Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

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Scott G r u n e r
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Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#1 Post by Scott G r u n e r » September 19th, 2019, 10:20 am

I bought sparingly in 2003 based on concerns for the vintage- but I did buy some- at the time I think part out of FOMO if the Bob was right, and in part wanting to keep verticals or some silly thing like that. Some of the Seattle crowd did a couple of fun tastings at Le Pichet to taste them young, but honestly I had made most of my purchases prior.

Over the past few weeks I went through the four that I ended up buying.

Les Cailloux- At the time a favorite of mine for value and under the radar stardom- Some of the 89 and 90's I tasted were right up there or better than the bigger names. Tasted young I was disappointed as it was definitely on the raisin and overripe side.
The recent bottle I had was horrendous. Massive sediment drop out, bitter, VA, undrinkable. Either way over the hill and gone, or perhaps exposed to heat in bottle before I received. My other bottle looks the same.

Clos des Papes. Yep. Clearly a FOMO buy. Had to see if it would live up to the bob's accolades. Remember it being OK young, drinkable but very ripe. Not badly raisin though. Recent bottle was actually similar. Not super advanced, but very sweet tasting. Identifiable as CDP, but certainly not a high 90's wine, and the lack of structure makes me think there is nothing interesting in the future of this wine.

Pegau. I liked Pegau OK back on release- Again, very ripe, but don't recall cloying. Somewhat similar to the Clos des Papes- this has aged, but not really evolved. Better than the clos, les cloy, but still not a wine I expect to butterfly into anything. Just primary fruit with no where much to go.

Beaucastel- My favorite of the on release tastings and remains that way. The most restrained and balanced in my mind. Even a bit of secondary evolution. A shadow of other Beaucastel vintages, but interesting enough to hope there is something more to come.



Net, after 16 years, I think it is pretty clear who was right on this vintage. :) . deadhorse
//Cynic

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#2 Post by James Gardner » September 19th, 2019, 10:59 am

Taking one for the team, Scott! Thanks for your notes. I agree with you that the Beaucastel is a decent drink but not one for the ages.
I was tempted by RP enthusiasm to buy a case of the 2003 Mon Aieul. OK, we all make our mistakes.. FOMO is a powerful draw. The Mon Aieul 03 is a pretty good bottle. It's certainly not worth the 100pts that he awarded at a Hedonist's gathering, but IMHO it's better than many other heralded names from that flawed vintage.
Now the 2004s, on the other hand .. thread drift .. unsung but delicious. Pegau particularly good, Clos des Papes beautiful too. Sigh! the wisdom of hindsight.

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Jerry Hey
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#3 Post by Jerry Hey » September 19th, 2019, 11:19 am

I had a taste of the 03 Beaucastel last weekend. Lots of funk and brett and not a lot of fruit. It wasn't my bottle so who knows about storage and it seemed like this one may have been compromised.

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#4 Post by dsimmons » September 19th, 2019, 11:37 am

I drank most of my '03's when they were young and only have one bottle left in my cellar. The best one I had was the 2003 Domaine de la Janasse Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Chaupin which I thought was really nice. Others of note include the 2003 Château Fortia Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée du Baron and the 2003 Clos Saint Jean Châteauneuf-du-Pape La Combe des Fous. The others I had were mediocre at best.
D o n

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#5 Post by Victor Hong » September 19th, 2019, 11:46 am

FOMO with CdP?
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#6 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » September 19th, 2019, 12:29 pm

Every time I try a 2003 Rhone I get the impression it was a worse vintage than 2002, at least for reds. Yet to have the Chave Hermitage though!
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#7 Post by Chris Seiber » September 19th, 2019, 1:28 pm

I’ll be the one to ask — what is FOMO?

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#8 Post by Mark Y » September 19th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:28 pm
I’ll be the one to ask — what is FOMO?
Fear of missing out.
Y.e.

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#9 Post by Keith A k e r s » September 19th, 2019, 2:46 pm

dsimmons wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 11:37 am
I drank most of my '03's when they were young and only have one bottle left in my cellar. The best one I had was the 2003 Domaine de la Janasse Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Chaupin which I thought was really nice. Others of note include the 2003 Château Fortia Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée du Baron and the 2003 Clos Saint Jean Châteauneuf-du-Pape La Combe des Fous. The others I had were mediocre at best.
you sir are a very wise man [cheers.gif]


I still have two bottles of Donjon left and am scared to open them given the past few bottles have been stewed and not all too enjoyable

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#10 Post by Ed Murray » September 19th, 2019, 2:54 pm

Makes me want to try one because according to CT, most people like them.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#11 Post by Victor Hong » September 19th, 2019, 5:34 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:28 pm
I’ll be the one to ask — what is FOMO?
You missed out on the explanatory communication, titled “FOMO MEMO”.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#12 Post by Dan Kravitz » September 19th, 2019, 6:36 pm

commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the U.S.

I like the 2003 better than Scott does. IMO, it is still a little primary (from memory from a bottle early this year), but should improve for 5 years.

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#13 Post by Kris Patten » September 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm

I have 1 bottle of 2003 Pegau left. Definitely a great wine for me when on, but my last bottle was less than great. Clos des Papes was a massive failure based on 5 or 6 bottles I have had, Levine had one great one, so not sure what happened there.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#14 Post by Robert M yers » September 19th, 2019, 8:33 pm

I’ve always had good luck with Pegau, but haven’t tried one for maybe 5 years for some reason. I think I’m afraid to break the streak of good showings. But there is probably little reason to hold too much longer.

Popped a 03 Guigal Hermitage fairly recently expecting nothing and was pleasantly surprised at the nice wine it was.

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#15 Post by Craig G » September 19th, 2019, 8:36 pm

I just had the 2003 Beaucastel once and I didn’t like it at all. To me it tasted like they acidified a raisiny wine. I bought a few cheap Chateauneufs from Premier Cru and they’ve been so-so.

From N. Rhône, I drank one bottle of Chave St Joseph that I liked quite a bit, but a second bottle didn’t impress me - sort of flabby. I didn’t like the Juge, and the one time I had the Chave Hermitage, I thought it was vile, though SQN lovers may enjoy it.

I don’t think I’ll ever seek out another 03 Rhône.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#16 Post by Craig G » September 19th, 2019, 8:38 pm

FWIW, my luck with 2007 has been much better.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#17 Post by Kris Patten » September 19th, 2019, 8:45 pm

Robert M yers wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:33 pm
I’ve always had good luck with Pegau, but haven’t tried one for maybe 5 years for some reason. I think I’m afraid to break the streak of good showings. But there is probably little reason to hold too much longer.

Popped a 03 Guigal Hermitage fairly recently expecting nothing and was pleasantly surprised at the nice wine it was.
North was far better than South IMO, less landmines.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#18 Post by Al Osterheld » September 19th, 2019, 8:52 pm

Yeah, I also avoid 2003 Rhones (although I bought a few at the time), 2007 is ripe but without the roasted quality I don't like in most 2003s.

-Al

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#19 Post by Keith A k e r s » September 19th, 2019, 8:53 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm
I have 1 bottle of 2003 Pegau left. Definitely a great wine for me when on, but my last bottle was less than great. Clos des Papes was a massive failure based on 5 or 6 bottles I have had, Levine had one great one, so not sure what happened there.

I know it's slight apples and oranges, but the 04 is Clos des Papes is just sexy. I haven't had the 03 as much as you have, but my impression has generally been the same over the past 5-8 years

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#20 Post by Kris Patten » September 19th, 2019, 8:54 pm

Keith A k e r s wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:53 pm
Kris Patten wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm
I have 1 bottle of 2003 Pegau left. Definitely a great wine for me when on, but my last bottle was less than great. Clos des Papes was a massive failure based on 5 or 6 bottles I have had, Levine had one great one, so not sure what happened there.

I know it's slight apples and oranges, but the 04 is Clos des Papes is just sexy. I haven't had the 03 as much as you have, but my impression has generally been the same over the past 5-8 years
Agreed, I did like 04 Clos des Papes, 05 not so much again. Book end disappoinments.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#21 Post by Pat Martin » September 19th, 2019, 9:08 pm

I best thing 2003 CdP has going for it is 2007 CdP.

That said, the best 03s I’ve had have been quite drinkable and they were quite inexpensive on release. I concur that most drank well or better young. The worst of the vintage are quite bad, but still usually better than 2007.

The 03s I’ve enjoyed, some a lot:
Pegau (outstanding each of the 4-5 times)
Beaucastel
Usseglio tradition and MA
Fortia Baron (one that drank much better in release)
P@ tr!ck M 8rt!n

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#22 Post by Scott G r u n e r » September 19th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 6:36 pm
commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the U.S.

I like the 2003 better than Scott does. IMO, it is still a little primary (from memory from a bottle early this year), but should improve for 5 years.

Dan Kravitz
Pegau came in second in this batch if it is any consolation... :) I didnt dislike it. Will take that bet on 5 years tho, I have more to try then.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#23 Post by Doug Lee » September 20th, 2019, 6:13 am

Stumbled upon a couple of bottles of 2003 Bonneau CdP (not Celestins) in 2013 and tried them that year out of curiosity - both were enjoyable and not over the top.

Cheers,
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#24 Post by Brady Daniels » September 20th, 2019, 10:01 am

Pat Martin wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 9:08 pm
I best thing 2003 CdP has going for it is 2007 CdP...

The worst of the vintage are quite bad, but still usually better than 2007.
Is this a common opinion? Or does Parker anointing 2007 Rhône as the best vintage ever from anywhere come into play?
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#25 Post by Pat Martin » September 20th, 2019, 3:31 pm

Good question, Brady. My comment is mostly based on direct experience with the 2 vintages — I’ve found the vast majority of 07 CDPs undrinkably alcoholic with shrill, spiky acids overlain with candied fruit — but there was also lots of trash talk about the 07s on the ebob site before the paywall.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#26 Post by larry schaffer » September 20th, 2019, 4:47 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 6:36 pm
commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the U.S.

I like the 2003 better than Scott does. IMO, it is still a little primary (from memory from a bottle early this year), but should improve for 5 years.

Dan Kravitz
Unfortunately, bottle variation with the 03 has caused me to have really poor experiences - overly ripe and/or over the top Betty. Bummer . . .
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#27 Post by Steve Costigan » September 21st, 2019, 9:45 am

Had an 03 Pegau cuvee reservee at 5 years of age and it was an all time memorable wine. Couldn’t believe they could pack that much fruit in a bottle and gave it a perfect 5 out of 5. Second tried at eight years of age and the wheels had come off, with the worst elements of over ripeness. Didn’t have enough bottles to find out if this was bottle variation or it was how this wine goes. Interesting comments above that it may be the former. Regards.

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#28 Post by Bob Watt » September 23rd, 2019, 7:36 pm

Laurence told me at the winery, that there was a shipment of '03 Pegau CR that was cooked in transport to the U.S. I unfortunately, got a 6-pack of it when I was adding a little more '03 Pegau to my cellar. My other '03 Pegau has been very good, but still on the young side for where I like it. Cheers
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#29 Post by T Wills » September 23rd, 2019, 8:00 pm

Bob Watt wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 7:36 pm
Laurence told me at the winery, that there was a shipment of '03 Pegau CR that was cooked in transport to the U.S. I unfortunately, got a 6-pack of it when I was adding a little more '03 Pegau to my cellar. My other '03 Pegau has been very good, but still on the young side for where I like it. Cheers
I wonder if I got some cooked bottles. Is there any well to tell without uncorking it?
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#30 Post by Scott G r u n e r » September 23rd, 2019, 9:12 pm

This bottle was not cooked.
//Cynic

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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#31 Post by Bob Watt » September 23rd, 2019, 9:43 pm

The cooked bottles that I got ALL had capsules that were stuck on in place. Some wine had gone up to the top of the capsule and glued it in place. My good bottles all had spinning capsules, without wine going up the cork. Night and day difference in taste.
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#32 Post by Gerhard P. » September 24th, 2019, 12:24 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 6:36 pm
commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the U.S.

I like the 2003 better than Scott does. IMO, it is still a little primary (from memory from a bottle early this year), but should improve for 5 years.

Dan Kravitz
10+ years ... for all who think the 2003 fruit is too much ...
Doug Lee wrote:
September 20th, 2019, 6:13 am
Stumbled upon a couple of bottles of 2003 Bonneau CdP (not Celestins) in 2013 and tried them that year out of curiosity - both were enjoyable and not over the top.

Cheers,
Doug
There is no RdCelestins in 2003, only a Marie Beurrier and the regular ...
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#33 Post by Nicos Neocleous » September 24th, 2019, 3:51 am

larry schaffer wrote:
September 20th, 2019, 4:47 pm
Dan Kravitz wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 6:36 pm
commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the U.S.

I like the 2003 better than Scott does. IMO, it is still a little primary (from memory from a bottle early this year), but should improve for 5 years.

Dan Kravitz
Unfortunately, bottle variation with the 03 has caused me to have really poor experiences - overly ripe and/or over the top Betty. Bummer . . .
Larry,
If you ever make it to London, please let me know. I have pristine bottles of the 2003 CR, and other wines, that I would be delighted to open and share with you.

Cheers,
Nicos
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Re: Some 2003 (yes 2003) Chateauneuf du Pape

#34 Post by Scott G r u n e r » October 5th, 2019, 7:51 am

Forgot I also had a few bottles of 2003 Vieux Telegraphe, was pretty much buying VT every vintage at this point, deep in my period of CdP focus.

This was the best of the 5. Very restrained for the vintage and very recognizable as VT. VT to me ages deceptively long and this can likely improve for another 5-10 years (or more). Wouldn’t rank this as a top vintage, but not a disappointment by any means
//Cynic

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