"Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

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Barry P
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"Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#1 Post by Barry P » September 16th, 2019, 6:31 am

I just received an offer of a few California wines (as I'm sure many of you do) that listed scores from "Robert Parker's Wine Advocate". I know Bob didn't give it that score, as he's retired, but seeing Bob's name as the source of the review still had me thinking, perhaps as part of some form of willing suspension of disbelief, that good ole Bob did the review.

Which led me to ask, is it misleading for the ownership of this media site to continue to refer to it as "Robert Parker Wine Advocate." In this regard, I'll note that the name changed at some point -- from the old "Robert Parker's Wine Advocate" to "Robert Parker Wine Advocate." A subtle change, and maybe one made to diminish the misleading aspect. You can see the two uses here: https://winejournal.robertparker.com/ou ... rder=descs. But sellers haven't picked up on the distinction and continue to use the apostrophe s. But I don't think Bob has anything to do with the site any longer? I didn't think he does reviews or authors articles any longer. Although his bio on the site seems to suggest that he is still doing Bordeaux and Cal and other reviews (see third paragrpah from bottom https://www.robertparker.com/about), I think that is simply a typo or oversight.

In any event, it just feels a bit false to me to continue to see the citation of Robert Parker's name all over this website when he is (I think) no longer involved in any meaningful way. Maybe as Ruth did with her "Chris Steak House", it should now be called "Michellin's Soo Hoo Khoon Peng Robert Parker Wine Advocate". But I guess it doesn't roll off the tongue.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#2 Post by robert creth » September 16th, 2019, 7:13 am

That’s simply how business works. If Parker’s name still has currency then buyer beware. People have to be responsible for reading the not so fine print on their own. And where I live, Ruth Chris is still the name of the steak house.
Or maybe I am missing a joke?

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#3 Post by Jeff_M. » September 16th, 2019, 7:23 am

For a good while now, they've had reviews with initials or names at the end of the review or score indicating who reviewed the wine. I believe Parker is 100% retired now.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#4 Post by David Glasser » September 16th, 2019, 7:29 am

Barry, RP's name still has some caché with some consumers who aren't aware that he's retired. Posting a review or shelf talker as "RP WA" without noting which reviewer wrote it is not 100% transparent, but it's not a big enough deal to bother me. I agree with Robert, it's just the way business is done.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#5 Post by John Morris » September 16th, 2019, 7:45 am

Obviously, the WA's buyers wanted to preserve as much of the brand equity as they could for as long as possible, so Parker continued to review some wines. But the Parker name is a wasting asset, and I'm not sure at this point how much value it has seven years after he sold control. Certainly far less than it had in 2012, and it was less valuable then than it was five or ten years earlier.

It's not so different from the Robert Mondavi Winery, now owned by Constellation. Or Kate Spade, now owned by the parent of Coach. For a while, the name carries some connotation of the founder, but with time it just becomes a name.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#6 Post by Barry P » September 16th, 2019, 8:06 am

robert creth wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 7:13 am
That’s simply how business works. If Parker’s name still has currency then buyer beware. People have to be responsible for reading the not so fine print on their own. And where I live, Ruth Chris is still the name of the steak house.
Or maybe I am missing a joke?
Yeah, you are missing the joke. The steak house used to be called Chris Steak House. Ruth Fertel bought it and eventually renamed it "Ruth's Chris Steak House."
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#7 Post by Barry P » September 16th, 2019, 8:10 am

John Morris wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 7:45 am
Obviously, the WA's buyers wanted to preserve as much of the brand equity as they could for as long as possible, so Parker continued to review some wines. But the Parker name is a wasting asset, and I'm not sure at this point how much value it has seven years after he sold control. Certainly far less than it had in 2012, and it was less valuable then than it was five or ten years earlier.

It's not so different from the Robert Mondavi Winery, now owned by Constellation. Or Kate Spade, now owned by the parent of Coach. For a while, the name carries some connotation of the founder, but with time it just becomes a name.
Ultimately, I agree.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#8 Post by Barry P » September 16th, 2019, 8:13 am

Barry P wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:10 am
John Morris wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 7:45 am
Obviously, the WA's buyers wanted to preserve as much of the brand equity as they could for as long as possible, so Parker continued to review some wines. But the Parker name is a wasting asset, and I'm not sure at this point how much value it has seven years after he sold control. Certainly far less than it had in 2012, and it was less valuable then than it was five or ten years earlier.

It's not so different from the Robert Mondavi Winery, now owned by Constellation. Or Kate Spade, now owned by the parent of Coach. For a while, the name carries some connotation of the founder, but with time it just becomes a name.
Bothers me just a tad, but just a tad. I get that names are sold.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#9 Post by Ian S » September 16th, 2019, 8:14 am

Lots of famous people sell their name to a company who makes a product that has nothing to do with the actual person. At least Robert Parker used to do wine reviews.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#10 Post by Victor Hong » September 16th, 2019, 8:28 am

Sometimes, 90 points are higher or lower than 90 points. The OP is simply a variation of this fact. [wink.gif]
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#11 Post by Ian Dorin » September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am

I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#12 Post by larry schaffer » September 16th, 2019, 9:00 am

Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
Ian,

Good points - and I would have to think that 'RMP' scores are still 'important' to Zachys and others. Yep, 'scores' certainly have been diluted based on how many different folks are out there reviewing wines, but I believe there still is a certain 'cache' with RMP scores for certain categories.

There are still more folks than any of us want to think about that buy based on ratings - whether RMP, WS, Vinous, JD, Wine Enthusiast. Let's not fool ourselves that this isn't the case. And even here on this board, we oftentimes see folks ask about what a specific reviewer has scored certain wines - regardless of what the actual write up is.

On another note, surprised not to see any mention of the recent RMP scores for SB County - but then again, that goes to show how less 'impactful' these scores are to most on this board specifically.

Cheers.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#13 Post by Julian Marshall » September 16th, 2019, 9:01 am

All reviewers' scores are now listed as 'RP' as Barry says, instead of the individual reviewer's initials in the past - at least, they were until I stopped subscribing a few months ago. It's a weird system, even if the logic is clear - I can't see how hanging onto the past can be a recipe for future success.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#14 Post by RichardFlack » September 16th, 2019, 9:08 am

Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
Yeah there’s actually two problems. General grade inflation with people like Suckling leading the charge, coupled with internet search. I find it especially egregious when you get an offer and every wine has score or note from different reviewer.

The silver lining of the Internet is that we can easily go to our favourite reviewer(s) for their evaluation.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#15 Post by Chris Seiber » September 16th, 2019, 9:46 am

As long as the Wilfred Wong scores still come from Wilfred himself, I have no concerns about any of this.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#16 Post by Joe Chanley » September 16th, 2019, 10:12 am

larry schaffer wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 9:00 am
Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
Ian,

Good points - and I would have to think that 'RMP' scores are still 'important' to Zachys and others. Yep, 'scores' certainly have been diluted based on how many different folks are out there reviewing wines, but I believe there still is a certain 'cache' with RMP scores for certain categories.

There are still more folks than any of us want to think about that buy based on ratings - whether RMP, WS, Vinous, JD, Wine Enthusiast. Let's not fool ourselves that this isn't the case. And even here on this board, we oftentimes see folks ask about what a specific reviewer has scored certain wines - regardless of what the actual write up is.

On another note, surprised not to see any mention of the recent RMP scores for SB County - but then again, that goes to show how less 'impactful' these scores are to most on this board specifically.

Cheers.
It's pretty unbelievable. I just saw the 2017 Felsina CC, which is a nice wine and something i drink often, got a 95 or 96 from james suckling. I know he's the king of elevated scores but even that one got a chuckle from me.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#17 Post by Gabe Berk » September 16th, 2019, 1:03 pm

Akin to Kosta Browne. There is nothing Kosta and nothing Browne there anymore...

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#18 Post by Chris Seiber » September 16th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Gabe Berk wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:03 pm
Akin to Kosta Browne. There is nothing Kosta and nothing Browne there anymore...
That's true for a lot of wines, though, right? How many wines are named after people who have passed away, retired, sold the winery, etc.?

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#19 Post by Jay Miller » September 16th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Joe Chanley wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 10:12 am


It's pretty unbelievable. I just saw the 2017 Felsina CC, which is a nice wine and something i drink often, got a 95 or 96 from james suckling. I know he's the king of elevated scores but even that one got a chuckle from me.
He must not have liked it very much [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#20 Post by Gabe Berk » September 16th, 2019, 1:40 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:08 pm
Gabe Berk wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:03 pm
Akin to Kosta Browne. There is nothing Kosta and nothing Browne there anymore...
That's true for a lot of wines, though, right? How many wines are named after people who have passed away, retired, sold the winery, etc.?
Very true...

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#21 Post by c fu » September 16th, 2019, 1:51 pm

I don't see the problem, the company bought the name and they'll use the name.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#22 Post by Neal.Mollen » September 16th, 2019, 2:09 pm

c fu wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:51 pm
I don't see the problem, the company bought the name and they'll use the name.
I agree if they are simply referring to the pub as Robert Parker's Wine Advocate. If, as suggested above, they are claiming that Parker actually reviewed the wines when he didn't, that is something else altogether. Like, fraud.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#23 Post by William Gladstone » September 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm

Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
why don't you write directly to Wine Advocate?
They are very proactive in responding to comments and you might get a direct answer.

why do you have ZACHY'S below your name?

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#24 Post by Paul Jaouen » September 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:27 pm
Joe Chanley wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 10:12 am


It's pretty unbelievable. I just saw the 2017 Felsina CC, which is a nice wine and something i drink often, got a 95 or 96 from james suckling. I know he's the king of elevated scores but even that one got a chuckle from me.
He must not have liked it very much [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#25 Post by Steve L Gellman » September 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm

For those of us old enough to remember it was always “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson” no matter who the guest host was

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#26 Post by GregT » September 16th, 2019, 2:57 pm

The WA doesn't control what retailers do. It's long been practice for retailers to bill the scores as Robert Parker's, even after he hired multiple reviewers and stopped reviewing many of the wines. Be glad that they at least reference the Wine Advocate because many of them simply use the Parker name.

As to whether it still has any cachet, I suppose to people who remember when he reviewed Bordeaux, the Rhone, and CA it does. But those people also know that he's not reviewing any more.

Still, any score from anyone can help if you're sending out email or using shelf talkers. Most people don't know one critic from another and couldn't care less. They just want some independent validation that a wine is at least OK.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#27 Post by Neal.Mollen » September 16th, 2019, 2:58 pm

William Gladstone wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
why don't you write directly to Wine Advocate?
They are very proactive in responding to comments and you might get a direct answer.
Wow! Things must have changed dramatically.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#28 Post by Scott Brunson » September 16th, 2019, 5:50 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:58 pm
William Gladstone wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
why don't you write directly to Wine Advocate?
They are very proactive in responding to comments and you might get a direct answer.
Wow! Things must have changed dramatically.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#29 Post by larry schaffer » September 16th, 2019, 5:51 pm

William Gladstone wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
why don't you write directly to Wine Advocate?
They are very proactive in responding to comments and you might get a direct answer.

why do you have ZACHY'S below your name?
Because he works for Zachys . . .
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#30 Post by Barry P » September 17th, 2019, 7:47 am

Steve L Gellman wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
For those of us old enough to remember it was always “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson” no matter who the guest host was
Yeah, but that's not the right analogy. Question is, once Johnny left the show, whether his name should still have been on it. In other words, should it have been "Jay Leno's The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson" or "The Tonight Show starring Jay Leno." NBC sensibly chose the latter and continued the same with O'Brien (albeit briefly) and Fallon.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#31 Post by John Morris » September 17th, 2019, 7:51 am

Steve L Gellman wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
For those of us old enough to remember it was always “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson” no matter who the guest host was
What about Jack Parr?

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#32 Post by Monica Larner » September 17th, 2019, 9:20 am

Hey guys, to clarify, the company I work for is called Robert Parker Wine Advocate (four words, no apostrophe). Bob happily and deservedly retired a few months back, but continues as a supportive mentor to me and the others.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#33 Post by MBerto » September 17th, 2019, 9:40 am

Henry Ford is dead but they didn't change the name of the company. Ditto Walt Disney. Seems to have worked out OK.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#34 Post by Barry P » September 17th, 2019, 10:07 am

Monica Larner wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 9:20 am
Hey guys, to clarify, the company I work for is called Robert Parker Wine Advocate (four words, no apostrophe). Bob happily and deservedly retired a few months back, but continues as a supportive mentor to me and the others.
Thanks Monica. Please don't take this at all as snarky...totally not intended to be...but I think we knew that. My question more was about whether it wouldn't be more appropriate and possibly less misleading, notwithstanding that people by and sell "names" and "names in brands" all the time, to just call it "The Wine Advocate" or, if the group wants to reflect ownership, then "Michellin's The Wine Advocate." But having Bob's name in there I think gives a fair number of less tuned in folks the notion he's still reviewing wines. Also, you may want to ask the powers that be to remove from Bob's bio the statement (which is probably just a simple oversight) that he is, in fact, reviewing Bordeaux and California.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#35 Post by Barry P » September 17th, 2019, 10:12 am

MBerto wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 9:40 am
Henry Ford is dead but they didn't change the name of the company. Ditto Walt Disney. Seems to have worked out OK.
I've been thinking about this. I think you are right, and there are loads of examples, but I'm just wondering whether there is any difference between a company that manufactures things and TWA, where Bob, largely in his individual capacity, personally provided a service. That's where I'm getting hung up. I keep coming back to the Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson example as the more valid one.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#36 Post by Ian S » September 17th, 2019, 11:30 am

Wine Advocate featuring Monica Larner

Has a ring to it, no?
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#37 Post by Alan Rath » September 17th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Barry P wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 10:12 am
MBerto wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 9:40 am
Henry Ford is dead but they didn't change the name of the company. Ditto Walt Disney. Seems to have worked out OK.
I've been thinking about this. I think you are right, and there are loads of examples, but I'm just wondering whether there is any difference between a company that manufactures things and TWA, where Bob, largely in his individual capacity, personally provided a service. That's where I'm getting hung up. I keep coming back to the Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson example as the more valid one.
Yep. Once Johnny was gone, so was his name. No one thought Henry Ford was actually designing and assembling the cars himself, and he wasn't doing car reviews either. So retaining the "Ford" name isn't at all confusing. Retaining the Robert Parker name is definitely confusing, particularly if they don't make it very clear who writes each current review.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#38 Post by GregT » September 17th, 2019, 3:07 pm

MBerto wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 9:40 am
Henry Ford is dead but they didn't change the name of the company. Ditto Walt Disney. Seems to have worked out OK.
Different story. "The Ford Motor Company" was the name of it and there are still a couple of Fords involved. "The Walt Disney Company" was the name of that company.

"The Wine Advocate" was Robert Parker's publication. Because his name was better known, it was often called Robert Parker's Wine Advocate. I suppose one might call another company "Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook" but in that case, the company name is better known than the founder's.

If the name has been changed to the "Robert Parker Wine Advocate" as Monica says, that's an interesting move and pretty short-sighted IMO, as his influence will continue to decline and the future of the publication is the new writers like Monica. But it doesn't really bode well if they're still using the name of the guy who no longer writes for it. For a lot of new drinkers, he's history.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#39 Post by Ken V » September 17th, 2019, 5:21 pm

I'm just glad we can have this open discussion here on Todd French's Wine Berserkers.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#40 Post by Cris Whetstone » September 17th, 2019, 5:56 pm

As Alan alludes to many of the comparisons given in this thread don't work at all. Ford or Disney created products. The companies they founded continue to create products.

The Wine Advocate was a place where Robert Parker reviewed wines. You can argue his opinion was his product but that's kind of the point. It is no longer a place that produces the opinions of Robert Parker. Therefore having the output of the current writers being presented as the work of 'RP' is misleading at best because they are opining about products of others. They are not making a product that should be assigned a brand name.

Retailers still selling this way are doing their clientele a disservice of course. It's not a huge thing but definitely not cool.

The other thing is that it discounts the work of the current writers. They should be given some credit and more importantly some introduction to current buyers. For better or worse.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#41 Post by Philip G » September 17th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:56 pm
As Alan alludes to many of the comparisons given in this thread don't work at all. Ford or Disney created products. The companies they founded continue to create products.

The Wine Advocate was a place where Robert Parker reviewed wines. You can argue his opinion was his product but that's kind of the point. It is no longer a place that produces the opinions of Robert Parker. Therefore having the output of the current writers being presented as the work of 'RP' is misleading at best because they are opining about products of others. They are not making a product that should be assigned a brand name.

Retailers still selling this way are doing their clientele a disservice of course. It's not a huge thing but definitely not cool.

The other thing is that it discounts the work of the current writers. They should be given some credit and more importantly some introduction to current buyers. For better or worse.
Every review on robertparker.com has the reviewer's name, it's been that way for years. The front page of the website lists authors' names 21 times and only mentions Robert Parker without website title "Robert Parker Wine Advocate" once, for his bio. To suggest that the writers aren't getting credit for their work is not correct. No one's being misled here except people pretending to be. Robert Parker is the most famous name in wine who doesn't make wine. He's a brand and it makes good business sense for somebody to make commercial use of that brand. If people don't like that or don't like the reviewers or the reviews, they can exercise their right to not pay for the service.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#42 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » September 17th, 2019, 7:03 pm

Philip G wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 6:28 pm
Cris Whetstone wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:56 pm
As Alan alludes to many of the comparisons given in this thread don't work at all. Ford or Disney created products. The companies they founded continue to create products.

The Wine Advocate was a place where Robert Parker reviewed wines. You can argue his opinion was his product but that's kind of the point. It is no longer a place that produces the opinions of Robert Parker. Therefore having the output of the current writers being presented as the work of 'RP' is misleading at best because they are opining about products of others. They are not making a product that should be assigned a brand name.

Retailers still selling this way are doing their clientele a disservice of course. It's not a huge thing but definitely not cool.

The other thing is that it discounts the work of the current writers. They should be given some credit and more importantly some introduction to current buyers. For better or worse.
Every review on robertparker.com has the reviewer's name, it's been that way for years. The front page of the website lists authors' names 21 times and only mentions Robert Parker without website title "Robert Parker Wine Advocate" once, for his bio. To suggest that the writers aren't getting credit for their work is not correct. No one's being misled here except people pretending to be. Robert Parker is the most famous name in wine who doesn't make wine. He's a brand and it makes good business sense for somebody to make commercial use of that brand. If people don't like that or don't like the reviewers or the reviews, they can exercise their right to not pay for the service.
The original post was about retailers presenting current scores as being from RP himself. That’s on the retailer and buyer beware would seem obvious.

I think it’s a bit much to ask the WA to police the use of their scores in advertising.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#43 Post by GregT » September 17th, 2019, 7:30 pm

Exactly.

And as Chris pointed out, its use by the WA itself does a disservice to the current writers.

As to this:
Robert Parker is the most famous name in wine who doesn't make wine. He's a brand and it makes good business sense for somebody to make commercial use of that brand.
Maybe.

That was the case in years past. But ask wine drinkers in their 20s who Robert Parker is and likely as not they won't know. Even during his heyday many casual wine drinkers had no idea who he was. It's a brand of decreasing value as his participation is increasingly in the past, and for the people with whom his name does resonate, using it is counter-productive.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#44 Post by Al Osterheld » September 17th, 2019, 7:38 pm

The people who subscribe to the publication understand that he's not writing all the notes (unless they're illiterate). As far as the people who rely on shelf talkers, I think that's its own reward but I also doubt the majority of them care, they just want some guidance and I doubt they've done any careful analysis about sources.

So, we seem to be left with a subset of the people who understand but claim to be worried about protecting the interests of a proposed great silent majority of consumers who likely would not think they need protection.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#45 Post by John Morris » September 17th, 2019, 9:28 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 7:38 pm
As far as the people who rely on shelf talkers, I think that's its own reward but I also doubt the majority of them care, they just want some guidance and I doubt they've done any careful analysis about sources.
That's a good point. How many people who rely on a point score on a shelf distinguish between WA, WS and WE, or WA RP and WA LBP?
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#46 Post by Alan Rath » September 17th, 2019, 11:43 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 7:38 pm
So, we seem to be left with a subset of the people who understand but claim to be worried about protecting the interests of a proposed great silent majority of consumers who likely would not think they need protection.
That’s an interesting perspective. I guess we could extend it to any number of areas where knowing actual facts is unimportant to forming an opinion or making a choice.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#47 Post by GregT » September 18th, 2019, 12:01 am

Absolutely.

Al is totally on point.

Hell, I'm planning to vote next year and I sure as hell don't want my decision misguided by facts!

Or points.
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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#48 Post by Robert M yers » September 18th, 2019, 12:57 am

Didn’t the reviews used to show the initials of the reviewer after the text, especially when it was Parker. I seem to remember seeing RP after reviews or when they weren’t done by Parker himself it was just WA? Now it seems like from the OP that they want the best of both worlds RPWA?

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#49 Post by Jürgen Steinke » September 18th, 2019, 1:35 am

This is business as usual. Build a brand, make it significant and sell it for good money.

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Re: "Robert Parker" Wine Advocate

#50 Post by Ian Dorin » September 18th, 2019, 5:13 am

William Gladstone wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Ian Dorin wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 8:49 am
I hope that someone from TWA will jump in on this. I know they come on here from time to time, so would be good to get their perspective.

Tangent- Was having a similar discussion with someone in the industry on Saturday about ratings, and how diluted the market is. We joked that 96 is the new 90 since basically any wine on the planet you can easily find some type of 90 point rating from someone to stick on any bottle of wine. It's a shame really, as I feel like there are some really good wine critics today, and they are all basically shouting in the same snowstorm.
why don't you write directly to Wine Advocate?
They are very proactive in responding to comments and you might get a direct answer.

why do you have ZACHY'S below your name?
I was just hoping to get any willing feedback in this thread as I think their contributions to it would be met with furthering the conversation, that's all. Not looking for any direct answer, I was just really enjoying the insight here, and since I know they come on here, I thought it was worth mentioning.

I started with Zachys in January of this year.
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