The polemic St-Emilion Pavie 2003

Last saturday, dinner with 10 friends in Bordeaux, all wine lovers, wine experts, tasting blind …

St-Emilion Pavie 2003 : 16,5/20 (let’s say 91/100)
Expression particulièrement mûre, au boisé épicé : gelée de cassis, confiture de fraise, pruneau, viande fumée, bouquet garni. Extrême en effet, avec un début d’évolution (le vin est à boire).
Matière évidemment riche, onctueuse, corsée, de bonne longueur mais n’ayant rien d’exceptionnel (j’avais eu la même impression il y a quelques années avec Pavie 2000, solaire, monté aux nues par certains critiques). Bref, beaucoup de bruit pour rien (et un vin excessivement cher).

J’entends comme pronostic :

  • vin du Languedoc
  • Trévallon
  • Super-Toscan
  • Bordeaux très maquillé, manquant d’élégance

Thanks for the note Laurent. About what I expected.

Ouch.

Thanks, Laurent, your description corresponds to my impressions when I tasted it once eight or nine years ago. I thought I was tasting a Languedoc VDP Merlot from a hot year. Each to their own, I suppose.

I don’t know why “ouch.” It’s not like the review was bad. He just said there was nothing special about it, and it wasn’t worth all of the controversy over the wine. It’s interesting (to me) that he picked up smoked meat, which I also picked up on a recent bottle of 2003 Pavie Macquin (yes, different producers).

For me, Pavie 2003 certainly doesn’t deserve such a high rating.
I would like to know how Luis Gutierrez (and even Jancis Robinson) would rate it today.

Jeff Leve loves this wine, let’s see if he wants to bother with internet polemics about it (wouldn’t blame him if he took a pass honestly).

Never had the 03 Pavie myself but I have noticed that a lot of overextracted pruney right bank wines (not just Pavie) seem to get inflated ratings. Despite the post-Parker course correction it’s still much safer criticism and price-wise for a wine to err on the side of being too heavy and unctuous than too light and crisp.

Doesn’t sound like a whole lot of integration or complexity going on there. The wine seems to be a hit with the majority of the unwashed masses on CT, yet remains a stalking horse for some. I bought 2 bottles precisely because of the controversy. Still waiting to open one to see for myself.

Let us know …

Btw, I met Jeff Leve during a very interesting verticale at Les Carmes Haut-Brion (2014/1915) …
We fully agreed on the venerable 1915.

I was really not the more severe rater on this Pavie 2003.
I also heard “dry finish”, which is not unusual with 2003.

Note : followed a great Montrose 1996 (18/20) … and many other excellent expressions (Rousseau Chambertin 2008 - wait, Rayas 2003, Clos des Lambrays 2006, …).

Based on your note I think I’ll give them another few years in hopes of something more interesting developing. Not holding my breath.

I had dinner with Jeff a number of years ago in LA. Very much enjoyed his perspective though we had nothing that old… I gravitate to older wines with greater complexity but appreciate the fruit forward ones to a point.

I had a bottle around age 10 with some BWE friends and liked it a lot. Thought it was pretty awesome actually.

I don’t imagine any possible improvment through times for this Pavie 2003 (in terms of complexity or balance and the wine already developes tertiary smellings).
The dry finish will probably increase (for me, it was acceptable when pairing with the wild boar).
At least fot the bottle I opened.

Since I have 2, I’ll put one in the queue to try soon.

The other 2003 I bought based on the controversy at the time was the Cos d’Estournel. I popped one last year. It was ripe, lush, and very fruit forward, but not jammy, and it was well enough balanced. Very ripe and concentrated, no Bordeaux complexity but it didn’t come across as Napa-esque either. No doubt disappointing to the AFWE crowd but I liked it.

What does AFWE mean ?

Last time I had the 2003 about five years ago, it was still overextracted, overripe and had no counterbalancing acidity.

AFWE = Anti-Flavor Wine Elite. It’s a dig on those who like their wines on the leaner side. And for some who like their wines on the leaner side, perhaps a badge of honour.

It stands for “Anti Flavor Wine Elitists”. It was an ironic title people who preferred less over-extracted / alcoholic / overripe wines adopted for themselves after Parker accused people who didn’t like big wines as being somehow against flavor and against wines that tasted good. So it’s a bit of an inside joke.

Greetings from Japan! When did I become shy about sharing opinions ?:thinking::grin:

You cannot make blanket statements about 03 Saint Emilion wines because the terroir varies from clay to gravel to sand and limestone. Each of those souls handled the heat and dry conditions differently.

I like, but don’t love 03 Pavie. It’s a good, but not great wine that is not as interesting today as it was 5/8 years ago. My guess is it will become even less interesting over time.
.
I have yearly notes on 03 Pavie on my site. It was interesting to track the development of the wine over time when I grabbed the link just now.

Thank you Laurent for leading another instalment of a fascinating wine appreciation saga written richly with big characters and strong opinions. I first tasted this wine in 2006 when , in a line-up of the best 2003’s, it stood out as presenting not badly but very atypically. I called it a look-alike for a characterful local Central Victorian Shiraz/Cab Franc blend from a warm year.

Step forward to 2018 and here it was served completely blind to our wine group at a Super Tuscan dinner with a very consistent response across the 9 of us summarised in my Cellartracker note : Wine Dinner #161 - Super-Tuscans (Urbane Restaurant, Brisbane): A ring-in served blind in a line-up of Super-Tuscans this wine cried out Right Bank Bordeaux with an extra structure and minerality that with the Masseto fruit may have added up to perfection. The surprise was that it was the 2003 Pavie as it tasted very correct with lovely dark plum, blackcurrant, cassis, violet and truffle inflected fruit that was perfectly balanced by its structure. Clearly the terroir is winning through here as the seemingly over the top character I discerned when I tasted this in 2006 has been tamed by time. A lovely and typical bottle of high quality St Emilion.

Its interesting to consider the setting and how this stood out in this company but served blind it was a surprise to all. Ultimately perhaps terroir will out but given the highly variable nature of the year we were all uncharacteristically silent for just a short while !