TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco - its all about BALANCE

#101 Post by eweininger »

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote: April 10th, 2020, 12:48 pm
Sh@n A wrote: March 6th, 2020, 8:48 pm Anyone have the 2016 Vietti Castiglione to compare against the Produtorri? Similarish price point (Vietti seems to be coming mid-$40s).

Or a general comment on how the Produtorri will stack up against normales from the '16 vintage?
Bump on this question. I've stocked up on the '16 Produttori, but wondering if I should buy more or go in for a case of the '16 Vietti Castiglione?
I picked up a few bottles of the Vietti the other day. Costs $54 locally. Certainly a different expression than the Produttori, with a little more density and a darker fruit profile, but I've enjoyed it enough in the past to grab a few 16s without bothering to open one. I assume that the serious Piedmont folks here are fans (at the given the price point), but will, of course, be curious to see what they have to say.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco - its all about BALANCE

#102 Post by Martin Zwick »

Had this Barbaresco in the last 2 days and I really recommend to open a bottle in the coming days, as it is such open and a great pleasure to drink. Why wait, I am not 20 anymore. haha

Besides the classic flavors of tar, roses, strawberry and licorice, the wine has a wonderful balance&grace.

Anyway one of the best value in Piedmont for 30€ in Germany.

93-94/100

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Last edited by Martin Zwick on May 21st, 2020, 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco - its all about BALANCE

#103 Post by Sh@n A »

eweininger wrote: April 10th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote: April 10th, 2020, 12:48 pm
Sh@n A wrote: March 6th, 2020, 8:48 pm Anyone have the 2016 Vietti Castiglione to compare against the Produtorri? Similarish price point (Vietti seems to be coming mid-$40s).

Or a general comment on how the Produtorri will stack up against normales from the '16 vintage?
Bump on this question. I've stocked up on the '16 Produttori, but wondering if I should buy more or go in for a case of the '16 Vietti Castiglione?
I picked up a few bottles of the Vietti the other day. Costs $54 locally. Certainly a different expression than the Produttori, with a little more density and a darker fruit profile, but I've enjoyed it enough in the past to grab a few 16s without bothering to open one. I assume that the serious Piedmont folks here are fans (at the given the price point), but will, of course, be curious to see what they have to say.
I tried the Vietti and agree with your comments. That is the one I am going to cellar. Excellent value on the Vietti as well (I paid a little less than 50)
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#104 Post by Martin Zwick »

P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#105 Post by F.Daner »

I had the 12 this weekend and it really was in a great spot. I expect to leave the 16's alone for a few years. What a vintage for Piedmont !
Martin Zwick wrote: January 12th, 2021, 2:19 am P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#106 Post by L. Bryant »

So I stocked up on the 2015 normales and my cellar is already bulging. I've not yet been able to taste the vintages side-by-side and have no experience to know how they'd compare "at peak", but can anyone attest as to whether the 16's are THAT much better/special than 2015?
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#107 Post by Otto Forsberg »

L. Bryant wrote: January 12th, 2021, 5:44 pm So I stocked up on the 2015 normales and my cellar is already bulging. I've not yet been able to taste the vintages side-by-side and have no experience to know how they'd compare "at peak", but can anyone attest as to whether the 16's are THAT much better/special than 2015?
I have, but the 2015 was corked, so not much data on that.

However, in that tasting 2016 was simply outstanding. Seemed to be the unanimous favorite of the younger PdBs we had there. The hype is real.

I haven't tasted many Langhe reds where I'd say 2015 would be more ageworthy than 2016. Most wines feel like the 2016s are still going to be mere babies by the time the 2015s are at peak. As far as I've tasted, I haven't been particularly fond of 2015 and not have bought really any, preferring to taste them rather than buy them.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#108 Post by L. Bryant »

Otto Forsberg wrote: January 13th, 2021, 2:33 pm
L. Bryant wrote: January 12th, 2021, 5:44 pm So I stocked up on the 2015 normales and my cellar is already bulging. I've not yet been able to taste the vintages side-by-side and have no experience to know how they'd compare "at peak", but can anyone attest as to whether the 16's are THAT much better/special than 2015?
I have, but the 2015 was corked, so not much data on that.

However, in that tasting 2016 was simply outstanding. Seemed to be the unanimous favorite of the younger PdBs we had there. The hype is real.

I haven't tasted many Langhe reds where I'd say 2015 would be more ageworthy than 2016. Most wines feel like the 2016s are still going to be mere babies by the time the 2015s are at peak. As far as I've tasted, I haven't been particularly fond of 2015 and not have bought really any, preferring to taste them rather than buy them.
Thanks and noted! I saw your vertical notes and was also bummed that the 15 was corked :/
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#109 Post by Fred Davis »

Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#110 Post by Max S. »

Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#111 Post by Fred Davis »

Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am
Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
Looks like a nice buy now!

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#112 Post by Dennis Atick »

Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am
Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
This was the one deal that wine.com was killing on last year when you factor in the coupons. I was stocking up at sub $30. [cheers.gif]
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#113 Post by Max S. »

Dennis Atick wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:26 am
Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am
Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
This was the one deal that wine.com was killing on last year when you factor in the coupons. I was stocking up at sub $30. [cheers.gif]
Son of a gun. I might try wine.com free shipping this year. I did WineLibrary last year which was great, but the coupons for wine.com seem to be what makes it killer.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#114 Post by Fred Davis »

Dennis Atick wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:26 am
Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am
Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
This was the one deal that wine.com was killing on last year when you factor in the coupons. I was stocking up at sub $30. [cheers.gif]
I tried to do that but on the east coast the price was higher than the west coast so i held off. then the wine disappeared!

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#115 Post by Todd F r e n c h »

Dennis Atick wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:26 am
Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am
Fred Davis wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:51 am Not sure if this is realistic, but hoping to one day backfill the 2016 at a reasonable price.
I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
This was the one deal that wine.com was killing on last year when you factor in the coupons. I was stocking up at sub $30. [cheers.gif]
To all those who can't find it for a great deal, stick around WB as Attick will be offering it on Commerce Corner in a few years, and he's a great seller [cheers.gif]
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#116 Post by Dennis Atick »

Todd F r e n c h wrote: January 19th, 2021, 7:52 am
Dennis Atick wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:26 am
Max S. wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:54 am

I really had to hunt to find it at $35/bottle
This was the one deal that wine.com was killing on last year when you factor in the coupons. I was stocking up at sub $30. [cheers.gif]
To all those who can't find it for a great deal, stick around WB as Attick will be offering it on Commerce Corner in a few years, and he's a great seller [cheers.gif]
LOL LOL
[highfive.gif]
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#117 Post by John Morris »

Bottle King in NJ, which had it for $35, has moved on to the 2017.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#118 Post by Jeff Vaughan »

I see that Morrell and Co. has the 2016 PdB Montestefano, pre-arrival, at $99. I didn't check on the other crus. I figured there would be an increase in price, but was not expecting them to be near $100. I hoping that my normal sources have them around $75, but we shall see. I will pass at $99.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#119 Post by Arv R »

Costco #471 has the 2016 normale for $36.

I passed, and honestly, have not liked how the 2010 is developing so far.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#120 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Arv R wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:18 pm Costco #471 has the 2016 normale for $36.

I passed, and honestly, have not liked how the 2010 is developing so far.
Not that 2010 and 2016 are remotely similar...
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#121 Post by Otto Forsberg »

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:20 pm Not that 2010 and 2016 are remotely similar...
This.

2016 is a thoroughbred classic vintage. Easily a Riserva vintage for PdB.
2010 was less successful in Barbaresco (compared to Barolo, which performed better that year) and PdB did not choose to bottle Riservas, instead blending all the Barbaresco-level wines together.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#122 Post by Bryce K »

OK, based on this thread and my desire to turn this year at least partially into a Year of Italian Wine, I bought four bottles. I'll break one open to get a sense of it, and it seems like the others need to sleep for a few years.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#123 Post by Todd F r e n c h »

Oh wow, these are gorgeous. Takes at least an hour to open up, but it's glorious, vibrant, floral. Reminds me of 2004 on release, before the hard-core shutdown. Amazing value, and (fortunately) plentiful in the marketplace
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#124 Post by Max S. »

When will the Riservas come out? Besides Morrell putting them on the market for $99.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#125 Post by R Roberts »

Max S. wrote: January 21st, 2021, 7:58 pm When will the Riservas come out? Besides Morrell putting them on the market for $99.
Historically I've bought them in late April. No idea if that's consistent year to year.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#126 Post by Will Clements »

1/2 case here. Bought one to try then another 6


Gripping tannins was an understatement.
I’ll open another in 5 years.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#127 Post by Ken Leiter »

R Roberts wrote: January 21st, 2021, 9:16 pm
Max S. wrote: January 21st, 2021, 7:58 pm When will the Riservas come out? Besides Morrell putting them on the market for $99.
Historically I've bought them in late April. No idea if that's consistent year to year.

I bought a ‘15 Riserva from wine.com last year on March 9, delivered two days later.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#128 Post by Antonio_G »

Will Clements wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 11:25 am 1/2 case here. Bought one to try then another 6


Gripping tannins was an understatement.
I’ll open another in 5 years.
My experience has been good but with some expected bottle variation. some bottles had softer tannins than others - same batch/order.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#129 Post by G. D y e r »

This is one of the things I wonder about with Produttori--how much variability is there within a vintage? The Torre is not mass produced, but there are multiple lots per vintage, with later lots known to be 'backblended' (in the best possible way) with Cru juice in years when Riservas are not bottled.

With bottle variation a know factor in ageworthy wines, lot variation adds another potential variable with Produttori.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#130 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

Max S. wrote: January 21st, 2021, 7:58 pm When will the Riservas come out? Besides Morrell putting them on the market for $99.
Zachy's has the 2016 Montestefano for $90 on preorder. Not sure when it will be in stock, but the pricing info is interesting. Note that this price is exactly double what they just closed out the 2015 Montestefano for in their recent sale.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#131 Post by Otto Forsberg »

G. D y e r wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 7:48 pm This is one of the things I wonder about with Produttori--how much variability is there within a vintage? The Torre is not mass produced
Depends on what you mean by mass production. After all, it's many hundreds of thousands of bottles in non-Riserva vintages.
but there are multiple lots per vintage, with later lots known to be 'backblended' (in the best possible way) with Cru juice in years when Riservas are not bottled.
Yes, in 2006. That's the only vintage where such thing happened. Otherwise the only difference between the lots is which bottis are used to fill the lot.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#132 Post by Joseph Grassa »

Martin Zwick wrote: January 12th, 2021, 2:19 am P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.
depressing. I was hoping to have a few more at their youthful peak. I had a few of them very early and was blown away. A few cases stashed along with some mags and 3L. I guess this next taste will help determine if I open any more over the next few years or let them all sit.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#133 Post by Joseph Grassa »

Bryce K wrote: January 21st, 2021, 9:00 am OK, based on this thread and my desire to turn this year at least partially into a Year of Italian Wine, I bought four bottles. I'll break one open to get a sense of it, and it seems like the others need to sleep for a few years.
Great idea! So much variety in Italian wine and even outside of the global grapes. I think an entire lifetime of experimenting with and learning of Italian wine, would still leave one with a youthfully exuberant curiosity.

Might not be the best representation on 16s right now though based on what Zwick just experienced. I am hoping to open one over the next month or 2 to see where it is at as well.
Martin Zwick wrote: January 12th, 2021, 2:19 am P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#134 Post by Daniel McIntosh »

Martin Zwick wrote: January 12th, 2021, 2:19 am P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.
Not my experience at all. Over the past year I've had four bottles of this and the last one, consumed last week was without a doubt the best. Hard to keep from opening these.

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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#135 Post by Martin Zwick »

Daniel McIntosh wrote: January 24th, 2021, 6:11 am
Martin Zwick wrote: January 12th, 2021, 2:19 am P.S.

I had a bottle at the week-end and I have to say it looks like that it is starting to shut down. Much better 1 year ago.
Not my experience at all. Over the past year I've had four bottles of this and the last one, consumed last week was without a doubt the best. Hard to keep from opening these.
Interesting, it looks like that I, not the wine, had a bad day.
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Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

#136 Post by OwenB »

I’ve been trying many 2016 Barolo and Barbaresco. My general view is to open them the first night and try a half glass. It will likely be tight and generally not that enjoyable unless it’s one of the few with a more open style like Scavino Prapo or Vajra Albe. Put a cork in it and in the fridge. On night two, or even night three, it will be very different, enjoyable, and not shut down.
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    Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

    #137 Post by T. Williams »

    From what I understand the 2017 vintage isn't nearly as strong as the 2016, but has anyone tried the 2017 PdB Barbaresco yet? Worth buying a 6er for earlier drinking or better to allocate fund elsewhere in Italy?
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    Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

    #138 Post by G. D y e r »

    Otto Forsberg wrote: January 24th, 2021, 2:01 am
    G. D y e r wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 7:48 pm This is one of the things I wonder about with Produttori--how much variability is there within a vintage? The Torre is not mass produced
    Depends on what you mean by mass production. After all, it's many hundreds of thousands of bottles in non-Riserva vintages.
    but there are multiple lots per vintage, with later lots known to be 'backblended' (in the best possible way) with Cru juice in years when Riservas are not bottled.
    Yes, in 2006. That's the only vintage where such thing happened. Otherwise the only difference between the lots is which bottis are used to fill the lot.
    20k cases is significant, but definitely is not mass production. That's more like 100k or 1M cases, in my view, where the winery is basically a factory with industrial sized tanks, giant fermenters, etc. That is definitely not the case.

    If the wine is bottled direct from botti, rather than mixed into a tank, that does introduce some small variation from botte to botte, though the question is what size is the typical sub-lot set by the botti. If a maximum botte size is around 10k L, that corresponds to around 1000 12 bottle cases. So that does imply minimum of tens of botti are bottled per vintage.

    Not a major concern at all, just a curiosity as to homogeneity and why tasters can have very different experiences with the same wine.
    Greg

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    Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

    #139 Post by Bryce K »

    I opened my initial bottle tonight and really enjoyed it - serious tannins, sure, but great flavor on the initial pop-and-pour and all in balance with the acidity. I only had a glass tonight, so I'll be able to sample over the next few days.
    To be fair, I've enjoyed all three bottles of Barolo/Barbaresco that I've opened, which include a 2016 Vajra Albe, a 2017 de Forville Barbaresco, and this bottle tonight. I now feel like I have a better sense of what to expect from modern/earlier drinking Barolo/Barbaresco and where I was previously totally ignorant, I'm now going to carve out space in my cellar for a few bottles of Barolo/Barbaresco going forward, since they are so excellent as meal-time wines.
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    Re: TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

    #140 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

    Uncorked yesterday in the afternoon for today. Simply epic Normale. Best young Produttori I’ve ever tasted, just glorious Nebbiolo.
    "Never lose sight of the fact that it is just fermented grape juice" - a winemaker and negotiant in Napa Valley, CA

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