UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

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S. Stevenson
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UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#1 Post by S. Stevenson » December 1st, 2019, 3:07 pm

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Last edited by S. Stevenson on December 2nd, 2019, 8:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#2 Post by lleichtman » December 1st, 2019, 3:21 pm

Believe you're right. Your friend is SOL on this one.
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Victor Hong
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#3 Post by Victor Hong » December 1st, 2019, 4:14 pm

Filing an insurance claim for lost wine will mean a breach of either state liquor laws or federal contraband shipping laws, or both, especially if plane transport mode.
Stating that a vase was lost, when wine was actually lost, would also mean insurance fraud..... a state felony, at least.....and likely a federal felony if across state lines.

Otherwise, must be nice to be rich. [grin.gif]
Last edited by Victor Hong on December 1st, 2019, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#4 Post by Alan Rath » December 1st, 2019, 4:18 pm

From that message, it will be interesting to hear what UPS says. It sounds like someone stole the contents, and then got rid of the packaging. So, assuming they are not claiming they purposely destroyed the package because it was wine, what evidence is there that the contents wasn't a vase? Seems like it might be a $400 insurance claim.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#5 Post by Victor Hong » December 1st, 2019, 4:20 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:18 pm
From that message, it will be interesting to hear what UPS says. It sounds like someone stole the contents, and then got rid of the packaging. So, assuming they are not claiming they purposely destroyed the package because it was wine, what evidence is there that the contents wasn't a vase? Seems like it might be a $400 insurance claim.
Be careful. A written representation which is counterfactual and intentional can be perilous. Indeed, this thread can be discoverable.
Last edited by Victor Hong on December 1st, 2019, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#6 Post by PeterH » December 1st, 2019, 4:20 pm

I hope whoever got the wine really appreciates it.
UPS would undoubtedly deny the claim even if it was a vase, blaming the packaging. Probably the same if the wine were shipped legally, i.e., from a registered seller.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#7 Post by Victor Hong » December 1st, 2019, 4:23 pm

You cannot insure a good which does not exist. A claim is even less valid.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#8 Post by Nola Palomar » December 1st, 2019, 4:25 pm

Nope, count it as an early gift you enjoyed virtually, then forget it!!
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#9 Post by Craig G » December 1st, 2019, 4:43 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:20 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:18 pm
From that message, it will be interesting to hear what UPS says. It sounds like someone stole the contents, and then got rid of the packaging. So, assuming they are not claiming they purposely destroyed the package because it was wine, what evidence is there that the contents wasn't a vase? Seems like it might be a $400 insurance claim.
Be careful. A written representation which is counterfactual and intentional can be perilous. Indeed, this thread can be discoverable.
You never know when there might be whistleblowers around, too!

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#10 Post by Alan Rath » December 1st, 2019, 4:46 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:20 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:18 pm
From that message, it will be interesting to hear what UPS says. It sounds like someone stole the contents, and then got rid of the packaging. So, assuming they are not claiming they purposely destroyed the package because it was wine, what evidence is there that the contents wasn't a vase? Seems like it might be a $400 insurance claim.
Be careful. A written representation which is counterfactual and intentional can be perilous. Indeed, this thread can be discoverable.
What does your moral compass say about a UPS employee stealing wine and covering his tracks, vs. an individual attempting to exist within the corruptive framework of the 21st amendment? neener
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#11 Post by NED VALOIS » December 1st, 2019, 8:18 pm

Not !

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#12 Post by S. Stevenson » December 1st, 2019, 9:25 pm

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#13 Post by Victor Hong » December 2nd, 2019, 3:31 am

Indeed, if the US Post Office were involved, the insurance claimant for lost "wine" could be chargeable with a False Claims Act violation (qui tam).
Even the cheapest person would not enjoy the taxpayer-provided housing, clothing, and food in exchange for $400.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#14 Post by David Glasser » December 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am

Has anyone ever been sent to jail for shipping a case or less of wine via the USPS?

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#15 Post by Alan Rath » December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am

The paranoia is strong with this thread. UPS isn't going after anyone beyond confiscating and destroying the wine. The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#16 Post by Markus S » December 2nd, 2019, 11:47 am

Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The paranoia is strong with this thread. UPS isn't going after anyone beyond confiscating and destroying the wine. The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Not sure about this. Just read in my local paper about the government going after and convicting someone of defrauding $1300 from welfare benefits they shouldn't have received. To put it in perspective, that's only 2 of these bottles!
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#17 Post by Victor Hong » December 2nd, 2019, 2:15 pm

Markus S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:47 am
Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The paranoia is strong with this thread. UPS isn't going after anyone beyond confiscating and destroying the wine. The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Not sure about this. Just read in my local paper about the government going after and convicting someone of defrauding $1300 from welfare benefits they shouldn't have received. To put it in perspective, that's only 2 of these bottles!
Wholesalers would have the private economic incentive to push for "make-an-example" public enforcement. My understanding is the some delivery services have recently sent cease-and-desist letters to suspected unlicensed senders.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#18 Post by Alan Rath » December 2nd, 2019, 3:08 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 2:15 pm
My understanding is the some delivery services have recently sent cease-and-desist letters to suspected unlicensed senders.
That's somewhat different than "taxpayer-provided housing, clothing, and food", wouldn't you say? ;)

About the worst that can happen to an individual shipping a bottle or two of wine is the shipper rejecting it before it gets very far, or destroying it later on. But frankly, once it's left the origin drop off, my experience is that it's smooth sailing. Worst case, I can imagine a shipper blacklisting someone if they get caught more than once or twice.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#19 Post by Nola Palomar » December 2nd, 2019, 3:13 pm

David Glasser wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am
Has anyone ever been sent to jail for shipping a case or less of wine via the USPS?
I have never shipped wine or olive oil via USPS because you cannot ship liquids. It’s either UPS or Fed Ex.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#20 Post by David Glasser » December 2nd, 2019, 3:23 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 3:13 pm
David Glasser wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am
Has anyone ever been sent to jail for shipping a case or less of wine via the USPS?
I have never shipped wine or olive oil via USPS because you cannot ship liquids. It’s either UPS or Fed Ex.
Interesting Nola. I never realized that all liquids were prohibited from shipping via USPS.

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#21 Post by Nola Palomar » December 2nd, 2019, 3:27 pm

David Glasser wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 3:23 pm
Nola Palomar wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 3:13 pm
David Glasser wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am
Has anyone ever been sent to jail for shipping a case or less of wine via the USPS?
I have never shipped wine or olive oil via USPS because you cannot ship liquids. It’s either UPS or Fed Ex.
Interesting Nola. I never realized that all liquids were prohibited from shipping via USPS.

When you go in to drop off a package they ask you if it contains liquids... Perhaps I am mistaken but that’s always been my go to.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#22 Post by Gabe Berk » December 2nd, 2019, 3:31 pm


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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#23 Post by Victor Hong » December 2nd, 2019, 4:42 pm

All the delivery companies ask if liquid or hazardous contents.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#24 Post by Nathan Smyth » December 2nd, 2019, 4:56 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Depends on who you are.

If you're the type who poses an existential threat to Bidness As Usual Inc, then the state & the feds will throw everything plus the kitchen sink at you.

And if they miss with the kitchen sink, then they'll walk over and pick the kitchen sink back up and keep throwing it at you until they smash your skull to smithereens.

[I don't know why I went to the trouble of typing this - anyone who bothered to glance at the headlines in the news everyday would be painfully aware of these unspeakably sordid aspects of our dilemma.]

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#25 Post by Victor Hong » December 2nd, 2019, 5:02 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 4:56 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Depends on who you are.

If you're the type who poses an existential threat to Bidness As Usual Inc, then the state & the feds will throw everything plus the kitchen sink at you.

And if they miss with the kitchen sink, then they'll walk over and pick the kitchen sink back up and keep throwing it at you until they smash your skull to smithereens.

[I don't know why I went to the trouble of typing this - anyone who bothered to glance at the headlines in the news everyday would be painfully aware of these unspeakably sordid aspects of our dilemma.]
My trust in regulatory authorities has significantly waned, during the last few years and associated, embroiled dealings. Their primary concerns are self-preservation and self-validation, not consumer or taxpayer protection.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#26 Post by Chuck Miller » December 2nd, 2019, 10:14 pm

Nola, it is illegal to use USPS to ship alcohol. Other liquids like olive oil are legal AKAIK, but you must declare it as a liquid, have it properly packaged, and probably waive damages if broken.
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#27 Post by Nola Palomar » December 3rd, 2019, 5:49 am

Chuck Miller wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 10:14 pm
Nola, it is illegal to use USPS to ship alcohol. Other liquids like olive oil are legal AKAIK, but you must declare it as a liquid, have it properly packaged, and probably waive damages if broken.
Awesome, good to know. Thanks for the clarity!!
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#28 Post by David Glasser » December 3rd, 2019, 7:55 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 4:56 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Depends on who you are.

If you're the type who poses an existential threat to Bidness As Usual Inc, then the state & the feds will throw everything plus the kitchen sink at you.

And if they miss with the kitchen sink, then they'll walk over and pick the kitchen sink back up and keep throwing it at you until they smash your skull to smithereens.

[I don't know why I went to the trouble of typing this - anyone who bothered to glance at the headlines in the news everyday would be painfully aware of these unspeakably sordid aspects of our dilemma.]
An extra heavy-duty tinfoil helmet can protect against that.

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#29 Post by Nathan Smyth » December 4th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 5:02 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 4:56 pm
Alan Rath wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am
The state and feds are sure as hell not going to waste their time tracking down someone who shipped a bottle of wine.
Depends on who you are.

If you're the type who poses an existential threat to Bidness As Usual Inc, then the state & the feds will throw everything plus the kitchen sink at you.

And if they miss with the kitchen sink, then they'll walk over and pick the kitchen sink back up and keep throwing it at you until they smash your skull to smithereens.

[I don't know why I went to the trouble of typing this - anyone who bothered to glance at the headlines in the news everyday would be painfully aware of these unspeakably sordid aspects of our dilemma.]
My trust in regulatory authorities has significantly waned, during the last few years and associated, embroiled dealings. Their primary concerns are self-preservation and self-validation, not consumer or taxpayer protection.
The regulatory state is the Praetorian Guard of the billionaires, and exists solely to ensure that the rest of us remain serfs & slaves forever.

As above, if Bidness As Usual Inc senses that you, as an uppity serf or slave, pose an existential threat to bidness as usual, then woe be unto you.

You might be able to duck beneath that airborne kitchen sink the first few times they throw it at you, but it will take an herculean effort to dodge it forever.

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#30 Post by Al Osterheld » December 4th, 2019, 9:13 pm

Maybe several layers of extra heavy-duty tinfoil?

-Al

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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#31 Post by Alan Rath » December 4th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
December 4th, 2019, 9:13 pm
Maybe several layers of extra heavy-duty tinfoil?

-Al
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Re: UPS story: To claim or not to claim?

#32 Post by Jason T » December 5th, 2019, 12:33 am

Alan Rath wrote:
December 4th, 2019, 9:30 pm
Al Osterheld wrote:
December 4th, 2019, 9:13 pm
Maybe several layers of extra heavy-duty tinfoil?

-Al
I’m thinking an upgrade to lead, at very least...
I think lead may be part of the problem, actually.
J@son Tr@ughber

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