Better Than Average Kabinett

Has anyone found a German Riesling Kabinett that you really like and is readily available in the US? It’s one wine my Norwegian wife and I can agree upon. We like something a bit better than a Qba but a Kabinett is about as sweet as we can handle. Unfortunately, the choices here in rural Indiana are a bit slim and what we can find on occasion is suspiciously inexpensive. We’d like something better if we can find it. We know we can move up the Qmp ladder, but we want to stay with a Kabinett to avoid further sweetness. (As ironic as that is with my last name.) I have found a couple of sources on the east coast for the Egon Muller Kabinett and expect to order some unless I can find a better recommendation.

Any suggestions? I’m hoping to find someone who has tried the Muller or maybe knows of something better. All comments much appreciated.

Hans

What do you mean by “better”? Your.post strikes me as weird … ?

Max Ferd Richter Veldenzer Elisenberg. The 2015 is particularly delicious. And lots cheaper than Egon Muller

Thanks. I’ll see if I can find some of the Max Ferd Richter Veldenzer Elisenberg.

Hans

If you like true Kabinett, I prefer wines from Graacher Himmelriech as they tend to have Kabinett weight…Prum, Loosen, Monchof in Mosel. Big fan of Kabinett from Maximin Grunhauser and Schafer Frohlich too.

Came to say this! I’ve only had the 2016, but I would guess that the '15 is even better. I don’t consider Max Ferd one of my favorite producers, but this wine is really great, and only about $23 or so!

Some other great Kabs that come to mind are Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Leistenberg Riesling Kabinett and I’m always very happy with Schloss Lieser Kabs (though, I feel like they tend to be on the heavier side of Kabs).

I’ve only had Egon Muller Spatlese (fairly young) and while it was great, I didn’t think it was head and shoulders better than many Spatlesen that sell for a fraction of the price. Maybe when they are perfectly aged, their premium is more justified, but from my limited experience with Muller, I think it’s a big rip off. You’d be better off buying 5+ Kabinetts from other producers and see what you like best.

Thanks,

Hans

+1 for Graacher Himmerlich and Prum.

Nik Weis St. Urbans HoF makes a not too sweet Kabinett from the Ockfener Bockstein that is generally available. I like it and drink it often.

Donnhofff, Prum, Keller.

Perhaps try a trocken as well. Donnhoff and Keller make excellent entry-point trocken, around $20-$25.

I drink a lot of Riesling and rarely, as well, venture beyond Kabinett, finding Many Spatlese too sweet for me. I really prefer trocken.

Just opened a Schafer Frohlich kabinett last night - great stuff.

Big fan of this Donnhoff bottling as well.

Lots of good advice above. I would only add that you shouldn’t be worried by bottles that look “suspiciously inexpensive.” You haven’t defined that, but good German Kabinett is one of the outstanding bargains in the wine world. Many are available in the $20-30 price range.

Also, check out Wine Searcher for retailers in IN and those that ship there.

The original poster uses the word “better” three times…which do you view as weird?

His first use is where he says he wants something “a bit better than QbA”.

The different ripeness categories are referred to as “quality levels”, which gives the impression that each level is somehow a better quality than the one before. We know that this isn’t necessarily the case and that the levels, at least above QbA, refer to ripeness of the grapes. HOWEVER, in most cases it IS the case that QmP wines are of better quality than QbA (in addition to being riper).

The fact is that the QbA designation means, (i) grapes are allowed from a much broader (less strict) set of growing regions, (ii) ripeness levels are so low that chaptalization is allowed and is often needed for the wine to reach the minimum alcohol content required, and (iii) the wines are less expensive (and have greater production volumes) that the QmP wines of the same producer, generally lead many people to understand that QbA is, in essence, a lower-quality wine as compared to the predikat wines.

Producers use more rigorous grape selection standards (beyond the geographic and legal ripeness standards) for their QmP wines Even Wikipedia, in its explanation of the quality designations, refers to QmP wines as “superior quality wines” and while it notes that as between the different QmP levels (kabinett, spatlese, auslese, etc.), “the term ‘quality levels’ is a misnomer, as ripeness is not necessarily a predictor of quality” it then goes on to state that QbA wines are “basic, everyday, inexpensive quaffing wines” and that “exciting things are rarely made.”

So it doesn’t seem “weird” to me at all to make the generalization that a kabinett is usually “better” than the QbA of the same producer.

His second use of “better” is in the context of wanting something “better than” the suspiciously inexpensive wines he sees at his local store.

It seems reasonable to assume that, as a broad generalization, more expensive wines are likely to be “better”, and that wines at a certain price point (e.g. $10-$15) are not likely to be exciting. As David’s post just before mine points out, as a whole, German Riesling can be very reasonably priced, and relative to other wine regions, very good Riesling, especially at the Kabinett level, doesn’t have to be expensive. However, I too would be “suspicious” of buying inexpensive Kabinett at very low prices (e.g. under $13) of an unknown producer.

His last use of “better” is in reference to seeking a wine “better” than Muller. At that point, I would probably quibble with the term better, though it’s quite clear that he’s asking for recommendations of a producer whose wines he might enjoy more than those of Muller.

+1 for Graacher Himmelreich and Willi Schaefer!

A.J. Adam should also be available in the US and he makes two lovely ones: Hofberg and Has’chen, the latter being the lighter of the two.

I would be surprised if things such as Adam and Schafer Frohlich were available in Indiana, except perhaps in Indianapolis.

Someone around here turned me on to Carl Loewen herrenberg Kabinett, which is readily available for 16-22$ in most areas. I enjoy it quite a lot

Love the 2018.

Calling Salil . . . Calling Salil.

Salil is one of the resident Germano-philes who lived in NY until about 2 years ago, when he took a position as an associate professor at DePauw University in Indiana. He should be the expert on German wine availability in Indiana.

I would go with AJ Adam Drohner Hofberg Kabinett, which used to be available for about $40 for a magnum in New York. I stocked up and it’s hard to keep my hands off of them, so they are almost all gone.

Wine-searcher tells me that Kahn’s fine wines and spirits in Indianapolis has some good stuff and seems to have a large German wine collection. Depending on your price point, they have the Zilliken Saarburger Rausch Riesling Kabinett, which I really like. I’ve seen the vineyard when in Saarburg. The bottom of it comes directly down the hill to the town.

PS - My wife grew up in Muncie. If that is where you are, forget it. Drive somewhere else to buy wine. It’s a culinary wasteland except for one restaurant that was set up by Jim Davis of Garfield comics fame when he moved there after he stopped writing the comics. He teaches at Ball State.

Better than average? Anything imported by a quality importer. These wines are cheap, buy lots and find what you like.

Personally I think Julian Haart, Spater-Veit, Max Kilburg and Keller are making the most interesting classic Kabinett of late (every year). But in cooler vintages there are dozens of others.