$6500 for this poxed Monty?

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B. Buzzini
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$6500 for this poxed Monty?

#1 Post by B. Buzzini » November 16th, 2019, 10:40 am

WOW...look at that beautiful brown ox color! [shock.gif] A real shame if that's the true color?

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Item/72 ... Montrachet
Last edited by B. Buzzini on November 18th, 2019, 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#2 Post by AlexS » November 16th, 2019, 10:48 am

Oof
s t e w @ r t

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#3 Post by Richard Albert » November 16th, 2019, 10:56 am

The shame is on them if that photo is accurate.
Winebid just lost more cred for what? Could it be the status of offering a DRC, their commi$$ion, or is it the owner's personal wine?
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#4 Post by Josh Grossman » November 16th, 2019, 11:00 am

Thought the same thing looking at these: https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Items/Ramonet/33811

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#5 Post by Dale Bowers » November 16th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Maybe they are turning into Pinots [wow.gif]
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » November 16th, 2019, 12:03 pm

Richard Albert wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 10:56 am
The shame is on them if that photo is accurate.
Winebid just lost more cred for what? Could it be the status of offering a DRC, their commi$$ion, or is it the owner's personal wine?
LOL shame on them either way! Either they are peddling a flawed bottle at a sky-high price or they have an incompetent photographer!
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#7 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 16th, 2019, 12:49 pm

an incompetent photographer
I was browsing through some of the 360-degree pictures, and my immediate reaction was that they've got a slow "turntable" in front of an automatically-clicking camera, with some software which allows them to enter* the relevant data on the bottle, and as the turntable rotates, the auto-clicked pictures are loaded directly into a database.

I can't imagine an human-being having the patience necessary to take that many pictures of that many bottles - arguably it would be more torturous than Charlie Bucket's father screwing the caps on the toothpaste tubes at the toothpaste factory.

Also, if they're doing it correctly, then they're using very low-temperature/low-wattage bulbs for the lighting, and that could contribute to the general sense of lethargy & decrepitude in the color tones.

*If it's seriously sophisticated, then the software would be capable of reading the label and entering the data itself, although I imagine that would still cost a pretty penny in 2019 [whereas it would likely be a commodity item by 2030].

PS: The Buzz Man is Mr Photography for this board - maybe he could figure out what's going on - he could try some low-light/low-temperature photography in his cellar and see what the results look like.

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#8 Post by alan weinberg » November 16th, 2019, 12:49 pm

Buzz is just trying to scare off competitive bidders.

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#9 Post by D. HEIN » November 16th, 2019, 1:30 pm

There they go again!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=158582

Where's Chet K.?
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#10 Post by B. Buzzini » November 16th, 2019, 2:48 pm

WB needs to take the pics with a light behind bottles like Spectrum does? Btw...is that really a true representation of color iyo?

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#11 Post by RichardFlack » November 16th, 2019, 3:12 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 12:49 pm
an incompetent photographer
I was browsing through some of the 360-degree pictures, and my immediate reaction was that they've got a slow "turntable" in front of an automatically-clicking camera, with some software which allows them to enter* the relevant data on the bottle, and as the turntable rotates, the auto-clicked pictures are loaded directly into a database.

I can't imagine an human-being having the patience necessary to take that many pictures of that many bottles - arguably it would be more torturous than Charlie Bucket's father screwing the caps on the toothpaste tubes at the toothpaste factory.

Also, if they're doing it correctly, then they're using very low-temperature/low-wattage bulbs for the lighting, and that could contribute to the general sense of lethargy & decrepitude in the color tones.

*If it's seriously sophisticated, then the software would be capable of reading the label and entering the data itself, although I imagine that would still cost a pretty penny in 2019 [whereas it would likely be a commodity item by 2030].

PS: The Buzz Man is Mr Photography for this board - maybe he could figure out what's going on - he could try some low-light/low-temperature photography in his cellar and see what the results look like.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#12 Post by Curtis Chen » November 16th, 2019, 3:29 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 12:49 pm
I was browsing through some of the 360-degree pictures, and my immediate reaction was that they've got a slow "turntable" in front of an automatically-clicking camera, with some software which allows them to enter* the relevant data on the bottle, and as the turntable rotates, the auto-clicked pictures are loaded directly into a database.

I can't imagine an human-being having the patience necessary to take that many pictures of that many bottles - arguably it would be more torturous than Charlie Bucket's father screwing the caps on the toothpaste tubes at the toothpaste factory.

Also, if they're doing it correctly, then they're using very low-temperature/low-wattage bulbs for the lighting, and that could contribute to the general sense of lethargy & decrepitude in the color tones.

*If it's seriously sophisticated, then the software would be capable of reading the label and entering the data itself, although I imagine that would still cost a pretty penny in 2019 [whereas it would likely be a commodity item by 2030].

PS: The Buzz Man is Mr Photography for this board - maybe he could figure out what's going on - he could try some low-light/low-temperature photography in his cellar and see what the results look like.
Holy. A+ reference. [cheers.gif]

Also, just a god awful bottle.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#13 Post by Markus S » November 16th, 2019, 6:56 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 11:00 am
Thought the same thing looking at these: https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Items/Ramonet/33811
mmm, cider!
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#14 Post by R. Smith » November 16th, 2019, 7:15 pm

This one is downright terrifying! Image
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#15 Post by William Kelley » November 17th, 2019, 4:59 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 11:00 am
Thought the same thing looking at these: https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Items/Ramonet/33811
The 1982 and 1985 Bienvenues with the European label actually looks pretty correct...
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#16 Post by RMann » November 17th, 2019, 11:49 am

Hi all, I appreciate how informed and knowledgeable you are. We share your passion for vintage wine and for great wine buying and selling experiences.

I hope the following facts and clarifications will address any questions you might have:

* For those of you I haven't interacted with yet, I'm the relatively new leader of WineBid. You all are welcome to direct message me with questions, comments or suggestions. I can't do personal customer service for every person, but glad to help where I can.
* With regard to the various wines highlighted in this thread: we all understand vintage wines are a delicate business, and vintage white wines can be even more delicate and subjective than reds. Some seemingly "off color" wines can be amazing and some seemingly perfect color wines can be terrible. White Burgundies can age more gracefully than CA whites, for example. But these are some very unique wines that came as part of larger collections from very reputable collectors. We've inspected them carefully, provided notes and accurate photos. We all know there are no guarantees, but we aim to provide the best information possible for buyers to make informed decisions. Where's the shame in that?
* A little more detail on our company and inspection processes- we are a small company of 30 hardworking, real, regular folks- not some big company like Amazon. Our team is passionate and focused on wine, ecommerce, and providing a great service for all of you to buy and sell wine. Our customer service team actually picks up the phone when you call and tries to respond to every email within the day. We really care about providing a great experience, and yes, we take it personally!
* As an auction platform, we take inspection, authentication, information and trust very seriously. We are proud to provide some of the most detailed inspection and provenance notes, as well as the best photography in the wine business. We invest and spend a lot every year in our inspection and authentication processes, with 5 WSET-certified inspectors, as well as proprietary processes, databases and technologies to hand inspect, authenticate and help set the reserve price on every bottle. We're not trying to "trick" anyone. In fact, it's exactly the opposite- we try to document everything as-is and suggest appropriate market pricing. We don't set the price, the market does. It's up to you all and the rest of the buyers to decide what to bid on or not.
* We have a photography team that takes high-res shots of every bottle and works very hard at providing the most accurate photos of color and quality. I've had many customers tell me directly that we have the best photography in the business and it's appreciated. Some other auctions don't even offer individual photos of wines - they may only offer stock photos or none at all. We provide the best photos we can, so there are no surprises and bidders can decide for themselves.
* Regarding the 360 bottleshot question, we recently invested in a machine and process that takes 360 photos. We're glad you're enjoying the ability to rotate, zoom, and inspect at all angles.

I hope this helps clarify the comments and questions above. We greatly appreciate the Berserker community. Looking forward to hearing what great wines you serve at your holiday tables. Happy tasting and sharing!

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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#17 Post by Victor Hong » November 17th, 2019, 12:02 pm

Hunting whether bottles or bonds, simply assess all available risk, reward, and price information dispassionately, and then either bid or pass.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#18 Post by B. Buzzini » November 17th, 2019, 1:04 pm

"* We have a photography team that takes high-res shots of every bottle and works very hard at providing the most accurate photos of color and quality."

So it is confirmed...that is the color. [shock.gif]
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#19 Post by m. ristev » November 17th, 2019, 1:27 pm

i remember about 4 years ago a friend reported this wine was oxidized, which was surprising considering the bottle he sampled had not travelled far outside of the region.

at any rate, i would be shocked if a full fledged auction house would accept a bottle with this color on consignment.

just took a look at cellartracker and there are 6 notes of this wine being advanced/oxidized...
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#20 Post by billnanson » November 17th, 2019, 2:18 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 10:40 am
WOW...look at that beautiful brown ox color! [shock.gif] A real shame if that's the true color?

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Item/72 ... Montrachet
Greatest white I ever tasted on release. Shame how most ended up...
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#21 Post by Victor Hong » November 17th, 2019, 3:05 pm

On the other hand, watch this food fight.

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Item/72 ... eau-Nicole
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#22 Post by Yao C » November 17th, 2019, 3:23 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 12:02 pm
Hunting whether bottles or bonds, simply assess all available risk, reward, and price information dispassionately, and then either bid or pass.
I think when an auction house offers something to consumers they implicitly put their stamp on it with respect to provenance, bottle condition, etc. That seems a very different situation compared to counterparties trading in the financial markets. Especially when those in the know commonly associate brown bottles with high premox risk
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#23 Post by JLee » November 17th, 2019, 7:07 pm

At least they provide a picture. My understanding was many retailers don't offer refunds on premoxed bottles, in which case if you don't ask for a visual inspection or a picture you're out of luck.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#24 Post by Victor Hong » November 17th, 2019, 7:39 pm

JLee wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 7:07 pm
At least they provide a picture. My understanding was many retailers don't offer refunds on premoxed bottles, in which case if you don't ask for a visual inspection or a picture you're out of luck.
That was my point above. Transparency is super-senior to perfection. (For this thread, color is sometimes related to transparency. [wow.gif] )
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#25 Post by François Audouze » November 21st, 2019, 8:03 am

I have been intrigued by this discussion and I went in my cellar to see the color of my Montrachet 2002.
here are the pictures :

Image

Image

Image

the first picture taken in my cellar is very dark. The second with more light is better but not so sexy and the third shows the neck which shows a clear wine.
When I have the bottle in hand, I see no problem. When it is vertical, it becomes darker.

I think that the glass used is not crital clear and catches the light to give the impression of a brown wine.
My opinion is that the wine has not any problem and that the glass creates a very bad impression. Is the glass made to protect against light ? I do not know and I will ask the domain.

I try to make good photos, but the result is not so good.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#26 Post by François Audouze » November 21st, 2019, 4:11 pm

I have seen Aubert de Villaine tonight and he has confirmed that the glass is not clear and designed to protect against light.
It is what Cristal Roederer makes, not with the glass but with a yellow foil to protect from light.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#27 Post by Kris Patten » November 21st, 2019, 4:41 pm

François Audouze wrote:
November 21st, 2019, 4:11 pm
I have seen Aubert de Villaine tonight and he has confirmed that the glass is not clear and designed to protect against light.
It is what Cristal Roederer makes, not with the glass but with a yellow foil to protect from light.
Nice to have AdV on speed dial/Facetime on a whim!

Curious if this was opened and the picture is just a reflection of the glass and it was a true representation of DRC Montrachet if everyone would rescind their criticism.

Granted if I was trying to sell a $6500 bottle I'd be damn sure the pic was representative.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#28 Post by François Audouze » November 22nd, 2019, 7:02 am

There was yesterday the dinner of the "académie du vin de France" and I met Aubert de Villaine. I took the opportunity to ask him.

You have seen my pictures. The dark one looks like the one which has initiated this discussion.
But when you have the bottles in hand, changing the direction of the light, the impression is largely better and I have no worry for the two bottles on the pictures that I made, pictures which could lead to the same doubts as exposed in this discussion.
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Re: $6500 for this poxed Monty?

#29 Post by B. Buzzini » September 15th, 2020, 11:35 am

Hmmmm? I'll take the 2014...and it's cheaper! [highfive.gif]

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Items/D ... et/9500890
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