Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#151 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 25th, 2019, 9:47 am

I have never had a breakage issue with pulp/cardboard inserts. Knock on wood.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#152 Post by aaronfullen » October 25th, 2019, 9:56 am

Markus S wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 7:41 am
aaronfullen wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:29 am
Not to be an ass here, but you talk about a world that's beautiful. A couple questions for you:

-How did the Whistling Ridge Vineyard get it's name? Probably because wind whistled through whatever trees were there before they were cut down to plant grapes, right?

-How about Fir Crest Vineyard? I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume it didn't get it's name because the ancient indigenous Pinot Noir vines were particularly Firry.

Lastly, how about Deux Vert Vineyard? Again, just one guy talking here but guessing this wasn't named after the two green Syrah and Viognier grapevines.

If you're going to clear cut little bits of the lungs of the earth so that you can grow a a delicious luxury item, it seems to me that the best way to ensure those trees didn't die in vain is to make sure that wine is 100% great.

But maybe that's just me.
Think it is just you. I don't know any of those vineyards you referenced. Most European wines are grown in places that forests don't grow (think of Spain and Sicily for example) or where trees haven't grown in hundreds of years. By the early Middle Ages, much of forested Europe was already cut down for farming and agriculture to support growing cities and population. Same with the USA. Much of the original 13 colonies, particularly where there were people settling (like MA, PA, NY, CT) had over 90% of forestland chopped down for agriculture, but look at today: most of those same areas are forested again as regrowth has occurred in roughly a hundred years. These environments are not static. But this doesn't mean you try to shepherd the (limited) resources we have now.
These are three of the vineyards from which Markus sources grapes to make wines for Goodfellow. All are in Oregon.

-af

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#153 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » October 25th, 2019, 9:45 pm

aaronfullen wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 12:42 pm
Markus S wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 12:25 pm
aaronfullen wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 1:28 pm
The environmental elephant in the room here is that we're wine drinkers. There are roughly 29,000 square miles of wine grapevines planted world-wide. That's a space roughly the size of South Carolina, not including the accompanying facilities to make the wines themselves. How much better would the environment be if that were untouched (or at least second growth) forest?
You really want to go down this route?
Think of oil palm plantations, animal grazing, lands extracted for oil-gas-minerals-building materials, green lawns on city and suburban streets...
Yep, all that too.

I just don't think you can call yourself an environmentalist if you're chilling 2000 bottles of alcohol at 55 degrees that were shipped over oceans, regardless of whether the last mile was packing peanuts, styro, ballistic gel or depleted uranium.

Until we go fast-breeder, modular nuclear and electrify everything but air-travel, the only way we'll save ourselves is to grow all our own food, max out at one kid and start using chickens as currency to buy buckskin pants that we'll wear for twenty years between showers.

I'd rather spend my very limited intellectual horsepower trying to figure out how to get my government to pull their heads out of their asses on the nuclear issue than get galloping green agita over straws and wine shippers.

-af
Don’t think I ever called myself an environmentalist. Although we do work hard to minimize the wineries impact on the environment, the use of glass bottles alone removes my feeling that we are a “green” business.

I grew up on an 80 acre timber farm. The old growth in most of the Willamette Valley has been gone for longer than the Oregon wine industry has existed. The loss of trees is something everyone should be cognizant of, but trees are renewable. Styrofoam is primarily a single use product that will spend the next million years in the landfill doing nothing but breaking down into smaller pieces. Arriving at David’s house is just the first step.

It’s an easy switch. It does cost more, and we opted to eat that cost in the winery rather than pass it on to consumers.


The strangest thing to me in your posts is how hard you are working to be able to free yourself from giving a shit. The “it’s already screwed up, so I don’t need care about any of it” comes across as trying to validate your own choices that you seem to have an issue with. You do refer to yourself as a bigger environmental pig than
99% of us. If your ok with that, then why bother to post? I’m just another environmentalist hypocrite...who cares?

Spending the time to catalogue the damage wineries do to the world so completely kind of suggests that you may care after all...
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#154 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » October 25th, 2019, 10:00 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 10:02 am
Every positive thing you do for the environment (or anything else) is a positive and better than not doing it, so I'm not discouraging anyone from advocating for better materials, reusing boxes, and so forth.

But we probably shouldn't congratulate ourselves very much for whatever we do. If we're honest, our habit of having 4 pound bottles and 48 pound cases shipped around the country and the world by plane, truck and/or boat, and all the packaging materials and energy consumption that surrounds that, is quite environmentally unfriendly.

In environmentalism, as in many other things, I've noticed there is kind of a substitution effect, where doing a few small good things (recycling, or at least dumping things in recycling bins and telling ourselves they're getting recycled, driving a Prius, sending some money to an environmental charity) alleviates our consciences for doing much larger bad things (air travel, buying tons of stuff on the internet for home delivery, owning one or more big houses). People do that all the time with morality/religion/ethics, diet, parenting, and so forth.

Probably most people who read this far are thinking "not me, that's just other people." Okay, but it's probably worth a harder look from time to time.
Great post.

Whether it alleviates my conscience or not, often small things are the things that we can do. And major change is embarassingly hard to achieve.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#155 Post by Jason T » October 26th, 2019, 2:11 am

Not to hijack this thread but it would be nice if some producers went with lighter/thinner bottles. I’m not talking about shape but weight. I’ve noticed some producers bottle weights are significantly higher than others, adding up to a couple pound difference over a case.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#156 Post by Gray G » October 26th, 2019, 6:02 am

Al Osterheld wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:49 am
Mass market wine isn't shipped in styrofoam or pulp.

-Al
you dismissed my point, as no one covets mass market wine, yet the mass wine market is propagated by styro
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#157 Post by Gray G » October 26th, 2019, 6:09 am

clearly demand for products one needs or desires from another part of the world drives a part of the economy
whether it's a vaccine, car part, or wine
the solution could be to live near the hospital and not ship the vaccine in huge styro boxes
parts for lunar landers/Mars landers will now be printed on site via 3D printers
look a like wines of any vintage/region/grape will one day be made in labs down the street from you and you and you
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#158 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 26th, 2019, 7:50 am

Jason T wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:11 am
Not to hijack this thread but it would be nice if some producers went with lighter/thinner bottles. I’m not talking about shape but weight. I’ve noticed some producers bottle weights are significantly higher than others, adding up to a couple pound difference over a case.
Yes. I wish everyone used bottles similar to those used by Hardy Wallace for D&R.

Worth noting that Hardy’s wines arrive at my home yesterday. In styro. No flecks of styro though. That’s something.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#159 Post by Al Osterheld » October 26th, 2019, 9:37 am

Gray G wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 6:02 am
Al Osterheld wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:49 am
Mass market wine isn't shipped in styrofoam or pulp.

-Al
you dismissed my point, as no one covets mass market wine, yet the mass wine market is propagated by styro
I didn't intend to dismiss your point. but I guess I'm still confused. The overwhelming majority of wine is sold in stores rather than direct from winery to consumer, including the premium wine segment. I suspect more premium wine is sold to consumers who carry it out than to remote purchasers (and the trip to them is only one leg of the journey). Your purchases may be mostly propagated by styro, but don't think that generalizes to "the mass wine market".

-Al

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#160 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » October 26th, 2019, 9:51 am

Jason T wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:11 am
Not to hijack this thread but it would be nice if some producers went with lighter/thinner bottles. I’m not talking about shape but weight. I’ve noticed some producers bottle weights are significantly higher than others, adding up to a couple pound difference over a case.
Please hijack away with this.

I use a medium weight fancy bottle because if you look at the top shelf in most wine shops, the bottles are either high end European producers or big bottles(sometimes the wine is both).

As a smaller Willamette Valley producer, I started with a pretty traditional, and lighter, bottle. The glass really doesn’t impact wine quality, but shape and size is meaningful in packaging. I’m hopeful that there will be a wave of consumer preference for lighter bottles(that also fit most racking and wine storage) and the more that we express that lighter is important, and drives our choices, the sooner it will happen. The benefits of lighter glass range from environmental impact all the way to saving the backs of aging winemakers.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#161 Post by Gray G » October 28th, 2019, 5:56 pm

how about shipping water to Los Angeles via the Delta Mendota Canal, how stupid is that...yet no styro involved

LA is a desert, watch it burn :(
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#162 Post by Dan Kravitz » October 28th, 2019, 6:23 pm

In general, deserts don't burn, because there is very little there to burn. Forested hills above deserts are another story. Deserts that are artificially packed tightly with flammable materials are also another story. Whether or not you consider areas made more flammable by human intervention a negative, I prefer not to see them burn, especially if humans are put at risk. Even though I'm not a big fan of humans.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#163 Post by Markus S » October 29th, 2019, 5:07 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 9:51 am
Jason T wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:11 am
Not to hijack this thread but it would be nice if some producers went with lighter/thinner bottles. I’m not talking about shape but weight. I’ve noticed some producers bottle weights are significantly higher than others, adding up to a couple pound difference over a case.
Please hijack away with this.

I use a medium weight fancy bottle because if you look at the top shelf in most wine shops, the bottles are either high end European producers or big bottles(sometimes the wine is both).

As a smaller Willamette Valley producer, I started with a pretty traditional, and lighter, bottle. The glass really doesn’t impact wine quality, but shape and size is meaningful in packaging. I’m hopeful that there will be a wave of consumer preference for lighter bottles(that also fit most racking and wine storage) and the more that we express that lighter is important, and drives our choices, the sooner it will happen. The benefits of lighter glass range from environmental impact all the way to saving the backs of aging winemakers.
I've always loved Tempier's bottles: they are quite thin-walled but so easy to pour.
There are some producers that make such heavy bottles which I won't give a second look to, figuring if they care so much about appearances on the outside, they must be covering up dross on the inside.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#164 Post by Jason T » October 29th, 2019, 6:50 am

Domaine Argyros (winery in Santorini) is guilty of that. They make a perfectly quaffable blend of Assyrtiko and some other grape that is like 15 GBP/bottle here in London. I picked one up the other day and did a double take - glass felt more like a magnum of cult Napa cab. Kind of ridiculous.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#165 Post by Mattstolz » December 20th, 2019, 3:28 am

wanted to resurrect this with a cool new shipping thing.

my shipment from D'Artagnan came in a "cooler" made out of strips of biodegradable and toxin-free-burning packing peanut like sheets. it insulated really well (all frozen items were still frozen) and provided plenty of cushion during transit. If this could be formed into a 12 slotted case like they formed it into a makeshift cooler, it would be a great wine shipping material. it was also wrapped in a plastic that they claimed was made from corn and dissolvable in water. pretty cool packaging overall

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#166 Post by YLee » December 20th, 2019, 4:53 am

Mattstolz wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 3:28 am
wanted to resurrect this with a cool new shipping thing.

my shipment from D'Artagnan came in a "cooler" made out of strips of biodegradable and toxin-free-burning packing peanut like sheets. it insulated really well (all frozen items were still frozen) and provided plenty of cushion during transit. If this could be formed into a 12 slotted case like they formed it into a makeshift cooler, it would be a great wine shipping material. it was also wrapped in a plastic that they claimed was made from corn and dissolvable in water. pretty cool packaging overall
Do you have a picture of it?
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#167 Post by Robert M yers » December 20th, 2019, 5:16 am

C4D5938D-DCA4-4CD6-A30F-4FB63E16BACD.jpeg
I received this packaging from a retailer the other day. It is more compact than styrofoam shipper but it had to be 5 to 8 pounds heavier? There is no way bottles are breaking in this thing with its thick heavy cardboard. Seems like a better option to me.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#168 Post by Neal.Mollen » December 20th, 2019, 5:31 am

Gray G wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 6:02 am
Al Osterheld wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 6:49 am
Mass market wine isn't shipped in styrofoam or pulp.

-Al
you dismissed my point, as no one covets mass market wine, yet the mass wine market is propagated by styro
I do not understand this post. How does styro "propagate" the mass wine market?
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#169 Post by Sarah S » December 20th, 2019, 11:42 am

YLee wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 4:53 am
Mattstolz wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 3:28 am
wanted to resurrect this with a cool new shipping thing.

my shipment from D'Artagnan came in a "cooler" made out of strips of biodegradable and toxin-free-burning packing peanut like sheets. it insulated really well (all frozen items were still frozen) and provided plenty of cushion during transit. If this could be formed into a 12 slotted case like they formed it into a makeshift cooler, it would be a great wine shipping material. it was also wrapped in a plastic that they claimed was made from corn and dissolvable in water. pretty cool packaging overall
Do you have a picture of it?

Here’s a shot of the D’Artagnan packaging:
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#170 Post by Hank Victor » December 20th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Robert M yers wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 5:16 am
C4D5938D-DCA4-4CD6-A30F-4FB63E16BACD.jpeg

I received this packaging from a retailer the other day. It is more compact than styrofoam shipper but it had to be 5 to 8 pounds heavier? There is no way bottles are breaking in this thing with its thick heavy cardboard. Seems like a better option to me.
Those are spirited shipper inserts.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#171 Post by Carole Meredith » December 20th, 2019, 1:56 pm

Since our name was mentioned a couple of time in this discussion, I just want to let you know that we no longer use styrofoam shippers.
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#172 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » December 20th, 2019, 2:11 pm

Thanks Carole!
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#173 Post by Mattstolz » December 20th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Sarah S wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 11:42 am
YLee wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 4:53 am
Mattstolz wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 3:28 am
wanted to resurrect this with a cool new shipping thing.

my shipment from D'Artagnan came in a "cooler" made out of strips of biodegradable and toxin-free-burning packing peanut like sheets. it insulated really well (all frozen items were still frozen) and provided plenty of cushion during transit. If this could be formed into a 12 slotted case like they formed it into a makeshift cooler, it would be a great wine shipping material. it was also wrapped in a plastic that they claimed was made from corn and dissolvable in water. pretty cool packaging overall
Do you have a picture of it?

Here’s a shot of the D’Artagnan packaging:
Thanks Sarah. I thought it was a great shipping option. I would pay an extra couple bucks for it if it had to be offered as a more expensive choice.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#174 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am

Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#175 Post by Philip N. Jones » April 8th, 2020, 8:50 am

I am lucky. I have found two places here in Oregon that accept styrofoam for recycling, with no fee to be paid, and I happen to own a house near (somewhat) each of them. Yippee!
But for the other 99% of you, not so lucky.
My local winemonger also takes them. Sometimes. But I have not tried to foist any off onto him during this virus mess.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#176 Post by Brandon R » April 8th, 2020, 8:51 am

Yikes - what a mess, David. Yet more reason to hate this crap. Good thing you can easily recy...oh wait.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#177 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 8th, 2020, 9:17 am

local wine shop will take all the shippers I can give them.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#178 Post by Brandon R » April 8th, 2020, 10:40 am

No wine shops will ever take shippers in the state like David posted, though. About 50% of the styro ones I receive are broken through in at least one spot. My offsite also takes styro shippers ONLY when there is zero damage to them. I'm "lucky" in Seattle in that our local waste station takes and recycles styrofoam. Many don't have the option, and that also means I have to spend the time and fuel and emissions to drop them off.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#179 Post by TomC » April 8th, 2020, 11:18 am

Philip N. Jones wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:50 am
I am lucky. I have found two places here in Oregon that accept styrofoam for recycling, with no fee to be paid, and I happen to own a house near (somewhat) each of them. Yippee!
But for the other 99% of you, not so lucky.
My local winemonger also takes them. Sometimes. But I have not tried to foist any off onto him during this virus mess.
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Details on these two places?
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#180 Post by Mel Knox » April 8th, 2020, 11:42 am

Perhaps a little mindfulness in order. If one is shipping wine from Sonoma to the East Bay, something made out of cardboard should work.
If one is shipping expensive wine to the East Coast in the middle of summer because somebody wants to serve young cabernet at their Fourth of July party, perhaps the plastic shipper could be returned and used again. Or maybe the shipment could be delayed until autumn.

I ve received wine in styro shippers that were falling apart but I have never had a problem with the cardboard ones.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#181 Post by Keith_B » April 8th, 2020, 12:16 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am
Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
Similar look for my O&F shipment. What a mess to clean up!
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#182 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 8th, 2020, 12:30 pm

Keith_B wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 12:16 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am
Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
Similar look for my O&F shipment. What a mess to clean up!
Third time in a row like this.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#183 Post by Paul Miller » April 8th, 2020, 12:35 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am
Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
Looking at your picture of the cats.... I had a similar order one time that was a mess. Turned my head, and one of our B&W cats had jumped into the box. You want to talk about a mess!!!

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#184 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 8th, 2020, 12:43 pm

The box has never come in from the garage. I have had that cat issue in the past with packing peanuts.
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#185 Post by Philip N. Jones » April 8th, 2020, 7:12 pm

The two places in Oregon:
Agilyx Corporation in Tigard. With a name like that, it won’t be difficult to Google. Review the map carefully, as they are difficult to find.
The Tillamook County transfer station in Manzanita. But it may be that all of the transfer stations in Tillamook County will work.
Phil Jones

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#186 Post by R. Halbert » April 8th, 2020, 11:43 pm

Absolutely love styro shippers. Keep them coming!!!
Rich

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#187 Post by Peter Shurman » April 9th, 2020, 7:40 am

sigh ... different strokes for different folks.

BAN styro shippers.
keeping those ITB in business

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#188 Post by John Danza » April 9th, 2020, 7:48 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am
Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
Not all styro shippers are made alike. I have received some like David received, where the bottoms blew out. These are useless. However I have some that were rock solid both top and bottom.

Frankly, I don't care what the winery/retailer ships in as long as my wine arrives 100% intact. That's my sole concern.
John Danza

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#189 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 9th, 2020, 7:51 am

John Danza wrote:
April 9th, 2020, 7:48 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:35 am
Once & Future arrival from this week.
0DB8DE52-7593-4723-916D-AA0E8691300D.jpeg
Not all styro shippers are made alike. I have received some like David received, where the bottoms blew out. These are useless. However I have some that were rock solid both top and bottom.

Frankly, I don't care what the winery/retailer ships in as long as my wine arrives 100% intact. That's my sole concern.
You clearly have a more understanding spouse.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#190 Post by Brandon R » April 9th, 2020, 8:26 am

R. Halbert wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 11:43 pm
Absolutely love styro shippers. Keep them coming!!!
How come, Rich? If other shippers protect your wine just the same, why not be a fan of versions that can be easily recycled or, better yet, composted?
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#191 Post by markjchambers » April 9th, 2020, 8:52 am

My Spring wine shipments have arrived and none were in styrofoam. That said I still have a few saved for wine touring, if I ever do that again.
I have used many stereo shippers full of wine as checked baggage on several flights and never had breakage even though some boxes have been beat to hell. Not
sure cardboard would take the additional punishment.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#192 Post by Scott G r u n e r » April 9th, 2020, 9:40 am

I won't order a second time from anyone that sends in styro- and I tell them that. Of course I can't think of anyone that has shipped styro to me in the last year...
//Cynic

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#193 Post by PaulMills » April 9th, 2020, 5:32 pm

I have received six shipments in the last two weeks, only one was Styro. I always give my shippers to a local shop when I can.

I will not turn down shippers from people who use styro. Why, because we do so many other things to screw the environment that the styro is less than coal rolling diesel trucks (and VWs), planes, NASCAR, cruise ships, and a lot of other crap. We are bad peiple, all of us.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#194 Post by Scott Jameson » April 9th, 2020, 6:11 pm

Maybe it's my local FedEx and UPS distribution centers/drivers, but ... I've never received a broken bottle shipped in styro. I get a shipment packed in egg crate/pulp with broken bottles about once a year.

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#195 Post by Dan Kravitz » April 9th, 2020, 6:20 pm

I've got mixed feelings. Anybody who thinks it's easy being green does not know what they are talking about.

I've often thought that plastic could possibly be as big a problem as global warming to the whole planet, but it's a lot harder to measure the damage. The huge worldwide spike in cancer over the past century is hard to attribute, but I have to believe that plastic plays a significant role. And look at the oceans, and look what's in the fish you eat.

I instructed my office to move to strictly cardboard shippers, as the good ones provide at least the same degree of protection from breakage. I don't know their resistance to temperature, I'm guessing that even the really heavy, sturdy ones are not quite as good as styrofoam. They can be re-used multiple times. But I also have to think about the carbon footprint. The brick-shithouse quality cardboard ones weigh at least double, my guess is close to triple the weight of styro. If you hate styro (and I do), please think about the possible impact of the alternatives.

Just as with styro, there are lots of quality and weight variations in cardboard. I've had a few broken bottles with 'egg crate' shippers, never ever with the heavy cardboard ones. The ones with the push-out tops and bottoms and double thick cardboard have to be the best for both safety and temperature insulation, but they weigh a ton.

Not all shipments of wine can be transported in standard cardboard cases, although I'd guess that's close to 99% of bottled wine. But how to move the rest (which is inevitably valuable) is not an easy question to resolve.

Dan Kravitz
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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#196 Post by Alex N » April 9th, 2020, 6:27 pm

I shipped wine to my family on Monday and the UPS store guy asked me to verify that I had packaged the bottles in styrofoam shippers.
@13x N1ch•!z

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#197 Post by Nate Simon » April 9th, 2020, 6:36 pm

Berserkers: “I’m very concerned about the environmental impact of shipping materials. I would gladly pay for a winery to use environmentally friendly shippers.“

Also, Berserkers: “I’m very concerned about temperature fluctuations during the shipment of my wine. Also, shipping should be free!”

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#198 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » April 9th, 2020, 6:40 pm

I just don’t want styro shit everywhere, and I will gladly pay for shipping!
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#199 Post by Brandon R » April 10th, 2020, 8:51 am

PaulMills wrote:
April 9th, 2020, 5:32 pm
I have received six shipments in the last two weeks, only one was Styro. I always give my shippers to a local shop when I can.

I will not turn down shippers from people who use styro. Why, because we do so many other things to screw the environment that the styro is less than coal rolling diesel trucks (and VWs), planes, NASCAR, cruise ships, and a lot of other crap. We are bad peiple, all of us.
But if you're able to do something about it, even in a very small way, why wouldn't you? I can't stop Nascar. I can't stop coal trains. I can stop buying from places that use styrofoam.
B. Redman

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Re: Wineries please note - I am sick of styro shippers

#200 Post by Dan Kravitz » April 10th, 2020, 6:16 pm

to Brandon R:

You have my personal guarantee that I hate styrofoam as much as you do, maybe more, because I'm obsessed with plastic pollution.

But I also think about the weight and carbon use of what I ship. And cardboard weights a lot more. And the really effective cardboard (protection from both breakage and heat) weighs far, far more. I haven't put them on a scale, but I'm guessing that the best cardboard is 12-pack is 5x the weight of typical styrofoam.

However I'm with you on this one. Global warming is happening NOW! Cardboard has been happening with almost completely unmeasured consequences. Plastic was (formally) invented in 1856! Plastic currently accounts for about 10% of all material in landfills, and who the tonnage in oceans (and the food chain) is terrifying.

We're using cardboard. Mostly eggshell, but when weather and/or importance and/or value figure in, we use the push-out top and bottom heavy stuff.

Dan Kravitz
swillmaster - ITB

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