Metayage

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Mich@el Ch@ng
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Metayage

#1 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 12th, 2019, 8:52 am

Is 13 Chezeaux Chambolle charmes and 13 ponsot Chambolle charmes exactly the same wine? How does the process work from barrel to bottle?

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alan weinberg
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Re: Metayage

#2 Post by alan weinberg » September 12th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Don’t know that particular wine but Ponsot does a number of wines métayage from Chezeaux. All same. Labels slapped on at last minute. Be careful w Griotte—some is Leclerc and some Ponsot.

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Re: Metayage

#3 Post by ybarselah » September 12th, 2019, 1:36 pm

chambolle charmes is indeed ponsot. as for griotte, leclerc and ponsot are clearly on the labels, so easy to tell...more....

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Re: Metayage

#4 Post by AAgrawal » September 12th, 2019, 3:40 pm

Out of curiosity, why does he do this?
A s h i s h A g r a w a l

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John Morris
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Re: Metayage

#5 Post by John Morris » September 12th, 2019, 3:56 pm

He being Ponsot or Chezeaux? It's share-cropping, basically. Chezeaux owns the vineyard and Ponsot makes the wine and gives half to Chezeaux. Makes sense economically on both sides. It's common. Hell, my grandmother did that with the farmer who farmed her land in Ohio!
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Re: Metayage

#6 Post by ybarselah » September 12th, 2019, 6:14 pm

AAgrawal wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 3:40 pm
Out of curiosity, why does he do this?
you must be asking about the new Tron-inspired labels.....?

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Re: Metayage

#7 Post by josh bryer » September 12th, 2019, 6:43 pm

ybarselah wrote:
September 12th, 2019, 6:14 pm

you must be asking about the new Tron-inspired labels.....?

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Re: Metayage

#8 Post by Gerhard P. » September 13th, 2019, 5:47 am

Metayage means the owner owns the vineyard, another wine-maker cares for the vines, harvests, maybe makes the wine ... and delivers half of the crop to the owner ... either in grapes, in must, in wine in barrels or in bottles.
In the case of Domaine des Chezeaux they own the Chambolle Charmes vineyard, Domaine (!) Ponsot does the work and delivers half of the bottles to Chezeaux (I don´t know if with or without labels, and if they bill them for the bottles and corks or not).
On the recent labels is clearly stated "Vinifié, elevé and mis en bouteille par Domaine Ponsot". In addition on the bottom of the bottles there is an engraving "Domaine Ponsot".
Different with the Griottes-Chambertin, there is one part worked by Ponsot, another part bei René Leclerc, but also this is stated on the labels.

Decades ago it was more difficult: it wasn´t clearly shown on the label who made the wine ...

I´m not sure that the Laurent Ponsot-bottles shown have anything to do with Chezeaux ... afaic the metayage is with Domaine Ponsot - and Laurent Ponsot seperated from the domaine some time ago ... so this might be a different contract ... and the yields from different vines.
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Re: Metayage

#9 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 13th, 2019, 6:07 am

Do the chezeaux bottles use plastic corks?

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Re: Metayage

#10 Post by Gerhard P. » September 13th, 2019, 6:20 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
September 13th, 2019, 6:07 am
Do the chezeaux bottles use plastic corks?
Yes, the reason why I rarely buy them ... only for tastings.
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Re: Metayage

#11 Post by Dennis Borczon » September 13th, 2019, 12:27 pm

Anyone ever get an explanation why Ponsot is bottling wine that can age for decades with a plastic Cork? Come on they must be smarter than that. I can appreciate Diam or even a well tried screwcap with a good liner, but plastic, PLASTIC?

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Re: Metayage

#12 Post by Gerhard P. » September 13th, 2019, 2:28 pm

Dennis Borczon wrote:
September 13th, 2019, 12:27 pm
Anyone ever get an explanation why Ponsot is bottling wine that can age for decades with a plastic Cork? Come on they must be smarter than that. I can appreciate Diam or even a well tried screwcap with a good liner, but plastic, PLASTIC?
Yes ...
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Re: Metayage

#13 Post by William Woodruff » September 14th, 2019, 6:21 pm

we represent a producer, in burgundy who has been using this closure for 16 years. From village to Grand Cru they have performed very very well.

High-density polymers have a very very long life.

unrelatedly, high-density polymers will last in the environment for hundreds of years.

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Re: Metayage

#14 Post by John Morris » September 14th, 2019, 8:20 pm

Dennis Borczon wrote:
September 13th, 2019, 12:27 pm
Anyone ever get an explanation why Ponsot is bottling wine that can age for decades with a plastic Cork? Come on they must be smarter than that. I can appreciate Diam or even a well tried screwcap with a good liner, but plastic, PLASTIC?
He ran long-term experiments first, as I recall. It's synthetic, but not the plastic closures that were so shortlived.
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Re: Metayage

#15 Post by Todd Hamina » September 15th, 2019, 9:30 am

It appears to be well thought out: http://www.ardeaseal.com/gb/tecnologia-garanzia.html
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Re: Metayage

#16 Post by Gerhard P. » September 15th, 2019, 10:08 am

John Morris wrote:
September 14th, 2019, 8:20 pm
Dennis Borczon wrote:
September 13th, 2019, 12:27 pm
Anyone ever get an explanation why Ponsot is bottling wine that can age for decades with a plastic Cork? Come on they must be smarter than that. I can appreciate Diam or even a well tried screwcap with a good liner, but plastic, PLASTIC?
He ran long-term experiments first, as I recall. It's synthetic, but not the plastic closures that were so shortlived.
I've tasted several vintages since 2008 ... couldn't get over the rather shrill acidity overshadowing the fruit.
Maybe....
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Re: Metayage

#17 Post by alan weinberg » September 15th, 2019, 10:35 am

Todd Hamina wrote:
September 15th, 2019, 9:30 am
It appears to be well thought out: http://www.ardeaseal.com/gb/tecnologia-garanzia.html
hopefully better thought out than the temp dot that failed completely. The closure made me stop buying Ponsot. Prices didn’t help either.

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Re: Metayage

#18 Post by Todd Hamina » September 15th, 2019, 11:14 am

Hopefully.
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