Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

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Vikrant Rachakonda
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Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#1 Post by Vikrant Rachakonda » October 5th, 2019, 10:36 am

I have little experience with very old Bordeaux > 20-30 years old, but the last few 2000 Bordeaux I have opened this year were all excellent, including a 2000 Gruaud Larose, 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste, and a 2000 Clinet. Of course this is a small sample size, but I think these wines are very approachable now.

Just curious what others think, or am I committing infanticide by opening these?

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#2 Post by Brian Thorne » October 5th, 2019, 10:38 am

From my recent experiences, I think many of 2000 Bordeaux are entering their drinking window. Still youthful, but developing enjoyable and complex secondary aromas + flavors. Branaire Ducru, Grand Puy Lacoste, Pichon Lalande, Pontet Canet, Léoville Poyferré, Smith Haut Lafitte, Troplong Mondot were all drinking beautifully when opened in the last year or so. That said, I think all of them will continue to evolve and improve, where well stored. Other recent bottles that were still quite primary and tight as a drum include Pichon Baron, Ducru-Beaucaillou, and Angelus.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#3 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 5th, 2019, 10:57 am

Ironically, I’m popping a 2000 Montrose tonight, will circle back. I’ve had quite a few 2000s over the past year, and concur, they are young but entering a comfortable drinking window. Ideally a wine like Montrose would be something I pop with more years on it, but a client of mine wan the s to try it at dinner tonight. He’s bringing a 2005, which is way too young.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#4 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am

Coincidentally not ironically.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#5 Post by Craig G » October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am
Coincidentally not ironically.
Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#6 Post by Howard Cooper » October 5th, 2019, 11:17 am

Vikrant Rachakonda wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:36 am
I have little experience with very old Bordeaux > 20-30 years old, but the last few 2000 Bordeaux I have opened this year were all excellent, including a 2000 Gruaud Larose, 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste, and a 2000 Clinet. Of course this is a small sample size, but I think these wines are very approachable now.

Just curious what others think, or am I committing infanticide by opening these?
IF you like them now, how can it be infanticide? Always better to drink a wine a bit young than a bit old.
Howard

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#7 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am

Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am
Coincidentally not ironically.
Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#8 Post by Mark Thompson » October 5th, 2019, 11:39 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am
Coincidentally not ironically.
Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.
That makes it Craig’s fault. [rofl.gif]

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#9 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 5th, 2019, 11:45 am

Aww...sarcasm hurts.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#10 Post by Pat Martin » October 5th, 2019, 1:54 pm

Mark Thompson wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:39 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am


Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.
That makes it Craig’s fault. [rofl.gif]
How ironic.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#11 Post by Mark Y » October 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm

Have had quite a few 2000 bdx in the past few months. Youthful but definitely spot in and very enjoyable.
I’d say it’s drink or hold time.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#12 Post by Yao C » October 5th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Vikrant Rachakonda wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:36 am
I have little experience with very old Bordeaux > 20-30 years old, but the last few 2000 Bordeaux I have opened this year were all excellent, including a 2000 Gruaud Larose, 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste, and a 2000 Clinet. Of course this is a small sample size, but I think these wines are very approachable now.

Just curious what others think, or am I committing infanticide by opening these?
2000 Gruaud was my WOTN a couple months back, and I've also loved the 2000 Lynch Bages and Pichon Lalande. To my taste (I tend to like them older) they'd generally benefit from a few more years but there's no harm drinking them now
C h 0 o n 6

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#13 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 5th, 2019, 2:30 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 1:54 pm
Mark Thompson wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:39 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am


David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.
That makes it Craig’s fault. [rofl.gif]
How ironic.
Isn’t it?

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#14 Post by Howard Cooper » October 5th, 2019, 4:43 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:57 am
Ironically, I’m popping a 2000 Montrose tonight, will circle back. I’ve had quite a few 2000s over the past year, and concur, they are young but entering a comfortable drinking window. Ideally a wine like Montrose would be something I pop with more years on it, but a client of mine wan the s to try it at dinner tonight. He’s bringing a 2005, which is way too young.
The 2005 is way too young, but that doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable - it is a really good wine.
Howard

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#15 Post by Craig G » October 5th, 2019, 5:20 pm

In my opinion, there’s no shame or harm in drinking Bordeaux young or in-between age as long as it’s not closed down. The thing that makes me sad is reading about people who bought a half case or case of a wine and drank most of the bottles when it was shut down. There are a zillion such cases in CT.

Some wines like 89 Lynch Bages have always drunk well, though arguably the wine is still not mature (some might say “not ready” but I might claim it always was). IMO there was no bad time to drink it, and likely that will be true for decades to come. But some other vintages of LB shut down and there would be times when it really didn’t pay to drink them (I’ve read this about 2000 Lynch Bages but haven’t tasted it myself). I expect there are 00s of both types. I’ve mostly sat on my 00s due to personal preference, but I will probably try some bottles before long.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#16 Post by Nathan Smyth » October 5th, 2019, 5:35 pm

In the old days, a gentleman [of a certain age] would never open a bottle from a Bordeaux vintage of the caliber of A.D. 2000, simply because he [as a gentleman] understood instinctively that those wines were meant to be consumed by his grandchildren or his greatgrandchildren.

But folks nowadays seem to have lost sight of The Big Picture.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#17 Post by Pat Martin » October 5th, 2019, 6:02 pm

Petite Chateaux from 2000 are drinking well and have been for a good 5 years or so. For me, the grand cru stuff needs more time to peak, but there’s pleasure to be had today for all but the most structured wines.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#18 Post by Greg K » October 5th, 2019, 6:03 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:45 am
Aww...sarcasm hurts.
Not sarcasm, pedantry.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#19 Post by Pat Martin » October 5th, 2019, 6:05 pm

Greg K wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:03 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:45 am
Aww...sarcasm hurts.
Not sarcasm, pedantry.
Nice!
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#20 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 5th, 2019, 6:12 pm

It was actually sarcastic pedantry.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#21 Post by Craig G » October 5th, 2019, 6:15 pm

We prefer pedantic sarcasm.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#22 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 5th, 2019, 6:23 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:15 pm
We prefer pedantic sarcasm.
Is that a collective “we”?

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#23 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 5th, 2019, 6:25 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:15 pm
We prefer pedantic sarcasm.
Or a royal “we”?

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#24 Post by Craig G » October 5th, 2019, 6:26 pm

We prefer ambiguity too.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#25 Post by Greg K » October 5th, 2019, 6:27 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:12 pm
It was actually sarcastic pedantry.
It was not. It was simply pedantry.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#26 Post by Greg K » October 5th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:26 pm
We prefer ambiguity too.
Whether pedantry, sarcasm or both, we prefer it be funny.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#27 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 5th, 2019, 6:31 pm

But back to the actual question...

Lesser 2000 Bordeaux have been drinking well for a while. As for the big guns (i.e. classed growths/equivalents) I think there is going to be an issue for them. They won’t necessarily be hard and/or charmless like say 1995, but the hype from way back will create expectations that the wines are not likely to meet. 2000 was never a plush vintage, with tons of fruity depth to create rich, complex old wines. It was closer to classically styled Bordeaux, especially when compared to 2005, 2009, 2010 and so on. It should eventually make delicious wine, but likely not in a user-friendly style.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#28 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 5th, 2019, 6:32 pm

Greg K wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:28 pm
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:26 pm
We prefer ambiguity too.
Whether pedantry, sarcasm or both, we prefer it be funny.
I’ll let you know when I give a damn. It will be a long wait.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#29 Post by Greg K » October 5th, 2019, 6:34 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:32 pm
Greg K wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:28 pm
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:26 pm
We prefer ambiguity too.
Whether pedantry, sarcasm or both, we prefer it be funny.
I’ll let you know when I give a damn. It will be a long wait.
Thank you David. We’ll all appreciate prompt notification of when you finally post something funny.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#30 Post by Craig G » October 5th, 2019, 6:38 pm

The most recent one I had was Pontet Canet. It was very good and fairly open but my notes say “fiercely tannic.” It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of the better wines were like that now.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#31 Post by Greg K » October 5th, 2019, 6:53 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:38 pm
The most recent one I had was Pontet Canet. It was very good and fairly open but my notes say “fiercely tannic.” It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of the better wines were like that now.
I think the 2000 Pontet Canet is reasonably approachable now after a bit of a decant. On the other hand, I thought the 2000 Lynch Bages was nowhere near ready a few months ago.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#32 Post by JC J o u a s » October 5th, 2019, 8:44 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:57 am
Ironically, I’m popping a 2000 Montrose tonight, will circle back. I’ve had quite a few 2000s over the past year, and concur, they are young but entering a comfortable drinking window. Ideally a wine like Montrose would be something I pop with more years on it, but a client of mine wan the s to try it at dinner tonight. He’s bringing a 2005, which is way too young.
Had both the 2000 and the 2005 at a Montrose dinner amongst a bunch of enthusiasts earlier this year and the 2005 was more expressive and enjoyable than the 2000 was that night, but I would be def be interested to hear your thoughts and experience so please report back.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#33 Post by James Billy » October 6th, 2019, 2:25 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am
Coincidentally not ironically.
Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.
True. I've been close to blocking him, too, but he does have a lot of useful knowledge to add when he behaves himself.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#34 Post by James Billy » October 6th, 2019, 2:28 am

Greg K wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:27 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:12 pm
It was actually sarcastic pedantry.
It was not. It was simply pedantry.
Yes. When he questioned my palate, he defended his comment by later saying he was being sarcastic, too.

So in his lexicon, to be sarcastic means to be a wanker
[rofl.gif]

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#35 Post by James Billy » October 6th, 2019, 2:36 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:45 am
Aww...sarcasm hurts.
So does too much masturbation.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#36 Post by Robert Sand » October 6th, 2019, 3:20 am

Vikrant Rachakonda wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:36 am
I have little experience with very old Bordeaux > 20-30 years old, but the last few 2000 Bordeaux I have opened this year were all excellent, including a 2000 Gruaud Larose, 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste, and a 2000 Clinet. Of course this is a small sample size, but I think these wines are very approachable now.

Just curious what others think, or am I committing infanticide by opening these?
FWIW, I had several 2000s over the last weeks. While the better crus might be called close to approachable (meaning there is no wall of hard tannin in the way) most are still very primary and are lacking mature aromas and depth. I´m also not convinced that the oak is always fully integrated, resulting in a slightly dry finish, something most right bank 1998s do not show anymore.
Who wants to drink his 2000s in this state of evolution - ok. And I understand the urgencies of an oenophil emergency.
But I personally will wait at least another 5 years even for the lesser Crus, excluding the very minor cru bourgeoise or St.Emilion non classified wines.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#37 Post by Robert Sand » October 6th, 2019, 3:27 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 5:35 pm
In the old days, a gentleman [of a certain age] would never open a bottle from a Bordeaux vintage of the caliber of A.D. 2000, simply because he [as a gentleman] understood instinctively that those wines were meant to be consumed by his grandchildren or his greatgrandchildren.

But folks nowadays seem to have lost sight of The Big Picture.
There is definitely some truth in this.
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 6:31 pm

2000 was never a plush vintage, with tons of fruity depth to create rich, complex old wines. It was closer to classically styled Bordeaux, especially when compared to 2005, 2009, 2010 and so on. It should eventually make delicious wine, but likely not in a user-friendly style.
I disagree with that. I´d say 2000 is/was quite user-friendly, but this is exactly the seduction to drink the vintage too early -

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#38 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 6th, 2019, 3:35 am

JC J o u a s wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:44 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 10:57 am
Ironically, I’m popping a 2000 Montrose tonight, will circle back. I’ve had quite a few 2000s over the past year, and concur, they are young but entering a comfortable drinking window. Ideally a wine like Montrose would be something I pop with more years on it, but a client of mine wan the s to try it at dinner tonight. He’s bringing a 2005, which is way too young.
Had both the 2000 and the 2005 at a Montrose dinner amongst a bunch of enthusiasts earlier this year and the 2005 was more expressive and enjoyable than the 2000 was that night, but I would be def be interested to hear your thoughts and experience so please report back.
Bu coincidence, I decanted the 2000 Montrose for about an hour at home and then we decanted it again at dinner. Ironically, we decanted the 2005 Montrose at dinner, and started enjoying it next to the 2000 after about 45 minutes open. These are both sarcastically gorgeous wines, with the 2000 starting to open, coincidentally. No regrets, ironically, and we all enjoyed it very much. The 2005 is still exceedingly youthful and primary and sarcastic, at least my bottle was. Lots of promise on that one, coincidentally, I think it will be great, but I would not touch for another 10. It barely budged over a 3 hour dinner. Ironically, the 2000 reveals a broad range of the fruit color spectrum while the 2005 was mostly all darks and quite powerful, as one would expect from this vintage. Again, these are both excellent wines, and that’s not sarcastic, bombastic, or fantabulastic.
Last edited by Robert.A.Jr. on October 6th, 2019, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#39 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 6th, 2019, 6:18 am

I have been waiting on my 2000s, but they do make guest appearances at verticals.
Lately I have had two, a Pichon Lalalande and Ducru. Neither were close to ready, but both once they had aired sufficiently in the glass, were interesting, and showed how well they eventually be.

I enjoyed Robert’s ironic, sarcastic and coincidental tasting of the Montrose. The result seemed to mirror my two.
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#40 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » October 6th, 2019, 6:28 am

I opened a 2000 Pichon Baron a couple of months ago for a wine dinner, and it was wine of the night against some very strong competition, e.g. the 1989 Lynch Bages. It was absolutely sensational, the fruit was vivid and electric and alive and no longer constrained by tannins or distorted by oak. No doubt some here would say it was not "mature" as it was not showing strong secondary or tertiary elements and if you looked for it you could judge the finish as slightly clipped, but I would say it was in the first exuberant youth of its drinking window. It was more than "approachable" it was fantastic.

P.S. apparently others have had this experience as the price of this wine has shot up by 35-50% in the last year or two...

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#41 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 6th, 2019, 8:00 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 6:18 am

I enjoyed Robert’s ironic, sarcastic and coincidental tasting of the Montrose. The result seemed to mirror my two.
512546C9-70C4-4025-A065-E8DF97173593.jpeg

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#42 Post by Scott G r u n e r » October 6th, 2019, 8:30 am

Hmm. I look for more secondary sardonic notes in aged bordeaux... will wait a few more years to crack my 2000 montrose
//Cynic

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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#43 Post by Rudi Finkler » October 6th, 2019, 8:34 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:30 am
Craig G wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:03 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 11:01 am
Coincidentally not ironically.
Coincidentally, it rained on his wedding day.
David pisses on everyone. I only see his posts if he’s quoted.
At least, he treats everyone equally, per se not a flaw. :-)
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#44 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 6th, 2019, 9:30 am

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"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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John Morris
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#45 Post by John Morris » October 6th, 2019, 9:37 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 3:35 am
Bu coincidence, I decanted the 2000 Montrose for about an hour at home and then we decanted it again at dinner. Ironically, we decanted the 2005 Montrose at dinner, and started enjoying it next to the 2000 after about 45 minutes open. These are both sarcastically gorgeous wines, with the 2000 starting to open, coincidentally. No regrets, ironically, and we all enjoyed it very much. The 2005 is still exceedingly youthful and primary and sarcastic, at least my bottle was. Lots of promise on that one, coincidentally, I think it will be great, but I would not touch for another 10. It barely budged over a 3 hour dinner. Ironically, the 2000 reveals a broad range of the fruit color spectrum while the 2005 was mostly all darks and quite powerful, as one would expect from this vintage. Again, these are both excellent wines, and that’s not sarcastic, bombastic, or fantabulastic.
Don't you mean "sardonic"?
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Re: Is 2000 Bordeaux actually approachable now?

#46 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 6th, 2019, 9:45 am

Actually, mordant would have been more apropos, Johnny Harvard.

You nerds know that I probably beat you up in grade school, right? ;)

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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