Ponsot...in general

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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Robert Grenley
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Ponsot...in general

#1 Post by Robert Grenley » November 13th, 2019, 10:53 pm

I have only a few bottles of Ponsot Clos de la Roche V.V. in the cellar, spread around a few vintages...1999, 2001, 2005, 2010...although I have not yet opened any as of yet.
It seems like, more than almost any other red Burg, this wine is almost universally judged to be stellar upon release, consistently receiving praise and 95-98 scores and priced into the stratosphere, and yet it seems to be beset by bottle variation and other issues as they age...at least according to many reviews.

Burghound quotes of maturing examples from various top vintages years down the line include such enticing descriptions as:
"...slightly funky nose of murky and somewhat dull fruit"
"...edgy and mildly drying finale. It's hard to know how much of the problem with the finish is attributable to the brett...."
"...somewhat worryingly a fourth bottle displayed enough brett to notice."
"...I should note that I have experienced a tremendous amount of bottle variation with this wine, including any number of corked and/or funky examples. Indeed I recently did an event where 6 bottles of this wine were opened and all 6 were between slightly to overtly flawed."
"I have had pretty consistent experiences with this wine save for one recent bottle that was very badly reduced and another that was so riddled with brett that for my taste it was undrinkable"

From Neal Martin, on an '05 tasted blind: "it tasted nothing like a Burgundy, let alone a Clos de la Roche."
Not to mention numerous notes mentioning musty aromas of old barrels, etc.

Never have I come across a wine so lauded upon release and so seemingly inconsistent as it ages.
So, I would love to hear what experiences and thoughts others might have.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#2 Post by Scott Brunson » November 14th, 2019, 3:20 am

We had '10 Corton and '13 Mont Luisants Blanc last weekend.
The Corton was 'off,' with a stewed fruit and dull rhubarb taste.
The Blanc was spectacular.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#3 Post by Ian Dorin » November 14th, 2019, 5:16 am

What vintages are those notes from?

Yes, I have had some vintages that were quite funky, like 1997, and one of the ones you own, 2001. However, I find that there is always a funky quality with Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis, and find it quite charming. Some years definitely have more than others. The 99 wears the funk better than the other two vintages I note. I have found that 2005 and forward that the wines are much clear. Examples I've had were 2006 (several times) and 2008 that should real purity. The 2009 and 2010 were both massive and young, but I didn't notice any funk.

Having said that, 85 Clos de la Roche VV is still in my top 5 wines of all time :)
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#4 Post by alan weinberg » November 14th, 2019, 6:47 am

80, 85, 99 all great. With the new plastic closure I have stopped buying. Didn’t like 97. Passing on Ponsot.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#5 Post by A. So » November 14th, 2019, 7:27 am

The best of the bottles I've tasted are passable. Many are muddy. Certainly not worth the price, they are on my Do Not Buy list.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#6 Post by Jerry Hey » November 14th, 2019, 7:47 am

I had the 99 and 05 Clos de la Roche two weeks ago. The 99 was stellar, easily one of the best red Burgs I've had recently. The 05 wasn't as open and held a lot in reserve, but both were excellent bottles. A case of 85 CdlR bought on release has only gotten better over the years and my last bottle was nearly perfect. The 2004 has bad serious issues with the greenies although a couple bottles were decent but not up to the quality I expect.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#7 Post by Robert Pavlovich » November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

It’s tough to understand the original Clos de la Roche vineyard (it’s been aggressively expanded over the years) without going through Ponsot, as the family domaine owns 3 of the 4 hectares of it. I’m unclear on who may have the other piece/s. Did some digging a while back and couldn’t link H Lignier or Dujac as owners of the original CdlR vineyard either.

Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s. Nods to biodynamic, and doesn’t use pesticides but don’t think he ever persued certification. Conscious of using minimal sulphur, and of course went to great lengths to avoid corked bottles. He seems to share a lot of the board’s group think, but the inconsistency in bottle and vintage is definitely there. Maybe he takes too many chances, and could’ve used a co-pilot. But also believe too many of his CdlR’s are opened too young. Will start thinking about opening mine around the 20 year mark, but would rather be in the 25-30 year range.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#8 Post by PCLIN » November 14th, 2019, 8:54 am

Too inconsistent to be on regular buying list.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#9 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 14th, 2019, 9:00 am

I have had two exceptional bottles of the 2002 Charmes-Chambertin Cuvée des Merles. While this is not the vineyard you're referencing I've had nothing but really great bottles. I've never had the CdlR from Ponsot but would love to remedy that sometime down the road.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#10 Post by Mike Evans » November 14th, 2019, 9:05 am

I’ve had bad luck with the 2008 Charmes-Chambertin and a very disappointing 1999 Clos de la Roche in recent years, along with a corked 1998 Clos de la Roche which I put in a different category as bad corks are more universal.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#11 Post by Gerhard P. » November 14th, 2019, 9:22 am

Ian Dorin wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 5:16 am
... I find that there is always a funky quality with Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis, ...
No, I don´t 2nd that. I did a comprehensive CdlRoche /CStDenis-tasting 2 years ago (14 bottles each) - and there were no general funk to detect, also not in 2001 and 2008 Ponsot.
However the performance of Ponsot in general is very inconsistent. Mid-90s vintages often were "off" early on, browning, slightly oxidized (also the accidental cork), unclean, without any great potential ... 1996 usually being the worst.
However I had a very good 1996 CdlR last year that was clearly better. [scratch.gif]

On the other hand some Ponsots have been really spectacular, 1985, 1989, 1991, 2002 ... but I´m very suspicious about the new "plastic" closures they use since 2008 ... the acidity seems to be elevated and not well integrated ... reduced fruit ... judgement reserved, and I never buy more than one bottle (Griottes or ChM Charmes) for immediate tasting ... I have better choices for my money.
I also don´t know how it will be in the future without Laurent ...
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#12 Post by joz€f p1nxten » November 14th, 2019, 9:38 am

Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s.
One interesting point I remember from a discussion with a producer in Gevrey 2 weeks ago, when discussing lower percentage of new oak being used is that he said people underestimate how difficult it is to keep these "clean". Just wondering how much some noise around increase of brett may have to do with producers dialing back new oak but not handling the old barrels perfectly.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#13 Post by Robert Pavlovich » November 14th, 2019, 10:02 am

joz€f p1nxten wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 9:38 am
Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s.
One interesting point I remember from a discussion with a producer in Gevrey 2 weeks ago, when discussing lower percentage of new oak being used is that he said people underestimate how difficult it is to keep these "clean". Just wondering how much some noise around increase of brett may have to do with producers dialing back new oak but not handling the old barrels perfectly.
That’s an interesting point for sure. Oak is a huge element in fine wine obviously, and I feel it’s often misunderstood. Group think now is often “least amount of new oak makes the best wine” but it’s not as simple as that. It does seem though, that an obvious marketing strategy of today is mentioning “we’re using less new oak” as it’s what most buyers and collectors want to hear.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#14 Post by William Kelley » November 14th, 2019, 10:59 am

Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s. Nods to biodynamic, and doesn’t use pesticides but don’t think he ever persued certification. Conscious of using minimal sulphur, and of course went to great lengths to avoid corked bottles. He seems to share a lot of the board’s group think, but the inconsistency in bottle and vintage is definitely there. Maybe he takes too many chances, and could’ve used a co-pilot. But also believe too many of his CdlR’s are opened too young. Will start thinking about opening mine around the 20 year mark, but would rather be in the 25-30 year range.
This is a little academic, since Laurent Ponsot's last vintage vinified at the Domaine was 2016. While it is still early days, I have been very favorably impressed by Alex Abel, the new winemaker, and my intuition is that the wines will be more consistent going forward. 1982 was Jean Marie Ponsot's last vintage and almost everything I have had before that and including date has been terrific. Laurent's tenure was more inconsistent, but with some very notable highlights, the 1999 cited here being among the most prominent. Today, the holdings are incredible, the style is singular, and there are competent people in charge, so I would say the future is bright.

Also, as an addendum, anyone who has seen the Monts Luisants old vine Aligoté holdings would be under no illusions about nodding to organics / biodynamics. That will change in the future, I am sure, but those steeper parcels were always resolutely 'conventional' in their farming.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#15 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 14th, 2019, 12:15 pm

Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
believe too many of his CdlR’s are opened too young. Will start thinking about opening mine around the 20 year mark, but would rather be in the 25-30 year range.
With the provisio that I know nothing whatsoever about the topic at hand, my overwhelming impression from reading the replies on this thread was of yet more persistent ubiquitous pandemic Pop-N-Pour Infanticide from Wine Caananites Carthaginians Berserkers.

Almost everything people here [to include Stephen Tanzer] are describing could very well be precisely the sort of bottle funk which might blow off after a day [or three] of patient coaxing.

But since everyone in greater Oenophilia Inc is hell bent on pop-n-pour-infanticiding their wines, the world will never know.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#16 Post by Doug Schulman » November 14th, 2019, 12:28 pm

William Kelley wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 10:59 am
Also, as an addendum, anyone who has seen the Monts Luisants old vine Aligoté holdings would be under no illusions about nodding to organics / biodynamics. That will change in the future, I am sure, but those steeper parcels were always resolutely 'conventional' in their farming.
That's interesting. Are there reasons related to the steepness? I've absolutely loved the couple of bottles of this that I've had, by the way.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#17 Post by Robert Grenley » November 14th, 2019, 1:10 pm

Ian, as to vintages, let's see:

1993: "A slightly funky nose of murky and somewhat dull fruit is followed by medium weight and equally dull flavors that seemed to be at once tired yet edgy."
2008: "...edgy and mildly drying finale. It's hard to know how much of the problem with the finish is attributable to the brett..."
1999: Good review, score 93 but "somewhat worryingly a fourth bottle displayed enough brett to notice."
2001: Good review, score 93 but "Notwithstanding the laudatory description above I should note that I have experienced a tremendous amount of bottle variation with this wine, including any number of corked and/or funky examples. Indeed I recently did an event where 6 bottles of this wine were opened and all 6 were between slightly to overtly flawed."
1998: "I have had pretty consistent experiences with this wine save for one recent bottle that was very badly reduced and another that was so riddled with brett that for my taste it was undrinkable."

Both Neal Martin's and Steve Tanzer's notes on the 2005 from bottle, after impressing them greatly from barrel, were scored with question marks...NM's based on a blind tasting in 2019, Steve's long note (not copied in my post) was from a bottle sampled in 2008, and he stated: "If my cork was not perfect, then the juice in the bottle is probably a 98-pointer; but if my bottle was sealed with a perfectly sound cork, then an otherwise extraordinary wine will wear a whiff of faulty cooperage through its life like a scarlet "O"."

I posted this in regard to what seemed like significant inconsistency in a wine that I own but had not yet tasted, and was just wondering if people on the boards had similar experiences, or knew what the winemaking techniques are that Ponsot used that might lead to sometimes profound but sometimes bad (musty, bretty, or otherwise "damaged") wine...which makes the high prices for this wine a risky purchase.
Not that I am any longer a buyer, based on price and risk.

BTW, it seems like notes on older vintages, perhaps 1990 and earlier, do not mention this apparent inconsistency.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#18 Post by Ian Dorin » November 14th, 2019, 1:25 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 9:22 am
Ian Dorin wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 5:16 am
... I find that there is always a funky quality with Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis, ...
No, I don´t 2nd that. I did a comprehensive CdlRoche /CStDenis-tasting 2 years ago (14 bottles each) - and there were no general funk to detect, also not in 2001 and 2008 Ponsot.
However the performance of Ponsot in general is very inconsistent. Mid-90s vintages often were "off" early on, browning, slightly oxidized (also the accidental cork), unclean, without any great potential ... 1996 usually being the worst.
However I had a very good 1996 CdlR last year that was clearly better. [scratch.gif]

On the other hand some Ponsots have been really spectacular, 1985, 1989, 1991, 2002 ... but I´m very suspicious about the new "plastic" closures they use since 2008 ... the acidity seems to be elevated and not well integrated ... reduced fruit ... judgement reserved, and I never buy more than one bottle (Griottes or ChM Charmes) for immediate tasting ... I have better choices for my money.
I also don´t know how it will be in the future without Laurent ...
I had 3 bottles of the 2001 in the last 2 years, all of which had some fun, good funk on them. No overbearing, but also not offensive.

The 2008 I had was super clean though.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#19 Post by Paul Jaouen » November 14th, 2019, 2:03 pm

I haven’t had a lot of vintages but I think 91 is killer good!
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#20 Post by Jeremy Holmes » November 14th, 2019, 4:54 pm

Certainly variable wines but when they are on they are on.

The '99 CdlR has been splendid on multiple occasions. I've had the '02, 06 and '14 CdlR over the past 12 months or so and they have also all been very good.

We did Griotte-Chambertin on Monday night and had Ponsot '08 (oxidised, even with plastic tampon seal), '09 ( a little astringent), '10 (some V.A but really good), '14 (complete and quite superb), '16 (made by Laurent, really good).
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#21 Post by alan weinberg » November 14th, 2019, 7:58 pm

is he still using his white dot on the bottle to evaluate whether the bottle got hot? I once baked an empty bottle at 350 degrees and the temp dot didn’t change.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#22 Post by Robert Grenley » November 14th, 2019, 8:28 pm

Well, I have 3 of the 99, which sounds more consistent, 3 of the 05 which hopefully is all that they thought it would be but I will wait a good long time, and the bottle of 01 I will crack open and see what gives.
And since I only have 1 of the 10, again I will wait on it.
So, are the old barrels and no SO2 and maybe some other "musty" techniques the reasons for the crapshoot in some vintages...at least in the 90's and after?
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#23 Post by Tom Reddick » November 14th, 2019, 9:18 pm

Great threads- enjoying the commentary very much.

For my part, I was laughing when I saw the title. Not at you OP- but at the notion of "Ponsot" and "in general" in the same phrase. As others have attested, the eventual variability here goes far beyond that of any other famed wine producer I could name- though I would say that Leroy comes in second place for me, if a distant second.

My experience with Ponsot is fairly limited, but generally in line with what many report here. When the wines are on, they are incredible. A great mature Ponsot wine is a rare combination of youthful freshness, tantalizing tertiary detail and a velvety smoothness all effortlessly restrained in a classic structure so well embedded that you do not even notice it at first for all the emotional sensations hitting you.

The 1985 and 1991 Clos de la Roche VV are among the greatest burgundies I have ever tasted. And the Mont Luisants has an amazing life span much of the time. Even the 1981 was showing nicely- if on the edge- at nearly 30 years of age.

At the next level you have wines like the 1990 Chapelle which has aged beautifully but comes off a bit simply for lacking the nuanced detail expected, even if excelling on other points.

And then you have the ocean of wines- or in many cases I should say specific bottles- that are flawed or seem to be flawed in some manner.

For my part, now that I have had the chance to revel in superb bottles of two of the generally accorded greatest examples during Laurent's tenure (the two CDLR noted above), I have thrown in the towel and moved on. At current prices there is just too much risk involved.

As for Alan's comment on the white dot- the last time I attempted to order Ponsot about a decade ago, the six packs arrived with the white dots intact but with very noticeable fresh seepage- trails of it running down the backs of the bottles and settling in puddles inside the cases- about the worst I have ever seen. So I too have found little reason to put any faith in that bit of technology.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#24 Post by William Kelley » November 15th, 2019, 8:39 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 12:28 pm
William Kelley wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 10:59 am
Also, as an addendum, anyone who has seen the Monts Luisants old vine Aligoté holdings would be under no illusions about nodding to organics / biodynamics. That will change in the future, I am sure, but those steeper parcels were always resolutely 'conventional' in their farming.
That's interesting. Are there reasons related to the steepness? I've absolutely loved the couple of bottles of this that I've had, by the way.
Steep and planted across the slope and very old vines, all in all hard to plough - so they have used herbicides. As I say, they want to change that, but it's not so easy.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#25 Post by Tom Blach » November 15th, 2019, 11:24 am

I don't know about recent wines but bottles from 'off' vintages in the 1980s-80, 81, 82, 86, 87- have in recent years been just heartbreakingly wonderful, in narrative terms really as good as burgundy gets. Perhaps they just need time, though I suppose things have changed there in the meantime just as much as anywhere else.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#26 Post by Sanjay Nandurkar » November 15th, 2019, 12:25 pm

A friend from my wine group opened a 1985 Clos de la Roche two weeks ago. Auction buy. Showed mild funk . acceptable to me. Nice wine. But I would not call it spectacular and would not tempt me to buy another one especially at the prices asked.

I have a few bottles of 2006 CdlR. Don't know whether to open and drink them or auction them.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#27 Post by Robert Grenley » November 15th, 2019, 12:43 pm

joz€f p1nxten wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 9:38 am
Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s.
One interesting point I remember from a discussion with a producer in Gevrey 2 weeks ago, when discussing lower percentage of new oak being used is that he said people underestimate how difficult it is to keep these "clean". Just wondering how much some noise around increase of brett may have to do with producers dialing back new oak but not handling the old barrels perfectly.
That is interesting. It seems to me, as I browse through Burghound Database “personal tasting notes” on older vintages (as opposed to tasting notes appearing in BH issues), his comments on finding Brett (from mild to “undrinkable” levels) are increasing dramatically. Since I bought some of these wines based upon laudatory reviews upon release, it is a bit concerning.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#28 Post by maureen nelson » November 15th, 2019, 1:25 pm

Not that I have a ton of ponsot experience (but the 1988 CSD inhad about 15; years ago was incredibly delicious) but i note that these wines tend to bounce around the US secondary market. As a result I expect poor storage of some could encourage brett bloom.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#29 Post by alan weinberg » November 15th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Sanjay Nandurkar wrote:
November 15th, 2019, 12:25 pm
A friend from my wine group opened a 1985 Clos de la Roche two weeks ago. Auction buy. Showed mild funk . acceptable to me. Nice wine. But I would not call it spectacular
it used to be spectacular. And $100.

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#30 Post by Bryan Price » November 15th, 2019, 5:49 pm

I love the idea of a wine that ages well, but posts like this make me cringe. Buying wine for +10 years only to find out two decades later it's downright bad or just muted in taste....terrible.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#31 Post by Robert Grenley » November 16th, 2019, 1:14 am

maureen nelson wrote:
November 15th, 2019, 1:25 pm
Not that I have a ton of ponsot experience (but the 1988 CSD inhad about 15; years ago was incredibly delicious) but i note that these wines tend to bounce around the US secondary market. As a result I expect poor storage of some could encourage brett bloom.
I know nothing about Brett. Is it a product of contamination during elevage, and can poor storage make it worse?
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#32 Post by joz€f p1nxten » November 16th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Robert Grenley wrote:
November 15th, 2019, 12:43 pm
joz€f p1nxten wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 9:38 am
Robert Pavlovich wrote:
November 14th, 2019, 8:46 am
Laurent is known for picking late, often gambling in cooler years. He doesn’t like new oak, to the point he wants his barrels at least five years old. Because of this they can be seen as lighter impact GC’s.
One interesting point I remember from a discussion with a producer in Gevrey 2 weeks ago, when discussing lower percentage of new oak being used is that he said people underestimate how difficult it is to keep these "clean". Just wondering how much some noise around increase of brett may have to do with producers dialing back new oak but not handling the old barrels perfectly.
That is interesting. It seems to me, as I browse through Burghound Database “personal tasting notes” on older vintages (as opposed to tasting notes appearing in BH issues), his comments on finding Brett (from mild to “undrinkable” levels) are increasing dramatically. Since I bought some of these wines based upon laudatory reviews upon release, it is a bit concerning.
Robert, certainly don't take my thoughts for facts! I am no expert at all - just curious to see that the fact that professional tasters seem to encounter more brett these days coincides with the idea that "the less new oak, the better". See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=160196&p=2717029&hi ... t#p2717029
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#33 Post by Nathan V. » November 16th, 2019, 1:01 pm

Has anyone had the 2010 CDLR VV lately? Is it a plastic cork wine?
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#34 Post by Robert Grenley » November 16th, 2019, 2:31 pm

joz€f p1nxten, thanks for the link. I had not see that thread previously.
And I will go check out the Burghound article on Brett mentioned in the thread, and try the search for brett in tasting notes on BH's database as I believe it was Tom Reddick who had suggested it.
OR, instead, I could ignore the whole thing so it doesn't stress me out!
(I already obsess over premox, to the extent that I stopped aging white burgs, and I don't need something else to worry about.)

Just thought of another question though:
If a tasting of a bottle reveals brett, and the producer has bottled the wine direct from barrel, barrel by barrel, then I can see that only some bottles might be affected and others not.
If, as I assume is more commonly the practice, the wines from barrel are assembled in a tank and bottled, to avoid bottle-to-bottle variability, and a tasting from bottle reveals brett, can one assume that the entire production of that wine is "infected" by brett to some degree, and some bottles may show more than others depending on growth over time in the bottle?
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#35 Post by Ian Dorin » November 17th, 2019, 8:52 am

Sanjay Nandurkar wrote:
November 15th, 2019, 12:25 pm
A friend from my wine group opened a 1985 Clos de la Roche two weeks ago. Auction buy. Showed mild funk . acceptable to me. Nice wine. But I would not call it spectacular and would not tempt me to buy another one especially at the prices asked.

I have a few bottles of 2006 CdlR. Don't know whether to open and drink them or auction them.
Cuvee William or VV?
They made two wines that year, and the VV is worlds apart.
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Re: Ponsot...in general

#36 Post by Rick Allen » November 17th, 2019, 11:44 am

Robert Grenley wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 1:14 am
maureen nelson wrote:
November 15th, 2019, 1:25 pm
Not that I have a ton of ponsot experience (but the 1988 CSD inhad about 15; years ago was incredibly delicious) but i note that these wines tend to bounce around the US secondary market. As a result I expect poor storage of some could encourage brett bloom.
I know nothing about Brett. Is it a product of contamination during elevage, and can poor storage make it worse?
The answer to both questions is yes. Brett can exist in a wine in small amounts and be, for most, unidentifiable and might actually add to the complexity of the wine. At warmer temperatures the existing brett will multiply (bloom) in the bottle creating a brett bomb. I've found the demarcation point to be a temperature somewhere around 70 degrees, though I suspect that is probably pH sensitive (higher pH = lower temp).

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Re: Ponsot...in general

#37 Post by joz€f p1nxten » November 17th, 2019, 11:54 am

Robert Grenley wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 2:31 pm
joz€f p1nxten, thanks for the link. I had not see that thread previously.
And I will go check out the Burghound article on Brett mentioned in the thread, and try the search for brett in tasting notes on BH's database as I believe it was Tom Reddick who had suggested it.
OR, instead, I could ignore the whole thing so it doesn't stress me out!
(I already obsess over premox, to the extent that I stopped aging white burgs, and I don't need something else to worry about.)

Just thought of another question though:
If a tasting of a bottle reveals brett, and the producer has bottled the wine direct from barrel, barrel by barrel, then I can see that only some bottles might be affected and others not.
If, as I assume is more commonly the practice, the wines from barrel are assembled in a tank and bottled, to avoid bottle-to-bottle variability, and a tasting from bottle reveals brett, can one assume that the entire production of that wine is "infected" by brett to some degree, and some bottles may show more than others depending on growth over time in the bottle?
Can't help you Robert - I am not too worried at this stage, as I don't seem too sensitive to. As noted, it can add complexity, and I have never come across a bottle that was undrinkable because of brett (as opposed to premox of TCA).

Best,
Jozef
Jozef

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