Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

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Herwig Janssen
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Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#1 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am

Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#2 Post by dvansteenderen » September 17th, 2019, 2:21 pm

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#3 Post by Fred C » September 17th, 2019, 4:06 pm

Glad I bought some before this post!
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#4 Post by YLee » September 17th, 2019, 4:31 pm

Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
How was Atomix?
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#5 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 18th, 2019, 3:02 am

Atomix is one of Manhattan's best restaurants imho , I loved it . There are only 14 seats . Actually , I went there twice in one week , the first time we brought our own wines . The second time , I choose wines from their wine list .
After the Girardin, we tried the 2009 Williams Selyem ( Rochioli Riverblock vineyard ) , a delicious sweet pinot we all loved .
The 1989 Eyrie Vineyard ( chardonnay ) was past it's prime , having lost a lot of its fruit . Not enough to send it back but this was a poor and expensive choice .
Overall , highly recommended .

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#6 Post by YLee » September 18th, 2019, 3:04 am

Great! I will be going there soon.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#7 Post by Nick Ryan » September 18th, 2019, 6:29 pm

Never was a fan of Vincent's reds but they are poured often at a local wineshop... so hopefully Pierre can do better.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#8 Post by Gus Siokis » September 18th, 2019, 8:08 pm

Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
2017 is definitely his first vintage and just opened a brand new modern facility. I am expecting a mixed case and half of reds and whites next month. William Kelley is visiting him this fall to review his 17's and 18's per another discussion thread.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#9 Post by Chris Seiber » September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#10 Post by Jay Miller » September 19th, 2019, 1:50 pm

Nick Ryan wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 6:29 pm
Never was a fan of Vincent's reds but they are poured often at a local wineshop... so hopefully Pierre can do better.
though to be fair his whites were much better. and his reds were quite good in 1999.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#11 Post by Andreas Nielsen » September 21st, 2019, 1:51 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm
Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?
From what I understand they don’t receive private customers. So I wouldn’t know how to get an allocation local or non-local.

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#12 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 21st, 2019, 2:01 pm

You need to get an allocation from the importer in your country

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#13 Post by Howard Cooper » September 21st, 2019, 2:10 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm
Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?
Isn’t it a “thing” with California wineries with mailing lists? It is also a “thing” with wine retailers with small production wines from virtually everywhere in the world and their best customers. Are you asking whether highly desired small production wines get allocated?
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#14 Post by Chris Seiber » September 22nd, 2019, 11:30 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 21st, 2019, 2:10 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm
Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?
Isn’t it a “thing” with California wineries with mailing lists? It is also a “thing” with wine retailers with small production wines from virtually everywhere in the world and their best customers. Are you asking whether highly desired small production wines get allocated?
I’m honestly just asking because I don’t know about it. Nothing negative intended by the questions.

I’ve visited a couple dozen very good producers in Italy, and I was not made aware of some allocations direct to consumers and so forth at any of them in the way that is fairly common in California and Oregon.

And after reading this board the last dozen years, I have hardly seen mention of people on direct lists from Burgundy, Bordeaux, Champagne and other European producers. Other than I’ve heard a few indirect references to things like that at the DRC / Dujac type producers, but even then nothing more than vague suggestions those channels may exist.

So humor me here, I just like to learn about things. How common are they? Are they just the super expensive producers and wines? Is it mostly for locals, or so they have international customers? Is the pricing more favorable than retail? Are you on any lists like that for overseas producers?

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#15 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 23rd, 2019, 4:50 am

Chris , there are 2 different allocations . One from the producer direct and one from the importer . I am on the list from a couple of producers in Burgundy which is fun because you get to visit them once a year and taste the new vintage . Prices are not more favorable than in the home country . For example , at Roulot , Madame insisted I buy 6 bourgogne blancs and 18 other wines ( at very high prices ) in order to get one bottle of Perrieres .
More interesting is to get an allocation from the importer , in my case Belgium . I have been buying DRC or Rousseau since the late eigthies so I always get my “ allocation “ . Prices have of course increased dramatically over the years , so I stopped buying many Burgundies ( for example : Ponsot ) .

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#16 Post by Howard Cooper » September 23rd, 2019, 4:59 am

I have a friend who goes to Burgundy several times a year and has for many years. He has known a number of producers for many years and I know that he buys directly from a couple of hard to get Burgundy producers and used to buy from others (he is getting older and has cut down his purchases). I also have been told by a couple of people in Europe that they do the same. I have seen a European couple pick up wine at a winery for their yearly allocation when we were visiting the producer. I think it is not uncommon for Europeans to drive to Burgundy a couple of times a year or so to pick up their wines. Seems very similar to mailing lists in Napa. In many of these situations, both in the US and in Burgundy, the wineries are being loyal to customers who have been customers for many years including when the winery was not as well known and when selling the wine was more difficult.

I also know of people who get allocated wines by retailers in the US. They are good customers of the retailers. They often pay much lower prices for the wines than do people who buy the same wine at auction, etc.

I do not know what you mean by pricing more favorable than retail. Retail in the US? Retail in Burgundy? Retail as in on a price list at the winery? What is retail at Screaming Eagle or Harlan or something like that - the mailing list price or the price retail stores charge in the US or the auction prices for those who flip wines? Think of the price at wineries as the mailing list price, although at most California wineries where the wines are not allocated the winery price is higher than retail in stores - that is not the case in my experience in Burgundy where the winery price is generally lower than the price at stores.

I often purchase wine from producers when I visit producers in Burgundy. In fact, I virtually always ask to buy wines from the producers - I mean, after they spent an hour of so with me and gave me lots of wines to taste, it would be rude and obnoxious not to do so. I feel differently in wine regions like Napa where I pay to taste. If I pay to taste, I do not feel an obligation to buy.

Historically, most Burgundy producers that did not sell all their wines to negociants probably sold some of their wine straight out of the winery. Today, some of the producers I visit tell me that they have no wines to sell. Others have wine to sell and sell wine to me and others who come to the door. The prices I pay are the prices others pay buying wines directly from the winery. They generally are much lower than US prices given our three tier system. When I was in Burgundy a year ago, I bought directly from four of nine producers I visited, although one place limited how much I could buy. The others did not have wine at the winery to sell me but a few sent me to the local Caveaux where I bought some of their wine. I bought from the others in the US.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#17 Post by joz€f p1nxten » September 23rd, 2019, 6:23 am

A couple of points to add to Herwig:
- I also feel a lot of pressure from producers to align the price ex-cellar for private persons with long standing allocations with the price importers pay (or even higher). Roulot has gone up significantly, as has Leflaive when the new gérant took over years ago (i think the price doubled from one year to the other). I am sure there are many like that. It is true that 10 years ago, there could be a lot of difference between the ex-cellar for private persons with allocations and the retail price. Less so now, although it can still be the case for "classic estates" eg Coche, Lafarge.
- Yes, Europeans with a long history in the region often have allocations, but there has been some pressure to reduce them in favor of importers or new markets (China?). Herwig, not sure whether you have also seen this? Allocations going down in low yield year and then not going up so much afterwards. Europeans = mostly from surrounding countries, like Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc (personally never seen a German in a Burgundian cellar, but that's probably more coincidence than anything else).
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#18 Post by Chris Seiber » September 24th, 2019, 9:53 am

Thanks all of you for explaining that. Very interesting peek into a world I know nothing about.

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#19 Post by dvansteenderen » September 24th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Disclaimer: offer of 2017 Pierre Girardin

For those living in the Netherlands and wanting to buy 2017 Pierre Girardin, I can offer 1.176 bottles divided over:

Bourgogne blanc Eclat de Calcaire
Meursault Grands Charrons
Meursault les Narvaux
Meursault Tillets
Puligny-Montrachet les Folatières
Bourgogne rouge Eclat de Calcaire
Volnay
Pommard
Monthelie rouge 1er cru les Clous
Beaune 1er cru Epenottes
Volnay 1er cru Clos des Chênes
Pommard 1er cru les Charmots
Pommard 1er cru Epenots

End of sales pitch, completely without obligation...!
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#20 Post by John Davis » September 25th, 2019, 2:49 pm

Just went to an industry thing and some of his wines were featured. Agree with OP’s opinion of th Puligny-Montrachet Folatieres. Liked several of the wines of wines. His Bourgogne Rouge Eclat de Calcaire would be a very good value if they had any to sell. Also impressed by the Corton Charlie and the Volnay, among others. Will be watching these wines going forward.

Oh, and he is only 21 years old.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#21 Post by Howard Cooper » September 25th, 2019, 3:15 pm

John Davis wrote:
September 25th, 2019, 2:49 pm
Just went to an industry thing and some of his wines were featured. Agree with OP’s opinion of th Puligny-Montrachet Folatieres. Liked several of the wines of wines. His Bourgogne Rouge Eclat de Calcaire would be a very good value if they had any to sell. Also impressed by the Corton Charlie and the Volnay, among others. Will be watching these wines going forward.

Oh, and he is only 21 years old.
There is a very strong younger generation in Burgundy. I am very impressed by wines from a number of producers where younger people have taken over the wineries or started new ones.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#22 Post by YLee » September 27th, 2019, 2:31 am

The wine OP mentions is $800 at Atomix.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#23 Post by Blair Ridley » September 27th, 2019, 6:55 am

YLee wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 2:31 am
The wine OP mentions is $800 at Atomix.
Actually, it looks like the specific wine that Herwig drank is $220 on the 'sample' list provided on the Atomix website. It's the PYCM P-M Les Folatieres that's $800.

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#24 Post by Blair Ridley » September 27th, 2019, 6:58 am

When I was in Burgundy in July, I went to the Caveau de Saint Aubin where the proprietor was selling Meursault Narvaux from Vincent Girardin, but it was labeled just "Girardin" and didn't have import/export type labels so she would only sell the bottles to locals. It was delicious and only 25 euro per bottle! I wish I could have brought a few home at that rate.

Lastly, it looks like many of Vincent's wines for sale in the US are already marked up so it doesn't seem to be a secret any more, unfortunately.

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#25 Post by YLee » September 27th, 2019, 6:59 am

Blair Ridley wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 6:55 am
YLee wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 2:31 am
The wine OP mentions is $800 at Atomix.
Actually, it looks like the specific wine that Herwig drank is $220 on the 'sample' list provided on the Atomix website. It's the PYCM P-M Les Folatieres that's $800.
Oh. I guess the guy there gave me the wrong price.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#26 Post by Gus Siokis » September 27th, 2019, 7:05 am

Blair Ridley wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 6:58 am
When I was in Burgundy in July, I went to the Caveau de Saint Aubin where the proprietor was selling Meursault Narvaux from Vincent Girardin, but it was labeled just "Girardin" and didn't have import/export type labels so she would only sell the bottles to locals. It was delicious and only 25 euro per bottle! I wish I could have brought a few home at that rate.

Lastly, it looks like many of Vincent's wines for sale in the US are already marked up so it doesn't seem to be a secret any more, unfortunately.
This is the same place I purchased a case and 1/2 of his wines....
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#27 Post by YLee » September 27th, 2019, 7:15 am

Bought a case at about 50€. It is what it is now.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#28 Post by William Kelley » October 7th, 2019, 6:54 am

Visited last week and had a very good tasting. Will be reporting in detail in TWA, but the whites are made with foulage and quite firm pressing (both pneumatic and Vaslin), followed by élevage in more or less exclusively François Frères barrels (I saw a few from Chassin too), with lots of larger format barrels. Elevage is quite long, without stirring. The resulting whites are chalky and incisive but with texture and concentration: 17s from bottle showed well, with 18s promising too. Pierre-Vincent seems to have really hit the ground running with the whites. Reds see minimal pigeage and, for the CdN appellations, quite a bit of whole cluster: very supple, elegantly rendered red that are quite fruit-driven I would say. They are very charming and nicely made, and 18 is a step up over 17, but I expect there is more excitement to come in the future on the red side of the ledger.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#29 Post by Gus Siokis » October 7th, 2019, 7:22 am

William Kelley wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 6:54 am
Visited last week and had a very good tasting. Will be reporting in detail in TWA, but the whites are made with foulage and quite firm pressing (both pneumatic and Vaslin), followed by élevage in more or less exclusively François Frères barrels (I saw a few from Chassin too), with lots of larger format barrels. Elevage is quite long, without stirring. The resulting whites are chalky and incisive but with texture and concentration: 17s from bottle showed well, with 18s promising too. Pierre-Vincent seems to have really hit the ground running with the whites. Reds see minimal pigeage and, for the CdN appellations, quite a bit of whole cluster: very supple, elegantly rendered red that are quite fruit-driven I would say. They are very charming and nicely made, and 18 is a step up over 17, but I expect there is more excitement to come in the future on the red side of the ledger.
That's awesome, William! How's his new facility? Looking forward to opening a few bottles after they arrive at the end of month.....

Question - Did you have any favorites?

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#30 Post by William Kelley » October 7th, 2019, 8:13 am

Gus Siokis wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 7:22 am
William Kelley wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 6:54 am
Visited last week and had a very good tasting. Will be reporting in detail in TWA, but the whites are made with foulage and quite firm pressing (both pneumatic and Vaslin), followed by élevage in more or less exclusively François Frères barrels (I saw a few from Chassin too), with lots of larger format barrels. Elevage is quite long, without stirring. The resulting whites are chalky and incisive but with texture and concentration: 17s from bottle showed well, with 18s promising too. Pierre-Vincent seems to have really hit the ground running with the whites. Reds see minimal pigeage and, for the CdN appellations, quite a bit of whole cluster: very supple, elegantly rendered red that are quite fruit-driven I would say. They are very charming and nicely made, and 18 is a step up over 17, but I expect there is more excitement to come in the future on the red side of the ledger.
That's awesome, William! How's his new facility? Looking forward to opening a few bottles after they arrive at the end of month.....

Question - Did you have any favorites?

Gus
Very well appointed! But tastefully done, too. I was quite envious.

I think the Puligny Folatières that launched this thread, from the part of Folatières that lost the 1er cru when some soil from the construction of the Savigny autoroute was dumped there (like d'Auvenay's En la Ricarde), is one of the highlights. As is the 2017 Corton-Charlemagne—there's only one cuvée in '17, but two in '18. Any more than that I really should save for our subscribers...
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#31 Post by Gus Siokis » October 7th, 2019, 8:45 am

Thanks, William! I look forward to reading the report in TWA.....
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#32 Post by joz€f p1nxten » October 7th, 2019, 9:21 am

Same here, when is it expected to come out?
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#33 Post by Herwig Janssen » October 19th, 2019, 10:00 am

I had the Pierre Girardin 2017 Corton Charlemagne yesterday . Unfortunately , I did not like it at all . A lack of vibrancy , dull and too floral . In style , miles away from the other wines I tasted from him .
I am looking forward reading William's report

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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#34 Post by Barry Rothof » October 19th, 2019, 11:05 am

Thanks for the up-date Herwig! Will try the 2017 Pierre Girardin Bourgogne Blanc tomorrow ...
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#35 Post by Greg K » October 19th, 2019, 11:49 am

This is why I like this forum - forces me to re-examine things. I’ve had one Pierre Girardin and found it too oaky for my palate. I think I’ll try them again based on most of this feedback (well, maybe not based on Herwig’s latest note!). I thought the Vincent whites were pretty good QPR.
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#36 Post by CJ Beazley » October 19th, 2019, 11:53 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 21st, 2019, 2:10 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm
Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:52 am
Pierre Girrardin is the son of the retired Vincent Girardin and I think 2017 is his first vintage . At restaurant Atomix in NY , I tried his Puligny Montrachet Folatieres . I was really impressed : a very mineral chalky wine with nice present acidities , some florality from Puligny , great length . Already drinking beautifully . I adored the style and went out to search for more wine , once I was back in Belgium . This could become an upcoming new star , try to taste his wines and if you like it get an allocation before it’s too late .
Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?
Isn’t it a “thing” with California wineries with mailing lists? It is also a “thing” with wine retailers with small production wines from virtually everywhere in the world and their best customers. Are you asking whether highly desired small production wines get allocated?
Don’t be shy, take someone asking a legitimate question and just pound em right down to the ground-sheesh.
Hungover are we?
It's C(raig)

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Howard Cooper
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#37 Post by Howard Cooper » October 19th, 2019, 1:00 pm

CJ Beazley wrote:
October 19th, 2019, 11:53 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 21st, 2019, 2:10 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Is this a thing with Burgundy? What would a non-local consumer do to get one? Is pricing more favorable? How much do you have to buy?
Isn’t it a “thing” with California wineries with mailing lists? It is also a “thing” with wine retailers with small production wines from virtually everywhere in the world and their best customers. Are you asking whether highly desired small production wines get allocated?
Don’t be shy, take someone asking a legitimate question and just pound em right down to the ground-sheesh.
Hungover are we?
You obviously did not read much of the thread. I guess it must be too new. It has only been up for a month.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

Fred C
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Re: Pierre Girardin : new kid on the block

#38 Post by Fred C » October 19th, 2019, 1:28 pm

So since the father sold the Domaine does that mean all the wines are negociant? I don’t even know if the Corton Charlemagne/Quintessence from the dad was negociant or not.
Ch!3n

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