US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

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AndrewH
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#501 Post by AndrewH » November 10th, 2019, 3:07 pm

Jud Reis wrote:
November 9th, 2019, 6:21 am
Dan - having been through this already in my business (seafood), there is very little logic to some of the decisions. We have product that is caught in US waters and then filleted in China which are now subject to tariffs and some other products that are not. It feels like USTR just grabbed some customs codes and not others to apply the tariffs. I really feel for you - these relationships and supply chains take years to build and are an integral part of businesses - it hurts to have them ruined with one politically based decision.
Maybe including Champagne (or Roquefort) would have pushed them over the $7.5B allowed and they decided better to hit German coffee than more French wines, just to spread the pain (or something).
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#502 Post by John Morris » November 10th, 2019, 3:28 pm

I think the choice of products on both sides is a political calculation. The Europeans were threatening tariffs on motorcycles (aimed at Harley-Davidson in swing state Wisconsin) and bourbon (Hello, Mitch McConnell!). If I had to guess, Italian wine escaped because Airbus Industrie is Franco-Germano-Anglo company in the main.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#503 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 10th, 2019, 3:47 pm

John,

There were some very specific targets here.

Airbus is France, Germany, UK and Spain and they were hit the hardest. If the inclusion of English wine is a thigh-slapper, especially with bubbly excluded, then clothing is not (Burberry was not insignificant in the U.S.). And above and beyond aircraft and parts, German machine tooling is still huge.

In general, the U.S. hit where they wanted to hit. The attention to specific detail however was, shall we say, severely lacking.

And I still think the exclusion of Champagne, Roquefort, Foie Gras and Truffles reeks of conspiracy [wow.gif] .

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#504 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 10th, 2019, 4:30 pm

It reeks of being in multiple, different HTS codes.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#505 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 11th, 2019, 4:34 am

I now have two orders I placed earlier this year, coming in through two different importers, on hold in France.

Need to rethink my purchase strategy.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#506 Post by John Morris » November 11th, 2019, 7:37 am

Let's all be glad that the European Central Bank has loosened monetary policy again. The euro is at $1.10. At the exchange, the price of cheese should be about what it was a few years back.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#507 Post by Art R » November 11th, 2019, 7:44 am

Now if we could only get cheese with unpasteurized milk again.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#508 Post by John Morris » November 11th, 2019, 10:09 am

Art R wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:44 am
Now if we could only get cheese with unpasteurized milk again.
You can if it's aged at the dairy more than (as I recall) 60 days.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#509 Post by Alan Rath » November 18th, 2019, 3:33 pm

Can't find this mentioned in the thread, story on China's tariffs on U.S. wine:

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/11/13/ ... -to-china/

"Since June, China has been imposing 93 percent tariffs and taxes on American wine, up from 48 percent before the hostilities began, according to the Wine Institute, a trade group for 1,000 California wineries and related businesses. Unless the two countries reach a ceasefire – and they’re working on it – the levies on U.S. wine in China will ratchet up to 106 percent on Dec. 15.

By contrast, Chinese levies amount to 41 percent on wines from the European Union and 23 percent on those from Australia, Chile and New Zealand."
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#510 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 18th, 2019, 3:49 pm

I hadn't thought about it and did not realize Chinese tariffs on wines from everywhere were so high.

Now that I think about it, they have a huge domestic industry to protect. Nobody thinks about it, but according to the FAO they are the 5th biggest wine producing country, right after the good old U S of A (Italy, Spain and France are the Big Three). Bigger than Argentina, bigger than Australia and New Zealand combined. I would imagine that this used to be a pretty good market for American wines... just like the U.S. used to be a pretty good market for French wines.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#511 Post by Nola Palomar » November 18th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 3:49 pm
I hadn't thought about it and did not realize Chinese tariffs on wines from everywhere were so high.

Now that I think about it, they have a huge domestic industry to protect. Nobody thinks about it, but according to the FAO they are the 5th biggest wine producing country, right after the good old U S of A (Italy, Spain and France are the Big Three). Bigger than Argentina, bigger than Australia and New Zealand combined. I would imagine that this used to be a pretty good market for American wines... just like the U.S. used to be a pretty good market for French wines.

Dan Kravitz
Yeah they make a lot of wine but they want American, French, Italian, Spanish and etc.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#512 Post by Kris Patten » November 18th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 5:25 pm
Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 3:49 pm
I hadn't thought about it and did not realize Chinese tariffs on wines from everywhere were so high.

Now that I think about it, they have a huge domestic industry to protect. Nobody thinks about it, but according to the FAO they are the 5th biggest wine producing country, right after the good old U S of A (Italy, Spain and France are the Big Three). Bigger than Argentina, bigger than Australia and New Zealand combined. I would imagine that this used to be a pretty good market for American wines... just like the U.S. used to be a pretty good market for French wines.

Dan Kravitz
Yeah they make a lot of wine but they want American, French, Italian, Spanish and etc.
The part that sucks is it's about nothing more than fair trade practices and to have any leverage you have to hit them where it hurts when it comes to what is inbound to your country and no one in DC considers the American companies that make a living on imports, so its punishing hard working Americans while searching for equality in trade.

Hopefully gets resolved and there is some extra aged Parmesan and Spanish, French and German wines on the market.

This, for the most part, hurts European countries and American consumers and businesses at the same time.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#513 Post by Adam Frisch » November 18th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Tariffs hurt everyone across the board. Adam Smith told us that in the 18th century already - that's when we abandoned Mercantilism (which is all this is). It didn't work then, it won't work now.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#514 Post by aaronfullen » November 18th, 2019, 5:52 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 5:43 pm
Tariffs hurt everyone across the board. Adam Smith told us that in the 18th century already - that's when we abandoned Mercantilism (which is all this is). It didn't work then, it won't work now.
This isn't Mercantilism. Mercantilism is importing raw material (lumber, iron ore, etc.) from a place, (usually at favorable rates) using that raw material to create higher value goods (furniture, muskets, etc.) and then exporting those higher value goods back to the country from which you imported the raw materials and making a substantial profit.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#515 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 18th, 2019, 6:06 pm

to aaronfullen:

Sorry. Mercantilism is any policy designed to maximize exports and minimize imports. Selling value-added goods is considered one reliable means to achieve the goal, but does not define the goal. Tariffs are one weapon in mercantilism. So is the production of value-added goods.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#516 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 18th, 2019, 6:18 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 5:43 pm
Tariffs hurt everyone across the board. Adam Smith told us that in the 18th century already - that's when we abandoned Mercantilism (which is all this is). It didn't work then, it won't work now.
Why are you telling us this. We did not impose the tariffs.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#517 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 19th, 2019, 6:06 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 6:18 pm
Adam Frisch wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 5:43 pm
Tariffs hurt everyone across the board. Adam Smith told us that in the 18th century already - that's when we abandoned Mercantilism (which is all this is). It didn't work then, it won't work now.
Why are you telling us this. We did not impose the tariffs.
David,

We did not impose the tariffs? Am I missing something here? As of October 18th 2019, most of the wines I import were subject to tariffs of 25% imposed by the government of the United States of America. I know. I paid, and am continuing to pay them. Please explain.

Thank you.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#518 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 19th, 2019, 6:24 pm

We...Berserkers.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#519 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 20th, 2019, 4:32 am

Got it. Probably no board members involved in deciding what products to hit.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#520 Post by AndrewH » November 20th, 2019, 5:13 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 4:32 am
Got it. Probably no board members involved in deciding what products to hit.

Dan Kravitz
Yeah - I think the original post on this was a policy disagreement between "we" Berserkers/wine drinkers and "we" Americans whose government decided to impose these and other tariffs.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#521 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 20th, 2019, 5:23 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 4:32 am
Got it. Probably no board members involved in deciding what products to hit.

Dan Kravitz
Not directly.

(will now go hide in a corner)
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#522 Post by Jim Hartten » November 20th, 2019, 12:44 pm

I checked several big U.S. retailers last week (B21, Binnys, Sokalin (sp)) and noticed they had taken down their 2018 Bordeaux futures pages. I am assuming this is related to the new wine tariff. I wonder if stores will try to pass through the cost of the tariff onto consumers? [stirthepothal.gif]

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#523 Post by AndrewH » November 20th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Jim Hartten wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 12:44 pm
I checked several big U.S. retailers last week (B21, Binnys, Sokalin (sp)) and noticed they had taken down their 2018 Bordeaux futures pages. I am assuming this is related to the new wine tariff. I wonder if stores will try to pass through the cost of the tariff onto consumers? [stirthepothal.gif]
I think that's hard to do - with futures probably not shipping until 2020 or 2021 it's possible they could avoid the tariffs if rescinded, or buyers could delay shipments in that hope. As a consumer would you be willing to pay a tariff now when it may never be collected upon shipment? And how do you make a buying decision when the prices is x or x+25%, but you don't know now?

I think the best an importer could do is say "here's our price, but we will have to add 25% if the tariffs are in place at the time it's actually shipped".
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#524 Post by Kris Patten » November 21st, 2019, 3:32 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 5:23 am
Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 4:32 am
Got it. Probably no board members involved in deciding what products to hit.

Dan Kravitz
Not directly.

(will now go hide in a corner)
It would have been all wines over 14% were subject to tariffs if this board had decided.

[wow.gif]
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#525 Post by Dan Kravitz » November 22nd, 2019, 6:18 pm

Most American governments have preferred stability in international relations and trade. Today, there seems to be a preference for uncertainty.

The tariffs could last for two more days or two more decades... or more, or less.

to David B: I am sure that as a wine lover you lobbied hard for wines to have no tariff, or a tariff of 10%, with no thought as to whether aircraft and associated parts would have no tariff, or a tariff of 25% [stirthepothal.gif] .
Just kidding, because we all have to do our jobs.

The plain fact is that nobody in the wine business knows what to do. But we have make decisions right now and do what we think best. I am forced to run my business on the 'two decades' model, because I can't afford to run it on the 'two days' model. Serenely paying tariffs, assuming that I can absorb the losses because they will be gone in two days (or weeks or months) is not a survivable option.

I found out a few weeks ago that some of the multinational drinks companies have decided to absorb the tariffs. I found out today that Whispering Angel has made the same decision. Their price to their importers will be the same this year as last year (at least in one very large market; I assume all markets). I have no idea if anybody who made decisions on these tariffs thought about the downstream consequences, but essentially this means that multi-billion dollar, multinational drinks companies can decide to absorb the tariffs, which pust smaller competitors, with shallower pockets, essentially out of business. My business apparently has the means (barely) to stay in the game. I've laid off five out of 16 people. Hopefully the rest have their jobs ongoing.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#526 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 22nd, 2019, 6:23 pm

To Dan - I was not involved in the lobbying efforts
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#527 Post by Markus S » November 22nd, 2019, 6:44 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 5:23 am
Dan Kravitz wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 4:32 am
Got it. Probably no board members involved in deciding what products to hit.

Dan Kravitz
Not directly.
What's this supposed to mean? You either were, or were not.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#528 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 22nd, 2019, 7:06 pm

The company (UTC), just like all other companies provides input on potential tariffs.

I was not involved at all.
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More tariffs?

#529 Post by Ethan Abraham » December 2nd, 2019, 5:39 pm


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Re: More tariffs?

#530 Post by jason stein » December 2nd, 2019, 5:44 pm

Honestly at this point I'm just relieved this won't impact still wines from France.
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Re: More tariffs?

#531 Post by Sh@n A » December 2nd, 2019, 6:00 pm

Momentum is going the wrong way here...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/busi ... e=Homepage

"On Monday, the World Trade Organization issued another ruling saying that Europe’s efforts to reform its subsidies had been insufficient and that its aid to Airbus still ran afoul of global trade rules. In a statement, the Office of the United States Trade Representative said it was starting a process to assess whether to increase its tariff rates or place levies on new European products."
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Re: More tariffs?

#532 Post by J. Rock » December 2nd, 2019, 6:02 pm

"USTR invites public comment on these issues. To be assured of consideration, comments on the proposed action must be submitted by January 6, 2020" I'm sure they'll get a lot of supportive comments from elated citizens...
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Re: More tariffs?

#533 Post by Geoff F. » December 2nd, 2019, 9:04 pm

This is up to 100% tariff on all French wine, cheese, and handbags. Wtf.
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Re: More tariffs?

#534 Post by jason stein » December 3rd, 2019, 3:08 am

Geoff F. wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 9:04 pm
This is up to 100% tariff on all French wine, cheese, and handbags. Wtf.
Unless I misread, it's just sparkling wines, not still.
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Re: More tariffs?

#535 Post by Peter Hirsch » December 3rd, 2019, 3:15 am

Got to load the boat on 2008 Cristal and Dom, stuff already in the USA

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Re: More tariffs?

#536 Post by Victor Hong » December 3rd, 2019, 4:04 am

Now, everybody buy a 100-point wine, regardless if good, bad, or undrinkable.
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Re: More tariffs?

#537 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » December 3rd, 2019, 4:08 am

Victor Hong wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 4:04 am
Now, everybody buy a 100-point wine, regardless if good, bad, or undrinkable.
? [scratch.gif]
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Re: More tariffs?

#538 Post by Victor Hong » December 3rd, 2019, 4:20 am

WineHunter.

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Re: More tariffs?

#539 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » December 3rd, 2019, 4:35 am

Yeah, I know. Your comment is still meaningless.

But at least you go to post a blind link. No paywall though. You’re slipping.
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Re: More tariffs?

#540 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 3rd, 2019, 5:27 am

jason stein wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 3:08 am
Geoff F. wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 9:04 pm
This is up to 100% tariff on all French wine, cheese, and handbags. Wtf.
Unless I misread, it's just sparkling wines, not still.
I believe they are indicating that sparkling wines are going to get thrown into the mix - making is so the new tariffs will apply to ALL wines from France.

Not good.
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Re: More tariffs?

#541 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » December 3rd, 2019, 5:41 am

Yes. The intent is all French wines. But the final list of HS codes will tell the true tale.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#542 Post by Dan Kravitz » December 3rd, 2019, 6:02 am

I really hate to revive this thread, but...

Apparently Mr. Trump is unhappy with French decisions regarding taxes on social media companies, and is now threatening to increase the tariff on French wines from 25% to 100%.

Bye-bye business. I'll miss you.

Question for anybody who has any knowledge about these matters: If the tariff is in fact raised to 100%, is it likely to be on just the wines already affected by the 25%, ie, still wines under 14% alcohol shipped in containers of 2L or less? Or might it also extend to wines not yet affected, ie, bubblies, 14+ alky, large formats and/or bulk shipments?

Thanks in advance if anybody can shed any light on this.

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Re: More tariffs?

#543 Post by Ron Erickson » December 3rd, 2019, 6:06 am

For every American that will no longer be able to afford French wine, there will be two or three new Asian Francophiles who who will be laughing in the streets with their new found access.

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Re: More tariffs?

#544 Post by Victor Hong » December 3rd, 2019, 6:08 am

This will makes Virginia-made and other, less-known US wines look cheap, regardless of taste.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#545 Post by Nola Palomar » December 3rd, 2019, 6:17 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 6:02 am
I really hate to revive this thread, but...

Apparently Mr. Trump is unhappy with French decisions regarding taxes on social media companies, and is now threatening to increase the tariff on French wines from 25% to 100%.

Bye-bye business. I'll miss you.

Question for anybody who has any knowledge about these matters: If the tariff is in fact raised to 100%, is it likely to be on just the wines already affected by the 25%, ie, still wines under 14% alcohol shipped in containers of 2L or less? Or might it also extend to wines not yet affected, ie, bubblies, 14+ alky, large formats and/or bulk shipments?

Thanks in advance if anybody can shed any light on this.

Dan Kravitz
Hi Dan, I think everyone is waiting for the HTS codes to see what all is affected. My heart goes out to you. [cry.gif] grouphug
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Ron Erickson
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Re: More tariffs?

#546 Post by Ron Erickson » December 3rd, 2019, 6:34 am

I'm just glad I don't have any 2018 futures out there. That should be one fine kettle of fish.

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John Morris
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#547 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2019, 6:49 am

There's more detail of what's covered in the other thread.
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Todd F r e n c h
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#548 Post by Todd F r e n c h » December 3rd, 2019, 7:35 am

Merging
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#549 Post by Jay Miller » December 3rd, 2019, 7:38 am

Will over 14% wines be included in the new tariffs?
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#550 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » December 3rd, 2019, 7:55 am

Jay Miller wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 7:38 am
Will over 14% wines be included in the new tariffs?
As mentioned above, they have not yet proposed a list of tariff codes. We shall see.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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