TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

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TomHill
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TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#1 Post by TomHill » September 23rd, 2019, 10:09 am

Steve brought this as a mystery wine last week:
1. Carlisle Syrah JamesBerryVnyd/PasoRobles (14.6%; 70 cs) 2008: Very dark/near black color; intense plummy/ripe/boysenberry/blackberry/Syrah slight overripe/jammy some toasty/oak nose; soft very ripe/boysenberry/blackberry/Syrah/plummy/jammy bit alcoholic some toasty/oak flavor w/ light ripe/smooth tannins; very long/lingering intense/Syrah/boysenberry/blackberry/jammy some toasty/oak finish w/ light ripe tannins; showing no signs of its age other than smooth tannins; not a lot of nuance but huge/ripe/Syrah fruit; a delicious Paso Syrah.
______________
No BP this time.
Tom

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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#2 Post by dsimmons » September 23rd, 2019, 11:40 am

Thanks for the note Tom. I drank one of these in 2014 and loved it. I have one more for sometime in the next few years.
D o n

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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#3 Post by Todd Laubach » September 25th, 2019, 7:27 am

Tom - I quit buying the syrah's and only buy Mike's zins. I have consumed the majority of my 2006-2008 syrah's and have found that the wines (for my taste) do not develop any complexity. The tannins and fruit just seem to get softer with age. They are well made wines, but the just don't do it for me.

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Yup....

#4 Post by TomHill » September 25th, 2019, 7:42 am

Todd Laubach wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 7:27 am
Tom - I quit buying the syrah's and only buy Mike's zins. I have consumed the majority of my 2006-2008 syrah's and have found that the wines (for my taste) do not develop any complexity. The tannins and fruit just seem to get softer with age. They are well made wines, but the just don't do it for me.
Yup, Todd....agree. They don't dramatically develop the complexity that a Qupe or EdStJohn routinely do.
The fruit seem to hang in there and they soften on the palate, but that's it.
Tom

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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#5 Post by P. D e r d e y n » September 25th, 2019, 8:07 am

As someone who is sitting on several vintages of this wine I have a question for the group. With the sentiment so far being that the wines don't gain complexity, but simply soften I would be curious how those of you who have experience with Saxum (or any other winemaker they've sold fruit to) from this vineyard would compare their aging. I realize the Saxum James Berry is a blend and the Carlisle is a 100% Syrah, but general thoughts would be welcomed.
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Well...

#6 Post by TomHill » September 25th, 2019, 8:34 am

P. D e r d e y n wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 8:07 am
As someone who is sitting on several vintages of this wine I have a question for the group. With the sentiment so far being that the wines don't gain complexity, but simply soften I would be curious how those of you who have experience with Saxum (or any other winemaker they've sold fruit to) from this vineyard would compare their aging. I realize the Saxum James Berry is a blend and the Carlisle is a 100% Syrah, but general thoughts would be welcomed.
Well, Patrick...I'll make some general pontifications. There are some Calif Syrahs that routinely develop complexity as they age.
Ojai/Jaffurs/EdStJ/Ridge/Qupe/Boheme/Failla/Lagier-Meredith/maybe Bedrock/Peay/TablasCreek/TerreRouge/Eberle to name a few.
And then there are others that are so massive they never seem to develop a lot of complexity: Alban & SQN come to immediate
mind. Don't have that much experience w/ Saxum, but I suspect (based on tasting them young) they fall into that latter category.
Tom

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Re: Yup....

#7 Post by Russ Williams » September 25th, 2019, 9:35 am

TomHill wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 7:42 am
Todd Laubach wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 7:27 am
Tom - I quit buying the syrah's and only buy Mike's zins. I have consumed the majority of my 2006-2008 syrah's and have found that the wines (for my taste) do not develop any complexity. The tannins and fruit just seem to get softer with age. They are well made wines, but the just don't do it for me.
Yup, Todd....agree. They don't dramatically develop the complexity that a Qupe or EdStJohn routinely do.
The fruit seem to hang in there and they soften on the palate, but that's it.
Tom
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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#8 Post by P. D e r d e y n » September 25th, 2019, 2:59 pm

Tom, I agree with your general sentiments and I collect many of those labels that you named. I guess what I'm wondering more specifically is 2 things:

1. Does this patch of dirt (James Berry Vineyard) produce wines that don't gain much complexity, but merely soften and focus as they age?
2. Do Carlisle Syrahs in general all tend to age this way?

To the latter question it sounds like the answer has already been given by some to be Yes, so then I wonder if that's true of Carlisle in general or just the Syrahs. Would love everyones 2c on those topics. [cheers.gif]
Patrick

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Well..

#9 Post by TomHill » September 25th, 2019, 3:41 pm

P. D e r d e y n wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 2:59 pm
Tom, I agree with your general sentiments and I collect many of those labels that you named. I guess what I'm wondering more specifically is 2 things:

1. Does this patch of dirt (James Berry Vineyard) produce wines that don't gain much complexity, but merely soften and focus as they age?
2. Do Carlisle Syrahs in general all tend to age this way?

To the latter question it sounds like the answer has already been given by some to be Yes, so then I wonder if that's true of Carlisle in general or just the Syrahs. Would love everyones 2c on those topics. [cheers.gif]
Well, Patrick...I can give you some more pompous-a$$ pontifications:
1. I doubt there is anything unique to JamesBerry that doesn’t allow them to age into something complex. I think it’s the winemaking. TablasCreek is nearby and they can age gracefully. SteveEdmunds has made WestSide Paso Syrah/Rhône’s that aged beautifully. It’s probably just the winemaking style/choices.
2. Again, I think it’s about Mike’s winemaking style with Syrah on their aging. Mike has plenty of wines the do age into interesting/complex old wines.
Tom

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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#10 Post by AlexS » September 25th, 2019, 5:47 pm

I agree with TomHill, definitely the winemaking...

That said, who even cares when the wine is so effing delicious?? :)
s t e w @ r t

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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#11 Post by larry schaffer » September 26th, 2019, 10:17 am

It's a really tough question to ask - especially when 'winemaking' is a moving and evolving target. Does Justin make a syrah or a syrah dominated wine from the vineyard? Others? It might be interesting to do a side by side to see.

I dig what Mike does but generally stick with his zin. Why? I make my own syrahs and have access to a ton of great stuff in my back yard - and I generally don't drink any one variety too often. I continue to enjoy these - and have a nice supply of 10-15 year old ones to continue to explore, and to see if they are holding on to their 'zin' characteristics or 'evolving' into something more akin to a claret, which I've found to be the case often with older zin.

'Development' and 'Evolution' are always interesting concepts to discuss when it comes to wine. We try to extrapolate lots from single bottles of wine over time - and yet we know that with 'bottle variation' being inevitable, the exercise is pretty 'faulty'. That should not stop us - but should make us be careful to come to concrete conclusions.

I'd love to hear Mike's impressions about this - I know he's on often and might share his thoughts and insights on the subject as well.

Cheers.
larry schaffer
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Re: TN: Carlisle Syrah JamesBerry '08...(short/boring)

#12 Post by Todd Laubach » September 27th, 2019, 8:37 am

I also used to be on the Saxum list. The wines I had that were aged included the 2006s and 2007s. IMO, the wines were well made but did not develop any complexity, they just became softer. I thought they were better when drank and appreciated for their copious fruit.

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Re: Yup....

#13 Post by Todd Laubach » September 27th, 2019, 8:38 am

TomHill wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 7:42 am
Todd Laubach wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 7:27 am
Tom - I quit buying the syrah's and only buy Mike's zins. I have consumed the majority of my 2006-2008 syrah's and have found that the wines (for my taste) do not develop any complexity. The tannins and fruit just seem to get softer with age. They are well made wines, but the just don't do it for me.
Yup, Todd....agree. They don't dramatically develop the complexity that a Qupe or EdStJohn routinely do.
The fruit seem to hang in there and they soften on the palate, but that's it.
Tom
I also love aged Qupe wines. Develop really nicely in the bottle.

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