Wine from Normandy?

[Nathan S]

Hello!

Let me preface this post by saying I have no idea about anything related to wine, so if I come across as ignorant please bear with me.

My girlfriend loves wine and I’m trying to find her a Christmas gift. She spent a year studying abroad in France and lived in Normandy. Because she was a college student she said they just drank cheap wine while she was there. I thought it would be nice to get her a nice bottle of wine from the Normandy region of France. In my search it seems Normandy isn’t really known for producing a lot of wine. That has lead me head as I continue my pursuit. I was hoping some kind wine experts here might be able to offer me some advice, insight, or simply point me in the right direction.

I don’t know much about her wine preferences except she prefers Red, doesn’t like fruity or overly sweet wines. When we go out she usually orders some type of Cabernet.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I hope this information here will at least give a bit of insight to what I think she would prefer and what would make a good gift. I’m trying to keep the price under $50 too as I know she doesn’t want me spending much on her, but I’m really just hoping to give her a thoughtful gift that she would never really buy for herself.

I look forward to learning!

Thanks!

[Kris Patten]

Think cider vs. wine if specific to Normandy, if you are looking for wine instead of region, just find a nice Cabernet-based Bordeaux like 2016 Lanessan for $22.

[Gerhard P.]

I always though grapes in the Normandie are usually destilled, and Apple Cider (and beer) is the best drink ...

but I just found this:
http://www.normandie1693.com/products/anno-1693/

[Michae1 P0wers]

Hi Nathan, others may be better suited to answer this, but I'm not aware of wine growing regions actually in Normandy. It looks like the nearest "AOC" regions are in Champagne or the Loire. Put simply, these are officially designated and recognized places that can use the name of their specific place on their label. So while there may be wine grown there it might be difficult to find. Normandy is much more closely associated with ciders. French ciders tend to be very dry and quite complex, relatively low in alcohol and most are rather inexpensive, at least compared to better wines. They tend to be less funky and therefore a bit less risky than, for instance, some Spanish ciders. I highly recommend Eric Bordelet for both his apple and his pear cider.

Of course, there's a good chance that while there she was drinking a lot of Loire wines or even wines from the South of France. The Loire produces many great wines. Most of the reds are based on Cabernet franc. If you want to try one of those, I'd look for wines from Bernard Baudry, and he makes many great wines well in your price range. Another very good producer is Charles Joguet. If you go to a good local wine shop and ask for help they can probably assist you with this and if it's a decent retailer there's a chance they'l have wines from one of these producers. You'll likely even have enough money left over for a bottle of high quality cider. That region produces excellent whites as well from Sauvignon Blanc and Chenin Blanc. Good luck!

[John Morris]

Nathan - It's probably too far north for quality red wine. Red grapes ripen later than whites, which is a problem the further north you go. The most northerly quality red areas in France, the Loire Valley and Burgundy, are quite a bit further south than Normandy.

Some good reds are produced at the same latitude in Germany, but in a particularly sunny area along the Rhine, and generally on steep slopes that expose the vines to more sunshine. (Pinot noir is grown in the Ahr Valley further north, but that's a special microclimate, those vineyards are extremely steep and the wines are quite light.)

I don't think Normandy has an abundance of sun or steep hills, so I doubt red grapes would fully ripen.

It's about the same latitude as Champagne, so you'd think white grapes might do OK, but I've never heard of any from that area.

I marked up a map comparing the latitudes. Click on it to see a readable version.

[Chris Blum]

I’ll add my voice to the cider recommendations. If the products of Normandy are near and dear to her, she’ll want cider or calvados brandy.

Norman cider is very different from American cider or the mass produced English brands.

[Karl K]

Last year I drove from Normandy to the Loire

I saw vineyards of course in the Loire but I did not see any in Normandy

As mentioned it is a cider region

I did see apples

I also saw dairies!

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

[Todd Hamina]

Research restaurants in the town she studied in, pull up their websites, look for wine lists, and try to see if you can get the wines by the glass. I would guess that would be like the cheap stuff she was drinking. Bon chance!

[markjchambers]

Look up the Route de Cidre. I was just there and the cider and calvados are great. What is just happening in craft beer world has been going
on for decades in Normandy. There are no vineyards. Restaurants in Bayeux and Caen have wines form Loire and Languedoc.

[Markus S]

Yes, it's called 'apple wine'!

[John Morris]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

[Karl K]

There is no doubt she had wine while living in Normandie but most likely it was from another part of the country, if I had to guess.

Note that they make Pommeau in Normandie which is like Pineau in Cognac and drunk eagerly as an aperitif including at lunch and I would suggest it to others as an authentic product of Normandie. Two-thirds apple must and the remainder Calvados. Due to its sweetness would be widely appreciated even by those who don’t typically drink wine.

[IlkkaL]

While on holiday in Normandy this year I came across wines from this producer in a shop in Trouville: https://www.arpents-du-soleil.com/

That said I managed to resist the temptation while there and focused on drinking the rather tasty local ciders

[Otto Forsberg]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

Uh... Calvados isn't brandy.

[Francois Olivier]

Everywhere in france, some guys produce wine (even in paris montmartre)
But in normandy or vin de montmartre, i never want to taste their wine.

[DanielP]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

Uh... Calvados isn't brandy.

Better edit that Wikipedia page then

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvados

[Odd Rydland]

Strange they call Calvados an Apple brandy while defining brandy as distilled wine. A contradiction in terms it seems. Calvados is distilled cider AFAIK.

[Karl K]

I have been to a Calvados producer. It is made from apples or perry.

The crux of the foregoing debate is whether fruit wine counts as brandy or only wine from grapes.

There is some fantastic Calvados!

[David Glasser]

Nathan, very thoughtful gift idea.

I’m with those recommending a Cabernet-based red from Bordeaux. She was probably drinking red wine from somewhere in France other than Normandy. Based on your description of her preferences, I’m guessing she’d enjoy a Bordeaux. The Lanessan recommendation above is a good one. Meyney and Sociando Mallet are also good, a bit of a step up in quality IMO, and still in your price range. The 2014, 2015, and 2016 vintages are all available and are all good. These are wines that can improve with age but are drinkable now. The 2015 might be the most open and user friendly at this young stage.

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

My mistake about Armagnac, though I wouldn't say that Gascony is the other side of the country from France. It is substantially farther south.

As to saying they are like cognac, my point was to guide the OP, not to get into a definitional pissing contest, which you have done about Calvados. The issue, I would guess, is that some definitions of brandy limit it to being distilled from grapes and Calvados is distilled from apples. The internet does seem to agree with you and not Otto, though, in defining brandy as being distilled from grape or other fruit juices. I'm agnostic on such questions, as they are rather like arguing about whether Bourbon can only be made in Kentucky, so if there is more arguing to be done, it will be without me.

[Chris Blum]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

Uh... Calvados isn't brandy.

In what way is Calvados not brandy???

[John Morris]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

Uh... Calvados isn't brandy.

Strange they call Calvados an Apple brandy while defining brandy as distilled wine. A contradiction in terms it seems. Calvados is distilled cider AFAIK.

Odd - I don't know who says that brandy is limited to distilled wine. It can be made from either wine or fermented fruits, such as apples. Poir Williams is also a brandy. Eau de vie is a subcategory of brandy.

[John Morris]

. . . Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country. . . .

My mistake about Armagnac, though I wouldn't say that Gascony is the other side of the country from France. It is substantially farther south.

I said the other end of the country, not the other side.

[Howard Cooper]

Think Calvados or Armagnac for Normandy. These are more like cognac than like wine and a good Armagnsc will be nearer $100. You should be able to find Calvados for $40-50. If you want wine, given what you and she like, I'd look for a Bordeaux.

Uh ... Armagnac is from Gascony, not Normandy. Other end of the country.

And Armagnac and Calvados are more like Cognac than like wine . . . because they're all brandies!

Uh... Calvados isn't brandy.

As I have understood it, brandy is a distillate from a fruit and liquor is a distillate from a grain. If this is correct, Calvados would be brandy.

[Howard Cooper]

Nathan, very thoughtful gift idea.

I’m with those recommending a Cabernet-based red from Bordeaux. She was probably drinking red wine from somewhere in France other than Normandy. Based on your description of her preferences, I’m guessing she’d enjoy a Bordeaux. The Lanessan recommendation above is a good one. Meyney and Sociando Mallet are also good, a bit of a step up in quality IMO, and still in your price range. The 2014, 2015, and 2016 vintages are all available and are all good. These are wines that can improve with age but are drinkable now. The 2015 might be the most open and user friendly at this young stage.

This. If she was drinking Cabernet based wine, it was likely from Cabernet Sauvignon rather than Cabernet Franc. Wines from Cabernet Franc can be quite good, but they tend to be liked more by people with a lot of wine experience rather than people with a more casual interest in wine. Thus, I would follow David's suggestion and buy her a Bordeaux. Given how large a wine region Bordeaux is, that is probably what she was drinking if she had Cabernet in Normandy.

[Otto Forsberg]

Odd - I don't know who says that brandy is limited to distilled wine. It can be made from either wine or fermented fruits, such as apples. Poir Williams is also a brandy. Eau de vie is a subcategory of brandy.

To my knowledge, "brandy" is always defined as distilled wine. And wine is made from grapes.

If it's made from other fruits, it's fruit brandy. The same distinction as between wine and fruit wine. It's perfectly ok to call Calvados as apple brandy. But not just brandy. I'd be upset if I ordered a glass of brandy in a bar and got a glass of kirsch or slivovitz.

And to my knowledge, brandy is a subcategory of eau-de-vie. Eau-de-vie is any fruit distillate, while brandy is distillate from grape must (not pomace) - normally aged in barrels as well.

As I have understood it, brandy is a distillate from a fruit and liquor is a distillate from a grain. If this is correct, Calvados would be brandy.

Liquor is a hypernym for any dry distillate above 20% ABV.

[Chris Blum]

C’mon Otto, that’s like saying Framboise isn’t an ale because you’d be upset if you “walked into a bar, ordered a pint of ale and you got a Lindemans” or saying a rauchbier isn’t beer for the same reason.

[Julian Marshall]

While on holiday in Normandy this year I came across wines from this producer in a shop in Trouville: https://www.arpents-du-soleil.com/

That said I managed to resist the temptation while there and focused on drinking the rather tasty local ciders

Quite right, Ilkkal! This is the only producer I’ve ever heard of - supposed to be quite good, actually, but sadly not available in the US according to Winesearcher. I would choose something from the Loire instead.

[John Morris]

Odd - I don't know who says that brandy is limited to distilled wine. It can be made from either wine or fermented fruits, such as apples. Poir Williams is also a brandy. Eau de vie is a subcategory of brandy.

To my knowledge, "brandy" is always defined as distilled wine. And wine is made from grapes.

If it's made from other fruits, it's fruit brandy.

Sorry, but "brandy" in English encompasses distillates made from other fruits:

alcoholic beverage distilled from wine or fermented fruit juice - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brandy

A strong alcoholic spirit distilled from wine or fermented fruit juice. - https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/brandy

a spirit distilled from wine or from the fermented juice of grapes or of apples, peaches, plums, etc. - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/brandy

Brandy, alcoholic beverage distilled from wine or a fermented fruit mash. - https://www.britannica.com/topic/brandy

Brandy in general means any kind of distilled spirit, made from fermented fruit juice. The fruit in question is often grapes, but there are a number of Brandies based on apples, pears and other sweet fruits. - https://flaviar.com/blog/is-cognac-a-br ... pare-to-it

[Otto Forsberg]

C’mon Otto, that’s like saying Framboise isn’t an ale because you’d be upset if you “walked into a bar, ordered a pint of ale and you got a Lindemans” or saying a rauchbier isn’t beer for the same reason.

To my understanding lambics are not classified as ales, so I'd be very confused if somebody poured me a framboise when I'm ordering an ale.

Rauchbier, on the other hand, most certainly is a beer.

I really fail to see what point you are trying to make with your comparisons.

[Otto Forsberg]

Sorry, but "brandy" in English encompasses distillates made from other fruits:

alcoholic beverage distilled from wine or fermented fruit juice - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brandy

A strong alcoholic spirit distilled from wine or fermented fruit juice. - https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/brandy

a spirit distilled from wine or from the fermented juice of grapes or of apples, peaches, plums, etc. - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/brandy

Brandy, alcoholic beverage distilled from wine or a fermented fruit mash. - https://www.britannica.com/topic/brandy

Brandy in general means any kind of distilled spirit, made from fermented fruit juice. The fruit in question is often grapes, but there are a number of Brandies based on apples, pears and other sweet fruits. - https://flaviar.com/blog/is-cognac-a-br ... pare-to-it

Yes, well, apparently term "wine" also includes fruit wines as well - at least according to these same sources. So if you are happy with that.

[Jonathan Loesberg]

I told you people. The facts are not in dispute. The argument over definition is circular. Have fun, though.

[John Morris]

As I have understood it, brandy is a distillate from a fruit and liquor is a distillate from a grain.

Actually, brandy is a type of liquor. Liquor encompasses brandy (from fruits, including grapes) and whiskies and vodkas (from grains or vegetables). Definitions of "liquor":

a usually distilled rather than fermented alcoholic beverage - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liquor

Liquor (also hard liquor, hard alcohol, spirit, or distilled drink) is an alcoholic drink produced by distillation of grains, fruit, or vegetables that have already gone through alcoholic fermentation. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor

Now can we get back on topic and argue about the definition of wine?

[Howard Cooper]

As I have understood it, brandy is a distillate from a fruit and liquor is a distillate from a grain.

Actually, brandy is a type of liquor. Liquor encompasses brandy (from fruits, including grapes) and whiskies and vodkas (from grains or vegetables). Definitions of "liquor":

a usually distilled rather than fermented alcoholic beverage - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liquor

Liquor (also hard liquor, hard alcohol, spirit, or distilled drink) is an alcoholic drink produced by distillation of grains, fruit, or vegetables that have already gone through alcoholic fermentation. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor

Then is the term for distilled drinks from grain whiskey?

[John Morris]

Whisky is one grain distillate. But vodka can also be made from grains, as can Chinese baijiu (sorghum, rice, wheat), so not all liquors derived from grain are whisky.

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Or even whiskey.

[Dan Kravitz]

to Nathan S,

Back on topic. As others have mentioned, there are essentially no red wines from Normandy.

Your best options:
Artisanal cider from Normandy
Red wine, Cabernet based from Bordeaux - the suggestion of 2016 Chateau Lanessan is impeccable
Red wine, Cabernet based from the Loire - A little closer to Normandy in both geography and climate. A Bourgeuil from Xavier et Agnes Amirault could be both admirable and interesting. Look for a wine from the 2015 vintage at ~$25 - 40.

Happy hunting and have a good Christmas.

Dan Kravitz

[Nathan S]

Thank you all so much for all the information! To be honest it is a bit overwhelming, but I’m trying to make sense of it all!

One thing I’m now considering because time is getting close with Christmas is I might wait and buy her some Normandy Cider for her birthday. However, would the wines suggested here be ok to wait until October 2020 to open? I’m thinking now that for Christmas I will buy her a bottle of something a put a note on it saying it’s supposed to be opened on October 18, 2020. That will be the one year anniversary of the day we first met. This will give me more time to find a Normandy Cider because I’m from a rural area of Kentucky, so my options might be limited locally in regards to cider.

Thanks again, all!

[Dan Kravitz]

Nathan,

Yes, Normandy cider is perfect, if you can find it in rural Kentucky (depending where you are, board members can probably recommend places where you can find it).

Any of the wines mentioned will be good, and in fact improve, for many years, in the case of Lanessan, for decades.

Dan Kravitz

[Nathan S]

That’s great to hear!

Would Chateau Lanessan Haut-Medoc 2016 be a good choice? That is actually in stock here locally but it does say limited quantities.

[Josh Grossman]

That’s great to hear!

Would Chateau Lanessan Haut-Medoc 2016 be a good choice? That is actually in stock here locally but it does say limited quantities.

It would be a good red Bordeaux from a good year at that price point. I'd get them two bottles; a bottle of Champagne and a bottle of Calvados. I much like Ployez-Jacquemart Champagne at that price point. Champagne is always fun to celebrate with.

[AndyK]

Research restaurants in the town she studied in, pull up their websites, look for wine lists, and try to see if you can get the wines by the glass. I would guess that would be like the cheap stuff she was drinking. Bon chance!

Have you ever been to France?

[Todd Hamina]

Two weeks ago...

[AndyK]

I like your cute idea, but show me which rural restaurant in Normandy has a wine list online (or a menu, or even a website)!

[Todd Hamina]

Done. Nathan S M I T H, what town did she study in?

Andy, $5 I find something. In or out?

[John Morris]

[Dan Kravitz]

Nathan,

2016 Chateau Lanessan is perfect for your purpose. It will be good now, and if you can swing two bottles, one would be for the future. The wine will easily improve for a decade or more.

Dan Kravitz

[alan weinberg]

I like your cute idea, but show me which rural restaurant in Normandy has a wine list online (or a menu, or even a website)!

in Bayeux: https://levoletquipenche.fr/index.php/en/

[Todd Hamina]

I used "the Fork" app a bunch, very useful.