Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

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Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#1 Post by Maxwell A. » November 4th, 2019, 5:19 pm

Hey everyone, what are your impressions of the wines of Vogüé?
I'm wondering more about the more recent vintages, say those within the last 10-15 years or so.

There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on whether this is a great Burgundy producer or not. Their vineyard holdings are most certainly in great terroirs, but how often is the potential of these vineyards captured and to what extent? The most negative things I can remember seeing written by well known Burgundy critics is that the wines sometimes (or often?) don't show well when they are young, or that they can lack soul. I've noticed there are many others that aren't very impressed by the Vogüé wines, or only sporadically.

Most people seem to agree that the wines take longer than normal to reach their potential, or show as well as wines from the same vineyards, made my other producers. Does this factor into the controversy at all?

Do people think that the wines of Roumier and Mugnier are regularly better than those of Vogüé?

Again, I'm interested more so in recent vintages and the perception of where the Domaine lies currently in the hierarchy of Burgundy producers.
Thanks for any thoughts on the topic.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#2 Post by alan weinberg » November 4th, 2019, 5:30 pm

two greatest red Burgs of my life are Vogüé 1929 and 1945. Like 78 and 85. I didn’t like 1990, too Cabernet-like and haven’t drunk many since, as I believe they need 30+ years. Pricing has turned me off, though.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#3 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 4th, 2019, 5:45 pm

I love the wines, but only buy a few at a time due to price. I have a modest vertical of the Chambolle 1er, and each time I open one bottle it prods me to buy two more.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#4 Post by john stimson » November 4th, 2019, 6:55 pm

Interesting question. I don't have a huge experience, but almost every bottle I've had, I've felt the wines to be a little unbalanced, a little too angular and to me a little more oak influence than I wanted. The oak thing is puzzling, because I believe the amount of new oak is not all that high. It could be that I've always had the wines too young, and that they truly need lots and lots of time. The bottling that bothers me the most is the Amoureuses, although I've only had a few. this is a delicate yet powerful wine, and yet their version has seemed heavy handed the few times that I've had it. It has seemed like it needs to be handled somewhat differently to me.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#5 Post by Maxwell A. » November 4th, 2019, 6:56 pm

I know the 1990 is a notorious example of a vintage where the Musigny didn't turn out well (at least that's what most people would agree on). It seems like there was a time where some vintages the wine would turn out great and some not so great. Is there a trend of them doing better or worse than normal in greater or lesser vintages? I've seen some of the lesser and or less popular vintages at heavily discounted prices (2011, 2013, 2014 for example).

The 1er seems like it should be a nice buy. Declassified Musigny. Smaller scale and a touch less complexity compared to the VV? Pretty much always less than half the price from what I've seen.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#6 Post by Maxwell A. » November 4th, 2019, 6:59 pm

john stimson wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 6:55 pm
Interesting question. I don't have a huge experience, but almost every bottle I've had, I've felt the wines to be a little unbalanced, a little too angular and to me a little more oak influence than I wanted. The oak thing is puzzling, because I believe the amount of new oak is not all that high. It could be that I've always had the wines too young, and that they truly need lots and lots of time. The bottling that bothers me the most is the Amoureuses, although I've only had a few. this is a delicate yet powerful wine, and yet their version has seemed heavy handed the few times that I've had it. It has seemed like it needs to be handled somewhat differently to me.
What vintages have you had? I read on a past post here that sometime in the last 10-15 years they dialed back the new oak. Supposedly to about the same level as Roumier.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#7 Post by Glen Gold » November 4th, 2019, 7:27 pm

As a guy who would like to drink Musigny but can't afford it, I've been stocking up on Musigny-adjacent or Musigny-kinda-sorta like the Vogüé 1er and Clavelier's Combe d'Orveaux. I haven't yet drunk any of these, but I've been reading up. My understanding is that for recent vintages, the Vogüé 1er drinks well when young. But also it's very vintage-dependent, so the notes for 2011, 2007 and 2004 (for instance) suggest that it's not a year-in year-out kind of purchase. Clavelier, however, seems to be more consistent, but also needs more time. Again, this is just what I've been reading -- people with, y'know, actual experience might have different points of view.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#8 Post by Maxwell A. » November 4th, 2019, 7:42 pm

Glen Gold wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:27 pm
As a guy who would like to drink Musigny but can't afford it, I've been stocking up on Musigny-adjacent or Musigny-kinda-sorta like the Vogüé 1er and Clavelier's Combe d'Orveaux. I haven't yet drunk any of these, but I've been reading up. My understanding is that for recent vintages, the Vogüé 1er drinks well when young. But also it's very vintage-dependent, so the notes for 2011, 2007 and 2004 (for instance) suggest that it's not a year-in year-out kind of purchase. Clavelier, however, seems to be more consistent, but also needs more time. Again, this is just what I've been reading -- people with, y'know, actual experience might have different points of view.
Thanks for the response, Glen. Where have you read negative things about Vogue Chambolle 1er or Musigny for the 2011 and 2007 vintages? I know they're "weaker" or at least less popular Burgundy vintages, but notes from the critics for those wines look very positive to me (Meadows, Gilman, Tanzer, Robinson to name a few I just looked up).
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#9 Post by john stimson » November 4th, 2019, 7:48 pm

Maxwell A. wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 6:59 pm
john stimson wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 6:55 pm
Interesting question. I don't have a huge experience, but almost every bottle I've had, I've felt the wines to be a little unbalanced, a little too angular and to me a little more oak influence than I wanted. The oak thing is puzzling, because I believe the amount of new oak is not all that high. It could be that I've always had the wines too young, and that they truly need lots and lots of time. The bottling that bothers me the most is the Amoureuses, although I've only had a few. this is a delicate yet powerful wine, and yet their version has seemed heavy handed the few times that I've had it. It has seemed like it needs to be handled somewhat differently to me.
What vintages have you had? I read on a past post here that sometime in the last 10-15 years they dialed back the new oak. Supposedly to about the same level as Roumier.
Vintages off the top of my head--95,96,99,2001, maybe 2002. for specifics I'd have to check.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#10 Post by john stimson » November 4th, 2019, 7:49 pm

john stimson wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Maxwell A. wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 6:59 pm
john stimson wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 6:55 pm
Interesting question. I don't have a huge experience, but almost every bottle I've had, I've felt the wines to be a little unbalanced, a little too angular and to me a little more oak influence than I wanted. The oak thing is puzzling, because I believe the amount of new oak is not all that high. It could be that I've always had the wines too young, and that they truly need lots and lots of time. The bottling that bothers me the most is the Amoureuses, although I've only had a few. this is a delicate yet powerful wine, and yet their version has seemed heavy handed the few times that I've had it. It has seemed like it needs to be handled somewhat differently to me.
What vintages have you had? I read on a past post here that sometime in the last 10-15 years they dialed back the new oak. Supposedly to about the same level as Roumier.
Vintages off the top of my head--95,96,99,2001, maybe 2002. for specifics I'd have to check.
Oh, and 1990 on release (killer Musigny at that time--never after). there may be some 93 but not sure.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#11 Post by A. So » November 4th, 2019, 9:57 pm

Just tasted both 2017 Musigny. Very impressive wines. The blanc may well be worth the price of admission.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#12 Post by paul hanna » November 4th, 2019, 11:56 pm

A. So wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 9:57 pm
Just tasted both 2017 Musigny. Very impressive wines. The blanc may well be worth the price of admission.
Their 2017's from barrel was all fantastic wines.

They really need time - the Musigny and Bonnes Mares in particular, really 25-40 years to show their best.

A slight stylistic change from 2007 on might mean that the wines will drink better younger, and maybe will need less time.

A number of more recent Musigny's (I can't find my notes to say exactly what we had) a few years ago seemed to bear this out, with the 2010 and 2011 being quite accessible from memory, whilst an '09 De Vogue Musigny bested an '09 Faiveley Musigny blind eighteen months ago (well for me anyway) - and was drinking quite well (if still young).

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#13 Post by Gerhard P. » November 5th, 2019, 2:33 am

I´ve had great bottles of Vogüé, but all great ones had been 25+ years old.
Some younger ones showed potential but simply did not sing for me ... and were more or less disapointing for what it was ...
(also the Ch-M and 1er Cru)

I do think that Vogüé needs a lot of time, and that it is simply a waste to drink these wines too young ... they often taste disjointed, herbal and unconvincing ... if you haven´t tasted the mature ones.
From barrel they were great (but I´ve been there only once).
I also think they are inconsistent ...

So I recommend buying only for those with a lot of patience and faith ...

Musigny blanc: I´ve had it only once (1992), and several times the Bourgogne blanc afterwards ... it is certainly a quite individualistic wine, very different from other white Burgs, but I don´t think the quality is worth the money (of 900+ for M. - 200+ for Bg.).
Rather a rarity than a really great wine imho.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#14 Post by Scott Brunson » November 5th, 2019, 3:34 am

We're drinking 07 BM Thursday night--I'll report.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#15 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 5th, 2019, 4:51 am

From a couple of years ago (12/28/2016). I wanted to try out the 2007 because of the general vintage accessibility.

2007 Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
Very early days for this, but it has a lovely perfume of red fruit, flowers, earth and yes the expected oak. Silk over tannin on the palate, it shows the quality of the vineyard (young vines Musigny here for anyone who does not already know) and the potential for a beautiful mid-term future for the wine. It is certainly worth the experience of opening this for the aromatics and the texture, but several more years are necessary for further palate development and aromatic complexity.

FYI, I opened it with Salil Benegal, and here's his note:
This drinks like Musigny. It has the soaring, perfumed floral and red fruited aromatics; immense depth on the palate with an array of savoury earthiness and minerality beneath the sappy red berried fruit, and such remarkable elegance and persistence in each sip. Absolutely stunning wine. It's so young now, but already a wow wine just for the stunning aromatics.

So I don't think there is any issue with 2007, other than it being young.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#16 Post by Jim Anderson » November 5th, 2019, 5:20 am

By some weird quirk in the universe the Bonnes Mares I have had the most has been the 1998 Vogue. I had 2 bottles and have been places where others have opened it or brought it. I’ve had it many times and mostly randomly. I’ve had it in its relative youth (5ish years) and up to about 17 or 18 years so not old but with some solid bottle age for a wine. It has been absolutely delicious each time. It may not be the most profound and deep Bonnes Mares ever but it has been fantastic to drink without once feeling like I was missing out on some aspect of the wine by consuming it when I was. Loads of fruit, great structure but not so much so that the wine was locked down, bright acidity but perfectly in check, amazing texture and just an array of spices mixing in with the fruit to make for a beautiful wine. Hope I get another turn with it at some point!
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#17 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 5th, 2019, 5:48 am

Great disappointment (and perplexity) very recently with :

Comte Georges de Vogüé, Musigny Grand Cru, Vieilles Vignes, 2006 - april 2019 - report by Eric Bordas
Clarté moyenne, brillant.
N/ Pointe d’ orange, petits fruits rouges puis très floral après une longue aération (vendange entière partielle?).
B/ Souplesse et fermeté caractérisent la bouche avec une astringence qui reste douce. Arômes d’orange et petits fruits rouges, acidité contrôlée. C’est un vin en retrait, qui ne se livre pas, plutôt fermé, qui aurait sans doute besoin d’une longue aération. On passe à côté d’une grande étiquette !!!! Trop jeune ? 16 +/20

Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Musigny VV 2005 : 15,5/20 - september 2019
Comme dans le cas du 2006 bu récemment à la maison, et c’est pire ici pour un 2005, le prestige en prend un sacré coup. Le vin est évolué, plutôt maigre, à peine typé pinot noir (je voyais un Margaux d’un millésime défavorable). Cellartracker l’estime à 94,6 points sur 100 en moyennant les notes de 17 dégustateurs (prix estimé de 1500 euros).


But a great/pleasant Bonnes-Mares 2007 (18/20) in may 2015 ... (pop and pour in a classy wine bar in Toulouse)
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#18 Post by Glen Gold » November 5th, 2019, 6:18 am

Maxwell A. wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Glen Gold wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:27 pm
As a guy who would like to drink Musigny but can't afford it, I've been stocking up on Musigny-adjacent or Musigny-kinda-sorta like the Vogüé 1er and Clavelier's Combe d'Orveaux. I haven't yet drunk any of these, but I've been reading up. My understanding is that for recent vintages, the Vogüé 1er drinks well when young. But also it's very vintage-dependent, so the notes for 2011, 2007 and 2004 (for instance) suggest that it's not a year-in year-out kind of purchase. Clavelier, however, seems to be more consistent, but also needs more time. Again, this is just what I've been reading -- people with, y'know, actual experience might have different points of view.
Thanks for the response, Glen. Where have you read negative things about Vogue Chambolle 1er or Musigny for the 2011 and 2007 vintages? I know they're "weaker" or at least less popular Burgundy vintages, but notes from the critics for those wines look very positive to me (Meadows, Gilman, Tanzer, Robinson to name a few I just looked up).
Whoops, my mistake. My comments were about tns I've seen on cellartracker for 2011, 2004 and 2003 - not 2007 - and I took those to be weaker years, not terrible or bad. And what I researched was mostly the 1er, as that's what I can (sometimes, maybe, once in a blue moon) afford.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#19 Post by Maxwell A. » November 5th, 2019, 8:22 am

Glen Gold wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 6:18 am
Maxwell A. wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Glen Gold wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 7:27 pm
As a guy who would like to drink Musigny but can't afford it, I've been stocking up on Musigny-adjacent or Musigny-kinda-sorta like the Vogüé 1er and Clavelier's Combe d'Orveaux. I haven't yet drunk any of these, but I've been reading up. My understanding is that for recent vintages, the Vogüé 1er drinks well when young. But also it's very vintage-dependent, so the notes for 2011, 2007 and 2004 (for instance) suggest that it's not a year-in year-out kind of purchase. Clavelier, however, seems to be more consistent, but also needs more time. Again, this is just what I've been reading -- people with, y'know, actual experience might have different points of view.
Thanks for the response, Glen. Where have you read negative things about Vogue Chambolle 1er or Musigny for the 2011 and 2007 vintages? I know they're "weaker" or at least less popular Burgundy vintages, but notes from the critics for those wines look very positive to me (Meadows, Gilman, Tanzer, Robinson to name a few I just looked up).
Whoops, my mistake. My comments were about tns I've seen on cellartracker for 2011, 2004 and 2003 - not 2007 - and I took those to be weaker years, not terrible or bad. And what I researched was mostly the 1er, as that's what I can (sometimes, maybe, once in a blue moon) afford.
Ah, no worries. Still, looks like 2011 isn't too bad from the cellartracker comments (for both 1er and Musigny). Only maybe a couple tastings notes that mention "green" out of the 19. But you're right in that from the comments and ratings it seems to be a touch lesser than the better vintages. The reason I mention any of this is because I have an interest in a lot of the "off/lesser/less popular" vintages since you can find some really good pricing on them. I don't have any interest in 2004 or 2003, but I've often found some interest in 2011. When there are no mentions of any green character, it seems that there are some nice wines, just not as big, impressive, and long lived as the more successful vintages. I still admit though, that I'm suspicious of any 2011s until I've tasted them or read enough tasting notes on them.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#20 Post by Maxwell A. » November 5th, 2019, 8:23 am

Thanks for the responses, everyone. All these data points and thoughts are very helpful.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#21 Post by scamhi » November 5th, 2019, 9:13 am

they need age and I like them very much. The Chambolle 1er, Bonnes Mares and the Musigny
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#22 Post by Jonathan Favre » November 5th, 2019, 10:03 am

I think they're making top notch wines - the 2010s were some of the best wines that I've tasted at a winery before with the 2012s not that far behind. GCs from the 60s and 70s can be great if they've been stored well over these many years ('47, '71, and '78 are A+) with the 80s having some deficiencies in quality IMHO. The '93 and '99 are wines that will reward in the future - especially the '93..... In short, no controversy just needs time. Also, I can't wait to taste the new Vogue Musigny blanc at some point - I can't imagine that a label change would make this blanc much better than average+. P.S. -- I'm holding a big bottle of Vogue BM in my avatar pic :)

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#23 Post by Matthew King » November 5th, 2019, 10:12 am

FWIW: Given house style, I enjoy the wines in less solar years. Tones down the burliness and extraction.

Here’s my note from recent 01 Bonnes Mares:

About the most transparent Vogue or Bonnes Mares wine I have ever had. Fabulous nose of crushed raspberry and soil. Super elegant but structured in a sneaky way. Very red fruited – with a pleasing hint of decay -- and long. It held up remarkably all night despite its delicate nature. The wine feels like it wants to be opened up in the next 2-3 years but can hold for a decade.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#24 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 5th, 2019, 10:13 am

Jonathan Favre wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 10:03 am
I think they're making top notch wines - the 2010s were some of the best wines that I've tasted at a winery before with the 2012s not that far behind. GCs from the 60s and 70s can be great if they've been stored well over these many years ('47, '71, and '78 are A+) with the 80s having some deficiencies in quality IMHO. The '93 and '99 are wines that will reward in the future - especially the '93..... In short, no controversy just needs time. Also, I can't wait to taste the new Vogue Musigny blanc at some point - I can't imagine that a label change would make this blanc much better than average+. P.S. -- I'm holding a big bottle of Vogue BM in my avatar pic :)
I had the Vogüé Musigny 1993 in december 2002 (served with a brilliant Leroy Corton Renardes 1993). The wine was very good and turned out to need time to reach its best. Hence, tough (the style of the domain + the vintage), however pleasant.

I wish I could taste it today (idem for the 1996, as I expected more from the Bonnes-Mares 1996 and the Amoureuses 1996).

Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Musigny Vieilles Vignes 1993 : december 2002
PC16,5 - DS18 - PP17,5 - LG17/18 - RT17 - EF16,5 - GL17,5 - VM16,5. Note moyenne : 17.
La robe est moins évoluée que la précédente.
Ici aussi, le nez est marqué par un fruit éclatant (dominante de cerise) ainsi que par des notes particulièrement mûres, florales, légèrement lactées.
Le vin semble en revanche moins prêt à boire. Plus réservé, il affiche réserve et (relative) austérité. Il n'en reste pas moins long, fin et élégant. Impression tactile de velours, de taffetas.

Last edited by Laurent Gibet on November 5th, 2019, 10:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#25 Post by c fu » November 5th, 2019, 10:14 am

Matthew King wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 10:12 am
FWIW: Given house style, I enjoy the wines in less solar years. Tones down the burliness and extraction.

Here’s my note from recent 01 Bonnes Mares:

About the most transparent Vogue or Bonnes Mares wine I have ever had. Fabulous nose of crushed raspberry and soil. Super elegant but structured in a sneaky way. Very red fruited – with a pleasing hint of decay -- and long. It held up remarkably all night despite its delicate nature. The wine feels like it wants to be opened up in the next 2-3 years but can hold for a decade.
The 01 musigny you opened last year @ republique was quite nice. I've enjoyed both the 01/02 in the recent years from them.

But like Jon said, the 70s are stunning wines from them
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#26 Post by RyanC » November 5th, 2019, 10:27 am

The 01s are really nice. I had both the Amoureuses and Bonnes Mares relatively recently and both were awesome—the Amoureuses particularly.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#27 Post by John Morris » November 5th, 2019, 10:58 am

An email just landed from Dan Posner with some very positive reviews. Gilman certainly doesn’t give points away.

1) 2011 Comte de Vogue Musigny Vieilles Vignes
6 btls available
Grapes Sale Price: $599/btl
A View from the Cellar 95+, Vinous 95+
"The 2011 Comte de Vogüé Musigny V.V. shows off a superb sense of both depth and harmony and this will be a quintessential example of Musigny with sufficient bottle age. The excellent nose jumps from the glass in a pure mélange of red and black cherries, plums, lovely spice tones, a complex base of soil, violets, cocoa and a touch of new oak. On the palate the wine is pure, full-bodied and very transparent, with superb mid-palate depth, ripe, utterly suave tannins and outstanding length and grip on the focused and very classy finish. This will be a great wine."-John Gilman

2) 2012 Comte de Vogue Musigny Vieilles Vignes
6 btls available
Grapes Sale Price: $799/btl
WA 98, A View from the Cellar 97, BH 97
"The 2012 Musigny Vieilles Vignes from the Comte de Vogüé is also a brilliant wine in the making. The deep, pure and nascently complex nose wafts from the glass in a stunning blend of red and black cherries, raspberries, red plums, cocoa, a stunning base of soil tones, hints of the smokiness to come, pungent (morning) violets and a discreet base of vanillin oak. On the palate the wine is deep, full-bodied, pure and perfectly focused, with a sappy core of fruit, glorious transparency, fine-grained tannins and impeccable balance on the very, very long, pure and perfectly focused finish. A great wine."-John Gilman

3) 2014 Comte de Vogue Chambolle Musigny
6 btls available
Grapes Sale Price: $189/btl
A View from the Cellar 89-90+
"The 2014 Chambolle AC from Domaine de Comte de Vogüé is a very pretty and promising village wine, wafting from the glass in a vibrant blend of black cherries, red plums, smoke, a lovely base of soil and a gentle topnote of mustard seed. On the palate the wine is pure, full-bodied and very suave on the attack, with a lovely core, moderate tannins and a long, tangy finish. This should prove to be an excellent middleweight and quintessentially Chambolle with six to eight years of bottle age."-John Gilman

4) 2014 Comte de Vogue Chambolle Musigny 1er Cru
3 btls available
Grapes Sale Price: $339/btl
BH 93, Vinous 92
"The intensely floral-suffused nose reveals notes of lavender, rose petal and lilac along with plenty of spice elements on the mostly dark berry fruit aromas. There is notably more volume to the equally pure medium weight plus flavors that positively vibrate with energy and minerality before culminating in a harmonious and beautifully well-balanced finale. This marvelously complex effort really builds from the mid-palate as the finish is sneaky long."-Allen Meadows

5) 2016 Comte de Vogue Bonnes Mares
2 magnums available
Grapes Sale Price: $1299/magnum
WA 94-96
"The 2016 Bonnes Mares Grand Cru was 70% affected by the frost, though François explained that the north side was spared the damage. It offers slightly darker fruit on the nose compared to the Les Amoureuses: blackcurrant, tobacco, sage and in the background a touch of flint and violet petal. The palate is medium-bodied with fine-grain tannin, though not quite as supple as the Les Amoureuses. I admire the symmetry here: a detailed and linear Bonnes Mares with impressive mineralité on the finish that lingers 45 to 60 seconds after the wine has departed."-Neal Martin
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#28 Post by David Kubiak » November 5th, 2019, 11:08 am

Last Musigny I drank was curiously the '97, which was really very, very, good, contrary to my expectations. In general, I think after its famous old vintages Vogüé began to underperform, which is a shame given how much of the vineyard they own. Roumier and Mugnier are absurdly overpriced for what they are in my opinion.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#29 Post by Nick Gangas » November 5th, 2019, 12:33 pm

The 66 was one of the best wines I've ever had. I consider this the best "value" GC around. In that the potential for a profound wine can be had for under $1K.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#30 Post by Jim Anderson » November 5th, 2019, 12:50 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 5:30 pm
two greatest red Burgs of my life are Vogüé 1929 and 1945. Like 78 and 85. I didn’t like 1990, too Cabernet-like and haven’t drunk many since, as I believe they need 30+ years. Pricing has turned me off, though.
I still have a bottle of the 1990 Musigny.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#31 Post by dcornutt » November 5th, 2019, 1:23 pm

One of my greatest experiences was a pristine bottle of 1971 Musigny from Vogue. The 1993 is DELICIOUS! Always loved the 2001. The wines from Francois Millet take some time to round out. I think this is an excellent address.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#32 Post by alan weinberg » November 5th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dcornutt wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 1:23 pm
One of my greatest experiences was a pristine bottle of 1971 Musigny from Vogue. The 1993 is DELICIOUS! Always loved the 2001. The wines from Francois Millet take some time to round out. I think this is an excellent address.
didn’t Christophe Roumier’s dad make the 71?

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#33 Post by dcornutt » November 5th, 2019, 2:59 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 1:24 pm
dcornutt wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 1:23 pm
One of my greatest experiences was a pristine bottle of 1971 Musigny from Vogue. The 1993 is DELICIOUS! Always loved the 2001. The wines from Francois Millet take some time to round out. I think this is an excellent address.
didn’t Christophe Roumier’s dad make the 71?
I don't know this. His grandfather was the regisseur for a very long time there. I think Francois has been the winemaker since the mid 80s.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#34 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » November 5th, 2019, 3:52 pm

FWIW, I have yet to have a mature bottle of the Musigny, having had '90, '91, '93 and '96 all with 20+ years' age. Quite recently, an Amoreuses from '96 stole the show ahead of the '96 Musigny and the '96 Mugnier Musigny. The Bonnes Mares also requires less time to be really pleasurable. Are they controversial? Depends on how you define it - there's people who don't like the wines and that's just fine, as there are people who don't like Coche or Raveneau. I have yet to see any major critic come down on the side of "these wines just aren't very good".
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#35 Post by Jeremy Holmes » November 5th, 2019, 4:18 pm

I reckon the wines of the past decade or so have a much lighter hand than the older wines. They taste sublime from barrel and are impressive on release, with obvious ability to age. When we used to look at some of the big guns from the latest vintage (served blind), including the likes of Rousseau and DRC, the Vogue Bonnes Mares and Musigny have always performed very well.

The older vintages were indeed built for the cellar and demanded long aging. Had an '85 Bonnes Mares with Paul Hanna a few years ago that was sublime. The '87 Musigny drinks really well today and a '61 Bonnes Mares is one of the very best aged red Burgs I have had.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#36 Post by B. Buzzini » November 5th, 2019, 5:43 pm

David Kubiak wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 11:08 am
Last Musigny I drank was curiously the '97, which was really very, very, good, contrary to my expectations. In general, I think after its famous old vintages Vogüé began to underperform, which is a shame given how much of the vineyard they own. Roumier and Mugnier are absurdly overpriced for what they are in my opinion.
Drank a 97 Amoureuses a couple years ago for our anniversary...we were BLOWN away by it...rated it 100pts in fact. Vogue on release or under 15yrs of age...VERY primary..yet with potential. The lesser vintages show better imo. Still a producer I want in my cellar and stomach...and consider classic Burgundy in my book! [cheers.gif]
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#37 Post by Joshua Kates » November 5th, 2019, 5:57 pm

Have any thoughts on when the '07's might be ready. I have the regular Chambolle and the Musigny in that year; the only ones I own, perhaps for obvious reasons.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#38 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 5th, 2019, 6:24 pm

Yet more systemic, pervasive, pandemic Infanticide courtesy of Wine Berserkers.

This board needs a new name.

Something along the lines of the Wine Carthaginians or Wine Canaanites or similar.

I dunno, on second thought, maybe it's apropos.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#39 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » November 5th, 2019, 6:39 pm

Not sure what pandemic of vinfanticide you mean in this thread, Nathan, but whatever you do don't go looking at the 2019 WOTY thread ;)!
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#40 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 5th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Nathan just needed to inject his usual Debbie Downer attitude.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#41 Post by alan weinberg » November 5th, 2019, 6:47 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 6:41 pm
Nathan just needed to inject his usual Debbie Downer attitude.
I found his comment funny this time. And true.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#42 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 5th, 2019, 11:56 pm

Joshua Kates wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 5:57 pm
Have any thoughts on when the '07's might be ready. I have the regular Chambolle and the Musigny in that year; the only ones I own, perhaps for obvious reasons.

Thanks in advance!
As I wrote above, I think that the Bonnes-Mares 2007 must be ready today ...
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#43 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 5th, 2019, 11:59 pm

Joshua Kates wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 5:57 pm
Have any thoughts on when the '07's might be ready. I have the regular Chambolle and the Musigny in that year; the only ones I own, perhaps for obvious reasons.

Thanks in advance!
As I wrote above, I think that the Bonnes-Mares 2007 must be ready today ...
www.invinoveritastoulouse.fr

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#44 Post by Joshua Kates » November 6th, 2019, 1:24 pm

Laurent Gibet wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 11:59 pm
Joshua Kates wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 5:57 pm
Have any thoughts on when the '07's might be ready. I have the regular Chambolle and the Musigny in that year; the only ones I own, perhaps for obvious reasons.

Thanks in advance!
As I wrote above, I think that the Bonnes-Mares 2007 must be ready today ...
Thanks, Laurent,

My sense is the Musigny generally takes more time, but obviously the villages should be in a good spot!

Best,
Josh
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#45 Post by g.colangelo » November 6th, 2019, 3:20 pm

Some years ago I had the luck to participate to a wonderful tasting in which, in the final three flights, the Bonnes Mares, Amoureuses and Musigny by Roumier and Vogue were compared blind. Comments on the tasting are here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113254&p=1717868#p1717868
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#46 Post by PCLIN » November 6th, 2019, 4:51 pm

Had ‘07 Vogue Bonne Mares few months ago, good wine and ready to go.
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#47 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 6th, 2019, 5:18 pm

PCLIN wrote:
November 6th, 2019, 4:51 pm
Had ‘07 Vogue Bonne Mares few months ago, good wine and ready to go.
A Grand Cru probably in a good spot ...
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#48 Post by Eric Ifune » November 7th, 2019, 3:10 pm

The 1993 Musigny was unready two years ago.

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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#49 Post by Scott Brunson » November 9th, 2019, 9:31 am

Laurent Gibet wrote:
November 6th, 2019, 5:18 pm
PCLIN wrote:
November 6th, 2019, 4:51 pm
Had ‘07 Vogue Bonne Mares few months ago, good wine and ready to go.
A Grand Cru probably in a good spot ...
It was indeed in a good spot on Thursday.
Unfortunately it was competing against a 98 Roumier BM...
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Re: Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

#50 Post by Laurent Gibet » November 9th, 2019, 4:57 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
November 9th, 2019, 9:31 am
Laurent Gibet wrote:
November 6th, 2019, 5:18 pm
PCLIN wrote:
November 6th, 2019, 4:51 pm
Had ‘07 Vogue Bonne Mares few months ago, good wine and ready to go.
A Grand Cru probably in a good spot ...
It was indeed in a good spot on Thursday.
Unfortunately it was competing against a 98 Roumier BM...
The richness of red burgundies ...
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