Tasting in Burgundy/Rhone

Wife and I are in the beginning stages of planning our next European adventure and I’m trying to work the idea of a couple days in Lyon into the trip. For some reason I feel like tastings in the N Rhone and Burgundy just work slightly differently than other regions that we’ve gone (Tuscany, Bordeaux, Oregon), and I’m hoping people with some experience might be able to give me some guidance as to the best way to plan some tastings in these regions, if there are producers that are impossible to get tastings with, what to expect, etc.

Thanks for any advice! also, if this should be in travel I’m cool with that

We spent two days with Bourgogne Gold Tour (out of Beaune) this past spring, and I can’t recommend them highly enough. We had a hard time getting in with many of the smaller producers (vs the bigger, more commercial places), hence the reason we did the private tour. BGT takes all of the legwork out of it. They have a number of different tour packages, most focusing on grand cru and premier cru producers. It isn’t cheap, but the tastings, food recommendations, education, etc made it all worth it. We tasted with 2 larger producers, but the rest of them during the two days were small operations, tasting with the wine makers themselves, which was really enjoyable.

can you mention which producers your did, and what were some of the other options you didn’t take perhaps? would love to know more about it…

Matt,

when you were in Tuscany did you do smaller producers or more of the bigger ones? If you did some small producers, Burgundy won’t be too different. Basically you are going into someone’s home, but many producers are also more than happy to have you. I would write down a list of producers (within general reason) that are at the top of you want list and just email them. Let them know how much you enjoy your wines and you will be pleasantly surprised at how accommodating they can be. Be sure to give more than a month’s head time.

I would also talk with any stores where you are a regular. They should hopefully be able to help you with any distributors/importers and good things may happen that way too.

I would also be curious to know which domaines you were at during your tour!

In Tuscany we were on a tour, but most of the producers were smaller family producers. I did love the tour company but I think I lucked out with the places that we got to go because I got to help decide… so I havent decided yet if thats the route I wanna go or if I just wanna try to pick some of my own!

When you say “within general reason” do you mean, don’t pick too many, or don’t pick DRC? If the 2nd one, I think that is part of what I was wondering. I’m assuming a DRC is not an option, but I don’t know where exactly the line between “realistic” vs “not realistic” might be. is it Leroy? Hudelot-Noellat? Dujac? should I shoot lower? higher??

Sorry for being vague, but yea it’s kinda like DRC+Leroy+Rousseau+liger-Belair.

But, you can actually get into a lot of top places with enough massaging. It’s been a few years since I’ve been, but you should be able to get into a bunch of places.

Some advice:

  • avoid trying to contact producers during the vacation and harvest: so wait until mid-October to start requesting appointments
  • if you speak some French, take the time to write in French
  • don’t plan too many tastings a day: professionally, I sometimes do as many as five or six in a day, but one in the morning and another in the afternoon is ample for pleasure and facilitates both interesting exchanges and punctuality
  • bear in mind distances even within regions: it can take 40-50 minutes to get from, say, Meursault to Gevrey-Chambertin, and it is easy to be late
  • choose producers whose wines you know and like, and take the time to explain your experiences with the wines in your message: most domaines receive lots of requests and if they sense that you are a passionate client rather than someone who has just heard of their reputation, your chances will improve
  • obviously, a lesser-known producer in e.g. Santenay will be easier to get a tasting at that a famous one in Vosne-Romanée, and there are plenty of estates doing terrific work that might be prepared to spend a couple of hours with you—and which might well be more interesting than some of the impossible-to-visit places. Feel free to PM me for more specific examples.

And, of course, Northern Rhône will be a lot easier than the Côte de Nuits, that’s for sure.

This gives contact information for growers and merchants and tells who speaks English. Don’t expect to see DRC listed here.

If you make an appointment somewhere, don’t be late.

and to the small domaines bring a little gift, coffee, cheese, a bottle of a US wine, whatever.

That’s a neat piece of advice Alan, I’ll have to do so on our next visit.

I just visited Meursault for a few days in July. I found it significantly more challenging to make appointments in the Cotes de nuits than in Bordeaux, Champagne, and certainly the US. You will not have any success at all these days with the highest tiers (DRC, Rousseau, Coche); you will also have incredible difficulty with even 2nd or 3rd tiers without an industry contact. I speak a little French and inquired directly via email or website, through my hotel concierge, and through a guide.

I could not get into Bernard Moreau, Girardin, Roulot, PYCM, Lamy, Faiveley, Meo Camuzet, and a few others.

I found Chablis far easier and had no problem at William Fevre, Billaud Simon, etc. Admittedly, I started about 6 weeks out and probably should have done so earlier. William’s advice above is sound and I don’t mean to be a grey cloud, just personally ran into a lot of closed doors on our trip. Our hotel offered to arrange visits with any of several small producers in Meursault but I hadn’t heard of them before and was going for something more recognizable.

So what we did instead was great for our first trip: took a guided tour in a Jeep along the mountainside that overlooks all the vineyards in the CdN. The guide coravined glasses for my wife and I from a grand cru and premier cru vineyard as we gazed down over them. There were 5 stops, good producers and vineyards represented, and clean stems at each. The company is called Sensation Vins and while not cheap (little in Burgundy is), I thought it an exceptional overview to establish context for where these wines come from. Astonishing how close they all are as well. We plan to do the Corton tour of whites on our next trip. Feel free to PM if I can be helpful

FE87B334-DEA0-4546-8F86-76E6F53A87EE.jpeg
View of Vosne Romanee from our vantage point. Tasted at that stop:
Vosne Romanée 1er cru Les Petits Monts 2014 Domaine Forey Père et Fils
Clos Vougeot Grand Cru 2016 Domaine Forey Père et Fils
Echezeaux Grand Cru 2014 Domaine Lamarche

Matt,

We just did this trip in May - our first in Burgundy and Northern Rhône. If it wasn’t for some of the folks (i.e., Howard Cooper, Charlie Fu, HowaredNZ, etc.) on this board I doubt it would have been as nice as we experienced.

Depending on when you are going, we started emailing about two months prior to our visit and all in French (Google Translate works great). We were fortunate the other couple traveling with us spoke French so for those without emails we called. We did a mix of small and large producers to get a feel for the uniqueness of each. If this is your first visit to Burgundy, I would highly recommend a visit to Joseph Drouhin and Bouchard both in Beaune. The tours alone are worth it. As Keith mentioned earlier, one of places we visited in Northern Rhône, Domaine Xavier Gerard, we tasted and ate lunch in his parent’s basement, met his father and mother who also made coffee for us. Fantastic experience.

I agree with William - two visits is optimal split by a very nice and long lunch. That said, we did have two days where we did three but they were very close to each other and helped with travel times by also planning a lunch in between the visits so we didn’t backtrack. As Alan mentioned above, we brought a small gift as a “thank you” for allowing us to taste with them…since we live in Georgia we brought a small bag of really good Pecans. I think you live in South Carolina? Maybe a small bag of grits or heirloom rice? Don’t forget to make your restaurant reservations in advance, too!

Lastly, if you have any industry contacts I would also recommend reaching out to them as well. Three of our visits came about this way for us.

Please let me know if I can answer any questions you may have…

Gus

John, Which Girardin? Vincent or Pierre?

If you know people with relationships to specific domaines (at any “level”) and feel comfortable having them help you set appointments, you are more likely to (1) get in and (2) get a special experience.

Vincent in Meursault

Personally, I would check out Pierre (son)…just released his first vintage and a ton of great press and vibe on him right now…have a case and half of his wines due in next month.

We let BGT put together the entire itinerary. All we asked was to taste primarily at places that produced some Grand Cru and Premier Cru wines. The lineup they put together over the two days was fantastic, and a great introduction to the region (while we were familiar with Burgundy wine, this was our first trip there). Forgive any inaccuracies, but here are the wines I have notes on that we tasted. About 45 or so over the two days:

Chateau De Charodon: Tasted with Louis Vallet at home cellar
Meursault, 2016
Puligny-Montrachet, 2017
Meursault 1er Cru, Les Perrieres, 2016
Gevrey-Chambertin, Les Creots, 2016
Charmes-Chambertin Grand Cru, 2016
Chambertin Grand Cru, Clos de Beze, 2015
Chambertin Grand Cru, Clos de Beze, 2011

VinoBoam: Tasted with Geremy Gateau in their storage facility surrounded by producer barrels
Domaine Long-Depaquit, Chablis La Moutonne Grand Cru, 2015
Vincent Girardin, Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru, Clos des Caillerets, 2012
Domaine Albert Grivault, Meursault 1er Cru, Perrieres, 2014
Roche de Bellene, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru, Chabiots, 2016
Domain de Bellene, Nuits-Saint-Georges, Vieilles Vignes, 2013
Domain de Bellene, Nuits-Saint-Georges 1er Cru, Chaignots, 2014
Roche de Bellene, Griottes-Chambertin Grand Cru, 2013
Roche de Bellene, Chambertin Grand Cru, 2007

Jean-Claude Boisset: Obviously a more commercial place, but private tasting in their cellar
Beaune 1er Cru, Les Pertuisots, 2015
Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru, Sous Le Puits, 2016
Meursault 1er Cru, Les Charmes, 2015
Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru, Les Charmes, 2015
Nuits-Saint-Georges 1er Cru, Les Perrieres, 2015
Clos de la Roche Grand Cru, 2016
Mazoyeres-Chambertin Grand Cru, 2008
Bonnes Mares Grand Cru, 1994

Joseph Barbier: Tasted with Joseph in his home cellar
Hautes Cotes de Beaune, 2017
Meursault 1er Cru, Les Perrieres, 2014
Vougeot 1er Cru, Le Clos Blanc de Vougeot, 2015
Vougeot, Les Petits Vougeot, 2016
Chambolle-Musigny, Le Clos de L’orme, 2014
Clos de Vougeot Grand Cru, 2016

Domaine Chevigny Rousseau: Tasted in his home cellar
Meursault, 2017
Nuits-Saint-Georges, 2015
Gevrey-Chambertin, 2014
Vosne-Romanee, Les Champs de Perdrix, 2017
Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru, Les Combottes, 2017
Vosne-Romanee 1er Cru, Les Petits Monts, 2014
Echezeaux Grand Cru, 2012
Grand Echezeaux Grand Cru, 2014

Chateau de Meursault: Commercial operation, but private tasting and tour
Volnay 1er Cru, Clos des Chenes, 2015
Pommard 1er Cru, Clos des Epenots, 2015
Corton Grand Cru, 2013
Meursault-Perrieres 1er Cru, 2015
Meursault 1er Cru, Les Charmes Dessus, 2015
Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru, Champ Canet, 2015
Corton-Vergennes Grand Cru, 2013

these are both great pieces of advice. I always wondered if overseas winemakers would appreciate gifts of (our) domestic wines.

this sounds like it was a really great way to make lemonade out of some unfortunate lemons. if you have the name of that tour, do you mind posting or messaging it to me? would be a great experience to keep in my back pocket just in case.

glad to hear the recc for going to Drouhin… I kind of was wanting to especially with the wide range of wines they make (quite a few of which I really like) but wasn’t sure if it would end up tourist-trappy like Banfi or something. Xavier Gerard was also on my radar for a Northern Rhone trip.

Will do, nice rec

The Drouhin and Bouchard tours also take you below the city of Beaune…which we thought was very cool. When done with the tour/tasting you can purchase wine from their store.

Xavier is about to move into his new facility near the river so you will not have to trek up to his parent’s home.

I can PM you pictures from the tour or post here just let me know.

Good luck and ping me with any additional questions!

Gus