Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

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larry schaffer
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Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#1 Post by larry schaffer » November 19th, 2019, 10:52 am

Was just reported by wine spectator. I'm certain they'll be plenty more details to come shortly.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#2 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 19th, 2019, 10:59 am

Wow, the big guys are on a tear, buying up everybody.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#3 Post by Karen Troisi » November 19th, 2019, 11:20 am

Here’s the info...
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#4 Post by Anton D » November 19th, 2019, 11:38 am

Well, that frees me up to drop Pahlmeyer.

I have a 'just say no to Gallo' policy.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#5 Post by Gabe Berk » November 19th, 2019, 11:46 am

As time goes on, I'm less and less shocked by any of these acquisitions. If the grapes are still grown by world class farmers, the wines still made by world class winemakers and the wine is still excellent, I don't really care what the parent company does. Case in point Siduri. Fruit source and wine making is still on point and are owned by a mega company. Hard work paid off the the Pahlmeyer's.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#6 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 19th, 2019, 11:50 am

Production will quadruple, no doubt. The Pahlmeyers did a great job establishing the brand, and it fits perfectly with Gallo's push to acquire luxury brands and move upmarket
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#7 Post by Jim Anderson » November 19th, 2019, 11:51 am

Met Jayson Pahlmeyer many years ago at a tasting for international importers for a variety of countries. It was a little slow and he told me the story of how his winery went from operating out of his bedroom to a big time operation in about 18 months time. I assume most, if not everyone here knows the story so I won't bother (it involves the movie Disclosure if you are not aware) going into it. This was 2001, maybe 2002 (it was the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl) and he seemed like a genuine guy who caught an incredible break and made the most of it.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#8 Post by Kris Patten » November 19th, 2019, 12:07 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:50 am
Production will quadruple, no doubt. The Pahlmeyers did a great job establishing the brand, and it fits perfectly with Gallo's push to acquire luxury brands and move upmarket
Doubtful for Pahlmeyer label, I'd expect an uptick in Jayson.

They didn't buy this to dilute it.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#9 Post by GregT » November 19th, 2019, 12:16 pm

First Orin Swift, now Pahlmeyer.

It's always the great ones that are eaten first.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#10 Post by mark rudner » November 19th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:51 am
Met Jayson Pahlmeyer many years ago at a tasting for international importers for a variety of countries. It was a little slow and he told me the story of how his winery went from operating out of his bedroom to a big time operation in about 18 months time. I assume most, if not everyone here knows the story so I won't bother (it involves the movie Disclosure if you are not aware) going into it. This was 2001, maybe 2002 (it was the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl) and he seemed like a genuine guy who caught an incredible break and made the most of it.
i met him years ago in the parking lot of mustards. his bentley had bullet holes in the drivers door and he said he had just returned from a trip to oakland....
then he told us they were just decals because his grandkids thought it was funny
used to love the wines

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#11 Post by John Davis » November 19th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Haven’t thought about those wines in years. I remember them fondly and can’t remember why I stopped drinking them.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#12 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 19th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 10:59 am
Wow, the big guys are on a tear, buying up everybody.
There are [meta-] Darwinian aspects to this behavior which are pretty damned horrifying.

Lately I've been reading a lot about the history of bidness, and I don't know what the hell these families are thinking when they sell out to Evil Inc, although often it seems to involve siblings fighting over an inheritance.

Or children who are so damned solipsistic that they refuse to step up to the plate and preserve the family bidness.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#13 Post by Chris Seiber » November 19th, 2019, 2:06 pm

I've actually had a few Pahlmeyer merlots in the last year or two. Definitely in the big, plush, well-oaked Napa style, but not off the deep end. Because they're merlot, the tariff is more moderate than buying the cab. They're good and fun when you have the mood and/or company for that kind of wine.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#14 Post by ClarkstonMark » November 19th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Jim Anderson wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:51 am
Met Jayson Pahlmeyer many years ago at a tasting for international importers for a variety of countries. It was a little slow and he told me the story of how his winery went from operating out of his bedroom to a big time operation in about 18 months time. I assume most, if not everyone here knows the story so I won't bother (it involves the movie Disclosure if you are not aware) going into it. This was 2001, maybe 2002 (it was the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl) and he seemed like a genuine guy who caught an incredible break and made the most of it.
that is sort of funny .... I had already stopped buying Pahlmeyer by 2002.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#15 Post by Anton D » November 19th, 2019, 2:21 pm

Gabe Berk wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:46 am
As time goes on, I'm less and less shocked by any of these acquisitions. If the grapes are still grown by world class farmers, the wines still made by world class winemakers and the wine is still excellent, I don't really care what the parent company does. Case in point Siduri. Fruit source and wine making is still on point and are owned by a mega company. Hard work paid off the the Pahlmeyer's.
I understand that viewpoint, as well.

I also dropped a winery membership because they destroyed some wetlands.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#16 Post by David Baum » November 19th, 2019, 2:37 pm

Jayson is a good friend of my brother in Hawaii. Guess he'll be buying dinner next time
Last edited by David Baum on November 19th, 2019, 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#17 Post by Brian Tuite » November 19th, 2019, 2:54 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:50 am
Production will quadruple, no doubt. The Pahlmeyers did a great job establishing the brand, and it fits perfectly with Gallo's push to acquire luxury brands and move upmarket
Nope, that won’t happen. Gallo is very smart.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#18 Post by Hank Victor » November 19th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Gallo aint that bad...
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#19 Post by J a y H a c k » November 19th, 2019, 3:57 pm

Anton D wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:38 am
Well, that frees me up to drop Pahlmeyer.

I have a 'just say no to Gallo' policy.
+1. I have a just say no to big conglomerates in the US policy, which means I have to add Pahlmeyer to Schrader, Outpost, Siduri and probably a few others. Pretty soon there will be nothing left for me to buy, which will make me much wealthier.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#20 Post by J a y H a c k » November 19th, 2019, 3:59 pm

I have no problem with the sale. The owner was entitled to do what he wanted with his winery. I am likewise entitled to do what I want with my money, and if that happens to be to shift my dollar allocations to Berserkerday participants, that's just fine. I had an excellent Sandler pinot last night that I got on Berserkerday that was not from Gallo!
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#21 Post by Kris Patten » November 19th, 2019, 4:28 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 3:57 pm
Anton D wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:38 am
Well, that frees me up to drop Pahlmeyer.

I have a 'just say no to Gallo' policy.
+1. I have a just say no to big conglomerates in the US policy, which means I have to add Pahlmeyer to Schrader, Outpost, Siduri and probably a few others. Pretty soon there will be nothing left for me to buy, which will make me much wealthier.
This seems capricious, Gallo is a very successful Family Owned company, as is Jackson Family Wines. A big conglomerate is Constellation or Diageo or Pernod Ricard or Bacardi. They have turned around and improved many brands like Louis M. Martini, while providing greater resources to many to help them, like Siduri.

You are right you get to choose where you spend your money, but to say you'll only spend it with less successful or historical families seems odd.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#22 Post by David Baum » November 19th, 2019, 4:58 pm

Dupe

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#23 Post by GregT » November 19th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Not to mention the big conglomerate French and European companies. I get the idea of helping out the little guy but if a big guy still made great wine, I wouldn't hesitate. My problem with Pahlmeyer is that in the 1990s they were spectacular. Then they got bigger and riper and changed some vineyards.

If I recall, he is another of the property owners who had a spat with the authorities about bulldozing some land without permits and doing it during rainy season.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#24 Post by PeterJ » November 19th, 2019, 5:14 pm

One of my son’s friends is a senior sales exec with Gallo’s wine division. He’s been smiling a lot the past few years. Hopefully Gallo has the sense to walk softly with regard to what gives these purchases the value they’re paying for.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#25 Post by Steve Anderson » November 19th, 2019, 5:24 pm

Interesting to see that Wayfarer was not included in the sale. Perhaps not a big enough brand yet for Gallo, or perhaps Jayson was selling his legacy portion of the business and leaving Wayfarer for Cleo to continue building her own.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#26 Post by B Thorne » November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am

I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#27 Post by Brandon R » November 20th, 2019, 10:41 am

Oh come off it, Brian Thorne. There's a big difference in the above folks saying they're not going to support the label anymore after being bought by a big corporate conglomerate versus saying they're upset the former owner made money. Nobody above has said the latter.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#28 Post by R M Kriete » November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am

B Thorne wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#29 Post by Kelly Walker » November 20th, 2019, 10:55 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Todd F r e n c h wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 10:59 am
Wow, the big guys are on a tear, buying up everybody.
There are [meta-] Darwinian aspects to this behavior which are pretty damned horrifying.

Lately I've been reading a lot about the history of bidness, and I don't know what the hell these families are thinking when they sell out to Evil Inc, although often it seems to involve siblings fighting over an inheritance.

Or children who are so damned solipsistic that they refuse to step up to the plate and preserve the family bidness.
Nathan, an interesting take. What makes Gallo Evil , Inc.? Did they do something truly evil or just the assumption that large corporations are inherently evil?
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#30 Post by J3ff S@g@n » November 20th, 2019, 11:19 am

Jim Anderson wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:51 am
Met Jayson Pahlmeyer many years ago at a tasting for international importers for a variety of countries. It was a little slow and he told me the story of how his winery went from operating out of his bedroom to a big time operation in about 18 months time. I assume most, if not everyone here knows the story so I won't bother (it involves the movie Disclosure if you are not aware) going into it. This was 2001, maybe 2002 (it was the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl) and he seemed like a genuine guy who caught an incredible break and made the most of it.

Was the deal pre arranged? Do we know the terms?

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#31 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Blake Gray's article on this deal, including some interesting observations on what drove it:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/11 ... -pahlmeyer
Last edited by Eric Lundblad on November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#32 Post by Anton D » November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm

R M Kriete wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am
B Thorne wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?
Not that at all.

I prefer to spend my own money supporting a more local winemaker/winery system.

I don't care how much money someone makes, I simply prefer to support smaller scale endeavors.

I also don't shop at WalMart, preferring more local businesses.

Do you have something against supporting locally owned or single owner companies?
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#33 Post by R M Kriete » November 20th, 2019, 12:19 pm

Anton D wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
R M Kriete wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am
B Thorne wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?
Do you have something against supporting locally owned or single owner companies?
Absolutely not! I support small locally owned companies AND larger companies. Workers at "big" companies need jobs just as much as those at smaller businesses. As long as the product is made responsibly and is of high quality, I'm going to give BOTH my $$.

I've spoken with both Adam Lee and Greg Brewer. Both of them have been more than complimentary about the support that Jackson Family have given them. I bought & enjoyed their wines when they were small. I enjoy them now, even as part of Jackson Family. So why should I stop buying them just because they are now part of a large company?

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#34 Post by Josh Grossman » November 20th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Anton D wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
R M Kriete wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am
B Thorne wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?
Not that at all.

I prefer to spend my own money supporting a more local winemaker/winery system.

I don't care how much money someone makes, I simply prefer to support smaller scale endeavors.

I also don't shop at WalMart, preferring more local businesses.

Do you have something against supporting locally owned or single owner companies?
Yep, I've never been in a WalMart. I dropped Amazon Prime recently too--but it was more because how crappy they are to employees. Also Facebook. It was more for not being better, than being big (still like Costco). Dropped Outpost and Rhys this year. I still get more wine offers that I want to buy than I can while trying to be just a bit altruistic with my dollars. Gallo is probably better than LVMH though.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#35 Post by Kelly Walker » November 20th, 2019, 12:29 pm

Anton D wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
R M Kriete wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am
B Thorne wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I hate when people make money!

*old man screams at cloud*
This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?
Not that at all.

I prefer to spend my own money supporting a more local winemaker/winery system.

I don't care how much money someone makes, I simply prefer to support smaller scale endeavors.

I also don't shop at WalMart, preferring more local businesses.

Do you have something against supporting locally owned or single owner companies?
Anton, how does Gallo’s purchase make Palmeyer any less local or larger scale? Its just ownership. If they ramp up production at the cost of quality, sure, bail on them. Maybe Palmeyer needed Gallo to move forward.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#36 Post by Josh Grossman » November 20th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:29 pm
Anton D wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
R M Kriete wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:46 am


This. Sentiment of some seems to be, "I want you (winery) to be successful and make money, just not TOO successful and make TOO much money....as defined by me!"

What's wrong with....if you like the wines when they were "small", and you still like them when they get big/or are bought by a bigger company, you still buy them?
Not that at all.

I prefer to spend my own money supporting a more local winemaker/winery system.

I don't care how much money someone makes, I simply prefer to support smaller scale endeavors.

I also don't shop at WalMart, preferring more local businesses.

Do you have something against supporting locally owned or single owner companies?
Anton, how does Gallo’s purchase make Palmeyer any less local or larger scale? Its just ownership. If they ramp up production at the cost of quality, sure, bail on them. Maybe Palmeyer needed Gallo to move forward.
Yes, because Gallo surely has the expertise to make world class (box) wine [snort.gif]

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#37 Post by GregT » November 20th, 2019, 2:33 pm

Eric Lundblad wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
Blake Gray's article on this deal, including some interesting observations on what drove it:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/11 ... -pahlmeyer
Interesting that they bought the name and not the vineyards. It makes sense if the point is to sell brands without relation to the sources of the grapes. But it doesn't seem logical for this particular purchase. A brand like the Prisoner or Meiomi has a big following and a name recognized by many people. Pahlmeyer is much smaller and in spite of the fact that the wines were "only" $150, they're not supermarket wines and they're way out of range for most people who aren't wine fanatics. The people who do know the name are likely to know that it's just a brand now, and one assumes they would therefore be less likely to shell out the $150.

As far as whether it's owned by Gallo or a smaller player, that doesn't need to be relevant. If they cared to, Gallo can certainly hire the same talent that Colgin or Harlan or Pahlmeyer can. I don't know how Gallo does it, but people who've been bought have told me that Jackson often leaves them alone to make wine but helps out with investment, marketing, and distribution.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#38 Post by David Baum » November 20th, 2019, 4:17 pm

J3ff S@g@n wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 11:19 am
Jim Anderson wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 11:51 am
Met Jayson Pahlmeyer many years ago at a tasting for international importers for a variety of countries. It was a little slow and he told me the story of how his winery went from operating out of his bedroom to a big time operation in about 18 months time. I assume most, if not everyone here knows the story so I won't bother (it involves the movie Disclosure if you are not aware) going into it. This was 2001, maybe 2002 (it was the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl) and he seemed like a genuine guy who caught an incredible break and made the most of it.

Was the deal pre arranged? Do we know the terms?
Been in the works for a while. Brother said he's been waiting on the deal to close at least a year.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#39 Post by Kris Patten » November 20th, 2019, 6:18 pm

I would hazard a guess the 4 year contract on the Pahlmeyer vineyard is a backup if they can't replicate quality off Stagecoach.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#40 Post by Karl K » November 21st, 2019, 6:55 pm

I understand the Pahlmeyer vineyard is in Atlas Peak. Is it near Stagecoach?
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#41 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 21st, 2019, 9:17 pm

Karl K wrote:
November 21st, 2019, 6:55 pm
I understand the Pahlmeyer vineyard is in Atlas Peak. Is it near Stagecoach?
They're roughly the same distance, on either side, of Atlas Peak. Their position, relative to everything else (i.e. weather influences), isn't identical, but seem moderately similar.

The soils aren't the same either, but they share similar characteristics...esp that they're both extremely rocky soils...and that they have a not too dissimilar soil chemistry.

I could see Gallo look at the two vineyards and think that they could make Stagecoach work in a Pahlmeyer like way, but want a backup position (several year contract for pahlmeyer fruit) to give them some room to work out the details.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#42 Post by John Glas » November 22nd, 2019, 4:25 pm

Don't hate Pahlmeyer but for me I would rather buy Anderson's Conn Valley across the board for less money.

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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#43 Post by Bryan Price » November 22nd, 2019, 9:59 pm

GregT wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 2:33 pm
Eric Lundblad wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:01 pm
Blake Gray's article on this deal, including some interesting observations on what drove it:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/11 ... -pahlmeyer
Interesting that they bought the name and not the vineyards. It makes sense if the point is to sell brands without relation to the sources of the grapes. But it doesn't seem logical for this particular purchase. A brand like the Prisoner or Meiomi has a big following and a name recognized by many people. Pahlmeyer is much smaller and in spite of the fact that the wines were "only" $150, they're not supermarket wines and they're way out of range for most people who aren't wine fanatics. The people who do know the name are likely to know that it's just a brand now, and one assumes they would therefore be less likely to shell out the $150.

As far as whether it's owned by Gallo or a smaller player, that doesn't need to be relevant. If they cared to, Gallo can certainly hire the same talent that Colgin or Harlan or Pahlmeyer can. I don't know how Gallo does it, but people who've been bought have told me that Jackson often leaves them alone to make wine but helps out with investment, marketing, and distribution.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#44 Post by Steve Gautier » November 24th, 2019, 6:07 pm

Had a wonderful ‘93 Proprietary Red last night
  • 1993 Pahlmeyer Proprietary Red - USA, California, Napa Valley (11/24/2019)
    Decanted for an hour and drank over the next hour. Very similar on initial decant and two hours later. Color is deep and rich and belies it’s age. Palate is classic aged Bordeaux blend that would seem French if served blind. Cherry and plum behind pencil shaving with leather and some earth.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#45 Post by Anton D » December 2nd, 2019, 6:52 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:29 pm


Anton, how does Gallo’s purchase make Palmeyer any less local or larger scale? Its just ownership. If they ramp up production at the cost of quality, sure, bail on them. Maybe Palmeyer needed Gallo to move forward.
As GregT said..."Interesting that they bought the name and not the vineyards."

If Gallo buys MacDonald, but not the vineyard, I'd be out, as well.

Same for several others.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#46 Post by Wes Barton » December 2nd, 2019, 7:57 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:55 am
Nathan, an interesting take. What makes Gallo Evil , Inc.? Did they do something truly evil or just the assumption that large corporations are inherently evil?
They've been one of the major players being the anti-wine shipping lobby.
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Re: Gallo Purchases Pahlmeyer

#47 Post by Jason T » December 2nd, 2019, 8:10 pm

Wes Barton wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 7:57 pm
Kelly Walker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 10:55 am
Nathan, an interesting take. What makes Gallo Evil , Inc.? Did they do something truly evil or just the assumption that large corporations are inherently evil?
They've been one of the major players being the anti-wine shipping lobby.
That certainly qualifies as evil.
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