wine cooler ruined all my wine?

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GregT
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#101 Post by GregT » September 9th, 2019, 1:31 pm

The trials described above involved placement of wines a distance of 35 cm from two 40 watt fluorescent lamps. Illuminance decreases proportionally with the square of the distance from the light source, and as wine is likely to be stored considerably further from light sources in most winery storage and retail display situations, the amount of light incident on bottled wine will be significantly less than in the trials described by Dozon and Noble.
Bingo.

That's also what Dozon said. If you want to read his study, it's in the American Journal of Enology and Viticulture January 1989 volume 40
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#102 Post by Jason T » September 10th, 2019, 12:29 am

I find it interesting that Chuck hasn’t commented on the one point folks keep coming back to - is he drinking the wines at too cold a temperature? That’s the simplest and most likely answer, as posited by a number of folks. Would be helpful to get his thoughts.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#103 Post by John Morris » September 10th, 2019, 7:40 am

Jason T wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 12:29 am
I find it interesting that Chuck hasn’t commented on the one point folks keep coming back to - is he drinking the wines at too cold a temperature? That’s the simplest and most likely answer, as posited by a number of folks. Would be helpful to get his thoughts.
Good question, but he said they taste of alcohol and VA, and alcohol generally does not stand out at cellar temperatures, and most aromas are muted, though I think strong VA would show through even at 55 (or possibly 45 in the case of this cooler).
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#104 Post by K John Joseph » September 10th, 2019, 9:47 am

John Morris wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 7:39 am
Everytime I see the subject heading of this thread, I think: Bartle and Jaymes?

Image
Whenever I hear Bartles and Jaymes I think of this:


References at 1:10.

By the way, I think these three Lonely Island songs for SNL (Dick in a box, mother lover, three way) are the funniest things they've put out in two decades. Justin Timberlake is sensational.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#105 Post by K John Joseph » September 10th, 2019, 9:48 am

John Morris wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:40 am
Jason T wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 12:29 am
I find it interesting that Chuck hasn’t commented on the one point folks keep coming back to - is he drinking the wines at too cold a temperature? That’s the simplest and most likely answer, as posited by a number of folks. Would be helpful to get his thoughts.
Good question, but he said they taste of alcohol and VA, and alcohol generally does not stand out at cellar temperatures, and most aromas are muted, though I think strong VA would show through even at 55 (or possibly 45 in the case of this cooler).
My thought on this when I was reading it is that if you're popping reds at 47 degrees, they're going to taste like cheap box wine. Let them get to room temp, then try them the next day and see if you're still getting bad flavors.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#106 Post by DanielP » September 10th, 2019, 9:55 am

Chuck Miller wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 10:25 pm

After all, wine is not affected by wind chill.
Not trying to be pedantic, but everything that is warmer than air will be affected by "wind chill". In other words, the wine that's in front of the blower will cool fairly quickly since there's high air flow + lower temperature. So it could be conceivable that the liquid is actually fluctating in temperature. That being said, I agree with the general point of your post.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#107 Post by larry schaffer » September 10th, 2019, 10:15 am

John Morris wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:40 am
Jason T wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 12:29 am
I find it interesting that Chuck hasn’t commented on the one point folks keep coming back to - is he drinking the wines at too cold a temperature? That’s the simplest and most likely answer, as posited by a number of folks. Would be helpful to get his thoughts.
Good question, but he said they taste of alcohol and VA, and alcohol generally does not stand out at cellar temperatures, and most aromas are muted, though I think strong VA would show through even at 55 (or possibly 45 in the case of this cooler).
+1

VA and alcohol burn will be more noticeable at room temperature than cold. Colder wines will be less aromatic and 'easier to drink' - which is why those folks that tend to be bitter averse tend to drink all their wines cold, whether they are white or red.

Hope the OP comes back with more info/insight.

Cheers.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#108 Post by Markus S » September 10th, 2019, 11:11 am

DanielP wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 9:55 am
Chuck Miller wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 10:25 pm

After all, wine is not affected by wind chill.
Not trying to be pedantic, but everything that is warmer than air will be affected by "wind chill". In other words, the wine that's in front of the blower will cool fairly quickly since there's high air flow + lower temperature. So it could be conceivable that the liquid is actually fluctating in temperature. That being said, I agree with the general point of your post.
Actually no. Wind chill only affects living things like animals and humans, things that have flesh that can feel temperature.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#109 Post by DanielP » September 10th, 2019, 11:16 am

Markus S wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:11 am
DanielP wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 9:55 am
Chuck Miller wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 10:25 pm

After all, wine is not affected by wind chill.
Not trying to be pedantic, but everything that is warmer than air will be affected by "wind chill". In other words, the wine that's in front of the blower will cool fairly quickly since there's high air flow + lower temperature. So it could be conceivable that the liquid is actually fluctating in temperature. That being said, I agree with the general point of your post.
Actually no. Wind chill only affects living things like animals and humans, things that have flesh that can feel temperature.
I used in quotes for that reason. It's basically just a correction to account for the increased heat loss from convective forces (wind). Wind Chill as it's used in weather reports simply gives you a temperature adjustment based on the wind speed, ambient temperature, and average human body temperature. Just replace human body temperature with wine temperature and you'll get your "wind chill" for wine.

Unless of course, you're a wind chill expert and would like to further educate me?
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#110 Post by Chuck Miller » September 10th, 2019, 12:08 pm

DanielP wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:16 am
Markus S wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:11 am
DanielP wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 9:55 am


Not trying to be pedantic, but everything that is warmer than air will be affected by "wind chill". In other words, the wine that's in front of the blower will cool fairly quickly since there's high air flow + lower temperature. So it could be conceivable that the liquid is actually fluctating in temperature. That being said, I agree with the general point of your post.
Actually no. Wind chill only affects living things like animals and humans, things that have flesh that can feel temperature.
I used in quotes for that reason. It's basically just a correction to account for the increased heat loss from convective forces (wind). Wind Chill as it's used in weather reports simply gives you a temperature adjustment based on the wind speed, ambient temperature, and average human body temperature. Just replace human body temperature with wine temperature and you'll get your "wind chill" for wine.

Unless of course, you're a wind chill expert and would like to further educate me?
You are correct that the contents would heat and cool more quickly to the temp of the ambient air due to convective heating or cooling. However, wind chill is the perception that the air is cooler than it actually is, due to the convective air flow. My point was that if the air is blowing out of an evaporator at 48º, that is as cool as the bottle is going to get (it may get their more quickly), and 48º is not going to damage your wine. A human standing in front of the same evaporator might perceive the temperature to be maybe 40º depending on the speed of the air.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#111 Post by dougwilder » September 10th, 2019, 12:56 pm

David Baum wrote:
September 6th, 2019, 11:52 pm
You forgot the pinata
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#112 Post by dougwilder » September 10th, 2019, 1:06 pm

There are some wines (usually the backup sample of something I have already reviewed) that sit on the floor of my office for months that experience wide fluctuation in temps and when I open them, the corks look fine and I can't see much difference in my impression. Over analysis usually creates more questions than it answers.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#113 Post by Mel Knox » September 11th, 2019, 8:04 am

When I sold bottles, the French government made us use more and more cullet--broken recycled glass-- so the dead leaf tint got darker. We said this was done in order to protect the customer from light struck wines. Usually this is more of a problem for beer people. Think Miller's in clear bottles. It can happen with wines, esp Sauvignon Blanc in clear bottles ..of course in most fridges the light goes off when you close the door.

Did the humidity get checked?? A dry environment can lead to the cork drying out and that is no good.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#114 Post by P Intag » September 29th, 2019, 8:09 pm

I'm surprised that there is no mention of vibration on this thread. If the cooler has excessive vibration when the compressor is on, that might affect all of the bottles in the cooler. I don't have any experience with this, but the topic of vibration does come up here on WB from time to time.

BTW, has the OP tried the test bottle of Alpha Omega yet?
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#115 Post by Jason T » September 30th, 2019, 12:39 am

P Intag wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 8:09 pm
I'm surprised that there is no mention of vibration on this thread. If the cooler has excessive vibration when the compressor is on, that might affect all of the bottles in the cooler. I don't have any experience with this, but the topic of vibration does come up here on WB from time to time.

BTW, has the OP tried the test bottle of Alpha Omega yet?
What impact would you expect the vibration to have, beyond disturbing sediment?
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#116 Post by P Intag » October 1st, 2019, 12:51 pm

Jason T wrote:
September 30th, 2019, 12:39 am
P Intag wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 8:09 pm
I'm surprised that there is no mention of vibration on this thread. If the cooler has excessive vibration when the compressor is on, that might affect all of the bottles in the cooler. I don't have any experience with this, but the topic of vibration does come up here on WB from time to time.

BTW, has the OP tried the test bottle of Alpha Omega yet?
What impact would you expect the vibration to have, beyond disturbing sediment?
I don't really have personal experience with it, but it is a topic that is brought up from time to time on message boards and elsewhere.

Here is what Decanter magazine has to say about it:
"Vibration can disturb sediment present in the bottle, but it also causes complex chemical reactions which are less visible. Vibration (and the resulting increased kinetic energy in the bottle) leads to a decrease in tartaric and succinic acids, causing a reduction in esters, which dulls flavours."
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#117 Post by James Kennedy » October 1st, 2019, 1:00 pm

David Glasser wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Anton D wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 12:30 pm
David Glasser wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 12:21 pm
I was "struck" by those statements too, Anton. An hour under store lights results in stinky sulfur, cabbage and TCA-like wet cardboard aromas? Maybe an unwrapped bottle of Cristal sitting inches from a big fluorescent bulb...
I wonder if we can start to sell "wine swaddling" so people can get their wine home or safely to an "out of cellar" tasting.

On the plus side, now I know why the wine list at "Opaque" in L.A. seems to have such awesome wines.

https://darkdining.com/santa-monica/
More profit in selling used, burnt out light bulbs as "wine safe." And very energy efficient!

I believe light damage is a thing, and wouldn’t buy from a place with bottles sitting under fluorescent lights or in direct sunlight. Just having a bit of fun at the expense of the exaggerated risk implied by the way the Jancis article is written.
This is why I only cellar and consume ace of spades and mer soleil unoaked Chardonnay. Can never be too careful about light damage.

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#118 Post by Alan Rath » October 1st, 2019, 3:51 pm

P Intag wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 12:51 pm
Here is what Decanter magazine has to say about it:
"Vibration can disturb sediment present in the bottle, but it also causes complex chemical reactions which are less visible. Vibration (and the resulting increased kinetic energy in the bottle) leads to a decrease in tartaric and succinic acids, causing a reduction in esters, which dulls flavours."
I'd love to see some actual research that says this, because it seems extremely unlikely to be true.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#119 Post by David Glasser » October 2nd, 2019, 12:19 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 3:51 pm
P Intag wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 12:51 pm
Here is what Decanter magazine has to say about it:
"Vibration can disturb sediment present in the bottle, but it also causes complex chemical reactions which are less visible. Vibration (and the resulting increased kinetic energy in the bottle) leads to a decrease in tartaric and succinic acids, causing a reduction in esters, which dulls flavours."
I'd love to see some actual research that says this, because it seems extremely unlikely to be true.
I agree Alan. I suspect they're just passing along received wisdom without evidence to back it up. Hard to imagine that vibration from a cooling system would impart enough energy to drive chemical reactions. But I don't have any evidence either.

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#120 Post by Alan Rath » October 2nd, 2019, 12:31 pm

Here's a thread with some evidence - to the contrary:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142665
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#121 Post by John Glas » October 2nd, 2019, 2:37 pm

[quoteBy the way, I think these three Lonely Island songs for SNL (Dick in a box, mother lover, three way) are the funniest things they've put out in two decades. Justin Timberlake is sensational.][/quote] Word Up! Agree. champagne.gif

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#122 Post by Al Osterheld » October 3rd, 2019, 6:50 am

The average velocity of the molecules in wine at room temperature is around 500 meters per second. The vibration has a negligible impact on the average kinetic energy, you'd affect it more with a tiny increase in the temperature. Oh, and if the vibration was increasing the kinetic energy of the wine molecules, it would manifest itself by an increase in temperature. That explanation is plain silly.

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#123 Post by Chuck J o r d a n » December 14th, 2019, 9:41 pm

Jason T wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 12:29 am
I find it interesting that Chuck hasn’t commented on the one point folks keep coming back to - is he drinking the wines at too cold a temperature? That’s the simplest and most likely answer, as posited by a number of folks. Would be helpful to get his thoughts.
That was it! I am sorry for not responding. It was figured out, then life kept us busy and I haven't been on many forums lately. Honestly, embarrassment probably played a part in it, too. lol!

I took a couple of weeks to experiment between freshly purchased wine and the wine coming out of the cooler. You and others were correct. We were pulling them out of the cooler, pulling the cork, and drinking them relatively soon thereafter. They were noticeably different than the wine from the store.

Long story longer, I started pulling the bottles from the wine fridge and setting them on the counter for about an hour before we were going to open them. That solved our problem. Everything was back to normal. The good news is that we only threw away a few hundred $$ of wine. Could've been much worse. AAaannd, I am glad I didn't open any of the good stuff - as I was tempted to do, but the wife talked me out of it.

Thank you (and many others) for your help!

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#124 Post by YLee » December 14th, 2019, 10:06 pm

How cold is your cooler? I have never had this experience drinking wines straight out of a cooler.
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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#125 Post by David Glasser » December 15th, 2019, 4:52 am

YLee wrote:
December 14th, 2019, 10:06 pm
How cold is your cooler? I have never had this experience drinking wines straight out of a cooler.
OP says 47.8-59 degrees. I’ve had many reds that don’t show well right out of the cellar at 55-57.

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Re: wine cooler ruined all my wine?

#126 Post by Kirk.Grant » December 15th, 2019, 8:54 am

While this is happening really fast, it does remind me that there was a time where I had a perfectly stored bottle of Bergstrom from 2006 that smelled like the tropicana coconut tanning oil...so much we were all laughing rather than crying. I too wonder about how the wines taste if you put one in the fridge and just leave another on the counter. I would certainly be bringing in a bottle or 3 to the local wine store to get some other local perspectives on this.
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