Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

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Hans Strand
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Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#1 Post by Hans Strand » November 6th, 2019, 9:39 am

I just came back from a few days of tasting the 2018 vintage from barrel. In short a very powerful vintage with lots of tannins, but supported with enough fruit to make the wines balanced. For me it is even a more powerful vintage than both 2005 and 2015. It would be interesting to hear somebody else´s opinion. I tasted the wines from several producers with very similar powerful results.

Domaine Armand Rousseau 2018 from barrel:

Gevrey-Chambertin 2018.
Already here I noticed a power which I have never experienced before at this village level. A big wine indeed, with chewy tannins and fruit in abundance. Is it just the vintage or are we seeing a change in style at chez Rousseau? 91p.

Lavaux St. Jacques 2018.

Also here more grip compared to previous vintages. Lovely wine. 92p.

Charmes-Chambertin 2018.
A wine which to me has evolved constantly sine 2012 and now is really a top notch Grand Cru. Again lots of flesh and chewy tannins. Fresh and complex. A wine for my cellar. 94p.

Clos del La Roche 2018.
As always different aromatics than the wines from Gevrey. Lovely and full, with lots of structure. 94p.

Mazy-Chambertin 2018.
This is fantastic in 2018! The best vintage I have ever taste for this wine at Rousseau. Big and chewy with lots of transparency. 95p.

Ruchottes-Chambertin 2018.
In comparison with all other wines I noticed finer tannins here. The wine is super delicate and made with millimeter precision. The tannins just teases your palate and gives the wine that extra lift which characters this "Queen of the Cellar". Simply the best Ruchottes I have tasted during my 12 years of tasting here. 97p.

Clos St. Jacques 2018.
More wood on the nose than Ruchottes and a broader shoulder as well. A full throttle Clos St. Jacques built for the cellar. Here I understand the sheer power, but I still prefer the ultra elegance of Ruchottes. 96p.

Chambertin 2018.
This is so big and powerful that your mouth gets numb. It is simply hard to dissect this wine. Everything is in there and the wine saturates every square millimeter of your mouth. Simply a project for your grand children. Probably the most powerful Chambertin ever. 99p.

Chambertin-Clos de Bèze 2018.

If the Chambertin was big this year, the Bèze is even bigger. At least at this stage. It is a monumental wine built for the cellar. Unfortunately at my age (64) I will most likely never be able to enjoy this monumental wine at full maturity. 99p+

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#2 Post by g.colangelo » November 6th, 2019, 10:34 am

How are the alcohol levels chez Rousseau?
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#3 Post by Hans Strand » November 7th, 2019, 2:38 am

It is still 13,5% in 2018. The first year ever that there was no need for chapitalization. It is all natural alcohol.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#4 Post by Dennis Atick » November 7th, 2019, 3:52 am

Funny timing, as I just read these comments a minute ago:


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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#5 Post by dteng » November 7th, 2019, 7:21 am

😬
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#6 Post by Jürgen Steinke » November 7th, 2019, 8:12 am

Sorry, but I am worried that Gilman bashes the 2003 vintage entirely. 2003 produced some fantastic Burgundies. 2003 Clos de Tart is wonderful i.e.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#7 Post by Hans Strand » November 7th, 2019, 8:50 am

I did not feel the heat and the jamminess which I find in most 2003. 2018 is more about size and power. The wines are still fresh and transparent and show their terroir.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#8 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 7th, 2019, 8:51 am

He was talking about 2003 bdx

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#9 Post by Gerhard P. » November 7th, 2019, 8:53 am

What I´ve tasted has no resemblance to 2003, at least at the top-producers where I´ve been (1st week in September).
(It might well be that someone harvested too late and lost freshness and acidity, wines getting overripe and too broad, but I didn´t have any...)

The wines are concentrated, structured but with ripe and sweet tannins and no dryness in the finish, definitely better than "only" classic, with real depth and complexity, acidity sound but not pronounced, the balance is usually very good - and most probably a vintage to buy also the "simpler" crus ... Stronger than 2017, but with less charme in the youth, but great potential.

Who prefers 2008 to 2009 and 2013 to 2012 (Gilman did, right?) should better look elsewhere, but I only saw smiling faces in the cellars ...
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#10 Post by HMechbal » November 7th, 2019, 9:11 am

He doesn't compare the taste of 2018 Burg and 2003 Bdx, he compares the early hype.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#11 Post by Brady Daniels » November 7th, 2019, 9:27 am

HMechbal wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 9:11 am
He doesn't compare the taste of 2018 Burg and 2003 Bdx, he compares the early hype.
Agreed, but presumably in so doing, he is indirectly linking the wines. Both were freakishly hot vintages in the respective regions that producing wines that Gilman finds beyond over-ripe. Please note this is my presumption, not his words... yet.

Gerhard, I like 08, 09, 12 and 13 Burgundy. Most ‘03 Burgundy, not so much. I understand that by ‘09, growers had learned to deal with the heat better. Hope you are right about ‘18.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#12 Post by Mark Y » November 7th, 2019, 9:36 am

I don't think he's linking the wines at ALL.. he's talking about the marketing hype..
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 7th, 2019, 10:01 am

What I heard was that 18 is like 15, with a little more power and a little less elegance.
Gerhard P. wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 8:53 am
What I´ve tasted has no resemblance to 2003, at least at the top-producers where I´ve been (1st week in September).
(It might well be that someone harvested too late and lost freshness and acidity, wines getting overripe and too broad, but I didn´t have any...)

The wines are concentrated, structured but with ripe and sweet tannins and no dryness in the finish, definitely better than "only" classic, with real depth and complexity, acidity sound but not pronounced, the balance is usually very good - and most probably a vintage to buy also the "simpler" crus ... Stronger than 2017, but with less charme in the youth, but great potential.

Who prefers 2008 to 2009 and 2013 to 2012 (Gilman did, right?) should better look elsewhere, but I only saw smiling faces in the cellars ...

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#14 Post by Markus S » November 7th, 2019, 10:14 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 8:53 am
Who prefers 2008 to 2009 and 2013 to 2012 (Gilman did, right?) should better look elsewhere, but I only saw smiling faces in the cellars ...
Well, a lot of folks think 2015 is too ripe.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#15 Post by Markus S » November 7th, 2019, 10:16 am

HMechbal wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 9:11 am
He doesn't compare the taste of 2018 Burg and 2003 Bdx, he compares the early hype.
There's always more wine to sell. For 2018's, if the tariffs are still in effect, it might be a harder sell to the USofA.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#16 Post by Gerhard P. » November 7th, 2019, 10:56 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:01 am
What I heard was that 18 is like 15, with a little more power and a little less elegance
No, I don't 2nd that. Certainly not less elegant ... and a different kind if power ...
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#17 Post by Greg K » November 7th, 2019, 11:40 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:01 am
What I heard was that 18 is like 15, with a little more power and a little less elegance.
Gerhard P. wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 8:53 am
What I´ve tasted has no resemblance to 2003, at least at the top-producers where I´ve been (1st week in September).
(It might well be that someone harvested too late and lost freshness and acidity, wines getting overripe and too broad, but I didn´t have any...)

The wines are concentrated, structured but with ripe and sweet tannins and no dryness in the finish, definitely better than "only" classic, with real depth and complexity, acidity sound but not pronounced, the balance is usually very good - and most probably a vintage to buy also the "simpler" crus ... Stronger than 2017, but with less charme in the youth, but great potential.

Who prefers 2008 to 2009 and 2013 to 2012 (Gilman did, right?) should better look elsewhere, but I only saw smiling faces in the cellars ...
I think it's certainly riper than 15. I'm not going to be buying many 18s (not my type of vintage), and I'm certainly not aging the ones I do buy for the long haul.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#18 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 7th, 2019, 11:41 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:56 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:01 am
What I heard was that 18 is like 15, with a little more power and a little less elegance
No, I don't 2nd that. Certainly not less elegant ... and a different kind if power ...
How would you describe it?

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#19 Post by Jürgen Steinke » November 7th, 2019, 12:10 pm

BTW: Sounds like a vintage when so called lesser wines from cooler climates can perform. Good for consumers. Wines could be had for fair money with good quality. Perfect.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#20 Post by Howard Cooper » November 7th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Jürgen Steinke wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 8:12 am
Sorry, but I am worried that Gilman bashes the 2003 vintage entirely. 2003 produced some fantastic Burgundies. 2003 Clos de Tart is wonderful i.e.
Gilman was bashing 2003 Bordeaux, not Burgundy, in his tweets.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#21 Post by Jürgen Steinke » November 7th, 2019, 11:55 pm

Sorry for my mistake but bashing the entire 2003 Bordeaux vintage is worrying too because some very good wines do exist. It is true that 2003 is a rollercoaster vintage with some horrible wines but those do not tell the whole story.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#22 Post by Pierfrancesco Bini » November 8th, 2019, 3:12 am

Can't remember when I saw someone without a smile in the cellar. Even when tasting 03, 04 and 08/11/13 (at the moment in my mind the most difficult vintages this is side of 2000.

As we say in Italian: "Hey Waiter, is the wine good?"

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#23 Post by k s h i n » November 8th, 2019, 4:54 am

Based on a small samples from Comte Liger Belair, Frederic Mugnier, Jean Grivot and Faiveley:

2018 is a great red vintage, beautifully ripe and concentrated yet very fresh and pure. Some producers thought a repeat of the 09 but significantly more freshness.

2018 whites are quite ripe.

https://www.cellartracker.com/event.asp ... ource=list

I have heard that the vintage is irregular as it was a very ripe vintage and some producers picked too late and also issues with malo getting stuck.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#24 Post by m. ristev » November 8th, 2019, 7:48 am

i have seen 14.5 abv levels in 18 reds from loire and jura. hopefully these are anomalies, but i have a feeling there will be some high levels in burgundy too.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#25 Post by A Songeur » November 8th, 2019, 7:53 am

I tasted at Bart, Castagnier and Mugnier and was very impressed (as was my best part...). It was mentioned though that some producers got it wrong. There was no lack of elegance ... (nor ripeness and structure...)
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#26 Post by joz€f p1nxten » November 8th, 2019, 7:56 am

m. ristev wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 7:48 am
i have seen 14.5 abv levels in 18 reds from loire and jura. hopefully these are anomalies, but i have a feeling there will be some high levels in burgundy too.
I was in Burgundy yesterday for a quick visit. Some randoms observations:

- on your point above, there will be high levels of alcohol. An estate with excellent old vine material told me this could be due certain types of clones being used which in these circumstances only ripen fully at higher alchohol levels. Their wines were around 13.2 to max 13.5 % (seems to be similar to comment of J. Gillman on Lafarge);
- at certain estates, the crop is the highest since 1999 - quite remarkable. In other estates, it's maybe 10% above average due to age of vines and vineyard work;
- I only tasted at one white wine estate, and "green apples" came to mind on most cuvées - they started harvesting around 22 August, so very early.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#27 Post by Gerhard P. » November 8th, 2019, 8:55 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 11:41 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:56 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 10:01 am
What I heard was that 18 is like 15, with a little more power and a little less elegance
No, I don't 2nd that. Certainly not less elegant ... and a different kind if power ...
How would you describe it?
Concentrated and wonderfully ripe, with sweet tannins, but also with excellent structure and liveliness, very good balance, sound acidity without any harshness, pure dark fruit, will need time to show everything. Already quite elegant, but no early drinkers. Reminds me a bit on 1990 (with slightly higher alc.) - or something in between 2009 and 2010.
See post #9 above.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#28 Post by Markus S » November 8th, 2019, 9:41 am

m. ristev wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 7:48 am
i have seen 14.5 abv levels in 18 reds from loire and jura. hopefully these are anomalies, but i have a feeling there will be some high levels in burgundy too.
14.5+ is typical for Joly and many Savennieres, but Jura?? Outside of Macvin, how do they get so high?
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#29 Post by m. ristev » November 8th, 2019, 9:46 am

labet poulsard is 14.5, and for reference the same wine was <12 degrees in 16. no idea about the whites...maybe he picked too late but francois cotat's rose is 14.5 in 18 as well.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#30 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 8th, 2019, 9:50 am

Sounds like a nice vintage. So far I’ve seen pricing for whites higher than 17 which is disturbing. My understanding was that 17 was the best white vintage since 14.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#31 Post by Alan Rath » November 8th, 2019, 12:39 pm

Jürgen Steinke wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 12:10 pm
BTW: Sounds like a vintage when so called lesser wines from cooler climates can perform. Good for consumers. Wines could be had for fair money with good quality. Perfect.
Exactly. Can't wait to load up on good quality village wines.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#32 Post by danupdike » November 9th, 2019, 5:19 pm

UK critic Tim Atkin has posted comments on twitter similar to John Gilman.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#33 Post by R.Oesterle » November 10th, 2019, 2:37 am

2018 Burgundy Vintage Overview(Claude Kolm)
https://the-fine-wine-review.blogspot.com/p/p_70.html
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#34 Post by g.colangelo » November 10th, 2019, 3:10 am

Thank you, Roman, very informative.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#35 Post by John Morris » November 10th, 2019, 9:51 am

R.Oesterle wrote:
November 10th, 2019, 2:37 am
2018 Burgundy Vintage Overview(Claude Kolm)
https://the-fine-wine-review.blogspot.com/p/p_70.html
Claude told me it was the most uneven vintage in quality and style that he's seen in his 30+ years of visiting Burgundy. Here's his summary from the post above, based on three weeks of tasting in the region:
It was the best of years. It was the worst of years. 2018 in the Côte d’Or was a very hot, dry, sunny year, and for most producers, it yielded large crops. Additionally, it yielded wines that qualitatively and stylistically are all over the map. Some are classic in style; some have overripe, jammy fruit. Some have normal alcohols in the 13% range, some are in excess of 15% (and I have even heard from one of my colleagues who tastes more widely than I that he has tasted wines at 16.5%!). And yet, some of the wines above 14% (even at 14.5%) do manage to be surprisingly good.

This diversity has caused me to delay writing about the vintage until I felt that I had tasted enough to understand this very complex vintage and give you an introduction that explains what to expect and why. I have now finished three weeks out of four of tasting the wines and finally feel competent to give that summary. . . .

The resulting red wines that I have tasted have in some cases been classic both in quality of fruit and in alcohol, others have been riper in fruit and high in alcohol but still attractive by an “objective” standard, and some are very jammy in fruit and very high in alcohol. This makes for a treacherous vintage for the consumer who is not well-informed.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#36 Post by David_K » November 10th, 2019, 10:15 am

m. ristev wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 7:48 am
i have seen 14.5 abv levels in 18 reds from loire and jura. hopefully these are anomalies, but i have a feeling there will be some high levels in burgundy too.
Perfect timing to avoid the tariffs!
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#37 Post by John Morris » November 10th, 2019, 1:02 pm

David_K wrote:
November 10th, 2019, 10:15 am
m. ristev wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 7:48 am
i have seen 14.5 abv levels in 18 reds from loire and jura. hopefully these are anomalies, but i have a feeling there will be some high levels in burgundy too.
Perfect timing to avoid the tariffs!
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#38 Post by William Kelley » November 11th, 2019, 12:39 am

Claude's summary is nicely put. For the reasons that he gives, it is not an easy vintage to review, and it will be even more than normally interesting to revisit the finished wines after bottling—something I am doing much systematically at TWA now in any case.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#39 Post by Mont Stern » November 11th, 2019, 6:42 pm

My wife and were in Burgundy in October 2018 and the winemakers seemed very pleased for the most part with 2018 and based on the impression I ended up bidding and getting a barrel of Volnay in the Hospice de Beaune action. We detoured back to Beaune in June to taste it and were able to taste other 2018s. No buyers remorse in June and hopefully I can wait out the tarriffs or rethink my original bottling plan.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#40 Post by Hans Strand » November 13th, 2019, 7:02 am

I started this thread since I was enthusiastic over a great vintage. Still I am finding lots of scepticism in the comments to folow. Of course I don´t have a total view of the vintage in general, but at the 5 domaines I tasted the wines were really great. Including Rousseau, Faiveley, Roumier, Rebourseau and Ch. Meursault and Roulot. Powerful and ripe indeed, but certainly not showing jamminess or heat. Very miuch a reminder of 2015 with perhaps even more structure. Simply wines for the long haul and ripe and tasty wines even at lower level.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#41 Post by Hans Strand » November 13th, 2019, 7:03 am

Hans Strand wrote:
November 13th, 2019, 7:02 am
I started this thread since I was enthusiastic over a great vintage. Still I am finding lots of scepticism in the comments to folow. Of course I don´t have a total view of the vintage in general, but at the 6 domaines I tasted the wines were really great. Including Rousseau, Faiveley, Roumier, Rebourseau and Ch. Meursault and Roulot. Powerful and ripe indeed, but certainly not showing jamminess or heat. Very miuch a reminder of 2015 with perhaps even more structure. Simply wines for the long haul and ripe and tasty wines even at lower level.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#42 Post by m. ristev » November 13th, 2019, 7:09 am

ripe vintages tend to be attractive from barrel though, no?
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#43 Post by Mark Golodetz » November 13th, 2019, 7:20 am

I have yet to taste an ‘03 Burgundy that I would buy over its 1999 equivalent. The 2015s have been variable, as winemakers are learning how to deal wit global warming, and some really excellent wines came from it. Sounds as if 2018 will be the same; the good news is that there is plenty of wine left over from less ripe vintages to buy, and I would guess they will be a lot less expensive even without tariffs.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#44 Post by Howard Cooper » November 13th, 2019, 7:27 am

Jürgen Steinke wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 11:55 pm
Sorry for my mistake but bashing the entire 2003 Bordeaux vintage is worrying too because some very good wines do exist. It is true that 2003 is a rollercoaster vintage with some horrible wines but those do not tell the whole story.
So, nobody can rate vintages unless all wines from the vintage are uniformly good or uniformly bad? There go vintage charts.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#45 Post by Herwig Janssen » November 13th, 2019, 12:53 pm

I went to Burgundy for a very short trip , tasted at 4 top domaines . Obviously , my opinion is irrelevant but for what it is worth , my conclusion is the same as Claude Kolm’s . The reds are very high in alcohol and it shows ( aftertaste... ) but I don’t know if this will also be like that once the wine is in the bottle .
The whites are a pleasant surprise : good freshness and good acidities , surprising to me for such a hot year .

A Songeur
Posts: 939
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 6:45 am

Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#46 Post by A Songeur » November 14th, 2019, 7:00 am

Herwig Janssen wrote:
November 13th, 2019, 12:53 pm
I went to Burgundy for a very short trip , tasted at 4 top domaines . Obviously , my opinion is irrelevant but for what it is worth , my conclusion is the same as Claude Kolm’s . The reds are very high in alcohol and it shows ( aftertaste... ) but I don’t know if this will also be like that once the wine is in the bottle .
The whites are a pleasant surprise : good freshness and good acidities , surprising to me for such a hot year .
Do you think that very high in alcohol could change in bottle? Or maybe, it will show less but still be here?
This is worrying....
Antoine

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