:54 am

If I dont like it and nobody else will drink it, it will go down the drain. I dont care how much $ it is or how "special" the bottle is.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#5 Post by Robert Sand » January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am

What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#6 Post by Jim Stewart » January 7th, 2020, 4:35 am

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#7 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » January 7th, 2020, 4:35 am

I concur. If it’s not flawed, and it’s just not enjoyable, I will give it some time, including corking it up and sticking it in the fridge overnight to see if anything happens.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#8 Post by Victor Hong » January 7th, 2020, 4:45 am

Even the most heavenly wine eventually goes down the drain.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#9 Post by Philip G » January 7th, 2020, 5:59 am

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
Do you have any facts to back up the claim that most people on this board dump wine down the drain "immediately after initial disappointment". My opinion is this is a made up problem.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#10 Post by Morten Båtbukt » January 7th, 2020, 6:12 am

Quite often and most people seems to be quite different things.

TCA goes down the drain here (unless it’s returnable), most other disappointments get used for cooking. Got served a TCA infected risotto once and have thus never tried to cook with it.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#11 Post by Greg K » January 7th, 2020, 6:18 am

I don’t really cook, so if I kept every bottle of wine I didn’t enjoy around the apartment, either as vinegar or cooking wine, I’d run out if space in a few months.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#12 Post by Robert Sand » January 7th, 2020, 7:00 am

Philip G wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 5:59 am
Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
Do you have any facts to back up the claim that most people on this board dump wine down the drain "immediately after initial disappointment". My opinion is this is a made up problem.
As written above I didn´t write "most people" but "quite often" - I don´t think that´s ME making up a problem.
Moreover you just have to follow the threads here to read about actions like that (if often, sometimes or rarely I leave open to you)

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#13 Post by Michae1 P0wers » January 7th, 2020, 7:03 am

I cook quite a lot, so most unwanted wine is set aside for that purpose. Still, much of the wine set aside for cooking still ends up down the drain if not used for awhile. Even cooking every day, I have only so much use for red wine, somewhat more for white. I will say though, that if a wine is pruny, oxidized, too oaky, or just an overripe mess, I'm more skeptical of cooking with it. Alcohol itself is less of a concern because it will cook off in most of what I use wine for, but the characteristics I mention aren't necessarily something I want in a finished food product either, let alone in concentrated form.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#14 Post by Ian S » January 7th, 2020, 7:05 am

Victor Hong wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:45 am
Even the most heavenly wine eventually goes down the drain.
[snort.gif] Nice one mate! [wink.gif]
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#15 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » January 7th, 2020, 7:25 am

Corked wines go down the drain (although I have cooked with them when desperate and they work perfectly well for that; the TCA seems to burn off, though I have no idea why that happens). Wines I really don't like I cook with and I keep cooking wines for a very long time in the fridge and they still work. I also do drink wines for the educational experience sometimes, but rarely more than a glass.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#16 Post by matthew c » January 7th, 2020, 8:24 am

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
I'm a bit guilty of this. I will endeavour to try and hold out on wines a little longer this year before giving up on them!
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#17 Post by larry schaffer » January 7th, 2020, 9:00 am

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
Very well stated, and whether it's true on this board or not, I see it every day in tasting rooms for instance. Tasting wine is too often about the first impression and not about following the evolution of a wine - and far too many folks either don't have or aren't trained to have the patience required to follow a wine. The truth is that the majority of folks who casually drink wine simply do not care - they want immediate gratification and if they don't like the first taste or smell, they are bound to toss it. I don't feel that applies to the majority of folks on this board.

In thinking about this, think about reviewers who go through dozens of wines and make assessments based on 'quick tastes', or note on this board from large tastings where folks are in the same situation, and think how 'valid' these impressions may be instead of being able to sit with a wine longer. And remember that this not only applies to 'bad' wines but to 'good' ones as well - your initial reaction may change as that wine sits out longer, etc . . .

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#18 Post by Tom Blach » January 7th, 2020, 9:07 am

If corked wine is boiled the TCA will be driven off. If however it is added unheated to a pan in which fat is present the TCA will bind to it and be unremovable.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#19 Post by Jdbramm » January 7th, 2020, 9:08 am

Just last night we opened a 2018 dry Riesling. I’ve been trying different Riesling styles lately to see what I like, expand the palate etc. This was less than 3.0 g/l RS...super dry and teeth-shatteringly acidic. But the biggest problem was the overwhelming petroleum nose and taste. It overpowered any positive fruit flavors. I couldn’t finish my second glass with our dinner. Leaving in the frig for a day or two to see if it will diminish, but if that doesn’t go away it’s going down the drain. All part of trying out new styles. The petroleum stuff is not for me I guess. Bottle was less than $20, so not a huge loss. This might fit the description of the thread, but I’m not wasting calories on something I don’t enjoy.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#20 Post by Philip G » January 7th, 2020, 10:15 am

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 7:00 am
Philip G wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 5:59 am
Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:20 am
What I have forgotten to add: "down the drain" seems to happen quite often immediately after initial disapointment, often without advanced opening, and well before watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days (I know there are exceptions here who do that).
If I had get rid of many wines early on after tasting I would have missed some of the most impressive experiences ... quite a few wines actually did not only recover after several hours/days, but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know).
Do you have any facts to back up the claim that most people on this board dump wine down the drain "immediately after initial disappointment". My opinion is this is a made up problem.
As written above I didn´t write "most people" but "quite often" - I don´t think that´s ME making up a problem.
Moreover you just have to follow the threads here to read about actions like that (if often, sometimes or rarely I leave open to you)
You say “quite often” but follow with “there are exceptions here who do that” in regards to “watching the evolution of the wine for several hours hours, even several days“ and also say “but blossomed into real beauties (as several of you will know)”.

The implication here is clearly that there is a minority who know how to appreciate wine, the “exceptions” and “several of you” who are doing it right. It’s condescending.

There are a number of factors going into someone’s decision on what to do with a wine they don’t like. Several of these might be:
1. Is the wine clearly flawed?
2. If it’s flawed what do you do with it?
3. If it’s not flawed what do you do with it?
4. Is it a wine that may taste better with more time?
5. How much does the wine cost?
6. Do you cook with wine?
7. Are there other people you know who might like the wine?

For me, if it’s clearly flawed I pour it down the drain. I don’t spend more time on it. We have plenty of gifted low priced wines that we can open or Coravin for cooking so no need to keep it.

If it’s a very cheap wine, maybe something someone brought over that got opened and it’s leftover and I don’t think anyone in the family will drink i will pour it out at the end of the night. I’ve done thus with a 19 Crimes Chardonnay, for instance.

If it is a supposedly decent quality wine that I don’t like I will give it more time or cork it to try later or to share with the Mrs or the “kids”, whose tastes are different from mine and often will like something I’m not thrilled with.

I just haven’t read many tasting notes where the taster said they tried a wine and didn’t like it so poured it down the drain. I have read many where they say they tried it and we’re not impressed on day one so tried again day 2 or 3.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#21 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » January 7th, 2020, 10:45 am

Tom Blach wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 9:07 am
If corked wine is boiled the TCA will be driven off. If however it is added unheated to a pan in which fat is present the TCA will bind to it and be unremovable.
Interesting. Thank you.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#22 Post by Gerhard P. » January 7th, 2020, 10:46 am

I'm wirh Robert here, far too often a wine that doesn't please immediately is got rid of, for instance in our monthly tasting group poured into the trash pot, instead of waiting until the end of the tasting for (maybe positive) change.
In my own tastings I always ask to put all rests back into the original bottles - all bottles go round after each flight with a fennel - ready for retasting at the end ... or at least for me at home the next day.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#23 Post by GregT » January 7th, 2020, 10:53 am

In thinking about this, think about reviewers who go through dozens of wines and make assessments based on 'quick tastes', or note on this board from large tastings where folks are in the same situation, and think how 'valid' these impressions may be instead of being able to sit with a wine longer. And remember that this not only applies to 'bad' wines but to 'good' ones as well - your initial reaction may change as that wine sits out longer, etc . . .
I'm 90 points on that.

To be fair, if you've been tasting widely for ten years you may have some clue that a wine isn't quite ready. OTOH I have a friend who thinks that's foolish because he thinks it's weird to rate a wine based on potential, since you really have no way of predicting the future. He says a critic should just rate the wine on where it is when tasted, because that's the only thing the critic really knows for sure.

In my case, if my wife doesn't like a wine, I end up drinking it. Like that Grenache we had last night that she refused to drink.

If neither of us likes a wine but it isn't flawed, we'll cook with it. You can never have too much cooking wine IMO. And some dear friends of us gave us some wine for Christmas - that's going to be cooking wine as well.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#24 Post by David Glasser » January 7th, 2020, 12:20 pm

I've seen the sort of posts that prompted Robert's OP. Hard to be sure how many were employing hyperbole or simply didn't bother to post details of how much of a try they gave the wine. I doubt very many pour a displeasing wine down the drain after just a sip or two. Maybe a flawed poll is in order?

I'm happy to give a disappointing wine a chance. I'm drinking, not tasting, and there's usually only 1, occasionally 2 bottles open at any given time. Going back to recheck hourly or even the next day is the routine here. If it's really not worth drinking a day later we'll cook with it or dump it. Unless it's corked. TCA-afflicted wines go down the drain straight away. I don't cook with them.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#25 Post by Chris Seiber » January 7th, 2020, 12:38 pm

David Glasser wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:20 pm
I've seen the sort of posts that prompted Robert's OP. Hard to be sure how many were employing hyperbole or simply didn't bother to post details of how much of a try they gave the wine. I doubt very many pour a displeasing wine down the drain after just a sip or two. Maybe a flawed poll is in order?
That's exactly what I was going to write. (1) People use expressions like that to amplify their feelings about not liking the wine (e.g. former avatar photo of one poster pouring Harlan down the sink), and (2) posters don't necessarily bother to always write out what steps occurred in between them first being disappointed by the wine and the eventual discarding of it.

But then again, I'd guess many of us (myself included) aren't that diligent about checking and rechecking a wine we didn't like over hours and days, either. I will usually set a disappointing bottle aside to see if air and time improve it, but then I often don't end up being diligent about trying it hours and days later either. It depends a lot on the wine and what it was I didn't like about it, whether those things suggest to me the likelihood of something better happening later on with the wine.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#26 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » January 7th, 2020, 12:48 pm

We drink a fair number of pretty old wine at some of our offlines, and I'm always surprised when I have to insist we don't give up immediately on some wines that don't impress upon opening.

It's surprising how many of them do turn around and even impress after they've been given some time. Unless something is very clearly corked (often there is some debate if something is actually corked), there's no harm in seeing what happens to it after an hour in the decanter.

Then again, I remember a wine that knocked my socks off for 30 seconds, and then it was gone, and I'm still not sure it was ever really there or if I only imagined it.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#27 Post by dsimmons » January 7th, 2020, 12:53 pm

When I do not like a wine , I usually cook with it. f it is spoiled or really horrible I dump it.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#28 Post by David Glasser » January 7th, 2020, 1:08 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:38 pm
David Glasser wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:20 pm
I've seen the sort of posts that prompted Robert's OP. Hard to be sure how many were employing hyperbole or simply didn't bother to post details of how much of a try they gave the wine. I doubt very many pour a displeasing wine down the drain after just a sip or two. Maybe a flawed poll is in order?
That's exactly what I was going to write. (1) People use expressions like that to amplify their feelings about not liking the wine (e.g. former avatar photo of one poster pouring Harlan down the sink), and (2) posters don't necessarily bother to always write out what steps occurred in between them first being disappointed by the wine and the eventual discarding of it.

But then again, I'd guess many of us (myself included) aren't that diligent about checking and rechecking a wine we didn't like over hours and days, either. I will usually set a disappointing bottle aside to see if air and time improve it, but then I often don't end up being diligent about trying it hours and days later either. It depends a lot on the wine and what it was I didn't like about it, whether those things suggest to me the likelihood of something better happening later on with the wine.
I've had that happen too, Chris, where I've put a wine aside to try later and then forget about it for days, at which point it's usually a goner. Those are "judgment reserved" in my book.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#29 Post by Wes Barton » January 7th, 2020, 2:09 pm

David Glasser wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:20 pm
I've seen the sort of posts that prompted Robert's OP. Hard to be sure how many were employing hyperbole or simply didn't bother to post details of how much of a try they gave the wine. I doubt very many pour a displeasing wine down the drain after just a sip or two. Maybe a flawed poll is in order?

I'm happy to give a disappointing wine a chance. I'm drinking, not tasting, and there's usually only 1, occasionally 2 bottles open at any given time. Going back to recheck hourly or even the next day is the routine here. If it's really not worth drinking a day later we'll cook with it or dump it. Unless it's corked. TCA-afflicted wines go down the drain straight away. I don't cook with them.
Me too. I've also seen people do that in person, including serious veteran winos. Some people are just very alpha like that. They confidently assign certain judgment and move on. "Nothing to learn here, folks!" But, another feature of alpha people is they project a disproportionate volume to their actions, so if you aren't paying close attention, the actions or opinions of a few can seem mainstream.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#30 Post by Chris Seiber » January 7th, 2020, 4:27 pm

One other thing I'd point out is that, increasingly in today's world, when people don't approve of or agree with something, they often feel the need to go all the way to the extreme of hating everything about that thing.

You don't just disagree with a politician's views and positions, he or she also has to be a terrible human being who has nefarious motives, cheated to win office, and is trying to do terrible things to our country. The fans of your football team's rivals aren't just people who root for a different team than you, they have to be bunch of bad, stupid people with embarrassing personal habits and so forth. You don't like Wine Spectator, so they must be a corrupt business which sells high scores to wineries in exchange for advertising dollars.

And I'm not just pointing fingers, I realize I sometimes do the same thing (don't ask my opinion about Texas A&M Aggies). It's something we all have to catch ourselves about at times.

This is a very small example, but I think for similar reasons, "I didn't care for this wine" or "this isn't a style/type/producer that I like" ends up becoming "I took one sip and poured it down the drain" and "totally undrinkable" (see other thread about that on the board right now) and "DNPIM." I recall a thread about Kosta Browne where one poster said he'd like to punch the winemakers in the face because of what he thought of their wines.

I also realize that some people are just being glib and lighthearted using those types of hyperbolic expressions (the Kosta Browne poster was not, though), and that even if they're not, this is a very small deal in the scheme of things. I also think that WB has far less of that kind of tribalism and extremeness than most places on the web. But it did nonetheless strike me as being part of the larger trend.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#31 Post by JDavisRoby » January 7th, 2020, 5:04 pm

I’m either a yak or an alcoholic because I don’t know the last time I poured a wine out unless it had been open for 3+ days.

That or I only drink great wines. [berserker.gif]
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#32 Post by Cris Whetstone » January 7th, 2020, 5:59 pm

I understand what the OP is saying. Seiber also sums up a lot of the points I would make. And I think the more than a few defensive responses here would indicate Robert touched on something.

Sure if a wine is completely cooked or TCA ridden it will go down the drain. But we know that's not what he's referring to. It's more about the notes where people are pronouncing their tastes to the world and how important their disapproval of something can be.

The surprising thing to me is that people who use resources like this forum and CellarTracker would still end up purchasing wines that they prefer to boast about pouring down a drain than chilling out and relaxing with for a while.
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Gerhard P.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#33 Post by Gerhard P. » January 8th, 2020, 1:14 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 4:27 pm
One other thing I'd point out is that, increasingly in today's world, when people don't approve of or agree with something, they often feel the need to go all the way to the extreme of hating everything about that thing.
...
This is a very small example, but I think for similar reasons, "I didn't care for this wine" or "this isn't a style/type/producer that I like" ends up becoming "I took one sip and poured it down the drain" and "totally undrinkable" (see other thread about that on the board right now) and "DNPIM." I recall a thread about Kosta Browne where one poster said he'd like to punch the winemakers in the face because of what he thought of their wines.
...
Cris Whetstone wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 5:59 pm
...
Sure if a wine is completely cooked or TCA ridden it will go down the drain. But we know that's not what he's referring to. It's more about the notes where people are pronouncing their tastes to the world and how important their disapproval of something can be.
...
Wes Barton wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 2:09 pm
...
Me too. I've also seen people do that in person, including serious veteran winos. Some people are just very alpha like that. They confidently assign certain judgment and move on. "Nothing to learn here, folks!" But, another feature of alpha people is they project a disproportionate volume to their actions, so if you aren't paying close attention, the actions or opinions of a few can seem mainstream.

Agree with the posts above ... I´ve experiences similar habits quite often.


K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:48 pm
We drink a fair number of pretty old wine at some of our offlines, and I'm always surprised when I have to insist we don't give up immediately on some wines that don't impress upon opening.

It's surprising how many of them do turn around and even impress after they've been given some time. Unless something is very clearly corked (often there is some debate if something is actually corked), there's no harm in seeing what happens to it after an hour in the decanter.

Then again, I remember a wine that knocked my socks off for 30 seconds, and then it was gone, and I'm still not sure it was ever really there or if I only imagined it.
An extreme example (which I think I´ve told here already before):
After a quite comprehensive tasting of Northern Rhone whites I put some bottles with remains into a cardboard case in standing position ... and forgot about it in my cellar for at least 8 months.
When I found it eventually a bottle of 1981 Hermitage blanc, which was quite disapointing in the tasting ... and therefore refilled to app. to 1/3, proved to be not only sound and drinkable, but was really outstanding and a very impressive wine ... performing in the 92-93 point-range.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#34 Post by Anton D » January 8th, 2020, 8:38 am

"Down the drain" is entering the lexicon like "Back the truck up" did.

Us oenophiles are prone to prosaic pronouncements like that.

Valley kids had "gag me with a spoon," we have "down the drain."
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#35 Post by K John Joseph » January 8th, 2020, 9:26 am

Why do we drink wine? The taste and experience. If the taste and experience is displeasing, why keep drinking it? If you believe there is no hope of resuscitation, pour it down the drain. Corked 2008 Dom on new years eve was going right down the drain immediately. There is no curing the flaw. Stewed wine, down the drain.

I get that there is another issue...just a wine that's not ideal, not to your preferences, etc. and whether that should go down the drain. That, to me, is an issue of degree. If it's not my favorite, but still enjoyable for one reason or another, I'll drink it. There are some Napa cabs above 15% that are a bit overboard but still have their own charm, to me. If I affirmatively do not like it, I won't. I've had Napa cabs over 16 and dry grenache over 17.5 that I did not find enjoyable at all. If I can't or don't want to finish even one glass, I see no reason to force the issue. I do not need the alcohol. What is the difference between pouring it down the drain, or having 2/3 of a bottle spoil on my counter because I don't want to drink it?

I don't need the wine, and I have many surefire bets for enjoyment in my liquor cabinet and in other bottles of wine. Why force a masochistic slog through a displeasing bottle at all? Who cares what label is on it. Isn't that the worst sin a self-proclaimed wine aficionado can commit? Taking some certain self-dishonest action because of a label or price paid?

As for things magically changing, I have had very, very few instances in which something went from being so bad and displeasing that I wanted to pour it down the drain to something enjoyable and worth appreciating. And in each of those instances, there was a reason. Like opening a 20 year old Aussie shiraz with an ultra-tight cork and suffering through massive reduction for a bit before the O2 finally helped it show its real colors. That's about it, though. If we're talking about the development of a Barolo or Rioja over a day or two, you should see that coming and getting caught with a day-later surprise on a wine like that is a matter of inexperience, not taste.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#36 Post by K John Joseph » January 8th, 2020, 9:31 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:14 am
An extreme example (which I think I´ve told here already before):
After a quite comprehensive tasting of Northern Rhone whites I put some bottles with remains into a cardboard case in standing position ... and forgot about it in my cellar for at least 8 months.
When I found it eventually a bottle of 1981 Hermitage blanc, which was quite disapointing in the tasting ... and therefore refilled to app. to 1/3, proved to be not only sound and drinkable, but was really outstanding and a very impressive wine ... performing in the 92-93 point-range.
Wut. It magically turn into this when you weren't looking or what?
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#37 Post by Markus S » January 8th, 2020, 9:43 am

Wes Barton wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 2:09 pm
David Glasser wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 12:20 pm
I've seen the sort of posts that prompted Robert's OP. Hard to be sure how many were employing hyperbole or simply didn't bother to post details of how much of a try they gave the wine. I doubt very many pour a displeasing wine down the drain after just a sip or two. Maybe a flawed poll is in order?

I'm happy to give a disappointing wine a chance. I'm drinking, not tasting, and there's usually only 1, occasionally 2 bottles open at any given time. Going back to recheck hourly or even the next day is the routine here. If it's really not worth drinking a day later we'll cook with it or dump it. Unless it's corked. TCA-afflicted wines go down the drain straight away. I don't cook with them.
Me too. I've also seen people do that in person, including serious veteran winos. Some people are just very alpha like that. They confidently assign certain judgment and move on. "Nothing to learn here, folks!" But, another feature of alpha people is they project a disproportionate volume to their actions, so if you aren't paying close attention, the actions or opinions of a few can seem mainstream.
Alpha? Or more money than brains?
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#38 Post by Jeff_M. » January 8th, 2020, 9:55 am

Down the drain = might as well burn my money. If the wine isn't good, it absolutely gets dumped at the sink. Usually these are cheap bottles I grab at Costco or at a wine shop but there are very few bottles I have this issue with. If I'm drinking with family I will give them larger pours of wines I don't care for and switch to another bottle.
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Gerhard P.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#39 Post by Gerhard P. » January 8th, 2020, 10:04 am

K John Joseph wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 9:31 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:14 am
An extreme example (which I think I´ve told here already before):
After a quite comprehensive tasting of Northern Rhone whites I put some bottles with remains into a cardboard case in standing position ... and forgot about it in my cellar for at least 8 months.
When I found it eventually a bottle of 1981 Hermitage blanc, which was quite disapointing in the tasting ... and therefore refilled to app. to 1/3, proved to be not only sound and drinkable, but was really outstanding and a very impressive wine ... performing in the 92-93 point-range.
Wut. It magically turn into this when you weren't looking or what?
I don´t know what this is supposed to be ...?

You don´t have to believe anything I´ve written ... I really don´t care ...
but the wine (an Hermitage blanc 1981) - which was not very good initially in a comprehensive tasting - turned out to be oustanding after 8 months in a bottle, 2/3 empty and sitting in a cardboard box in my (I admit VERY cool) cellar.

That´s fact.
Nothing close to an oxidized Sherry, a perfectly mature white Hermitage!
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Markus S
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#40 Post by Markus S » January 8th, 2020, 10:46 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 10:04 am
K John Joseph wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 9:31 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:14 am
An extreme example (which I think I´ve told here already before):
After a quite comprehensive tasting of Northern Rhone whites I put some bottles with remains into a cardboard case in standing position ... and forgot about it in my cellar for at least 8 months.
When I found it eventually a bottle of 1981 Hermitage blanc, which was quite disapointing in the tasting ... and therefore refilled to app. to 1/3, proved to be not only sound and drinkable, but was really outstanding and a very impressive wine ... performing in the 92-93 point-range.
Wut. It magically turn into this when you weren't looking or what?
I don´t know what this is supposed to be ...?

You don´t have to believe anything I´ve written ... I really don´t care ...
but the wine (an Hermitage blanc 1981) - which was not very good initially in a comprehensive tasting - turned out to be oustanding after 8 months in a bottle, 2/3 empty and sitting in a cardboard box in my (I admit VERY cool) cellar.

That´s fact.
Nothing close to an oxidized Sherry, a perfectly mature white Hermitage!

But white Rhone can do that! Whether you look or not, they can transform. Ones that I had written off sometimes will come back to a life you wouldn't have envisioned earlier.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#41 Post by MitchTallan » January 8th, 2020, 11:22 am

My version of reality is that Fu started the "it's a thing" with his avatar of a bottle of Noon Eclipse being dumped back in the eBob days. ERP himself took offense to Charley's avatar not long after making some kind of remark to the effect that he found the avatar disturbing and unfair.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#42 Post by Victor Hong » January 8th, 2020, 12:09 pm

MitchTallan wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:22 am
My version of reality is that Fu started the "it's a thing" with his avatar of a bottle of Noon Eclipse being dumped back in the eBob days. ERP himself took offense to Charley's avatar not long after making some kind of remark to the effect that he found the avatar disturbing and unfair.
So funny when critics themselves have thin skin.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#43 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » January 8th, 2020, 1:15 pm

Markus S wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 10:46 am


But white Rhone can do that! Whether you look or not, they can transform. Ones that I had written off sometimes will come back to a life you wouldn't have envisioned earlier.
I might just try this with my last bottle of 2001 Beaucastel Blanc, the last two bottles of which have been massively disappointing.
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#44 Post by Hank Victor » January 8th, 2020, 1:36 pm

JDavisRoby wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 5:04 pm
I’m either a yak or an alcoholic because I don’t know the last time I poured a wine out unless it had been open for 3+ days.

That or I only drink great wines. [berserker.gif]
This [berserker.gif]
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Chris Seiber
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#45 Post by Chris Seiber » January 8th, 2020, 2:00 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:15 pm
Markus S wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 10:46 am


But white Rhone can do that! Whether you look or not, they can transform. Ones that I had written off sometimes will come back to a life you wouldn't have envisioned earlier.
I might just try this with my last bottle of 2001 Beaucastel Blanc, the last two bottles of which have been massively disappointing.
Once in a blue moon, you hit a white Rhone at the right age where it's a great experience. I had a Beaucastel Blanc once at maybe around that 15-20 year old age (it was maybe a mid 1990s vintage) and it was a beauty. But it's the lowest batting average of any wine category, in my opinion and experience. It's like the NL pitcher batting average.

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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#46 Post by lleichtman » January 8th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Robert Sand wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 3:01 am
I am puzzled how often I can read here "I put it down the drain"!

May it be a totally TCA infested wine (which I understand), but also wines with "too much" alcohol content, overripe, pruney, port-like, premoxed, too much oak - past its prime, over the hill, not to my taste etc. etc. - all is going "down the drain" [scratch.gif]

Is this only a literally expression (and the wines actually kept for other purposes) - or do most people that actually always carry out?

I can think of a lot of ways to use a bottle/glass that I don´t want to drink out: for various purposes of cooking, drinking hot with sugar and spices (Glühwein in Germany), make vinegar out of it etc.

Even only slightly corked wine can be used for cooking, because TCA evaporates quickly with heating.
All really down the drain immediately?
I either use them for cooking or into the ongoing Balsamic Vase.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#47 Post by Gerhard P. » January 9th, 2020, 12:03 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 2:00 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 1:15 pm
Markus S wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 10:46 am


But white Rhone can do that! Whether you look or not, they can transform. Ones that I had written off sometimes will come back to a life you wouldn't have envisioned earlier.
I might just try this with my last bottle of 2001 Beaucastel Blanc, the last two bottles of which have been massively disappointing.
Once in a blue moon, you hit a white Rhone at the right age where it's a great experience. I had a Beaucastel Blanc once at maybe around that 15-20 year old age (it was maybe a mid 1990s vintage) and it was a beauty. But it's the lowest batting average of any wine category, in my opinion and experience. It's like the NL pitcher batting average.
Just FWIW: my cellar has around 7-8° C during winter ... and 12°C in summer.
Might also have been of importance ...
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#48 Post by Kirk.Grant » January 9th, 2020, 5:49 am

For me, wine is about enjoyment and having an experience. If I'm not enjoying it...it's just alcohol. I don't really like being drunk, so down the drain, or strait to the garbage pale; it's not something I plan to drink.
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#49 Post by Rudi Finkler » January 9th, 2020, 7:45 am

1994-Comtesse.jpg
Three of these went down the drain in recent years. :-)
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Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

#50 Post by Anton D » January 9th, 2020, 8:40 am

New meme: pictures showing who can pour the priciest wine down the drain!

Kirk, what vintage was that? I think you are the current benchmark.

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What is man, when you come to think upon him, but a minutely set, ingenious machine for turning, with infinite artfulness, the fine red wine of Shiraz into urine?

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