Esther Mobley tells you how to look like a total newb

Esther offers these (intended to be helpful) tips for visiting during harvest. A better title might have been “Ask These Questions To Annoy The Crap Out Of Everyone Within Earshot.”

[rofl.gif]

That’s almost as good as her piece about how to help the plumber fix things at your house.

And nowhere near as good as her review of best ways of stopping to offer road crews helpful construction hints.

Sign hanging in an auto repair shop years ago-
Labor-$15.00 per hour
If you watch-$20.00
If you help-$25.00

I just want to be in the tasting room when some greenhorn looks at their phone and reads off, “Do you make your rosé by direct press, or saignee?” while mispronouncing “saignee.”

A local body shop has something like this -

We offer any two of the following:
Done fast
Done right
Done cheap

Wow, the snark comes fast and easy around here!

The Press is a website intended to help the general population visiting wine country learn how to get the most out of their visit. I guess that’s really not a good idea, though, since who needs to educate people about wine when you can just condescend to them? I mean, everyone knows the right questions to ask at a winery during harvest time (anyone have better ones?), and everyone knows how to pronounce saignee (oh wait, the article actually indicates the correct pronunciation). And, you’re completely right, why should you learn the right questions to ask a plumber or a mechanic, since they would never rip off an unknowledgeable consumer.

I get that some of the questions can seem basic, but everyone has to start somewhere - and the general public can do a lot worse than this article.

I think winery staff would rather be asked genuine questions that come from curiosity as opposed to crap recited off a list for the purposes of ingratiating oneself. But perhaps I’m old fashioned

I guess that we just disagree about whether this article is “crap recited off a list.” I happen to think that questions about the vintage, picking decisions, and fermentation processes are within the realm of reasonable questions when visiting a winery at harvest.

But, yeah, it’s a lot more fun to mock new wine consumers, who aren’t trying to read and learn but are instead “ingratiating oneself.” Either you know exactly the language to use when visiting a winery, or you deserve to be mocked as a “total newb.” When it comes to the wine world, I fear that condescension is truly the most old fashioned of exercises…

That’s some fine virtue signaling.

The Snarkiness Level is high on these boards, for sure. I used to love coming to this website, but now I pop in to see upcoming offer tips, see if there’s any new producers to put on the radar, and that’s about it. An ever increasing % of this board think their shit doesn’t stink, maybe because they can pronounce Montalcino or Grenache correctly. News flash- it does. If I could only be in a room, drinking a glass of wine with them, I would call them out right on the spot. Would love to see their reaction. But I can’t, so in its place, the next best option…

Yeah, I guess it’s alwright if you think of it that way.

I see nothing wrong with the questions in the right context. The questions should come from genuine interest, though, and should be coupled with the ability to understand the answer.
If you can’t already taste the difference between saignee and direct press, or whole cluster and de-stemmed, it is better to wait until you have the opportunity to try the two together.

Esther Mobley tells you how to look like a total

douche> !!!

Fixed.

It’s not snark, it’s an objection to idiocy.

Would you offer a list of questions for any other subject? You get to meet the pitcher who won the World Series. You should ask him if he throws the ball a little faster or slower in the post-season games.

You get to meet the doctor who set your aged father’s broken leg. You should ask him if bones are like wood and you can use nails to pound them together.

It’s just a dumb approach.

“Hey! Here’s a list of questions! Do you care about any of these things? No? Well, that’s OK. Wine makers are so stupid they’ll think you’re a really sophisticated wine lover!”

Why not just tell people to ask what they want to know?

Oh yeah. It’s because if people need to be told what to ask, they’ve already failed. Genuine interest has nothing to do with a list of stupid canned questions.

But it’s snarky to point that out.

Thank god I don’t mind being snarky. rolleyes

They probably would. And anyone who came in read the questions straight from their phone probably deserves some scorn.



Exactly. This article isn’t meant for us. It is meant for someone who is learning about wine. Perhaps we forget just how much we know. I know a great deal about wine - more than most anyone else I know ‘IRL’ (and I admit, I don’t hang out with many people that share my passion towards wine) that isn’t ITB (and surprisingly, more than a fair number ITB). That’s not a statement of arrogance - it’s simply a fact. It’s also a fact that the majority of people on this wine board completely smoke me in terms of their wine knowledge.

Ten years ago, I knew nothing about wine. I found it incredibly intimidating. So I did what I do when I’m intimated by something - I went all in and learned everything I could about it. And I admit that despite that, even when I first started visiting wineries in the last couple of years, I found it incredibly intimidating. I worried about every word, worried that I would expose myself as a total newb, worried that I’d ask a completely stupid question. So worried that I actively avoided interacting with winemakers for way too long. Hell, I STILL AM WORRIED.

What a terrible way to feel about what should be a fun thing. And that’s a huge disincentive for people to want to know more about wine.

Esther doesn’t just say ‘hey, go ask these qestions’, she at least provides a few sentences on why those questions are relevant. Maybe that gives someone the confidence to go to a winery, strike up a conversation with a winemaker. Maybe they ask one of the questions she suggests. Maybe her questions spark some thought, and they come up with one of their own questions.

Maybe her questions actually help a couple people enjoy wine more…

We really should get over ourselves.

I’ve never found wine to be intimidating. How can it, when it soothes the spirit and loosens the tongue.
But I have found it to be frustratingly expensive (more so nowadays), that I’ve missed many chances to try some great wines simply because of their price.

Great response to the OP! Just returned from Napa-Sonoma and the best advice I heard a winemaker give to a fellow visitor was if you know what you like then that is all the wine knowledge you really need.
On several visits to different wineries I do not think that the pourers or the hosts would have the slightest clue as to the answers to these questions.

You make a good point, but it lends more credence to the OP’s objection to the article. You need to know enough to understand the question you’re asking.
BTW, who comes to an enthusiast site as a newbie and doesn’t expect snark?

I’d be happy if a visitor asked me any of these questions.

Hmm, I’m not so sure. If you like Big Macs over Michelin star’d food, is that all the food knowledge you need? The truth is that too many people drink crappy (really crappy) wine, and are perfectly happy with it. That is definitely not all the wine knowledge they need.

I suspect most newbies who visit here aren’t expecting the snark they typically get. Which is why there’s a certain barrier to participation. A bit of self-selection: people who can deal with it remain, those who can’t (or don’t want to) don’t. Now, I don’t think we’re nearly as snarky as a decade ago, but there is definitely some.

I ask a couple of those questions all the time. Though I never ask to taste a grape, that’s a complete waste of time, unless you have years of experience with a vineyard. Plus I never ask, I just do it :wink: