When I first started into white Burgundies, Saint Aubin 1er crus were my go to for value. In the 2011-14 vintages, I could get good producers (e.g. Lamy, Marc Colin) and top flight vineyards (e.g. En Remilly, Chatenière) usually in the $40 to $50 range and sometimes less. By the 2017 vintage, the prices I paid for these producers and vineyards have generally moved to the $50-$60 range with Lamy even higher. The Colin-Morey wines, higher to begin with, have moved well north of $70 and become harder for me to source.
In contrast to Saint Aubin, the prices I pay for the Meursault Lieux-dits (e.g. Narvaux or Tillets) from good producers (e.g. Boyer-Martenot or Javillier) have remained in the $50-55 range over this period and increasingly this is where I’m looking for value. Obviously, these are different wines, but to me both represent value for near to medium-term drinking (generally 3-8 years from vintage).
What are your views on the relative value of these two examples of white Burgundy? Where else to do you look for white Burgundy values, other than 1er Cru Chablis, which to me still represent some of the greatest white wine values in the world?
this has nothing to do with saint aubin and everything to do with the particular producers you mentioned. people pay for the name brand and most of the time price has little to do with quality in the bottle. i am a big advocate of moving on to the next producer and not getting too hung up on the cool factor involved with what is on the label. i must say the biggest head scratcher in saint aubin though is the jobard sentier du clou which seems to regularly be $100+
pretty much all burgundy has gotten more expensive, especially in that time frame. i doubt the 25% increase in pricing originates from the domaine.
the particular meursault producers you mentioned are undervalued but what about someone like vincent dancer. the les corbins was under $50 around the 14 vintage ($39.99 at binnys) and now the current vintage is about $100 stateside. again i doubt the price at the domaine changed much as it currently retails around 40 euro a bottle in france.
burgundy pricing is a moving target and most of the time it has to do with importers and retailers charging more.
Prices are rising faster than I can keep track of. Last price I saw for PY’s St Aubin was around $40. A friend opened a PY 2010 En Remilly I think it was the other day and it was splendid.
He paid around $20 at the time.
It just seems that the prices of all wines you ever heard of and their adjacents have just skyrocketed. Classified growths and even some cru bourgeois. Any Burgundy or northern Rhone.
I am reminded of a story told to me by a woman around 40 years ago. She bought some raspberries for $5 a small basket. The clerk said, “We have a bet going here. Are you pregnant or stoned??” You have to be insane, rich, or really crazy about wine to pay these prices.
You did way better than me on that wine, I paid $60 for the Vincent Dancer 2014 Les Corbins.
But I think we’ve gotten off track. My purpose in posting wasn’t to remark on the price increases that we’ve all observed, but to see how others viewed the relative value of Saint Aubin 1ers and Meursault Lieux-dits and where others find value in white Burgundy.
i guess my point is you can find value anywhere you look, even in famous appellations. it is still possible to find underpriced wines in addition to all the overpriced ones.
beyond this, fringe areas such as saint romain offer terrific value especially since the cooler climate benefits from the ripeness of the past few vintages. and obviously some of the best values are in the maconnais…
The best values I know are Bouchard Meursault premier crus.
In general, between villages wines from the big three villages and premier crus from other villages, I go with producers I like best. That would include Bernard Moreau, for example.
For great values at lower prices, try Aubert de Villaine’s wines from Rully and Comte Lafon’s wines from Macon.
To answer the question, I used to think Saint Aubin 1er Crus overall better values than Meursault Lieux-dits. Today I agree that the Meursaults are better value.
Of course, whatever you think of pricing for these and other white Burgundies, get ready for it to go up by 25%.
I never post on wines I import, but soon may have to decide if I feel like posting on wines I used to import, because I don’t know if I will be able to continue importing many wines I have represented for years, in some cases decades.
Specifically, I agree on the value in Aubert de Villaine’s wines from Rully. I import wines from a grower in Rully I consider at least on the same level. They are expensive for Rully but outstanding values.
I disagree on Comte Lafon’s wines from Macon. I find them of good quality and insanely overpriced.
Leaving aside the fact that I often find better value in Chardonnay from other parts of the world (South Africa, Ontario, California, Australia)…
Whenever I can I’ll taste for myself. Otherwise I’ll rely on reviewers I trust to decide between St Aubin 1ers and Villages Meursaults on a case by case basis. I’m generally uncomfortable with paying much over $100/bottle for any wine, so this has caused me to move down the ladder for a producer like PYCM from St Aubin Chatenere & En Remilly to the other 1ers and more recently getting into his lesser wines like Rully. With PYCM I find the producer signature strong enough across all of what I’ve tasted that I’m happy to move down the ladder to save some money and still get most or all of what I want inside the bottle.
I’m a fan of the PYCM Rully Les Cailloux, as well as the Montagny Les Burnins; although they’re a trifle more expensive than the straight Bourgogne I think they’re better buys
2016 Olivier Leflaive ‘Charmois’ 1er [St Aubin] 12.5% abv, light bodied, fine texture with pale straw color. Over two days it starts to show a citrus and stone character. I’m not familiar with this AOC but it tasted good to me and was happily sound, sealed under DIAM10. My sister loved it and inhaled most of the bottle. It felt deeper than a couple of the same negociant’s Pernand Vergelesses over the summer. I guess I’d give it a B or so, although my tastes run more fat Cali chardonnay, so the value proposal is not so obvious to me.
